Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE: [fhctech] New Server Recommendations

Expand Messages
  • Rick Klemetson
    One point, current collections are over 140 Gigs, so you ll need to plan for multiple drives or one larger than the 120 you ve looked at. Rick Klemetson
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 7 8:47 PM

      One point, current collections are over 140 Gigs, so you’ll need to plan for multiple drives or one larger than the 120 you’ve looked at.

       

      Rick Klemetson

      Rick@...

      Rick.Klemetson@...

      801.368.1770 Cell

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: steve [mailto:dudescholar@...]
      Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 9:20 PM
      To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [fhctech] New Server Recommendations

       

      Our family history library is just getting started (we are not an approved
      center yet but this is a stake center) and has 7 machines running windows 98
      with about 3.2 Gig's each.

      Running on the theory that it is easier to repent than to get permission, I
      added some network cards to some and put 5 of them on a local network with a
      5 port switch.  Now these boxes can all print and the employment people, who
      seem to use the room the most nowadays, will be happy.  I need to next get a
      router so I can connect up DSL when we get it (assuming we can).

      My next project is to get a server up and running so Family Search can be run
      without swapping CDs.  Currently I've been paying for all this myself and
      will continue to do so if necessary, but would like to make a case to the
      stake if I could.

      I'm familiar with windows and can hack at it until I get it right, although I
      loath getting windows 98 and XP systems working together since adding an XP
      machine to my home nextwork of 98 and linux boxes (11 total) complete screws
      up network neighborhood.

      I'm inclined towards Linux but what software/hardward recommendations does
      anyone have?

      I've priced a machine with a 19 inch monitor, 2.5 GHz speed, 512 Meg ram and
      120 Gig hard drive, CD-RW, network cards, etc., etc. for about $800-850
      without OS and I can then load Suse 8.2 Pro.  (If I could I would like to run
      eveything on the server and turn the local machines into thin cheap clients
      allowing members to also connect from home, but that's another project
      alltogether.)

      I understand that the Church uses internet filtering of some kind or requires
      it, what's the story on that?  Would configuring Linux for filtering be
      acceptable? How does one otherwise install filtering on a DSL and/or Cable
      conenction?

      --

      Steve

      "Knowledge of the world has its roots in those who dare to be different."
        -- Joje Reyes



      Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
      Community email addresses:
        Post message: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
        Subscribe:    fhctech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        Unsubscribe:  fhctech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        List owner:   Rick@...
      Shortcut URL to Yahoo! group page:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fhctech


      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
    • Cottrell, Shogo
      If you want to have a consistent infrastructure, I would recommend going to Windows 2000. The requirements are pretty low (CPU a min of P133, although it
      Message 2 of 25 , Sep 8 5:48 AM
        If you want to have a consistent infrastructure, I would recommend going to Windows 2000.  The requirements are pretty low (CPU a min of P133, although it won't be fast).   You can get licenses for Win2K through SLC via the Information Systems Order form.
         
        The filtering comes through the church supplied (they may not be supplying it now, based on some ongoing threads, so you'll want to verify) SonicWall firewall.  I think that it does a pretty good job.  At home, I use a Linux box running SquidGuard for Internet filtering and it runs great.  It runs a job nightly that downloads the latest block lists. 
         
        -- Shogo Cottrell
        Cocoa Florida FHC Computer Specialist
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Rick Klemetson [mailto:Rick@...]
        Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:48 PM
        To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [fhctech] New Server Recommendations

        One point, current collections are over 140 Gigs, so you’ll need to plan for multiple drives or one larger than the 120 you’ve looked at.

         

        Rick Klemetson

        Rick@...

        Rick.Klemetson@...

        801.368.1770 Cell

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: steve [mailto:dudescholar@...]
        Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 9:20 PM
        To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [fhctech] New Server Recommendations

         

        Our family history library is just getting started (we are not an approved
        center yet but this is a stake center) and has 7 machines running windows 98
        with about 3.2 Gig's each.

