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raising children to find faith

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  • taxbill@wncol.net
    Ok one last question/thought and then I have a busy day as do most of us I m sure. I have been for quite some time been thinking how do we raise children to
    Message 1 of 5 , May 17, 2000
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      Ok one last question/thought and then I have a busy day as do most of
      us I'm sure. I have been for quite some time been thinking how do we
      raise children to find faith for themselves. Granted some kids slide
      easily into "the faith of their fathers" and others try to throw off
      anything that looks like it. I was kind of bugged when in my adult
      life I found out that my Mom had been as bored and frustrated as
      I was as a kid with the church that we went to every sunday. Not
      that it was a bad place just boring and repetitive. Now I have 3
      daughters of my own one is 10 and the other two are 7. The 10 year
      old is begining to ask questions and think on a broader scale. For
      example a few weeks ago she said "You know mom it's weird that God
      created everything including the devil so does that mean that God
      created evil?" And I thought ummm can't we just talk about something
      easy and more clear cut like drugs that fairly easy don't do them it
      will mess up your life but this "Is God the creator of evil?" I was
      not prepared for this. I also saw a part of myself in her and
      thought how do I help her begin to think through these issues that
      may come up and as a parent give her the tools she needs as a kid to
      find faith. I guess I should clarify that she has faith in the sense
      that there is a God Jesus is his son He came to earth to die for that
      sins of man and we come to God through Christ. So I guess some of my
      concern for her is keeping faith and growing faith because
      sometimes when the answers to the hard questions are not solid you
      can lose faith. So anyone have any thoughts on Raising kids to find
      and grow their faith?
      Connie
    • briancrcc@aol.com
      Connie -- a good book on the subject is The Fabric of Faithfulness by Steve Garber. But the specific issue you raised (Did God create evil?) really gets my
      Message 2 of 5 , May 17, 2000
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        Connie -- a good book on the subject is "The Fabric of Faithfulness" by Steve
        Garber. But the specific issue you raised (Did God create evil?) really gets
        my attention too ...

        For what it's worth, I think this question arises in a "modern" context ...
        and that as we move to a more "postmodern" context, the issue changes. It
        doesn't go away, but it changes.

        In a modern mechanistic context, where God is in control like a machine
        operator controls a machine, it's hard to imagine anything happening in the
        machine that isn't God's fault, either as designer or as operator.

        In a postmodern context, where the universe is less like a machine controlled
        by an operator and more like a child given life by a parent ... the issue of
        control changes. When you give birth to a child, the whole point is not
        having control ... the whole point is giving your child his or her own life
        to live. You want to guide, help, love, influence, etc., but all of these
        leave the possibility for turning away, going wrong, etc.

        I wonder if we can try to help our kids see God more in this way and less as
        the machine operator? If we could help them with this as kids, I think it
        would save them a lot of trouble when they group up. Does this make any
        sense at all? Just a thought -- Brian
      • taxbill@wncol.net
        Thanks for the book recomendation. I took a look at it s description on the internet and it looks like it could be helpful. As far as God as parent and not
        Message 3 of 5 , May 22, 2000
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          Thanks for the book recomendation. I took a look at it's description
          on the internet and it looks like it could be helpful.

          As far as God as "parent" and not "machine operator" and does it make
          sense? Well, Yes it make sense but to me some problems arise in it.
          Yes my goal is to raise independent children and I try to encourage
          them to think for themselves and make good decisions and accept
          responsibility for those decisions but I have my line where I step in
          and protect. In other words if someone is beating up on my kids as
          much as I want them to learn how to deal with their own hard
          situations at some point I will if it is possible step in and become
          the machine operator. Particularly if what they are experiencing is
          not the result of consequences of bad decision making. When I look
          at an evil situation such as the holocost I think why didn't this god
          parent intervene more quickly. But I suppose who's to argue will all
          knowing, all powerful parenting?
          Also if he is more parent and less machine operator what is that
          saying about God being all powerful because as a parent I am
          certainly not all powerful but I like to have some sense that God is
          in control when bad stuff happens.
          Of course I think that the consequences of evil seems so much bigger
          to us because we are so finite. An evil person blows up a building
          and all we see is lives lost and to us it is so final but to God it
          is only a begining. I don't know I think that right now I'm just
          rambling. Sorry. Did any of that make sense?
          Connie



