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Re: [fhctech] Re: Networking printers

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  • Jonathan Studer
    Just wanted to pass along some info about the differences between hubs and switches. I know the terminology is not exactly right, but the priciple is there. I
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 31, 2005
      Just wanted to pass along some info about the
      differences between hubs and switches. I know the
      terminology is not exactly right, but the priciple is
      there.
      I affectionally refer to hubs as 'dumb' devices. The
      way they function is when a computer needs to talk to
      another computer on the network, they send out a
      broadcast across the whole hub saying hello is anyone
      out there with the name computer1 and waits for a
      reply. Then, the other computer yells back and says
      I'm over here. This happens while other computers on
      the network are doing the same thing.

      Switches are 'smarter', each device on the network
      segment 'talks' to the switch using it's MAC address,
      not it's IP address. (This address is 'hard coded'
      into each network card. Every device that communicates
      on a network, in the world, has a different unique MAC
      Address. The switch remembers the MAC Address of each
      network device that is connected to it and what port
      it is plugged into. When a device on the network
      want's to talk to another computer, the computer goes
      to the switch and says, hey do you know where I can
      find computer1? the switch replies, yes, you are
      connected to port 1, computer 1 is connected to port4,
      please communicated with port 4 to talk to this
      computer.
      (there are other things going on in the
      communications, but that's the basic idea.) If the
      device on the network wants to communicate with a
      different network, i.e., typically it has to go to a
      higher level, such as a router. Switches are 'smarter'
      than hubs, i guess you could say, more efficient.

      Personally, recommend anyone with a hub to replace it
      with a switch. They really aren't that expensive, and
      the performance increase is worth it.

      thanks for letting me share my 2 cents.

      have a great day!!!!
      -Jon

      --- Patty Gaddis <geneamom@...> wrote:

      > Just wanted to mention that about a year ago we
      > added enough computers to
      > our system that our firewall/router would not hold
      > them all. We went out
      > and bought a hub to add to the system, but couldn't
      > get things to work
      > correctly. I called Global Support and they
      > suggested switching to a
      > switchbox. Did that the next day and all our
      > problems (at least for that)
      > were solved.
      >
      > If I remember correctly, it was something about all
      > the data being able to
      > be transfered at the same time using a switchbox
      > whereas with a hub it had
      > to "share" the cable it was going through. Things
      > were very slow. One,
      > then another, then another could send stuff. You
      > also have to watch which
      > order they are daisy chained.
      >
      > The firewall has to be the first connection with the
      > modem. Then, the
      > others routers, switchboxes, etc can follow in line.
      > I think that's it. I
      > always have to look at our system to remember.
      >
      > Hope this helps.
      > Patty
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > At 09:05 PM 8/30/2005, you wrote:
      > >--- In fhctech@yahoogroups.com, "Dana Repouille"
      > <drepouille@h...>
      > >wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I talked with the Global Support guys for about
      > an hour, but they
      > >could not
      > > > resolve my problem. The two suggestions they
      > gave me:
      > > > - replace your hubs with switches.
      > > > - call the FH Support Desk, because they know
      > more about print
      > >servers than
      > > > the Global Support Desk. Right.
      > > >
      > > > Dana
      >
      >
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    • Merlin R Kitchen
      On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 00:21:40 -0400 Patty Gaddis ... The PIX, as usually sent out by SLC is programmed for only 10 computers. If you find
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 1, 2005
        On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 00:21:40 -0400 Patty Gaddis <geneamom@...>
        writes:
        > Just wanted to mention that about a year ago we added enough
        > computers to
        > our system that our firewall/router would not hold them all. We
        > went out

        The PIX, as usually sent out by SLC is programmed for only 10 computers.
        If you find that the first 10 computers get on and any additional will
        not, that is the problem. SLC will (if needed) reprogram the PIX for
        more. I had to solve this problem a second time when they shipped us a
        new one (lightning fried our first one).

        Switches or hubs can be cascaded. We have 5 eight port switches, a 4
        port switch, and a wireless access point all plugged into an eight port
        switch which is then connected to the PIX which in turn connects to the
        DSL modem.

        Merlin Kitchen
        Utah South Area Family History Training Center
        http://www.familyhistorytraining.org
      • paulbb1
        The support desk can make the change remotely. They did it to ours. Arlan Beebe Ann Arbor Stake ... computers. ... will ... for ... us a ... a 4 ... port ...
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 1, 2005
          The support desk can make the change remotely. They did it to ours.