        Running on the theory that it is easier to repent than to get permission, I
        added some network cards to some and put 5 of them on a local network with a
        5 port switch.  Now these boxes can all print and the employment people, who
        seem to use the room the most nowadays, will be happy.  I need to next get a
        router so I can connect up DSL when we get it (assuming we can).

        My next project is to get a server up and running so Family Search can be run
        without swapping CDs.  Currently I've been paying for all this myself and
        will continue to do so if necessary, but would like to make a case to the
        stake if I could.

        I'm familiar with windows and can hack at it until I get it right, although I
        loath getting windows 98 and XP systems working together since adding an XP
        machine to my home nextwork of 98 and linux boxes (11 total) complete screws
        up network neighborhood.

        I'm inclined towards Linux but what software/hardward recommendations does
        anyone have?

        I've priced a machine with a 19 inch monitor, 2.5 GHz speed, 512 Meg ram and
        120 Gig hard drive, CD-RW, network cards, etc., etc. for about $800-850
        without OS and I can then load Suse 8.2 Pro.  (If I could I would like to run
        eveything on the server and turn the local machines into thin cheap clients
        allowing members to also connect from home, but that's another project
        alltogether.)

        I understand that the Church uses internet filtering of some kind or requires
        it, what's the story on that?  Would configuring Linux for filtering be
        acceptable? How does one otherwise install filtering on a DSL and/or Cable
        conenction?

        --

        Steve

        "Knowledge of the world has its roots in those who dare to be different."
          -- Joje Reyes



        Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
        Community email addresses:
          Post message: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
          Subscribe:    fhctech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          Unsubscribe:  fhctech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          List owner:   Rick@...
        Shortcut URL to Yahoo! group page:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fhctech


        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




        Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
        Community email addresses:
          Post message: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
          Subscribe:    fhctech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          Unsubscribe:  fhctech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          List owner:   Rick@...
        Shortcut URL to Yahoo! group page:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fhctech


        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      • Cottrell, Shogo
        We have a network running all Win2K boxes. Instead of using the UNC convention, I mapped all of the drives, including the ones for the Vital Records. At the
        Message 3 of 25 , Sep 8 5:57 AM
          We have a network running all Win2K boxes.  Instead of using the UNC convention, I mapped all of the drives, including the ones for the Vital Records.  At the command prompt, try:
           
          net use u: \\servername\sharepath /persistent:yes
           
          Then, you can modify the ini files (I don't have my documentation with me, but I think that's what you need to do for the 1851 British Census and the AVR).
           
          Hope this helps.
           
          -- Shogo Cottrell
          Cocoa Florida FHC Computer Specialist
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Tim Rosenlof [mailto:sparky@...]
          Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 9:35 PM
          To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [fhctech] 1851 British Census - Windows 2000

          When I try to launch the 1851 British Census, it brings up the viewer with
          just 1851 British Census and then the program hangs(freezes). I have to use
          the task manager (which say's it's not responding) to stop it.

          I'm using a UNC path to access it from the server

          Austrialian Vital Records works just fine (I have it on the same share,
          different dir of course). Same viewer ?

          Works fine on our WindowsME boxes. .. Moving up to 2000 on all 6 once I get
          the buggies out.

          Suggestions / Thoughts ?

          Tim Rosenlof
          Lehi, Utah



          Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
          Community email addresses:
            Post message: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
            Subscribe:    fhctech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            Unsubscribe:  fhctech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            List owner:   Rick@...
          Shortcut URL to Yahoo! group page:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fhctech


          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • Gary Templeman
          While our server is running Linux, I would now recommend against it. The main reason being that callings change and people move. Linux is still basically a
          Message 4 of 25 , Sep 8 7:15 AM
            While our server is running Linux, I would now recommend against it. The
            main reason being that callings change and people move. Linux is still
            basically a gearhead operating system and it can be difficult to find
            someone with enough knowledge to keep a Linux system up to date even if they
            know PC's really well. Our Linux guru got called as the EQ President so I
            cannot reasonably call on him for any time consuming issues at the FHC
            anymore.

