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Frredman's Bank Records

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  • Dave
    Has anyone figured out a way to network this program? It really disappoints me that with all the FHCs that are being networked, software is being put out that
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 8, 2001
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      Has anyone figured out a way to network this program?


      It really disappoints me that with all the FHCs that are being
      networked, software is being put out that does not have a network
      option.
    • Lee
      Dave, We share your disappointment. I ve raised the issue of network application development with FHD managers on several occasions. Their rationale has been
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 8, 2001
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        Dave,

        We share your disappointment. I've raised the issue of network application
        development with FHD managers on several occasions. Their rationale has been
        that the number of networked Centers, estimated to be well under 100, is
        small in comparsion to the total and that the FHD does not support
        networking.

        Lee
        Lodi Stake FHC
        http://home.pacbell.net/lodifhc/

        >
        > It really disappoints me that with all the FHCs that are being
        > networked, software is being put out that does not have a network
        > option.
        >
      • Phil Jeffrey
        My impression is they don t support much of anything, except excuses !! Phil ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 8, 2001
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          My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses !!
          Phil


          >From: "Lee" <prgraph@...>
          >Reply-To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
          >To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
          >Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
          >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:52:26 -0800
          >
          >Dave,
          >
          >We share your disappointment. I've raised the issue of network application
          >development with FHD managers on several occasions. Their rationale has
          >been
          >that the number of networked Centers, estimated to be well under 100, is
          >small in comparsion to the total and that the FHD does not support
          >networking.
          >
          >Lee
          >Lodi Stake FHC
          >http://home.pacbell.net/lodifhc/
          >
          > >
          > > It really disappoints me that with all the FHCs that are being
          > > networked, software is being put out that does not have a network
          > > option.
          > >
          >
          >

          _________________________________________________________________
          Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
        • Peter Yorke
          hear hear ... From: Phil Jeffrey [mailto:phil_jeffrey28@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:08 AM To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [fhctech]
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 8, 2001
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            hear hear
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Phil Jeffrey [mailto:phil_jeffrey28@...]
            Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:08 AM
            To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records

            My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses !!
            Phil


            >From: "Lee" <prgraph@...>
            >Reply-To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
            >To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
            >Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
            >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:52:26 -0800
            >
            >Dave,
            >
            >We share your disappointment. I've raised the issue of network application
            >development with FHD managers on several occasions. Their rationale has
            >been
            >that the number of networked Centers, estimated to be well under 100, is
            >small in comparsion to the total and that the FHD does not support
            >networking.
            >
            >Lee
            >Lodi Stake FHC
            >http://home.pacbell.net/lodifhc/
            >
            > >
            > > It really disappoints me that with all the FHCs that are being
            > > networked, software is being put out that does not have a network
            > > option.
            > >
            >
            >

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          • Michael T. Ritchey
            To put it in perspective... 1. The FCHD is funded by tithe-payer dollars. That s tithe-payers from all over the world. 2. Supporting networks and network
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 8, 2001
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              To put it in perspective...

              1. The FCHD is funded by tithe-payer dollars. That's tithe-payers from all
              over the world.
              2. Supporting networks and network software is expensive enough at church
              headquarters, let alone worldwide.
              2. FHCs in many countries aren't even authorized to have computers. They
              must use fiche.
              3. Only 2.8% of FHCs are networked.
              4. The Freedman's Bank project succeeded in spite of incredible,
              long-lasting opposition from many angles. If church members knew even half
              the stories of the hardships endured, the sacrifices offered freely and
              knowingly by its creators (and one in particular); they'd be ashamed to
              murmur about something so relatively trivial as whether the FCHD was willing
              to support the CD's use on 100 various networks.

              And if murmuring Saints had any foresight, they'd know it's a non-issue
              anyway.

              Michael


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Phil Jeffrey [mailto:phil_jeffrey28@...]
              Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:08 AM
              To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records


              My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses !!
              Phil


              >From: "Lee" <prgraph@...>
              >Reply-To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
              >To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
              >Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
              >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:52:26 -0800
              >
              >Dave,
              >
              >We share your disappointment. I've raised the issue of network application
              >development with FHD managers on several occasions. Their rationale has
              >been
              >that the number of networked Centers, estimated to be well under 100, is
              >small in comparsion to the total and that the FHD does not support
              >networking.
              >
              >Lee
              >Lodi Stake FHC
              >http://home.pacbell.net/lodifhc/
              >
              > >
              > > It really disappoints me that with all the FHCs that are being
              > > networked, software is being put out that does not have a network
              > > option.
              > >
              >
              >

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            • snowden@cleanusa.net
              Right on, Michael!!!! ... From: Michael T. Ritchey To: Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 9:13 PM
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 8, 2001
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                Right on, Michael!!!!
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Michael T. Ritchey" <ritcheym@...>
                To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 9:13 PM
                Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records


                > To put it in perspective...
                >
                > 1. The FCHD is funded by tithe-payer dollars. That's tithe-payers from all
                > over the world.
                > 2. Supporting networks and network software is expensive enough at church
                > headquarters, let alone worldwide.
                > 2. FHCs in many countries aren't even authorized to have computers. They
                > must use fiche.
                > 3. Only 2.8% of FHCs are networked.
                > 4. The Freedman's Bank project succeeded in spite of incredible,
                > long-lasting opposition from many angles. If church members knew even half
                > the stories of the hardships endured, the sacrifices offered freely and
                > knowingly by its creators (and one in particular); they'd be ashamed to
                > murmur about something so relatively trivial as whether the FCHD was
                willing
                > to support the CD's use on 100 various networks.
                >
                > And if murmuring Saints had any foresight, they'd know it's a non-issue
                > anyway.
                >
                > Michael
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Phil Jeffrey [mailto:phil_jeffrey28@...]
                > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:08 AM
                > To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                >
                >
                > My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses !!
                > Phil
                >
                >
                > >From: "Lee" <prgraph@...>
                > >Reply-To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                > >To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                > >Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                > >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:52:26 -0800
                > >
                > >Dave,
                > >
                > >We share your disappointment. I've raised the issue of network
                application
                > >development with FHD managers on several occasions. Their rationale has
                > >been
                > >that the number of networked Centers, estimated to be well under 100, is
                > >small in comparsion to the total and that the FHD does not support
                > >networking.
                > >
                > >Lee
                > >Lodi Stake FHC
                > >http://home.pacbell.net/lodifhc/
                > >
                > > >
                > > > It really disappoints me that with all the FHCs that are being
                > > > networked, software is being put out that does not have a network
                > > > option.
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                >
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              • Herb Lewis
                ... It s always good to look at the overall perspective. This CD will run from the server with no problem. 1. Copy the contents to a directory on the server.
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 9, 2001
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                  "Michael T. Ritchey" wrote:
                  >
                  > To put it in perspective...
                  >
                  It's always good to look at the overall perspective. This CD will
                  run from the server with no problem.

                  1. Copy the contents to a directory on the server.
                  2. Share this directory (read only works fine).
                  3. From the client, map this share to a drive letter.
                  4. Execute setup from this mapped drive.
                  5. The program will run and use the mapped drive for its data.

                  --
                  ======================================================================
                  Herb Lewis Silicon Graphics
                  Networking Engineer 1600 Amphitheatre Pkwy MS-510
                  Strategic Software Organization Mountain View, CA 94043-1351
                  herb@... Tel: 650-933-2177
                  http://www.sgi.com Fax: 650-932-2177
                  ======================================================================
                • Peter Yorke
                  So after having gone so far with it, why not just go that one last step further? 1) That s not germane to the issue. 2) We perforce support our own networks,
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 9, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    So after having gone so far with it, why not just go that one last step further?
                     
                    1) That's not germane to the issue.
                    2) We perforce support our own networks, so that's no argument.
                    2) That's not germane to the issue. That's their own tough luck.
                    3) So those that show initiative and zeal are to be punished?
                    4) Asking for what we want is murmuring? I don't think so.
                     
                    Why is it that our efforts (in spite of SLC opposition) to make the family history process faster, more efficient and more universally available are met with such disdain? You would think we were trying to supplant the church hierarchy or something! All we want, and we are willing to put our everything into it, is to bring this work farther along.
                     
                    This is important work. The difference between taking 30 minutes and 150 CD swaps and taking 2 minutes and no CD swaps to do a batch of Temple Ready qualifications is staggering. Anyone who accepts the lesser alternative when the greater one is available is just impeding the work. Move aside and let the work go forth!
                     
                    Sheesh! We're on your side! Cooperate with us!!!!!
                     
                    Pete Yorke
                    Hayward California Stake
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Michael T. Ritchey [mailto:ritcheym@...]
                    Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 9:13 PM
                    To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records

                    To put it in perspective...