          Arlan Beebe
          Ann Arbor Stake
          --- In fhctech@yahoogroups.com, Merlin R Kitchen <mkitchen@j...>
          wrote:
          >
          > On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 00:21:40 -0400 Patty Gaddis <geneamom@c...>
          > writes:
          > > Just wanted to mention that about a year ago we added enough
          > > computers to
          > > our system that our firewall/router would not hold them all. We
          > > went out
          >
          > The PIX, as usually sent out by SLC is programmed for only 10
          computers.
          > If you find that the first 10 computers get on and any additional
          will
          > not, that is the problem. SLC will (if needed) reprogram the PIX
          for
          > more. I had to solve this problem a second time when they shipped
          us a
          > new one (lightning fried our first one).
          >
          > Switches or hubs can be cascaded. We have 5 eight port switches,
          a 4
          > port switch, and a wireless access point all plugged into an eight
          port
          > switch which is then connected to the PIX which in turn connects
          to the
          > DSL modem.
          >
          > Merlin Kitchen
          > Utah South Area Family History Training Center
          > http://www.familyhistorytraining.org
        • Ia Ribbon/ Duncan
          We got a new computer from SL, but now the internet is working so slow that it is impossibe to use both at the same time. Also, why can t we print from the
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 1, 2005
            We got a new computer from SL, but now the internet is working so slow that
            it is impossibe to use both at the same time.
            Also, why can't we print from the disks?
            FD FHC
          • RussellHltn
            Sorry, our ESP is not working too well today. We need more details. How are you connected to the internet? How is the new machine connected to the printer?
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 1, 2005
              Sorry, our ESP is not working too well today. We need more details. How
              are you connected to the internet? How is the new machine connected to the
              printer?


              -----Original Message-----
              From: fhctech@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fhctech@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Ia Ribbon/ Duncan
              Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:24 AM
              To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [fhctech] Networking printers

              We got a new computer from SL, but now the internet is working so slow that

              it is impossibe to use both at the same time.
              Also, why can't we print from the disks?
              FD FHC
            • RussellHltn
              ... Within limits, yes. There is a limit as to how many hubs you can cascade together as they will introduce excessive delay which will lead to errors. I m
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 1, 2005
                Response to multiple messages:


                >>> Switches or hubs can be cascaded. <<<

                Within limits, yes. There is a limit as to how many hubs you can cascade
                together as they will introduce excessive delay which will lead to errors.
                I'm not sure if there is a limit to switches, but one would want to limit
                the number of them between any given computer and the servers.


                >>> The PIX, as usually sent out by SLC is programmed for only 10 computers.
                <<<

                From what I've been told, that's 10 computers that need to access the
                internet. If you've got some other devices such as a dedicated server, or
                print server that pushes you over the 10 limit, that may not be an issue.
                It will issue more then 10 Ips, it just won't let more then 10 connect to
                the internet at the same time.


                >>> Just wanted to pass along some info about the
                differences between hubs and switches. <<<

                One significant difference is that a switch permits a client and server to
                talk in "full duplex" - that is the client can talk to the server to
                acknowledge the packets it's receiving without having to wait for the server
                to stop talking.


                >>> We went out
                and bought a hub to add to the system, but couldn't get things to work
                correctly. I called Global Support and they suggested switching to a
                switchbox. Did that the next day and all our problems (at least for that)
                were solved. <<<

                Most likely a problem somewhere else. A hub wouldn't be that much of an
                issue with only a few machines. I'm guessing it may have been a cross-over
                cable issue. Hub/switches/Pix are designed to connect to computers. A
                hub/switch will talk on one pair of wires and listen for the computer on
                another pair. You can't connect a hub/switch/PIX to another hub/switch
                without a cross-over. Otherwise the "mouth" of one won't be connected to
                the "ear" of the other to be able to communicate. A cross-over can be done
                with a cable, a special cross-over port, or a switchable cross-over port.
                In some cases newer switches will auto sense and go normal/cross-over
                automatically. Just don't do the cross-over more then once (cross-over
                cable AND a cross-over port), or you'll undo the cross and still the
                original problem.