            He had suggested Linux for it's crash resistance and stability when operated
            for long periods. However, we subsequently learned that the manual says the
            computers are not to be operated when the center is unattended, so it gets
            re-booted every day anyway.

            Even my guru took a lot of time getting SAMBA configured correctly to work
            with our Windows boxes. This was pre-internet with static IP's. Since you
            are apparently going to be networked and have a DSL/Cable connection, I
            would suggest keeping the OS's within the same family (Micro$oft), setting
            them all to use DHCP, and let the router assign the IP addresses. I have
            found Windows XP even easier to add to a network under those conditions.

            Gary Templeman

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "steve" <dudescholar@...>
            To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 8:19 PM
            Subject: [fhctech] New Server Recommendations


            > Our family history library is just getting started (we are not an approved
            > center yet but this is a stake center) and has 7 machines running windows
            98
            > with about 3.2 Gig's each.
            >
            > Running on the theory that it is easier to repent than to get permission,
            I
            > added some network cards to some and put 5 of them on a local network with
            a
            > 5 port switch. Now these boxes can all print and the employment people,
            who
            > seem to use the room the most nowadays, will be happy. I need to next get
            a
            > router so I can connect up DSL when we get it (assuming we can).
            >
            > My next project is to get a server up and running so Family Search can be
            run
            > without swapping CDs. Currently I've been paying for all this myself and
            > will continue to do so if necessary, but would like to make a case to the
            > stake if I could.
            >
            > I'm familiar with windows and can hack at it until I get it right,
            although I
            > loath getting windows 98 and XP systems working together since adding an
            XP
            > machine to my home nextwork of 98 and linux boxes (11 total) complete
            screws
            > up network neighborhood.
            >
            > I'm inclined towards Linux but what software/hardward recommendations does
            > anyone have?
            >
            > I've priced a machine with a 19 inch monitor, 2.5 GHz speed, 512 Meg ram
            and
            > 120 Gig hard drive, CD-RW, network cards, etc., etc. for about $800-850
            > without OS and I can then load Suse 8.2 Pro. (If I could I would like to
            run
            > eveything on the server and turn the local machines into thin cheap
            clients
            > allowing members to also connect from home, but that's another project
            > alltogether.)
            >
            > I understand that the Church uses internet filtering of some kind or
            requires
            > it, what's the story on that? Would configuring Linux for filtering be
            > acceptable? How does one otherwise install filtering on a DSL and/or Cable
            > conenction?
            >
            > --
            >
            > Steve
            >
            > "Knowledge of the world has its roots in those who dare to be different."
            > -- Joje Reyes
          • Russell Houlton
            ... (assuming we can).
            Message 5 of 25 , Sep 8 10:47 AM
              >>> I need to next get a router so I can connect up DSL when we get it
              (assuming we can). <<<

              The firewall/router will be part of the church-mandated (and maybe supplied)
              items when you get approval to connect to the internet. So wait until you
              get to that step.


              >>> I'm inclined towards Linux but what software/hardward recommendations
              does
              anyone have? <<<

              Out of kindness to whoever replaces you, you might consider sticking to
              Windows. There are a lot more windows people out there then Linux people.
              Some stakes have trouble just finding someone who knows networking much less
              Linux. Once you are an approved center, you can get Win2000 Workstation at
              no cost to you via SLC through the Stake Computer Clerk. While I think
              Linux is in the future, the future isn't here yet.

              >>> 19 inch monitor <<<

              You don't need a 19" on a server. Particularly if the server will not be
              running any end-user software. If you must get it, put it on one of the
              workstations and use the old monitor for the server.

              FamilySearch (DOS) is about dead. The data is 2 years old and will not be
              updated. Everything will be on-line some time in the near future. The up
              and coming "local" app is PRF which will shortly be at 70 CDs. Simply put,
              buy the largest hard drive you can cheaply get. I don't know as I'd worry
              that much about server horsepower since the bulk of what people will do will
              be internet. When you only have a few clients hitting the server, you don't
              need that big a server. Any old clunker of a server is still WAY faster
              then CDs so no one will complain.