                    1. The FCHD is funded by tithe-payer dollars. That's tithe-payers from all
                    over the world.
                    2. Supporting networks and network software is expensive enough at church
                    headquarters, let alone worldwide.
                    2. FHCs in many countries aren't even authorized to have computers. They
                    must use fiche.
                    3. Only 2.8% of FHCs are networked.
                    4. The Freedman's Bank project succeeded in spite of incredible,
                    long-lasting opposition from many angles. If church members knew even half
                    the stories of the hardships endured, the sacrifices offered freely and
                    knowingly by its creators (and one in particular); they'd be ashamed to
                    murmur about something so relatively trivial as whether the FCHD was willing
                    to support the CD's use on 100 various networks.

                    And if murmuring Saints had any foresight, they'd know it's a non-issue
                    anyway.

                    Michael


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Phil Jeffrey [mailto:phil_jeffrey28@...]
                    Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:08 AM
                    To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records


                    My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses !!
                    Phil


                    >From: "Lee" <prgraph@...>
                    >Reply-To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                    >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:52:26 -0800
                    >
                    >Dave,
                    >
                    >We share your disappointment. I've raised the issue of network application
                    >development with FHD managers on several occasions. Their rationale has
                    >been
                    >that the number of networked Centers, estimated to be well under 100, is
                    >small in comparsion to the total and that the FHD does not support
                    >networking.
                    >
                    >Lee
                    >Lodi Stake FHC
                    >http://home.pacbell.net/lodifhc/
                    >
                    > >
                    > > It really disappoints me that with all the FHCs that are being
                    > > networked, software is being put out that does not have a network
                    > > option.
                    > >
                    >
                    >

                    _________________________________________________________________
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                  • Mike Weaver
                    Peter, I m afraid I have to disagree. 1.) It is germane. The money spent to network one FHC to eliminate CD swapping could be spent to put a computer in a
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 9, 2001
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Peter,
                       
                      I'm afraid I have to disagree.
                       
                      1.)  It is germane.  The money spent to network one FHC to eliminate CD swapping could be spent to put a computer in a FHC to eliminate fiche swapping.  If I'm the one doing the swapping I would much prefer CDs.
                       
                      2a.)  You support your network, great.  But if the FHCs were authorized to network then SLC would be expected to support networks in centers with little or no computer expertise.  It must be a tough enough job to do this for the existing software, let alone adding the complexity of a network.
                       
                      2b.)  That's there own tough luck?  A bit harsh I think.  You don't know why they aren't authorized to have computers.  It may be due to a lack of computer expertise which would put too heavy a burden on the tech support in SLC - which would be burdened even more by having to support networks.  Or, there may not be enough funds to supply the extra computers required.   Regardless of the reason, you don't know enough about it to say that it isn't germane.  Try putting the shoe on the other foot - yourself in an area that didn't have a computerized FHC - and see if you would think it were your own "tough luck".
                       
                      3.)  Punished?  I don't see anyone being punished.  SLC isn't saying we can't network our centers, only that we can't use tithe-payer dollars to do so.  I see this as being similar to sending a missionary into the field.  They are not funded by tithe-payer dollars either, yet they are expected to go.
                       
                      4.)  "My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses !!"  I don't see any request here.  Not even constructive criticism.  This statement was simply out of line, and anyone supporting it is out of line.
                       
                       
                      Peter,  the last thing I want here is a flame war.  You're right, we're on the same side in this, SLC is not the opposition.  There have simply been some guidelines set and we have to be willing to work within those guidelines - which simply means that at this time we are on our own regarding networking FHCs.  I do not doubt that this will change.  I hope soon.  Meanwhile, I'm going to do everything I can, within the guidelines, to improve the efficiency in my local FHC.
                       
                      Mike Weaver
                      Fairbanks, Alaska Stake
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Peter Yorke [mailto:Pete@...]
                      Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 7:41 AM
                      To: 'fhctech@yahoogroups.com'
                      Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records

                      So after having gone so far with it, why not just go that one last step further?
                       
                      1) That's not germane to the issue.
                      2) We perforce support our own networks, so that's no argument.
                      2) That's not germane to the issue. That's their own tough luck.
                      3) So those that show initiative and zeal are to be punished?
                      4) Asking for what we want is murmuring? I don't think so.
                       
                      Why is it that our efforts (in spite of SLC opposition) to make the family history process faster, more efficient and more universally available are met with such disdain? You would think we were trying to supplant the church hierarchy or something! All we want, and we are willing to put our everything into it, is to bring this work farther along.
                       
                      This is important work. The difference between taking 30 minutes and 150 CD swaps and taking 2 minutes and no CD swaps to do a batch of Temple Ready qualifications is staggering. Anyone who accepts the lesser alternative when the greater one is available is just impeding the work. Move aside and let the work go forth!
                       
                      Sheesh! We're on your side! Cooperate with us!!!!!
                       
                      Pete Yorke
                      Hayward California Stake
                       
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Michael T. Ritchey [mailto:ritcheym@...]
                      Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 9:13 PM
                      To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records

                      To put it in perspective...

                      1. The FCHD is funded by tithe-payer dollars. That's tithe-payers from all
                      over the world.
                      2. Supporting networks and network software is expensive enough at church
                      headquarters, let alone worldwide.
                      2. FHCs in many countries aren't even authorized to have computers. They
                      must use fiche.
                      3. Only 2.8% of FHCs are networked.
                      4. The Freedman's Bank project succeeded in spite of incredible,
                      long-lasting opposition from many angles. If church members knew even half
                      the stories of the hardships endured, the sacrifices offered freely and
                      knowingly by its creators (and one in particular); they'd be ashamed to
                      murmur about something so relatively trivial as whether the FCHD was willing
                      to support the CD's use on 100 various networks.

                      And if murmuring Saints had any foresight, they'd know it's a non-issue
                      anyway.

                      Michael


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Phil Jeffrey [mailto:phil_jeffrey28@...]
                      Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:08 AM
                      To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records


                      My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses !!
                      Phil


                      >From: "Lee" <prgraph@...>
                      >Reply-To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                      >Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                      >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:52:26 -0800
                      >
                      >Dave,
                      >
                      >We share your disappointment. I've raised the issue of network application
                      >development with FHD managers on several occasions. Their rationale has
                      >been
                      >that the number of networked Centers, estimated to be well under 100, is
                      >small in comparsion to the total and that the FHD does not support
                      >networking.
                      >
                      >Lee
                      >Lodi Stake FHC
                      >http://home.pacbell.net/lodifhc/
                      >
                      > >
                      > > It really disappoints me that with all the FHCs that are being
                      > > networked, software is being put out that does not have a network
                      > > option.
                      > >
                      >
                      >

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                    • Justin Masters
                      I agree with Pete quite a bit on this one, however, I also understand the other side which is more likely manifest in a couple of different ways: 1) There s a
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 9, 2001
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                        I agree with Pete quite a bit on this one, however, I also understand
                        the other side which is more likely manifest in a couple of different
                        ways:

                        1) There's a lot that can go wrong with a network, we don't/will not
                        have resources to troubleshoot someone else's setup without proper
                        admin rights, something viewable on the screen, and with someone who
                        doesn't know what they're doing, but thought that through good
                        intentions and judicious support from church (hey, we're all in the
                        same boat, right?), they'd get the network up.

                        2) The closing paragraphs, while filled with good intentions, can be
                        used in an unrighteous manner when pushed too far. Who WOULDN'T want
                        to have our FHC's hooked onto the internet to be able to connect up to
                        up-to-the-minute IGI information? It would further the work, cut down
                        on duplicates, make life easier, right? But concerns over hackers,
                        liability when it comes to abusive use of that connection by patrons
                        or strangers (threats, porn, stalking, etc), costs, etc. are all
                        probably front and center in consideration of such a proposal.

                        We have to be somewhat patient (not entirely passive) and assist with
                        finding solutions and making suggestions that can be considered by the
                        leaders.

                        Me? I've beaten my head against the same wall. I'm so thankful for
                        the fhctech list to assist me in technical issues when I can't figure
                        it out. And I'm sure the church is thankful for such a resource to be
                        around as well, so as to cut down the calls to them and provide a good
                        resource to refer others to.