                >>> Personally, recommend anyone with a hub to replace it
                with a switch. They really aren't that expensive, and
                the performance increase is worth it. <<<

                Depends. In most cases the internet is so slow a connection there is
                nothing to be gained by using a switch for internet access. The speed gain
                will only be noticed when connecting to a server - and only when more then
                one person is executing a search at the same time. For most FHCs with less
                then a dozen machines, I'm not sure as it's worth spending limited funds in
                the upgrade. If you're buying equipment, by all means, get at least a
                10/100 switch. But if you're working ok with that old 10Mb hub, don't
                expect to see a dramatic improvement when you change it out. We used to be
                on a old 12 port 10Mb hub but the power supply failed. That's the only
                reason I replaced it.
              • Ia Ribbon/ Duncan
                we have cable internet which is usually fast,,,,,but since we hooked the new printer up which is wireless off the same server we can t get either one to work
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 1, 2005
                  we have cable internet which is usually fast,,,,,but since we hooked the new
                  printer up which is wireless off the same server we can't get either one to
                  work very fast. most of the time we have to go unplug the cable box for 30
                  sec and restart. But lately there is only sporadic internet.
                  we haven't been able to print from the disks, like the ancestry or the ssi ,
                  those disks, since we went to Windows 2000----- Original Message -----
                  From: "RussellHltn" <RussellHltn@...>
                  To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:57 PM
                  Subject: RE: [fhctech] Networking printers


                  > Sorry, our ESP is not working too well today. We need more details. How
                  > are you connected to the internet? How is the new machine connected to
                  > the
                  > printer?
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: fhctech@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fhctech@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  > Of
                  > Ia Ribbon/ Duncan
                  > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:24 AM
                  > To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [fhctech] Networking printers
                  >
                  > We got a new computer from SL, but now the internet is working so slow
                  > that
                  >
                  > it is impossibe to use both at the same time.
                  > Also, why can't we print from the disks?
                  > FD FHC
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
                  > Community email addresses:
                  > Post message: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subscribe: fhctech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                  > Shortcut URL to Yahoo! group page:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fhctech
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • RussellHltn
                  Hard to say exactly what s wrong. But it sounds like this new wireless printer setup may not be playing well with the rest of the system. If you turn off
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 3, 2005
                    Hard to say exactly what's wrong. But it sounds like this new wireless
                    printer setup may not be playing well with the rest of the system. If you
                    turn off the printer (just hang a broken sign on it and power it off) along
                    with the wireless device it's connected to, does everything work ok? If so,
                    then you probably need to check the directions on how to hook it up and
                    check the settings.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: fhctech@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fhctech@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    Ia Ribbon/ Duncan
                    Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 8:46 AM
                    To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [fhctech] Networking printers

                    we have cable internet which is usually fast,,,,,but since we hooked the new

                    printer up which is wireless off the same server we can't get either one to
                    work very fast. most of the time we have to go unplug the cable box for 30
                    sec and restart. But lately there is only sporadic internet.
                    we haven't been able to print from the disks, like the ancestry or the ssi ,

                    those disks, since we went to Windows 2000----- Original Message -----
                    From: "RussellHltn" <RussellHltn@...>
                    To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:57 PM
                    Subject: RE: [fhctech] Networking printers
                  • paulbb1
                    I have the exact same problem at our FHC. All but one machines are using Win2K. No issue when we were using a Linux firewall (IPcop) but with the PIX we have
                    Message 9 of 20 , Sep 5, 2005
                      I have the exact same problem at our FHC. All but one machines are
                      using Win2K. No issue when we were using a Linux firewall (IPcop) but
                      with the PIX we have slow printing. I will verify this by switching
                      back to the Linux box. I don't under stand this. All networking
                      connections are through switches. The current printer is shared via a
                      Win98 SE machine. I have even tried using a second printer attached to
                      a Win2K machine and setup to share the printer to other Win2K
                      machines. Didn't help.

                      I am stumpped. I am concidering putting the printer on a print server
                      device and see if that works.

                      Arlan Beebe
                      Ann Arbor Stake

                      --- In fhctech@yahoogroups.com, "bomber_bob" <bob_lds@m...> wrote:
                      > --- In fhctech@yahoogroups.com, "Dana Repouille" <drepouille@h...>
                      > wrote:
                      > > TWO things happened on August 9th:
                      > >
                      > > - I installed a new Cisco PIX that HQ sent to us to replace the
                      > one that got
                      > > fried.
                      > >
                      > > - I downloaded and installed all available Microsoft updates. I
                      > believe I
                      > > also installed the new Microsoft Update tool touted on the Windows
                      > Critical
                      > > Update page.
                      > >
                      > > That is when network printing slowed to a standstill. It takes
                      > about 5
                      > > minutes just to bring up a Printer Properties dialog box. It takes
                      > about 10
                      > > minutes to print across the network.
                      > >
                      > > I talked with the Global Support guys for about an hour, but they
                      > could not
                      > > resolve my problem. The two suggestions they gave me:
                      > > - replace your hubs with switches.
                      > > - call the FH Support Desk, because they know more about print
                      > servers than
                      > > the Global Support Desk. Right.
                      > >
                      > > We are currently using a Zonet router instead of the PIX, because
                      > our