              >>> allowing members to also connect from home <<<

              Can you say "copyright infringement"? Don't even think about publishing it.
              Last I knew web pages are taboo unless you get special permission from
              Church HQ.


              >>> I understand that the Church uses internet filtering of some kind or
              requires
              it, what's the story on that? Would configuring Linux for filtering be
              acceptable? How does one otherwise install filtering on a DSL and/or Cable
              conenction? <<<

              They will tell you what to get. In the past they have supplied SonicWalls
              for free, now I'm hearing that they may you pay for a Cisco PIX.
            • wlp
              Steve, Our experience suggests that a more robust and less performance-oriented server would be better suited for FHC use, e.g. 17 monitor, Athlon XP 1800+,
              Message 6 of 25 , Sep 8 12:36 PM
                Steve,

                Our experience suggests that a more robust and less performance-oriented server would be better suited for FHC use, e.g. 17" monitor, Athlon XP 1800+, 256 MB RAM, 2 x 40 GB (system) and 2 x 200 GB (data) both RAID 1.

                HTH,

                Lee


                >I've priced a machine with a 19 inch monitor, 2.5 GHz speed, 512 Meg ram and
                >120 Gig hard drive, CD-RW, network cards, etc., etc. for about $800-850
              • Louis Puster
                You don t need a server at all. Add a large hard drive to a couple of your workstations (or replace the one that is there) and load your CDs onto those HD.
                Message 7 of 25 , Sep 8 1:31 PM
                  You don't need a server at all.  Add a large hard drive to a couple of your workstations (or replace the one that is there) and load your CDs onto those HD.  The Cisco 501 PIX has four outputs, so once you run a cable between it and your switch, you will have ports for all 7 computers.
                   
                  Louis.
                  Knoxville TN FHC

                  *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

                  On 9/7/2003 at 8:19 PM steve wrote:
                  Our family history library is just getting started (we are not an approved
                  center yet but this is a stake center) and has 7 machines running windows 98
                  with about 3.2 Gig's each.

                  Running on the theory that it is easier to repent than to get permission, I
                  added some network cards to some and put 5 of them on a local network with a
                  5 port switch.  Now these boxes can all print and the employment people, who
                  seem to use the room the most nowadays, will be happy.  I need to next get a
                  router so I can connect up DSL when we get it (assuming we can).

                  My next project is to get a server up and running so Family Search can be run
                  without swapping CDs.  Currently I've been paying for all this myself and
                  will continue to do so if necessary, but would like to make a case to the
                  stake if I could.

                  I'm familiar with windows and can hack at it until I get it right, although I
                  loathe getting windows 98 and XP systems working together since adding an XP
                  machine to my home network of 98 and Linux boxes (11 total) complete screws
                  up network neighborhood.

                  I'm inclined towards Linux but what software/hardware recommendations does
                  anyone have?

                  I've priced a machine with a 19 inch monitor, 2.5 GHz speed, 512 Meg ram and
                  120 Gig hard drive, CD-RW, network cards, etc., etc. for about $800-850
                  without OS and I can then load Suse 8.2 Pro.  (If I could I would like to run
                  everything on the server and turn the local machines into thin cheap clients
                  allowing members to also connect from home, but that's another project
                  altogether.)

                  I understand that the Church uses Internet filtering of some kind or requires
                  it, what's the story on that?  Would configuring Linux for filtering be
                  acceptable? How does one otherwise install filtering on a DSL and/or Cable
                  connection?