                        Justin


                        Verily, Peter Yorke did write:
                        | So after having gone so far with it, why not just go that one last step
                        | further?
                        |
                        | 1) That's not germane to the issue.
                        | 2) We perforce support our own networks, so that's no argument.
                        | 2) That's not germane to the issue. That's their own tough luck.
                        | 3) So those that show initiative and zeal are to be punished?
                        | 4) Asking for what we want is murmuring? I don't think so.
                        |
                        | Why is it that our efforts (in spite of SLC opposition) to make the family
                        | history process faster, more efficient and more universally available are
                        | met with such disdain? You would think we were trying to supplant the church
                        | hierarchy or something! All we want, and we are willing to put our
                        | everything into it, is to bring this work farther along.
                        |
                        | This is important work. The difference between taking 30 minutes and 150 CD
                        | swaps and taking 2 minutes and no CD swaps to do a batch of Temple Ready
                        | qualifications is staggering. Anyone who accepts the lesser alternative when
                        | the greater one is available is just impeding the work. Move aside and let
                        | the work go forth!
                        |
                        | Sheesh! We're on your side! Cooperate with us!!!!!
                        |
                        | Pete Yorke
                        | Hayward California Stake
                        |
                        |
                        | -----Original Message-----
                        | From: Michael T. Ritchey [mailto:ritcheym@...]
                        | Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 9:13 PM
                        | To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                        | Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                        |
                        |
                        | To put it in perspective...
                        |
                        | 1. The FCHD is funded by tithe-payer dollars. That's tithe-payers from all
                        | over the world.
                        | 2. Supporting networks and network software is expensive enough at church
                        | headquarters, let alone worldwide.
                        | 2. FHCs in many countries aren't even authorized to have computers. They
                        | must use fiche.
                        | 3. Only 2.8% of FHCs are networked.
                        | 4. The Freedman's Bank project succeeded in spite of incredible,
                        | long-lasting opposition from many angles. If church members knew even half
                        | the stories of the hardships endured, the sacrifices offered freely and
                        | knowingly by its creators (and one in particular); they'd be ashamed to
                        | murmur about something so relatively trivial as whether the FCHD was willing
                        | to support the CD's use on 100 various networks.
                        |
                        | And if murmuring Saints had any foresight, they'd know it's a non-issue
                        | anyway.
                        |
                        | Michael
                        |
                        |
                        | -----Original Message-----
                        | From: Phil Jeffrey [mailto:phil_jeffrey28@...]
                        | Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:08 AM
                        | To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                        | Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                        |
                        |
                        | My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses !!
                        | Phil
                        |
                        |
                        | >From: "Lee" <prgraph@...>
                        | >Reply-To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                        | >To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                        | >Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                        | >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:52:26 -0800
                        | >
                        | >Dave,
                        | >
                        | >We share your disappointment. I've raised the issue of network application
                        | >development with FHD managers on several occasions. Their rationale has
                        | >been
                        | >that the number of networked Centers, estimated to be well under 100, is
                        | >small in comparsion to the total and that the FHD does not support
                        | >networking.
                        | >
                        | >Lee
                        | >Lodi Stake FHC
                        | > http://home.pacbell.net/lodifhc/ <http://home.pacbell.net/lodifhc/>
                        | >
                        | > >
                        | > > It really disappoints me that with all the FHCs that are being
                        | > > networked, software is being put out that does not have a network
                        | > > option.
                        | > >
                        | >
                        | >
                        |
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                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Justin Masters (Systems Programmer) PH: 916 356-6735
                        Intel Corp. FM6-17 FAX: 916 377-2288
                        1900 Prairie City Rd, Folsom, CA 95630 jmasters@...
                      • Phil Jeffrey
                        Michael So let me add a little of my own perspective; ... I know this is true for FCHD ( I assume this is FHC Headquarters) and many of the FHC s. But many of
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 9, 2001
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                          Michael
                          So let me add a little of my own perspective;

                          >To put it in perspective...
                          >
                          >1. The FCHD is funded by tithe-payer dollars. That's tithe-payers from all
                          >over the world.

                          I know this is true for FCHD ( I assume this is FHC Headquarters) and many
                          of the FHC's. But many of the FHC's are a lot like ours were a significant
                          amount of money came from non members years ago and on a continual basis.
                          This has allowed us to do networking and other improvements as funds are
                          available. We also have had most of the equipment donated so "no tithing
                          funds were needed". I have had on a number of occasions had non members (as
                          well as members) ask why this or that was not implemented. As I explain the
                          church policy they indicate "well I would be glad to contribute and get it
                          going". Seeing how a majority of those attending FHC's around the world, as
                          I understand it are non members what are we presenting to them ?
                          Now if you want to know of a real waste of tithing funds. Many of us have
                          commented on this before. I have over 25 years of Software Quality
                          experience. I have hundreds of different brands of computers every Microsoft
                          product including XP and a IA-64 bit machine. Networks from modem to 1Gbit.
                          I have volunteered (along with several others that I know of) to test the
                          software. I have filed out the non-disclosure forms multiple times. I have
                          emailed Steve Fox and product development, talked to visiting Head Quarters
                          personnel and only once was asked to test anything and that was just a
                          patch. Just 2 months ago I came across some additional bugs with FS and Win
                          2000 that I wanted to see if it had been checked to make sure it wasn't in
                          the next release. I emailed Steve he passed it on to the development manager
                          and it died. So I suspect it will be in the product. So what will happen, I
                          will call support and they will waste time and money trying to figure out
                          how to get around something that was reported before the product was
                          released. To my knowledge I am the only center that has networked NT
                          workstations to a Win 2K sever which I have reported multiple times. I
                          figured somebody would love to have me test, Nope. Am I alone ? Many of us
                          techies keep in touch and all of us have had similar experiences. If we
                          would just use the vast experience and equipment that many of us have been
                          given at our disposal that in itself could save church funds. It would also
                          help FCHD have a better tested product at less tithing fund expense. I do
                          not believe for a second that anybody that is asking for network support
                          would turn the church down to either test or support a network product. Many
                          have even offered to do the coding free of charge. Yes I know only a certain
                          number of beta test sites are authorized. The interesting thing is those
                          that I know of I asked how did they get on the list and it's always come
                          back to "I know some GA or so and so years ago knew a GA" Some say I don't
                          know but I will ask who the Regional Rep or Area Rep. is and it will be
                          somebody that has pushed in other center's. What about doing a simple thing
                          as asking on this tech support group who could test the products ? Would
                          this not be a way of saving funds ?

                          >2. Supporting networks and network software is expensive enough at church
                          >headquarters, let alone worldwide.

                          As any of the Computer Specialists that work on the networked FHC centers
                          will tell you "What network support". Due to the fact as you state "very few
                          are networked" the support team 99% of the time I call hasn't a clue what to
                          do. They then ask "let us know what you find". I am glad to do this but it
                          never gets passed on, to me that seems a much bigger waste. It's not that
                          they don't want to help they are wonderful people , but don't have the
                          experience. If we did have more networks they would gain more experience and
                          be able to add more support. I have yet to find any of them who don't want
                          to learn. I have had several networking bugs that have carried over into
                          release after release. The end result is we all figure out how to take care
                          of the networks ourselves, thus the reason for this tech group. Often times
                          this is at great expense and time to ourselves.
                          As far as expense goes I wonder about that ! Take our FHC we have 9
                          computers networked. If I receive a set of IGI, AF CD's for each (if they
                          were non networked) how much does that cost. Multiple that times a set every
                          couple years and it adds up. Then add each new product the church adds each
                          year times 9. Now that an 80G hard drive, Nic's and hub is down to around
                          $350.00 ( $250. HD , $14.00 ea NIC, $39 for 8 port hub) seems like the
                          offset is no longer that large. I think what everybody is asking is make it
                          so you can network. If I have to support it fine, but don't make it so I
                          have to buy 9 set's of CD's for each product. Then I think of the SLC FHC
                          and the number of computers they have if they had to have a set of CD's for
                          each how much doe's that cost. My question is if networking is so expensive
                          why is every fortune 500 company doing it to save money ?

                          >2. FHCs in many countries aren't even authorized to have computers. They
                          >must use fiche.

                          Not sure "being authorized" means much. Lots of non-authorized things happen
                          in FHC's. Such things as networks, internet connections, donated computers
                          and equipment. Just because you think they don't have a computer doesn't
                          mean they don't. Example, our center showed on the last inventory that we
                          only had 5 dos based 386 machines. I have updated and called to update the
                          inventory for the last two years and it still doesn't get updated. We have a
                          network, not authorized, we have internet connection (staff only) not
                          authorized. Does headquarters know about these ? I don't think so. Will
                          those that only have fiche stay fiche ? Most likely not with people off
                          loading old computers on a regular basis even in the remotest parts of the
                          world.

                          >3. Only 2.8% of FHCs are networked.

                          How would you know ? If the inventories are not correct and most know
                          networking is not really authorized so they don't report it. How many are
                          there and you don't know it ? With the cost coming down, I suspect many more
                          will be installed either authorized or not. Just this last week I donated 20
                          hubs and network cards to FHC's so they could become networked. Will they
                          call and tell you ? Just watch this tech feed and you will see the number
                          that are coming on line each year. Do you keep track of them ?


                          >4. The Freedman's Bank project succeeded in spite of incredible,
                          >long-lasting opposition from many angles. If church members knew even half
                          >the stories of the hardships endured, the sacrifices offered freely and
                          >knowingly by its creators (and one in particular); they'd be ashamed to
                          >murmur about something so relatively trivial as whether the FCHD was
                          >willing to support the CD's use on 100 various networks.