          In findingfaith@egroups.com, briancrcc@a... wrote:
          > Connie -- a good book on the subject is "The Fabric of
          Faithfulness" by Steve
          > Garber. But the specific issue you raised (Did God create evil?)
          really gets
          > my attention too ...
          >
          > For what it's worth, I think this question arises in a "modern"
          context ...
          > and that as we move to a more "postmodern" context, the issue
          changes. It
          > doesn't go away, but it changes.
          >
          > In a modern mechanistic context, where God is in control like a
          machine
          > operator controls a machine, it's hard to imagine anything
          happening in the
          > machine that isn't God's fault, either as designer or as operator.
          >
          > In a postmodern context, where the universe is less like a machine
          controlled
          > by an operator and more like a child given life by a parent ... the
          issue of
          > control changes. When you give birth to a child, the whole point
          is not
          > having control ... the whole point is giving your child his or her
          own life
          > to live. You want to guide, help, love, influence, etc., but all
          of these
          > leave the possibility for turning away, going wrong, etc.
          >
          > I wonder if we can try to help our kids see God more in this way
          and less as
          > the machine operator? If we could help them with this as kids, I
          think it
          > would save them a lot of trouble when they group up. Does this
          make any
          > sense at all? Just a thought -- Brian
        • briancrcc@aol.com
          In a message dated 5/22/00 8:30:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, taxbill@wncol.net writes:
          Message 4 of 5 , May 22, 2000
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            In a message dated 5/22/00 8:30:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
            taxbill@... writes:

            <<
            As far as God as "parent" and not "machine operator" and does it make
            sense? Well, Yes it make sense but to me some problems arise in it.
            Yes my goal is to raise independent children and I try to encourage
            them to think for themselves and make good decisions and accept
            responsibility for those decisions but I have my line where I step in
            and protect. In other words if someone is beating up on my kids as
            much as I want them to learn how to deal with their own hard
            situations at some point I will if it is possible step in and become
            the machine operator. Particularly if what they are experiencing is
            not the result of consequences of bad decision making. When I look
            at an evil situation such as the holocost I think why didn't this god
            parent intervene more quickly. But I suppose who's to argue will all
            knowing, all powerful parenting?
            Also if he is more parent and less machine operator what is that
            saying about God being all powerful because as a parent I am
            certainly not all powerful but I like to have some sense that God is
            in control when bad stuff happens. >>

            Connie -- good points. The machine operator metaphor has limitations, but so
            does the parental metaphor, as you point out! I feel the same way as you
            when I think about the holocaust and other tragedies. When you ask, "Who's
            to argue," I wonder if God wouldn't actually expect us to voice our
            heartbreak about these situations, and to raise our "why?" to God, not as an
            accusation and maybe not even as a question expecting an answer, but as an
            expression of sympathy with our fellow humans, and an expression of desire
            that the suffering and injustice will end.

            Brian
          • taxbill@wncol.net
            ... limitations, but so ... as you ... ask, Who s ... not as an ... but as an ... desire ... When you talk about voicing our heart break you make a good point
            Message 5 of 5 , Jun 1, 2000
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              > Connie -- good points. The machine operator metaphor has
              limitations, but so
              > does the parental metaphor, as you point out! I feel the same way
              as you
              > when I think about the holocaust and other tragedies. When you
              ask, "Who's
              > to argue," I wonder if God wouldn't actually expect us to voice our
              > heartbreak about these situations, and to raise our "why?" to God,
              not as an
              > accusation and maybe not even as a question expecting an answer,
              but as an
              > expression of sympathy with our fellow humans, and an expression of
              desire
              > that the suffering and injustice will end.
              >
              > Brian

              When you talk about voicing our heart break you make a good point
              until I look at scrtipture and God's response to 2 people who raised
              their why Abraham and Job (Job 39and 39 ish) and (Gen.18:16-33) God
              bargins with Abraham but pretty much says to Job who are you to
              question me? Granted Job comes off as an accuser; who wouldn't have
              under the circumstances? Anyway it is this kind of thing that is
              frustrating to me in the bible. In the past I have definately had a
              knowledge before faith mentality and it has caused problems because
              our actual knowledge is so limited. We are so limited. Any way I am
              coming to a place of faith that is christ centered rather than
              knowledge based and I think that is a good thing but it leaves me
              with this frustrating thing of how do I handle the bible. There are
              those who say that's easy it is the absolute authoratative word of
              God. But for absolute and authoratative it sure does frustrate and
              confuse me with all it's tensions and veiw points. At times I want
              to throw it out because of this. But if my faith is christ centered
              then it must have some value because it is where I find the story of
              christ. Any thoughts on all of this anyone?
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