                  --

                  Steve

                  "Knowledge of the world has its roots in those who dare to be different."
                    -- Joje Reyes
                • Louis Puster
                  1. I would not recommend installing a RAID HD array. It doubles the HD cost to protect data that is easily restored from the CDROMs. 2. I doubt you will see
                  Message 8 of 25 , Sep 8 2:08 PM
                    1.  I would not recommend installing a RAID HD array.  It doubles the HD cost to protect data that is easily restored from the CDROMs.
                    2.  I doubt you will see much difference between a 600 MHz server and a 2.5 GHz server from a workstation.  I think the hard drives will limit the speed of the data transfer.
                     
                    Louis
                    Knoxville TN FHC

                    *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

                    On 9/8/2003 at 12:36 PM wlp wrote:
                    Steve,

                    Our experience suggests that a more robust and less performance-oriented server would be better suited for FHC use, e.g. 17" monitor, Athlon XP 1800+, 256 MB RAM, 2 x 40 GB (system) and 2 x 200 GB (data) both RAID 1.

                    HTH,

                    Lee
                  • Russell Houlton
                    ... and your switch, you will have ports for all 7 computers.
                    Message 9 of 25 , Sep 8 2:29 PM
                      >>> The Cisco 501 PIX has four outputs, so once you run a cable between it
                      and your switch, you will have ports for all 7 computers. <<<

                      That does not compute. What am I missing? Or was that a typo? Don't
                      forget a port for a printer.

                      - Russell -
                    • ShogoC
                      They already have a 5 port switch, so add those 5 plus the 4 in the PIX and subtract 2 for the link between the two, you should have 7. ... between it ...
                      Message 10 of 25 , Sep 8 2:57 PM
                        They already have a 5 port switch, so add those 5 plus the 4 in the
                        PIX and subtract 2 for the link between the two, you should have 7.

                        :)



                        --- In fhctech@yahoogroups.com, Russell Houlton <R_Houlton@c...>
                        wrote:
                        > >>> The Cisco 501 PIX has four outputs, so once you run a cable
                        between it
                        > and your switch, you will have ports for all 7 computers. <<<
                        >
                        > That does not compute. What am I missing? Or was that a typo?
                        Don't
                        > forget a port for a printer.
                        >
                        > - Russell -
                      • wlp
                        Louis, We believe that in most instances the cost of providing redundant drive capacity is low enough to offset the time and expense required to acquire and
                        Message 11 of 25 , Sep 8 3:11 PM
                          Louis,

                          We believe that in most instances the cost of providing redundant drive capacity is low enough to offset the time and expense required to acquire and install a replacement drive and restore data from nearly 250 CD's.

                          Two hundred gigabyte drives are available for $175; the price is decreasing. The question is not whether redundant storage is appropriate for new server installations, it's when.

                          Our experience has been that a server installation is more secure and more maintainable than distributing CD data among patron workstations.

                          Lee

                          >>>> 1. I would not recommend installing a RAID HD array. It doubles the HD cost to protect data that is easily restored from the CDROMs.

                          >> You don't need a server at all. Add a large hard drive to a couple of your workstations (or replace the one that is there) and load your CDs onto those HD.
                        • Russell Houlton
                          ... PIX and subtract 2 for the link between the two, you should have 7.
                          Message 12 of 25 , Sep 8 4:26 PM
                            >>> They already have a 5 port switch, so add those 5 plus the 4 in the
                            PIX and subtract 2 for the link between the two, you should have 7. <<<

                            - Russell -


                            Ah!
                          • Russell Houlton
                            ... I must be falling way behind. Family Search CDs + PRF CDs + ???? = 250? - Russell -
                            Message 13 of 25 , Sep 8 4:28 PM
                              >>> and restore data from nearly 250 CD's. <<<

                              I must be falling way behind.

                              Family Search CDs + PRF CDs + ???? = 250?