                          Granted, I am sure there was thousands of hours and incredible effort to get
                          this done. I am sure many people are thankful for each and every person that
                          endured these sacrifices. I have been in many church projects and have seen
                          the lives of many touched by the service of often so few. I suspect what
                          started as an idea, had much opposition and finally ended with a benefit to
                          all. I also suspect networking will be no different, many will push to get
                          it done. Sacrifices will be made and obstacles will be overcome. Yes it's
                          maybe 100 now but what about the future, did anybody think about 5 years
                          from now when 90% are networked and they still have to do this manually
                          because somebody figured years ago it was only a 100 FHC's. Do we not look
                          ahead ? Sure the internet will solve all the problems, but when? Will it
                          eliminate local networks ? I think not. Even at DSL speeds it's still faster
                          locally. Sure it and many products are for home use. But many FHC's can tell
                          you many members can't afford a computer so they visit the FHC. Many a
                          person I have seen at the FHC has problems loading the CD's but if it's
                          online it makes it so much easier for them.

                          >And if murmuring Saints had any foresight, they'd know it's a non-issue
                          >anyway.

                          All things become a non-issue if we look far enough. It's often times
                          because murmuring Saints have a foresight that things do happen. I think of
                          the church welfare program or for that matter the book that came out
                          recently about how Family History came about. It shows many murmured and
                          pushed very hard to see something so wonderful happen. Did that make them
                          wrong ? Murmuring against the gospel, General Authorities or the doctrine of
                          the kingdom those are wrong and will cause nothing but grief. Murmuring
                          against what seems to be a policy based on somebody's feeling or ideas and
                          yes I know they are all approved by the GA's. Does that mean we can't ask
                          why or ask is it time to look at the policy today with what has changed ?
                          Take for example church standards for computers, once it was a 8088 and
                          approved by the GA's now it's a 486 100mhz. Once we couldn't have windows
                          now we can. Many murmured and asked why ? Will things need to be changed ?
                          If it's not defined by Christ or the Prophet should we not ask why ? Should
                          we not all want to help each other make this go forward or make it easier ?
                          Should we all not want to contribute to this effort and help network ?

                          The question I have is how much time would it have really taken to make it
                          network compatible compared to how much time it will cost those 100 and the
                          many that will come on line in the future to get around the problem ?

                          Phil Jeffrey

                          >Michael
                          >
                          >
                          >-----Original Message-----
                          >From: Phil Jeffrey [mailto:phil_jeffrey28@...]
                          >Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:08 AM
                          >To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                          >
                          >
                          >My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses !!
                          >Phil
                          >
                          >
                          > >From: "Lee" <prgraph@...>
                          > >Reply-To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                          > >To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                          > >Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                          > >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:52:26 -0800
                          > >
                          > >Dave,
                          > >
                          > >We share your disappointment. I've raised the issue of network
                          >application
                          > >development with FHD managers on several occasions. Their rationale has
                          > >been
                          > >that the number of networked Centers, estimated to be well under 100, is
                          > >small in comparsion to the total and that the FHD does not support
                          > >networking.
                          > >
                          > >Lee
                          > >Lodi Stake FHC
                          > >http://home.pacbell.net/lodifhc/
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > > > It really disappoints me that with all the FHCs that are being
                          > > > networked, software is being put out that does not have a network
                          > > > option.
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
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                        • Peter Yorke
                          I appreciate your viewpoint. I would like however to digress to an earlier discussion. If the software development process were opened up to the large,
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 9, 2001
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I appreciate your viewpoint.
                             
                            I would like however to digress to an earlier discussion. If the software development process were opened up to the large, worldwide, capable volunteer developer community we would get better, faster, cheaper, more consistent, more useable, more universal software. The whole world would benefit.
                             
                            Instead we hold it close to the vest as though it were a commercial enterprise, then dole it out in small increments that are each and every one different from the previous. We end up getting into this very same discussion with every new morsel.
                             
                            THAT is constructive criticism, and I have a guess as to how many SLC product managers (or whatever they call them there) would be willing to give up their management positions and make something like that happen. (What, job security may be a motivation? It's been known to happen!)
                             
                            How does public-domain software get supported? By public-domain volunteers. FHCTECH is a prime example of how the Family History Department could solve its (perceived) support woes. Of couse the natural vehicle for this would be the internet, but we (the church) are so absolutely terrified that someone might pull up a web page with the word "hell" on it that we would rather shoot ourselves in both feet before doing that. Paranoia is unbecoming disciples of Jesus Christ.
                             
                            I, for one, along with the able assistance of my wife, would be willing to travel most anywhere in northern California/eastern Nevada to help folks out. I'm sure we're not the only ones.
                             
                            SLC should not be the opposition. But try calling them for support. And I'm not talking about networking support.
                             
                             
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Mike Weaver [mailto:mweaver@...]
                            Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 9:31 AM
                            To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records

                            Peter,
                             
                            I'm afraid I have to disagree.
                             
                            1.)  It is germane.  The money spent to network one FHC to eliminate CD swapping could be spent to put a computer in a FHC to eliminate fiche swapping.  If I'm the one doing the swapping I would much prefer CDs.
                             
                            2a.)  You support your network, great.  But if the FHCs were authorized to network then SLC would be expected to support networks in centers with little or no computer expertise.  It must be a tough enough job to do this for the existing software, let alone adding the complexity of a network.
                             
                            2b.)  That's there own tough luck?  A bit harsh I think.  You don't know why they aren't authorized to have computers.  It may be due to a lack of computer expertise which would put too heavy a burden on the tech support in SLC - which would be burdened even more by having to support networks.  Or, there may not be enough funds to supply the extra computers required.   Regardless of the reason, you don't know enough about it to say that it isn't germane.  Try putting the shoe on the other foot - yourself in an area that didn't have a computerized FHC - and see if you would think it were your own "tough luck".
                             
                            3.)  Punished?  I don't see anyone being punished.  SLC isn't saying we can't network our centers, only that we can't use tithe-payer dollars to do so.  I see this as being similar to sending a missionary into the field.  They are not funded by tithe-payer dollars either, yet they are expected to go.
                             
                            4.)  "My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses !!"  I don't see any request here.  Not even constructive criticism.  This statement was simply out of line, and anyone supporting it is out of line.
                             
                             
                            Peter,  the last thing I want here is a flame war.  You're right, we're on the same side in this, SLC is not the opposition.  There have simply been some guidelines set and we have to be willing to work within those guidelines - which simply means that at this time we are on our own regarding networking FHCs.  I do not doubt that this will change.  I hope soon.  Meanwhile, I'm going to do everything I can, within the guidelines, to improve the efficiency in my local FHC.
                             
                            Mike Weaver
                            Fairbanks, Alaska Stake
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Peter Yorke [mailto:Pete@...]
                            Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 7:41 AM
                            To: 'fhctech@yahoogroups.com'
                            Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records

                            So after having gone so far with it, why not just go that one last step further?
                             
                            1) That's not germane to the issue.
                            2) We perforce support our own networks, so that's no argument.
                            2) That's not germane to the issue. That's their own tough luck.
                            3) So those that show initiative and zeal are to be punished?
                            4) Asking for what we want is murmuring? I don't think so.
                             
                            Why is it that our efforts (in spite of SLC opposition) to make the family history process faster, more efficient and more universally available are met with such disdain? You would think we were trying to supplant the church hierarchy or something! All we want, and we are willing to put our everything into it, is to bring this work farther along.
                             
                            This is important work. The difference between taking 30 minutes and 150 CD swaps and taking 2 minutes and no CD swaps to do a batch of Temple Ready qualifications is staggering. Anyone who accepts the lesser alternative when the greater one is available is just impeding the work. Move aside and let the work go forth!
                             
                            Sheesh! We're on your side! Cooperate with us!!!!!
                             
                            Pete Yorke
                            Hayward California Stake
                             
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Michael T. Ritchey [mailto:ritcheym@...]
                            Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 9:13 PM
                            To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records

                            To put it in perspective...

                            1. The FCHD is funded by tithe-payer dollars. That's tithe-payers from all
                            over the world.
                            2. Supporting networks and network software is expensive enough at church
                            headquarters, let alone worldwide.
                            2. FHCs in many countries aren't even authorized to have computers. They
                            must use fiche.
                            3. Only 2.8% of FHCs are networked.
                            4. The Freedman's Bank project succeeded in spite of incredible,
                            long-lasting opposition from many angles. If church members knew even half
                            the stories of the hardships endured, the sacrifices offered freely and
                            knowingly by its creators (and one in particular); they'd be ashamed to
                            murmur about something so relatively trivial as whether the FCHD was willing
                            to support the CD's use on 100 various networks.

                            And if murmuring Saints had any foresight, they'd know it's a non-issue
                            anyway.