                      > > patrons like to print stuff in less than 10 minutes. I am hoping
                      > someone at
                      > > the Global Support Desk will realize what is killing all of us in
                      > the field.
                      > >
                      > > BY THE WAY, I have noticed a very similar problem at another FHC
                      > in my
                      > > stake, but it ONLY happens when printing from one Windows 2000
                      > computer to
                      > > another. If the server or the client is Windows 98SE, there is no
                      > problem.
                      > >
                      > > Dana
                      >
                      >
                      > I don't feel so bad now, I thought I was the only one with the
                      > problem. What is this zoneet router, I didn't know we could run
                      > anything other than the PIX (that was church sponsored).
                      > Bob Holder
                    • paulbb1
                      If this is a Church provided wireless system remember it is a locked to the software on the installtion disk and nothing sees the wireless network unless the
                      Message 10 of 20 , Sep 6, 2005
                        If this is a Church provided wireless system remember it is a locked
                        to the software on the installtion disk and nothing sees the wireless
                        network unless the software is installed on the computer. And you
                        can't install the software unless it is a church owned one.

                        Arlan
                        --- In fhctech@yahoogroups.com, "RussellHltn" <RussellHltn@v...>
                        wrote:
                        > Hard to say exactly what's wrong. But it sounds like this new
                        wireless
                        > printer setup may not be playing well with the rest of the
                        system. If you
                        > turn off the printer (just hang a broken sign on it and power it
                        off) along
                        > with the wireless device it's connected to, does everything work
                        ok? If so,
                        > then you probably need to check the directions on how to hook it up
                        and
                        > check the settings.
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: fhctech@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fhctech@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of
                        > Ia Ribbon/ Duncan
                        > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 8:46 AM
                        > To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [fhctech] Networking printers
                        >
                        > we have cable internet which is usually fast,,,,,but since we
                        hooked the new
                        >
                        > printer up which is wireless off the same server we can't get
                        either one to
                        > work very fast. most of the time we have to go unplug the cable
                        box for 30
                        > sec and restart. But lately there is only sporadic internet.
                        > we haven't been able to print from the disks, like the ancestry or
                        the ssi ,
                        >
                        > those disks, since we went to Windows 2000----- Original Message ---
                        --
                        > From: "RussellHltn" <RussellHltn@v...>
                        > To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:57 PM
                        > Subject: RE: [fhctech] Networking printers
                      • paulbb1
                        I found a resolution to the problem after consulting with my team of Stake experts. Used a printer that has a print server installed or an external one. I
                        Message 11 of 20 , Sep 6, 2005
                          I found a resolution to the problem after consulting with my team of
                          Stake experts. Used a printer that has a print server installed or an
                          external one. I installed a HP 5Si with a JetDirect and after
                          installation all the computers print with out issue. You need the "HP
                          Install Network printer wizard" not the web based one. I plan on
                          buying an external print server to hook up to the Lexmark we have.