                              - Russell -
                            • wlp
                              FS + PRF + FHRF = 150 GB (ref. http://fhctech.org/fhc/applications/index.htm) 150 GB /600 MB = 250
                              Message 14 of 25 , Sep 8 4:55 PM
                                FS + PRF + FHRF = 150 GB (ref. http://fhctech.org/fhc/applications/index.htm)

                                150 GB /600 MB = 250


                                >
                                >I must be falling way behind.
                                >
                                >Family Search CDs + PRF CDs + ???? = 250?
                                >
                              • Gary Templeman
                                One problem with having data spread over multiple workstations, at least in the Windows 9x environment, is getting all the mapped drives to come online
                                Message 15 of 25 , Sep 8 7:03 PM
                                  One problem with having data spread over multiple workstations, at least in
                                  the Windows 9x environment, is getting all the mapped drives to come online
                                  properly. For example, if computer "A" is not all the way up when computer
                                  "B" logs on it doesn't make the connection. Keeping a precise boot order can
                                  be challenging for our often minimally computer literate staff.( I am not a
                                  networking guru however, so I could be missing something simple that
                                  eliminates that issue) There are workarounds, but why bother? Having
                                  everything on one server keeps things a lot simpler for the staff and
                                  problems are easier to troubleshoot by the computer tech.

                                  The "server" does not necessarily need to be a dedicated machine, but if you
                                  can add those large drives to just one existing workstation I think it keeps
                                  the setup cleaner than spreading the data out.

                                  Gary Templeman

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Louis Puster
                                  To: FHCTech Listserv
                                  Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 1:31 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [fhctech] New Server Recommendations


                                  You don't need a server at all. Add a large hard drive to a couple of your
                                  workstations (or replace the one that is there) and load your CDs onto those
                                  HD. The Cisco 501 PIX has four outputs, so once you run a cable between it
                                  and your switch, you will have ports for all 7 computers.

                                  Louis.
                                  Knoxville TN FHC
                                • Gary Templeman
                                  The IDE RAID cards are pretty cheap now. As long as the case has room for the drives I would certainly go that route. They can be easily added to existing
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Sep 8 7:10 PM
                                    The IDE RAID cards are pretty cheap now. As long as the case has room for
                                    the drives I would certainly go that route. They can be easily added to
                                    existing installations and they automatically copy the data to the new drive
                                    to create the RAID without losing any of the original information.

                                    Gary Templeman

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "wlp" <listlee@...>
                                    To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 3:11 PM
                                    Subject: [fhctech] Re: New Server Recommendations


                                    > Louis,
                                    >
                                    > We believe that in most instances the cost of providing redundant drive
                                    capacity is low enough to offset the time and expense required to acquire
                                    and install a replacement drive and restore data from nearly 250 CD's.
                                    >
                                    > Two hundred gigabyte drives are available for $175; the price is
                                    decreasing. The question is not whether redundant storage is appropriate for
                                    new server installations, it's when.
                                    >
                                    > Our experience has been that a server installation is more secure and more
                                    maintainable than distributing CD data among patron workstations.
                                    >
                                    > Lee
                                    >
                                    > >>>> 1. I would not recommend installing a RAID HD array. It doubles the
                                    HD cost to protect data that is easily restored from the CDROMs.
                                    >
                                    > >> You don't need a server at all. Add a large hard drive to a couple of
                                    your workstations (or replace the one that is there) and load your CDs onto
                                    those HD.
                                    >
                                    > Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
                                    > Community email addresses:
                                    > Post message: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subscribe: fhctech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Unsubscribe: fhctech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > List owner: Rick@...
                                    > Shortcut URL to Yahoo! group page:
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fhctech
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • steve
                                    ... I currently have 5 of the machines (5 port switch) set up to print both DOS and Windows documents to a printer configured on one of the machines so I don t
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Sep 8 7:22 PM
                                      On Monday 08 September 2003 2:29 pm, Russell Houlto wrote:
                                      > >>> The Cisco 501 PIX has four outputs, so once you run a cable between it
                                      >
                                      > and your switch, you will have ports for all 7 computers. <<<
                                      >
                                      > That does not compute. What am I missing? Or was that a typo? Don't
                                      > forget a port for a printer.
                                      >
                                      > - Russell -

                                      I currently have 5 of the machines (5 port switch) set up to print both DOS
                                      and Windows documents to a printer configured on one of the machines so I
                                      don't need a TCP/IP port for that. The only issues is the computer with the
                                      printer has to be turned on to print from any machine.