                            Michael


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Phil Jeffrey [mailto:phil_jeffrey28@...]
                            Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:08 AM
                            To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records


                            My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses !!
                            Phil


                            >From: "Lee" <prgraph@...>
                            >Reply-To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                            >To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                            >Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                            >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:52:26 -0800
                            >
                            >Dave,
                            >
                            >We share your disappointment. I've raised the issue of network application
                            >development with FHD managers on several occasions. Their rationale has
                            >been
                            >that the number of networked Centers, estimated to be well under 100, is
                            >small in comparsion to the total and that the FHD does not support
                            >networking.
                            >
                            >Lee
                            >Lodi Stake FHC
                            >http://home.pacbell.net/lodifhc/
                            >
                            > >
                            > > It really disappoints me that with all the FHCs that are being
                            > > networked, software is being put out that does not have a network
                            > > option.
                            > >
                            >
                            >

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                          • Peter Yorke
                            And how many hundreds of thousands of man (and woman) hours have been wasted repeating temple ordinances because the IGI/Addenda only come out a couple of
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 9, 2001
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                              And how many hundreds of thousands of man (and woman) hours have been wasted repeating temple ordinances because the IGI/Addenda only come out a couple of times every decade? How do you measure THAT cost?
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Phil Jeffrey [mailto:phil_jeffrey28@...]
                              Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 9:49 AM
                              To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records

                              Michael
                              So let me add a little of my own perspective;

                              >To put it in perspective...
                              >
                              >1. The FCHD is funded by tithe-payer dollars. That's tithe-payers from all
                              >over the world.

                              I know this is true for FCHD ( I assume this is FHC Headquarters) and many
                              of the FHC's. But many of the FHC's are a lot like ours were a significant
                              amount of money came from  non members years ago and on a continual basis.
                              This has allowed us to do networking and other improvements as funds are
                              available. We also have had most of the equipment donated so "no tithing
                              funds were needed". I have had on a number of occasions had non members (as
                              well as members) ask why this or that was not implemented. As I explain the
                              church policy they indicate "well I would be glad to contribute and get it
                              going". Seeing how a majority of those attending FHC's around the world, as
                              I understand it are non members what are we presenting to them ?
                              Now if you want to know of a real waste of tithing funds. Many of us have
                              commented on this before. I have over 25 years of Software Quality
                              experience. I have hundreds of different brands of computers every Microsoft
                              product including XP and a IA-64 bit machine. Networks from modem to 1Gbit.
                              I have volunteered (along with several others that I know of) to test the
                              software. I have filed out the non-disclosure forms multiple times. I have
                              emailed Steve Fox and product development, talked to visiting Head Quarters
                              personnel and only once was asked to test anything and that was just a
                              patch. Just 2 months ago I came across some additional bugs with FS and Win
                              2000 that I wanted to see if it had been checked to make sure it wasn't in
                              the next release. I emailed Steve he passed it on to the development manager
                              and it died. So I suspect it will be in the product. So what will happen, I
                              will call support and they will waste time and money trying to figure out
                              how to get around something that was reported before the product was
                              released. To my knowledge I am the only center that has networked NT
                              workstations to a Win 2K sever which I have reported multiple times. I
                              figured somebody would love to have me test, Nope. Am I alone ? Many of us
                              techies keep in touch and all of us have had similar experiences. If we
                              would just use the vast experience and equipment that many of us have been
                              given at our disposal that in itself could save church funds. It would also
                              help FCHD have a better tested product at less tithing fund expense. I do
                              not believe for a second that anybody that is asking for network support
                              would turn the church down to either test or support a network product. Many
                              have even offered to do the coding free of charge. Yes I know only a certain
                              number of beta test sites are authorized. The interesting thing is those
                              that I know of I asked how did they get on the list and it's always come
                              back to "I know some GA or so and so years ago knew a GA" Some say I don't
                              know but I will ask who the Regional Rep or Area Rep. is and it will be
                              somebody that has pushed in other center's. What about doing a simple thing
                              as asking on this tech support group who could test the products ? Would
                              this not be a way of saving funds ?

                              >2. Supporting networks and network software is expensive enough at church
                              >headquarters, let alone worldwide.

                              As any of the Computer Specialists that work on the networked FHC centers
                              will tell you "What network support". Due to the fact as you state "very few
                              are networked" the support team 99% of the time I call hasn't a clue what to
                              do. They then ask "let us know what you find". I am glad to do this but it
                              never gets passed on, to me that seems a much bigger waste. It's not that
                              they don't want to help they are wonderful people , but don't have the
                              experience. If we did have more networks they would gain more experience and
                              be able to add more support. I have yet to find any of them who don't want
                              to learn. I have had several networking bugs that have carried over into
                              release after release. The end result is we all figure out how to take care
                              of the networks ourselves, thus the reason for this tech group. Often times
                              this is at great expense and time to ourselves.
                              As far as expense goes I wonder about that ! Take our FHC we have 9
                              computers networked. If I receive a set of IGI, AF CD's for each (if they
                              were non networked) how much does that cost. Multiple that times a set every
                              couple years and it adds up. Then add each new product the church adds each
                              year times 9. Now that an 80G hard drive, Nic's and hub is down to around
                              $350.00 ( $250. HD , $14.00 ea NIC, $39 for 8 port hub) seems like the
                              offset is no longer that large. I think what everybody is asking is make it
                              so you can network. If I have to support it fine, but don't make it so I
                              have to buy 9 set's of CD's for each product. Then I think of the SLC FHC
                              and the number of computers they have if they had to have a set of CD's for
                              each how much doe's that cost. My question is if networking is so expensive
                              why is every fortune 500 company doing it to save money ?

                              >2. FHCs in many countries aren't even authorized to have computers. They
                              >must use fiche.

                              Not sure "being authorized" means much. Lots of non-authorized things happen
                              in FHC's. Such things as networks, internet connections, donated computers
                              and equipment. Just because you think they don't have a computer doesn't
                              mean they don't. Example, our center showed on the last inventory that we
                              only had 5 dos based 386 machines. I have updated and called to update the 
                              inventory for the last two years and it still doesn't get updated. We have a
                              network, not authorized, we have internet connection (staff only) not
                              authorized. Does headquarters know about these ? I don't think so. Will
                              those that only have fiche stay fiche ? Most likely not with people off
                              loading old computers on a regular basis even in the remotest parts of the
                              world.

                              >3. Only 2.8% of FHCs are networked.

                              How would you know ? If the inventories are not correct and most know
                              networking is not really authorized so they don't report it. How many are
                              there and you don't know it ? With the cost coming down, I suspect many more
                              will be installed either authorized or not. Just this last week I donated 20
                              hubs and network cards to FHC's so they could become networked. Will they
                              call and tell you ? Just watch this tech feed and you will see the number
                              that are coming on line each year. Do you keep track of them ?


                              >4. The Freedman's Bank project succeeded in spite of incredible,
                              >long-lasting opposition from many angles. If church members knew even half
                              >the stories of the hardships endured, the sacrifices offered freely and
                              >knowingly by its creators (and one in particular); they'd be ashamed to
                              >murmur about something so relatively trivial as whether the FCHD was
                              >willing to support the CD's use on 100 various networks.

                              Granted, I am sure there was thousands of hours and incredible effort to get
                              this done. I am sure many people are thankful for each and every person that
                              endured these sacrifices. I have been in many church projects and have seen
                              the lives of many touched by the service of often so few. I suspect what
                              started as an idea, had much opposition and finally ended with a benefit to
                              all. I also suspect networking will be no different, many will push to get
                              it done. Sacrifices will be made and obstacles will be overcome. Yes it's
                              maybe 100 now but what about the future, did anybody think about 5 years
                              from now when 90% are networked and they still have to do this manually
                              because somebody figured years ago it was only a 100 FHC's. Do we not look
                              ahead ? Sure the internet will solve all the problems, but when? Will it
                              eliminate local networks ? I think not. Even at DSL speeds it's still faster
                              locally. Sure it and many products are for home use. But many FHC's can tell
                              you many members can't afford a computer so they visit the FHC. Many a
                              person I have seen at the FHC has problems loading the CD's but if it's
                              online it makes it so much easier for them.

                              >And if murmuring Saints had any foresight, they'd know it's a non-issue
                              >anyway.

                              All things become a non-issue if we look far enough. It's often times
                              because murmuring Saints have a foresight that things do happen. I think of
                              the church welfare program or for that matter the book that came out
                              recently about how Family History came about. It shows many murmured and
                              pushed very hard to see something so wonderful happen. Did that make them
                              wrong ? Murmuring against the gospel, General Authorities or the doctrine of
                              the kingdom those are wrong and will cause nothing but grief. Murmuring
                              against what seems to be a policy based on somebody's feeling or ideas and
                              yes I know they are all approved by the GA's. Does that mean we can't ask
                              why or ask is it time to look at the policy today with what has changed ?
                              Take for example church standards for computers, once it was a 8088 and
                              approved by the GA's now it's a 486 100mhz. Once we couldn't have windows
                              now we can. Many murmured and asked why ? Will things need to be changed ?
                              If it's not defined by Christ or the Prophet should we not ask why ? Should
                              we not all want to help each other make this go forward or make it easier ?
                              Should we all not want to contribute to this effort and help network ?