                          Arlan Beebe
                          Ann Arbor Stake

                          --- In fhctech@yahoogroups.com, "paulbb1" <abeebe@t...> wrote:
                          > I have the exact same problem at our FHC. All but one machines are
                          > using Win2K. No issue when we were using a Linux firewall (IPcop)
                          but
                          > with the PIX we have slow printing. I will verify this by switching
                          > back to the Linux box. I don't under stand this. All networking
                          > connections are through switches. The current printer is shared via
                          a
                          > Win98 SE machine. I have even tried using a second printer attached
                          to
                          > a Win2K machine and setup to share the printer to other Win2K
                          > machines. Didn't help.
                          >
                          > I am stumpped. I am concidering putting the printer on a print
                          server
                          > device and see if that works.
                          >
                          > Arlan Beebe
                          > Ann Arbor Stake
                          >
                          > --- In fhctech@yahoogroups.com, "bomber_bob" <bob_lds@m...> wrote:
                          > > --- In fhctech@yahoogroups.com, "Dana Repouille"
                          <drepouille@h...>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > > TWO things happened on August 9th:
                          > > >
                          > > > - I installed a new Cisco PIX that HQ sent to us to replace the
                          > > one that got
                          > > > fried.
                          > > >
                          > > > - I downloaded and installed all available Microsoft updates. I
                          > > believe I
                          > > > also installed the new Microsoft Update tool touted on the
                          Windows
                          > > Critical
                          > > > Update page.
                          > > >
                          > > > That is when network printing slowed to a standstill. It takes
                          > > about 5
                          > > > minutes just to bring up a Printer Properties dialog box. It
                          takes
                          > > about 10
                          > > > minutes to print across the network.
                          > > >
                          > > > I talked with the Global Support guys for about an hour, but
                          they
                          > > could not
                          > > > resolve my problem. The two suggestions they gave me:
                          > > > - replace your hubs with switches.
                          > > > - call the FH Support Desk, because they know more about print
                          > > servers than
                          > > > the Global Support Desk. Right.
                          > > >
                          > > > We are currently using a Zonet router instead of the PIX,
                          because
                          > > our
                          >
                          > > > patrons like to print stuff in less than 10 minutes. I am
                          hoping
                          > > someone at
                          > > > the Global Support Desk will realize what is killing all of us
                          in
                          > > the field.
                          > > >
                          > > > BY THE WAY, I have noticed a very similar problem at another
                          FHC
                          > > in my
                          > > > stake, but it ONLY happens when printing from one Windows 2000
                          > > computer to
                          > > > another. If the server or the client is Windows 98SE, there is
                          no
                          > > problem.
                          > > >
                          > > > Dana
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > I don't feel so bad now, I thought I was the only one with the
                          > > problem. What is this zoneet router, I didn't know we could run
                          > > anything other than the PIX (that was church sponsored).
                          > > Bob Holder
                        • Dana Repouille
                          The printer is wireless? How? Is the printer shared with the network by a server, or is it wirelessly connected to a wireless router? When you say we can t
                          Message 12 of 20 , Sep 11, 2005
                            The printer is wireless? How?

                            Is the printer shared with the network by a server, or is it wirelessly
                            connected to a wireless router?

                            When you say "we can't get either one to work very fast"
                            ..do you mean either the Internet or the printer?
                            ..do you mean the server or the printer?

                            Do you use a Cisco Pix router?

                            When you cycle the power on "the cable box" do you also cycle the power on
                            your router?

                            What disks are you trying to print from?

                            How long does it take to print a test page?

                            Dana

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: fhctech@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fhctech@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                            Ia Ribbon/ Duncan
                            Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:46 PM
                            To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [fhctech] Networking printers

                            we have cable internet which is usually fast,,,,,but since we hooked the new

                            printer up which is wireless off the same server we can't get either one to
                            work very fast. most of the time we have to go unplug the cable box for 30
                            sec and restart. But lately there is only sporadic internet.
                            we haven't been able to print from the disks, like the ancestry or the ssi ,

                            those disks, since we went to Windows 2000
                          • Donsescape
                            Sometimes you have to capture the printer port and set a virtual connection to LPT1. ... hooked the new ... either one to ... box for 30 ... the ssi , ...
                            Message 13 of 20 , Oct 1 11:02 PM
                              Sometimes you have to capture the printer port and set a virtual
                              connection to LPT1.


                              --- In fhctech@yahoogroups.com, "Ia Ribbon/ Duncan" <g.duncan@m...>
                              wrote:
                              > we have cable internet which is usually fast,,,,,but since we
                              hooked the new
                              > printer up which is wireless off the same server we can't get
                              either one to
                              > work very fast. most of the time we have to go unplug the cable
                              box for 30
                              > sec and restart. But lately there is only sporadic internet.
                              > we haven't been able to print from the disks, like the ancestry or
                              the ssi ,
                              > those disks, since we went to Windows 2000----- Original Message --
                              ---
                              > From: "RussellHltn" <RussellHltn@v...>
                              > To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:57 PM
                              > Subject: RE: [fhctech] Networking printers
                              >
                              >
                              > > Sorry, our ESP is not working too well today. We need more
                              details. How
                              > > are you connected to the internet? How is the new machine
                              connected to
                              > > the
                              > > printer?
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > From: fhctech@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fhctech@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf
                              > > Of
                              > > Ia Ribbon/ Duncan
                              > > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:24 AM
                              > > To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Subject: [fhctech] Networking printers
                              > >
                              > > We got a new computer from SL, but now the internet is working
                              so slow
                              > > that
                              > >
                              > > it is impossibe to use both at the same time.
                              > > Also, why can't we print from the disks?
                              > > FD FHC
                              > >
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                              > >
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