                                      --

                                      Steve

                                      "Knowledge of the world has its roots in those who dare to be different."
                                      -- Joje Reyes
                                    • steve
                                      Here is what I figured so far ( I get my basic systems from http://cyberpowerinc.com/home.htm where I usually get a good deal and don t have to buy an OS ) ATX
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Sep 8 8:14 PM
                                        Here is what I figured so far ( I get my basic systems from
                                        http://cyberpowerinc.com/home.htm where I usually get a good deal and don't
                                        have to buy an OS )

                                        ATX MEDIUM TOWER CASE 350 WATT
                                        MOTHERBOARD: ABit NF7 nForce2
                                        ULTRA Chipset 400 FSB AGP 8X w/ LAN, USB2.0, & Audio
                                        AMD Athlon XP-2400+ Processor & AMD CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK
                                        256 MB (256MBx1) PC3200 400MHz DDR MEMORY
                                        First HD - 120GB 7200 RPM ATA 100 HARD DRIVE
                                        Second HD - 120GB 7200 RPM ATA 100 HARD DRIVE
                                        56X CD-ROM
                                        FLOPPY: MITSUMI 1.44 MB FLOPPY DR

                                        No keyboard, mouse, speakers, or monitor are included - I removed them from
                                        the basic package. I'm going to use an extra KVM box I have in the house to
                                        share with another machine in the computer room. Hopefully that will not
                                        confuse anyone who needs to know too much.

                                        The mother board has a basic graphics system and LAN so I don't need to buy
                                        anything else.

                                        Total price including shipping - $498

                                        I would like to play with Linux but pragmatism says to get the MS 2000 Pro
                                        license from the church and use it - I can actually try both ways and see how
                                        it goes. Since this is mostly going to serve up data and perhaps have
                                        printers attached, any reason to have more than 256 Meg of memory on the MS
                                        2000 Pro side?

                                        The computers I have now are 166 Mhz machines so I don't want to use any of
                                        them as a server.

                                        --

                                        Steve

                                        "Knowledge of the world has its roots in those who dare to be different."
                                        -- Joje Reyes
                                      • Louis Puster
                                        Yes, you are missing something. There is a trick: In Windows 98, go to properties of Client for Microsoft Networking and select Quick Logon . This is the
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Sep 8 9:04 PM
                                          Yes, you are missing something.  There is a trick:  In Windows 98, go to properties of Client for Microsoft Networking and select "Quick Logon".  This is the magic bullet that makes the boot-up order not matter because the network drives are not actually accessed until you try to read from them.  By that time, all have been booted up.  I continue to read about people who have resorted to batch files to map drives because they keep losing them.  We have never had that problem here.
                                           
                                          I wish Win 2000 had the "Quick Logon" setting.  But, at least the window that pops up is set up so it is less likely that someone will select to not try to map the drives in the future.
                                           
                                          In our case, we do have all the data on one machine, which we call our server.  However, it is also the workstation used at the desk by the staff and runs Inventory Manager and REFIS.
                                           
                                          Louis.
                                          Knoxville TN FHC

                                          *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

                                          On 9/8/2003 at 7:03 PM Gary Templeman wrote:
                                          One problem with having data spread over multiple workstations, at least in
                                          the Windows 9x environment, is getting all the mapped drives to come online
                                          properly.  For example, if computer "A" is not all the way up when computer
                                          "B" logs on it doesn't make the connection. Keeping a precise boot order can
                                          be challenging for our often minimally computer literate staff.( I am not a
                                          networking guru however, so I could be missing something simple that
                                          eliminates that issue) There are workarounds, but  why bother? Having
                                          everything on one server keeps things a lot simpler for the staff and
                                          problems are easier to troubleshoot by the computer tech.