                              The question I have is how much time would it have really taken to make it
                              network compatible compared to how much time it will cost those 100 and the
                              many that will come on line in the future to get around the problem ?

                              Phil Jeffrey

                              >Michael
                              >
                              >
                              >-----Original Message-----
                              >From: Phil Jeffrey [mailto:phil_jeffrey28@...]
                              >Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:08 AM
                              >To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                              >
                              >
                              >My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses !!
                              >Phil
                              >
                              >
                              > >From: "Lee" <prgraph@...>
                              > >Reply-To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                              > >To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                              > >Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                              > >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:52:26 -0800
                              > >
                              > >Dave,
                              > >
                              > >We share your disappointment. I've raised the issue of network
                              >application
                              > >development with FHD managers on several occasions. Their rationale has
                              > >been
                              > >that the number of networked Centers, estimated to be well under 100, is
                              > >small in comparsion to the total and that the FHD does not support
                              > >networking.
                              > >
                              > >Lee
                              > >Lodi Stake FHC
                              > >http://home.pacbell.net/lodifhc/
                              > >
                              > > >
                              > > > It really disappoints me that with all the FHCs that are being
                              > > > networked, software is being put out that does not have a network
                              > > > option.
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
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                            • Connie Bradbury
                              Peter: I believe there is a policy that says only certain people are authorized to speak on behalf of the church or stake. So I guess my question to you would
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 9, 2001
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                                Peter:
                                 
                                I believe there is a policy that says only certain people are authorized to speak on behalf of the church or stake.  So I guess my question to you would be, are you authorized by the Stake President of the Hayward California Stake to be speaking on behalf of the Stake?
                                 
                                Please, Peter, this is not intended to be a mean email in anyway.  Originally, I had not noticed you had signed your email and included the stake.  It was because a man from our stake has done so and I was just taken back a little by his responses to your comments.  I did not feel it was proper for him to indicate he was speaking for the entire stake, as I know he is not.
                                 
                                I totally understand your frustrations and I concur with your observations.  I have been the object of several flamings because I dare even remotely suggest I was criticizing the church.  (All I did was mention that it appeared to me data entry into the catalog was not being proofed because of the numerous errors, that appeared to be typos.)
                                 
                                I have worked in the FHC since 1976 and was director for almost 10 years.  My background is business management and only recently retired.  In my profession it was always necessary to be truthful, honest and direct in communicating with others.  However, in my church life, I have to walk on eggs.  I was released as director (I believe) because I dared say in a High Council meeting (to which I was invited to respond to some questions about the FHC) and suggested that they should get their facts straight before they make decisions affecting the FHC - that no one who was in a position to know in the FHC had been approached and I had no idea where they were getting their information. (This was all over the very first computer we got that came in piece by piece and it was reported in HC that the computer was always down and that they needed to make some changes because I didn't know what I was doing.  We hadn't even received the CPU yet!!!)
                                 
                                Peter, I had not intentions of beating up on you with my email.  I've been in your shoes and I have the scars to prove it.
                                 
                                Connie
                              • Peter Yorke
                                Gee, I didn t take your remarks like that at all! I just think it s incredibly valuable to know where a contributor to this forum is hailing from because if
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 9, 2001
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                                  Gee, I didn't take your remarks like that at all! I just think it's incredibly valuable to know where a contributor to this forum is hailing from because if they are from close by I wouldn't hesistate to go meet with them if they wanted to.
                                   
                                  And I would NEVER mistake someone's position as giving him authority to speak for the church at any level. But it's also good information to know if someone is a FHC director vs a Ward Rep vs an FHC technician, etc.
                                   
                                  Your story makes me sad. Having to walk on eggshells is a terrible problem in the church these days. J Golden Kimball would never have stood for it! Good people have been released from their callings and incompetant (and unwilling to learn) put in their place for such weird reasons. I served in a bishopric for many years and I know the process.
                                   
                                  We have two FHCs in this stake and thus two FHC directors. One of them (the second one we put up) never trusted us from the beginning. Any time she wanted to talk to us she dragged in her former bishop who works for IBM and others that she thought (I'm sure) knew better than we did. She got 'advice' from friends in neighboring stakes and then questioned everything we did. It got so the calling wasn't nearly so much fun any more.
                                   
                                  All we wanted to do was help. We loved working in the FHCs. As Stake Missionaries we treasure the FHC as one of our most powerful missionary tools, and making it run it's very best just made our job easier.
                                   
                                  Pete Yorke
                                  Hayward, California
                                   
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Connie Bradbury [mailto:bradbury@...]
                                  Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 10:40 AM
                                  To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records

                                  Peter:
                                   
                                  I believe there is a policy that says only certain people are authorized to speak on behalf of the church or stake.  So I guess my question to you would be, are you authorized by the Stake President of the Hayward California Stake to be speaking on behalf of the Stake?
                                   
                                  Please, Peter, this is not intended to be a mean email in anyway.  Originally, I had not noticed you had signed your email and included the stake.  It was because a man from our stake has done so and I was just taken back a little by his responses to your comments.  I did not feel it was proper for him to indicate he was speaking for the entire stake, as I know he is not.
                                   
                                  I totally understand your frustrations and I concur with your observations.  I have been the object of several flamings because I dare even remotely suggest I was criticizing the church.  (All I did was mention that it appeared to me data entry into the catalog was not being proofed because of the numerous errors, that appeared to be typos.)
                                   
                                  I have worked in the FHC since 1976 and was director for almost 10 years.  My background is business management and only recently retired.  In my profession it was always necessary to be truthful, honest and direct in communicating with others.  However, in my church life, I have to walk on eggs.  I was released as director (I believe) because I dared say in a High Council meeting (to which I was invited to respond to some questions about the FHC) and suggested that they should get their facts straight before they make decisions affecting the FHC - that no one who was in a position to know in the FHC had been approached and I had no idea where they were getting their information. (This was all over the very first computer we got that came in piece by piece and it was reported in HC that the computer was always down and that they needed to make some changes because I didn't know what I was doing.  We hadn't even received the CPU yet!!!)
                                   
                                  Peter, I had not intentions of beating up on you with my email.  I've been in your shoes and I have the scars to prove it.
                                   
                                  Connie


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                                • Mike Weaver
                                  Connie, I think the question of one of us speaking on behalf of our Stake President is a non-issue. Even if it could be said that one of us is doing so, those
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Mar 9, 2001
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                                    Connie,
                                     
                                    I think the question of one of us speaking on behalf of our Stake President is a non-issue.  Even if it could be said that one of us is doing so, those comments carry no weight beyond the boundaries of said stake.  The Stake President's authority extends no further than the boundaries of the Stake over which he presides.
                                     
                                    That said, I will gladly remove the reference to the Stake from my signature.  I don't want anyone to think that I am in any way voicing anything more than my opinion.
                                     
                                    Mike
                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Connie Bradbury [mailto:bradbury@...]
                                    Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 9:40 AM
                                    To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records

                                    Peter:
                                     
                                    I believe there is a policy that says only certain people are authorized to speak on behalf of the church or stake.  So I guess my question to you would be, are you authorized by the Stake President of the Hayward California Stake to be speaking on behalf of the Stake?
                                     
                                    Please, Peter, this is not intended to be a mean email in anyway.  Originally, I had not noticed you had signed your email and included the stake.  It was because a man from our stake has done so and I was just taken back a little by his responses to your comments.  I did not feel it was proper for him to indicate he was speaking for the entire stake, as I know he is not.
                                     
                                    ...snip
                                  • Connie Bradbury
                                    Peter: I m glad. I was afraid you misunderstood. All my story is history and water under the proverbial bridge. We have a great FHC and wonderful leadership
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Mar 9, 2001
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Peter:
                                       
                                      I'm glad.  I was afraid you misunderstood.
                                       
                                      All my story is history and water under the proverbial bridge.
                                       
                                      We have a great FHC and wonderful leadership and staff.  From where we came from we can certainly say "We've come a long way, baby!"
                                       
                                      Communication is so important in every aspect of our lives and I can certainly say, that when the FHC staff has good lines of communication with the Stake Presidency, everything goes much smoother.  There was a short period of time that too much attention was paid to rumor and innuendo without verification.
                                       
                                      I just have to add that our technicians are working very hard to come up with a plan for networking our computers that will meet the approval of the stake (budget-wise).  I can hardly wait until it happens.
                                       
                                      Good luck, Peter, with your endeavors in Hayward.
                                       
                                      Connie
                                    • snowden@cleanusa.net
                                      Right on, Mike!!!!!! ... From: Mike Weaver To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 9:31 AM Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman s Bank Records
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Mar 9, 2001
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Right on, Mike!!!!!!
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 9:31 AM
                                        Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records

                                        Peter,
                                         
                                        I'm afraid I have to disagree.
                                         
                                        1.)  It is germane.  The money spent to network one FHC to eliminate CD swapping could be spent to put a computer in a FHC to eliminate fiche swapping.  If I'm the one doing the swapping I would much prefer CDs.
                                         
                                        2a.)  You support your network, great.  But if the FHCs were authorized to network then SLC would be expected to support networks in centers with little or no computer expertise.  It must be a tough enough job to do this for the existing software, let alone adding the complexity of a network.
                                         
                                        2b.)  That's there own tough luck?  A bit harsh I think.  You don't know why they aren't authorized to have computers.  It may be due to a lack of computer expertise which would put too heavy a burden on the tech support in SLC - which would be burdened even more by having to support networks.  Or, there may not be enough funds to supply the extra computers required.   Regardless of the reason, you don't know enough about it to say that it isn't germane.  Try putting the shoe on the other foot - yourself in an area that didn't have a computerized FHC - and see if you would think it were your own "tough luck".
                                         
                                        3.)  Punished?  I don't see anyone being punished.  SLC isn't saying we can't network our centers, only that we can't use tithe-payer dollars to do so.  I see this as being similar to sending a missionary into the field.  They are not funded by tithe-payer dollars either, yet they are expected to go.
                                         
                                        4.)  "My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses !!"  I don't see any request here.  Not even constructive criticism.  This statement was simply out of line, and anyone supporting it is out of line.
                                         
                                         
                                        Peter,  the last thing I want here is a flame war.  You're right, we're on the same side in this, SLC is not the opposition.  There have simply been some guidelines set and we have to be willing to work within those guidelines - which simply means that at this time we are on our own regarding networking FHCs.  I do not doubt that this will change.  I hope soon.  Meanwhile, I'm going to do everything I can, within the guidelines, to improve the efficiency in my local FHC.
                                         
                                        Mike Weaver
                                        Fairbanks, Alaska Stake
                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Peter Yorke [mailto:Pete@...]
                                        Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 7:41 AM
                                        To: 'fhctech@yahoogroups.com'
                                        Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records

                                        So after having gone so far with it, why not just go that one last step further?
                                         
                                        1) That's not germane to the issue.
                                        2) We perforce support our own networks, so that's no argument.
                                        2) That's not germane to the issue. That's their own tough luck.
                                        3) So those that show initiative and zeal are to be punished?
                                        4) Asking for what we want is murmuring? I don't think so.
                                         
                                        Why is it that our efforts (in spite of SLC opposition) to make the family history process faster, more efficient and more universally available are met with such disdain? You would think we were trying to supplant the church hierarchy or something! All we want, and we are willing to put our everything into it, is to bring this work farther along.
                                         
                                        This is important work. The difference between taking 30 minutes and 150 CD swaps and taking 2 minutes and no CD swaps to do a batch of Temple Ready qualifications is staggering. Anyone who accepts the lesser alternative when the greater one is available is just impeding the work. Move aside and let the work go forth!
                                         
                                        Sheesh! We're on your side! Cooperate with us!!!!!
                                         
                                        Pete Yorke
                                        Hayward California Stake
                                         
                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Michael T. Ritchey [mailto:ritcheym@...]
                                        Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 9:13 PM
                                        To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records

                                        To put it in perspective...

                                        1. The FCHD is funded by tithe-payer dollars. That's tithe-payers from all
                                        over the world.
                                        2. Supporting networks and network software is expensive enough at church
                                        headquarters, let alone worldwide.
                                        2. FHCs in many countries aren't even authorized to have computers. They
                                        must use fiche.
                                        3. Only 2.8% of FHCs are networked.
                                        4. The Freedman's Bank project succeeded in spite of incredible,
                                        long-lasting opposition from many angles. If church members knew even half
                                        the stories of the hardships endured, the sacrifices offered freely and
                                        knowingly by its creators (and one in particular); they'd be ashamed to
                                        murmur about something so relatively trivial as whether the FCHD was willing
                                        to support the CD's use on 100 various networks.

                                        And if murmuring Saints had any foresight, they'd know it's a non-issue
                                        anyway.

                                        Michael


                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Phil Jeffrey [mailto:phil_jeffrey28@...]
                                        Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:08 AM
                                        To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records


                                        My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses !!
                                        Phil


                                        >From: "Lee" <prgraph@...>
                                        >Reply-To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                                        >To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                                        >Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                                        >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:52:26 -0800
                                        >
                                        >Dave,
                                        >
                                        >We share your disappointment. I've raised the issue of network application
                                        >development with FHD managers on several occasions. Their rationale has
                                        >been
                                        >that the number of networked Centers, estimated to be well under 100, is
                                        >small in comparsion to the total and that the FHD does not support
                                        >networking.
                                        >
                                        >Lee
                                        >Lodi Stake FHC
                                        >http://home.pacbell.net/lodifhc/
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > It really disappoints me that with all the FHCs that are being
                                        > > networked, software is being put out that does not have a network
                                        > > option.
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >

                                        _________________________________________________________________
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                                      • Justin Masters
                                        ... There s the inherent distrust that someone wouldn t slip something into the code that would hurt the church later. How to screen bad code from critics of
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Mar 9, 2001
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Verily, Peter Yorke did write:
                                          | I appreciate your viewpoint.
                                          |
                                          | I would like however to digress to an earlier discussion. If the software
                                          | development process were opened up to the large, worldwide, capable
                                          | volunteer developer community we would get better, faster, cheaper, more
                                          | consistent, more useable, more universal software. The whole world would
                                          | benefit.

                                          There's the inherent distrust that someone wouldn't slip something
                                          into the code that would hurt the church later. How to screen bad
                                          code from critics of the church would be the issue. As a past
                                          software developer, code reviews were one of the most despised things
                                          to do. The part worked, we trust them, why review it? I have my own
                                          work to do, and my boss wants me here for a meeting!

                                          | Instead we hold it close to the vest as though it were a commercial
                                          | enterprise, then dole it out in small increments that are each and every one
                                          | different from the previous. We end up getting into this very same
                                          | discussion with every new morsel.

                                          It's very difficult to implement an idealistic software shop, and I'm
                                          sure with the church's generous pay in SLC that they're able to hold
                                          onto very talented individuals with families to support over several years
                                          and get well produced software. We criticize Microsoft for their
                                          quality and I'm sure they pour money into their development...

                                          | THAT is constructive criticism, and I have a guess as to how many SLC
                                          | product managers (or whatever they call them there) would be willing to give
                                          | up their management positions and make something like that happen. (What,
                                          | job security may be a motivation? It's been known to happen!)

                                          I'd most likely categorize it as the amount of inertia to overcome
                                          a church/business hierarchy used for approval. This is more of a
                                          social issue with regards to how we as saints tend to accept
                                          leadership edicts and how that behavior transfers into real life. For
                                          instance, I'm very frustrated we don't have more people who are
                                          willing to show a more public interest in our community. Because of
                                          that, we go through some poor public policy programs that end up
                                          costing us societally and monetarily and introducing a precedent for a
                                          continued encroachment of bad moral ideas, teachings, etc. But when
                                          asked, people say they're afraid of confrontation (where's the
                                          constructive dialog?), they seem themselves as an individual and not
                                          having much impact (what if all those individuals DID something?
                                          They'd get leaders' attention!), they don't know about the process
                                          (did we stop learning when the grades stopped flowing?), and aren't
                                          interested (WHEN will you get interested? When it directly impacts
                                          YOU? What about the other steps that affect others and WILL affect you
                                          later through incremental steps?)

                                          Sorry for the sidetrack, but in a sentence (succinct and blunt), too
                                          many people in the church are like sheep, waiting to be told what to
                                          do. And that's not right. And this gets transferred to public life.
                                          There is a proper time for subservience, but we are to serve. There is
                                          a time to be proactive (or not commanded in all things) Not everything
                                          needs to be told to us. But we need to understand when each behavior is
                                          appropriate.

                                          | How does public-domain software get supported? By public-domain volunteers.
                                          | FHCTECH is a prime example of how the Family History Department could solve
                                          | its (perceived) support woes. Of couse the natural vehicle for this would be
                                          | the internet, but we (the church) are so absolutely terrified that someone
                                          | might pull up a web page with the word "hell" on it that we would rather
                                          | shoot ourselves in both feet before doing that. Paranoia is unbecoming
                                          | disciples of Jesus Christ.