                                          The "server" does not necessarily need to be a dedicated machine, but if you
                                          can add those large drives to just one existing workstation I think it keeps
                                          the setup cleaner than spreading the data out.

                                          Gary Templeman
                                        • steve
                                          ... Thanks for your comments. ... I don t think I made myself clear. If I were to install the software so that it worked, all of it, under linux and a
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Sep 9 6:36 PM
                                            On Monday 08 September 2003 10:47 am, Russell Houlton wrote:
                                            > >>> I need to next get a router so I can connect up DSL when we get it

                                            <snip>

                                            Thanks for your comments.

                                            > >>> allowing members to also connect from home <<<
                                            >
                                            > Can you say "copyright infringement"? Don't even think about publishing
                                            > it. Last I knew web pages are taboo unless you get special permission from
                                            > Church HQ.

                                            I don't think I made myself clear. If I were to install the software so that
                                            it worked, all of it, under linux and a user would merely have to log in,
                                            that would allow me to turn the disktops that I have into just X-terminals
                                            and users could log in with X-terminal/ssh software from home. The programs
                                            would ALL still be running on the server, only the display would show up at
                                            home, or on the local desktops. Did I explain that well enough?

                                            > >>> I understand that the Church uses internet filtering of some kind or
                                            >
                                            > requires
                                            > it, what's the story on that? Would configuring Linux for filtering be
                                            > acceptable? How does one otherwise install filtering on a DSL and/or Cable
                                            > conenction? <<<
                                            >
                                            > They will tell you what to get. In the past they have supplied SonicWalls
                                            > for free, now I'm hearing that they may you pay for a Cisco PIX.

                                            What models are being used?

                                            --

                                            Steve

                                            "Knowledge of the world has its roots in those who dare to be different."
                                            -- Joje Reyes
                                          • Russell Houlton
                                            ... that it worked, all of it, under linux and a user would merely have to log in, that would allow me to turn the disktops that I have into just X-terminals
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Sep 10 1:28 AM
                                              >>> I don't think I made myself clear. If I were to install the software so
                                              that
                                              it worked, all of it, under linux and a user would merely have to log in,
                                              that would allow me to turn the disktops that I have into just X-terminals
                                              and users could log in with X-terminal/ssh software from home.<<<

                                              Thin client in the FHC is fine. Allowing users to use the software from
                                              home is likely a violation of the software and/or data usage license. It's
                                              not the way it was intended to be used. If the church wanted members to use
                                              that software at home they would have placed it on the internet. It's not
                                              an issue of where the software is run, but where it's used.


                                              >>> What models are being used? <<<

                                              I don't know what they are shipping now. I got a SonicWall SOHO3(?). But I
                                              hear on this list other things are shipping now. Anyone else knows?
                                            • Gary Templeman
                                              Another one of those nice, well documented Microsoft features . Gary Templeman ... From: Louis Puster To: FHCTech Listserv Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Sep 10 6:51 PM
                                                Another one of those nice, well documented Microsoft "features".

                                                Gary Templeman

                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: Louis Puster
                                                To: FHCTech Listserv
                                                Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 9:04 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [fhctech] New Server Recommendations


                                                Yes, you are missing something. There is a trick: In Windows 98, go to
                                                properties of Client for Microsoft Networking and select "Quick Logon".
                                                This is the magic bullet that makes the boot-up order not matter because the
                                                network drives are not actually accessed until you try to read from them.
                                                By that time, all have been booted up. I continue to read about people who
                                                have resorted to batch files to map drives because they keep losing them.
                                                We have never had that problem here.
                                              • wlp
                                                Ref. the Quick logon option in the Network logon options area of the Client for Microsoft Networks Properties dialog.
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Sep 10 7:49 PM
                                                  Ref. the Quick logon option in the Network logon options area of the Client for Microsoft Networks Properties dialog.

                                                  http://fhctech.org/fhc/networking/services.htm#configuration

                                                  The other option is: Logon and restore network connections.


                                                  >Another one of those nice, well documented Microsoft "features".
                                                  >
                                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.