                                          You're not recognizing a crucial point made in some scripture, none
                                          more simply than seen in D&C 89 where the Lord makes suggestions about
                                          the Word of Wisdom's limits based upon the least of those who it would
                                          be applied to. Sure, there are some who could responsibly drink wine,
                                          but there are some who go too far. Other examples are out there, but
                                          the point I make is that as a single organization, the church has to
                                          walk a very careful (and conservatively slanted) line about how to
                                          implement programs. A single instance that brings out an extreme
                                          example of this was the question people had when Africa opened up.
                                          How are we going to convert people whose culture and way of life has
                                          been polygamous? Can you imagine the conundrum of someone who is
                                          asked to be a member of a family centric churc, having had lots of spouses,
                                          and being told to get rid of all but one? How about the temple
                                          recommend interview that asks if they've kept up on their legal (and
                                          ethical) responsibility (financial and otherwise) of any children,
                                          spouse, ex-spouse, etc?

                                          The church has stated no polygamy unless the Lord reveals it's
                                          reinstatement. Well, guess what? We don't convert those folks. Is
                                          the gospel any less applicable to them? No. But we have to act in a
                                          way that affects the saints as a whole, and let the Lord deal with
                                          other areas, a point made with more vocal intensity as it pertains to
                                          saints who kill themselves. We used to condemn them to hell, and now
                                          we're being asked to let the Lord do the judgement, as we cannot
                                          understand their motivations. We are to reach out to all. That is
                                          our stewardship.


                                          Again, sorry about the sidetrack...

                                          | I, for one, along with the able assistance of my wife, would be willing to
                                          | travel most anywhere in northern California/eastern Nevada to help folks
                                          | out. I'm sure we're not the only ones.

                                          You know, this sounds good, but let's be practical. Unless we have a
                                          good training program in place, we're going to very quickly burn out
                                          every time someone in a distant locale can't figure out what an error
                                          message means, or didn't realize something wasn't plugged in, etc. I
                                          have several children and a wife, my job, other commitments, and can't
                                          always handle issues at my FHC which is 20 miles away. I'm VERY
                                          grateful for the presence of a man who recently retired from IBM. He
                                          was unsure, but willing, and I offered my service in an advisory
                                          capacity. He's learning, I don't have to run up there all the time
                                          anymore, and the FHC functions well. (We don't have a network yet -
                                          I'm working on it. :-) Two machines are peer-to-peer with AF only on
                                          CDROM)

                                          But until we get trained people there to help, or have a good training
                                          program in place, it's asking a lot of people to travel long distances
                                          to support equipment.

                                          |
                                          | SLC should not be the opposition. But try calling them for support. And I'm
                                          | not talking about networking support.

                                          Understood... more than I wish I could say I understood...

                                          Justin

                                          |
                                          |
                                          |
                                          | -----Original Message-----
                                          | From: Mike Weaver [mailto:mweaver@...]
                                          | Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 9:31 AM
                                          | To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                                          | Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                                          |
                                          |
                                          | Peter,
                                          |
                                          | I'm afraid I have to disagree.
                                          |
                                          | 1.) It is germane. The money spent to network one FHC to eliminate CD
                                          | swapping could be spent to put a computer in a FHC to eliminate fiche
                                          | swapping. If I'm the one doing the swapping I would much prefer CDs.
                                          |
                                          | 2a.) You support your network, great. But if the FHCs were authorized to
                                          | network then SLC would be expected to support networks in centers with
                                          | little or no computer expertise. It must be a tough enough job to do this
                                          | for the existing software, let alone adding the complexity of a network.
                                          |
                                          | 2b.) That's there own tough luck? A bit harsh I think. You don't know why
                                          | they aren't authorized to have computers. It may be due to a lack of
                                          | computer expertise which would put too heavy a burden on the tech support in
                                          | SLC - which would be burdened even more by having to support networks. Or,
                                          | there may not be enough funds to supply the extra computers required.
                                          | Regardless of the reason, you don't know enough about it to say that it
                                          | isn't germane. Try putting the shoe on the other foot - yourself in an area
                                          | that didn't have a computerized FHC - and see if you would think it were
                                          | your own "tough luck".
                                          |
                                          | 3.) Punished? I don't see anyone being punished. SLC isn't saying we
                                          | can't network our centers, only that we can't use tithe-payer dollars to do
                                          | so. I see this as being similar to sending a missionary into the field.
                                          | They are not funded by tithe-payer dollars either, yet they are expected to
                                          | go.
                                          |
                                          | 4.) "My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses
                                          | !!" I don't see any request here. Not even constructive criticism. This
                                          | statement was simply out of line, and anyone supporting it is out of line.
                                          |
                                          |
                                          | Peter, the last thing I want here is a flame war. You're right, we're on
                                          | the same side in this, SLC is not the opposition. There have simply been
                                          | some guidelines set and we have to be willing to work within those
                                          | guidelines - which simply means that at this time we are on our own
                                          | regarding networking FHCs. I do not doubt that this will change. I hope
                                          | soon. Meanwhile, I'm going to do everything I can, within the guidelines,
                                          | to improve the efficiency in my local FHC.
                                          |
                                          | Mike Weaver
                                          | Fairbanks, Alaska Stake
                                          |
                                          | -----Original Message-----
                                          | From: Peter Yorke [mailto:Pete@...]
                                          | Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 7:41 AM
                                          | To: 'fhctech@yahoogroups.com'
                                          | Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                                          |
                                          |
                                          | So after having gone so far with it, why not just go that one last step
                                          | further?
                                          |
                                          | 1) That's not germane to the issue.
                                          | 2) We perforce support our own networks, so that's no argument.
                                          | 2) That's not germane to the issue. That's their own tough luck.
                                          | 3) So those that show initiative and zeal are to be punished?
                                          | 4) Asking for what we want is murmuring? I don't think so.
                                          |
                                          | Why is it that our efforts (in spite of SLC opposition) to make the family
                                          | history process faster, more efficient and more universally available are
                                          | met with such disdain? You would think we were trying to supplant the church
                                          | hierarchy or something! All we want, and we are willing to put our
                                          | everything into it, is to bring this work farther along.
                                          |
                                          | This is important work. The difference between taking 30 minutes and 150 CD
                                          | swaps and taking 2 minutes and no CD swaps to do a batch of Temple Ready
                                          | qualifications is staggering. Anyone who accepts the lesser alternative when
                                          | the greater one is available is just impeding the work. Move aside and let
                                          | the work go forth!
                                          |
                                          | Sheesh! We're on your side! Cooperate with us!!!!!
                                          |
                                          | Pete Yorke
                                          | Hayward California Stake
                                          |
                                          |
                                          | -----Original Message-----
                                          | From: Michael T. Ritchey [mailto:ritcheym@...]
                                          | Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 9:13 PM
                                          | To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                                          | Subject: RE: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                                          |
                                          |
                                          | To put it in perspective...
                                          |
                                          | 1. The FCHD is funded by tithe-payer dollars. That's tithe-payers from all
                                          | over the world.
                                          | 2. Supporting networks and network software is expensive enough at church
                                          | headquarters, let alone worldwide.
                                          | 2. FHCs in many countries aren't even authorized to have computers. They
                                          | must use fiche.
                                          | 3. Only 2.8% of FHCs are networked.
                                          | 4. The Freedman's Bank project succeeded in spite of incredible,
                                          | long-lasting opposition from many angles. If church members knew even half
                                          | the stories of the hardships endured, the sacrifices offered freely and
                                          | knowingly by its creators (and one in particular); they'd be ashamed to
                                          | murmur about something so relatively trivial as whether the FCHD was willing
                                          | to support the CD's use on 100 various networks.
                                          |
                                          | And if murmuring Saints had any foresight, they'd know it's a non-issue
                                          | anyway.
                                          |
                                          | Michael
                                          |
                                          |
                                          | -----Original Message-----
                                          | From: Phil Jeffrey [mailto:phil_jeffrey28@...]
                                          | Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:08 AM
                                          | To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                                          | Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                                          |
                                          |
                                          | My impression is they don't support much of anything, except excuses !!
                                          | Phil
                                          |
                                          |
                                          | >From: "Lee" <prgraph@...>
                                          | >Reply-To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                                          | >To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                                          | >Subject: Re: [fhctech] Frredman's Bank Records
                                          | >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:52:26 -0800
                                          | >
                                          | >Dave,
                                          | >
                                          | >We share your disappointment. I've raised the issue of network application
                                          | >development with FHD managers on several occasions. Their rationale has
                                          | >been
                                          | >that the number of networked Centers, estimated to be well under 100, is
                                          | >small in comparsion to the total and that the FHD does not support
                                          | >networking.
                                          | >
                                          | >Lee
                                          | >Lodi Stake FHC
                                          | > http://home.pacbell.net/lodifhc/ <http://home.pacbell.net/lodifhc/>
                                          | >
                                          | > >
                                          | > > It really disappoints me that with all the FHCs that are being
                                          | > > networked, software is being put out that does not have a network
                                          | > > option.
                                          | > >
                                          | >
                                          | >
                                          |
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                                          Justin Masters (Systems Programmer) PH: 916 356-6735
                                          Intel Corp. FM6-17 FAX: 916 377-2288
                                          1900 Prairie City Rd, Folsom, CA 95630 jmasters@...
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