Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

New Server Recommendations

Expand Messages
  • steve
    Our family history library is just getting started (we are not an approved center yet but this is a stake center) and has 7 machines running windows 98 with
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 7, 2003
      Our family history library is just getting started (we are not an approved
      center yet but this is a stake center) and has 7 machines running windows 98
      with about 3.2 Gig's each.

      Running on the theory that it is easier to repent than to get permission, I
      added some network cards to some and put 5 of them on a local network with a
      5 port switch. Now these boxes can all print and the employment people, who
      seem to use the room the most nowadays, will be happy. I need to next get a
      router so I can connect up DSL when we get it (assuming we can).

      My next project is to get a server up and running so Family Search can be run
      without swapping CDs. Currently I've been paying for all this myself and
      will continue to do so if necessary, but would like to make a case to the
      stake if I could.

      I'm familiar with windows and can hack at it until I get it right, although I
      loath getting windows 98 and XP systems working together since adding an XP
      machine to my home nextwork of 98 and linux boxes (11 total) complete screws
      up network neighborhood.

      I'm inclined towards Linux but what software/hardward recommendations does
      anyone have?

      I've priced a machine with a 19 inch monitor, 2.5 GHz speed, 512 Meg ram and
      120 Gig hard drive, CD-RW, network cards, etc., etc. for about $800-850
      without OS and I can then load Suse 8.2 Pro. (If I could I would like to run
      eveything on the server and turn the local machines into thin cheap clients
      allowing members to also connect from home, but that's another project
      alltogether.)

      I understand that the Church uses internet filtering of some kind or requires
      it, what's the story on that? Would configuring Linux for filtering be
      acceptable? How does one otherwise install filtering on a DSL and/or Cable
      conenction?

      --

      Steve

      "Knowledge of the world has its roots in those who dare to be different."
      -- Joje Reyes
    • Rick Klemetson
      One point, current collections are over 140 Gigs, so you ll need to plan for multiple drives or one larger than the 120 you ve looked at. Rick Klemetson
      Message 2 of 25 , Sep 7, 2003

        One point, current collections are over 140 Gigs, so you’ll need to plan for multiple drives or one larger than the 120 you’ve looked at.

         

        Rick Klemetson

        Rick@...

        Rick.Klemetson@...

        801.368.1770 Cell

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: steve [mailto:dudescholar@...]
        Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 9:20 PM
        To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [fhctech] New Server Recommendations

         

        Our family history library is just getting started (we are not an approved
        center yet but this is a stake center) and has 7 machines running windows 98
        with about 3.2 Gig's each.

        Running on the theory that it is easier to repent than to get permission, I
        added some network cards to some and put 5 of them on a local network with a
        5 port switch.  Now these boxes can all print and the employment people, who
        seem to use the room the most nowadays, will be happy.  I need to next get a
        router so I can connect up DSL when we get it (assuming we can).

        My next project is to get a server up and running so Family Search can be run
        without swapping CDs.  Currently I've been paying for all this myself and
        will continue to do so if necessary, but would like to make a case to the
        stake if I could.

        I'm familiar with windows and can hack at it until I get it right, although I
        loath getting windows 98 and XP systems working together since adding an XP
        machine to my home nextwork of 98 and linux boxes (11 total) complete screws
        up network neighborhood.

        I'm inclined towards Linux but what software/hardward recommendations does
        anyone have?

        I've priced a machine with a 19 inch monitor, 2.5 GHz speed, 512 Meg ram and
        120 Gig hard drive, CD-RW, network cards, etc., etc. for about $800-850
        without OS and I can then load Suse 8.2 Pro.  (If I could I would like to run
        eveything on the server and turn the local machines into thin cheap clients
        allowing members to also connect from home, but that's another project
        alltogether.)

        I understand that the Church uses internet filtering of some kind or requires
        it, what's the story on that?  Would configuring Linux for filtering be
        acceptable? How does one otherwise install filtering on a DSL and/or Cable
        conenction?

        --

        Steve

        "Knowledge of the world has its roots in those who dare to be different."
          -- Joje Reyes



        Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
        Community email addresses:
          Post message: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
          Subscribe:    fhctech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          Unsubscribe:  fhctech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          List owner:   Rick@...
        Shortcut URL to Yahoo! group page:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fhctech


        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      • Cottrell, Shogo
        If you want to have a consistent infrastructure, I would recommend going to Windows 2000. The requirements are pretty low (CPU a min of P133, although it
        Message 3 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
          If you want to have a consistent infrastructure, I would recommend going to Windows 2000.  The requirements are pretty low (CPU a min of P133, although it won't be fast).   You can get licenses for Win2K through SLC via the Information Systems Order form.
           
          The filtering comes through the church supplied (they may not be supplying it now, based on some ongoing threads, so you'll want to verify) SonicWall firewall.  I think that it does a pretty good job.  At home, I use a Linux box running SquidGuard for Internet filtering and it runs great.  It runs a job nightly that downloads the latest block lists. 
           
          -- Shogo Cottrell
          Cocoa Florida FHC Computer Specialist
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Rick Klemetson [mailto:Rick@...]
          Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:48 PM
          To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [fhctech] New Server Recommendations

          One point, current collections are over 140 Gigs, so you’ll need to plan for multiple drives or one larger than the 120 you’ve looked at.

           

          Rick Klemetson

          Rick@...

          Rick.Klemetson@...

          801.368.1770 Cell

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: steve [mailto:dudescholar@...]
          Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 9:20 PM
          To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [fhctech] New Server Recommendations

           

          Our family history library is just getting started (we are not an approved
          center yet but this is a stake center) and has 7 machines running windows 98
          with about 3.2 Gig's each.

          Running on the theory that it is easier to repent than to get permission, I
          added some network cards to some and put 5 of them on a local network with a
          5 port switch.  Now these boxes can all print and the employment people, who
          seem to use the room the most nowadays, will be happy.  I need to next get a
          router so I can connect up DSL when we get it (assuming we can).

          My next project is to get a server up and running so Family Search can be run
          without swapping CDs.  Currently I've been paying for all this myself and
          will continue to do so if necessary, but would like to make a case to the
          stake if I could.

          I'm familiar with windows and can hack at it until I get it right, although I
          loath getting windows 98 and XP systems working together since adding an XP
          machine to my home nextwork of 98 and linux boxes (11 total) complete screws
          up network neighborhood.

          I'm inclined towards Linux but what software/hardward recommendations does
          anyone have?

          I've priced a machine with a 19 inch monitor, 2.5 GHz speed, 512 Meg ram and
          120 Gig hard drive, CD-RW, network cards, etc., etc. for about $800-850
          without OS and I can then load Suse 8.2 Pro.  (If I could I would like to run
          eveything on the server and turn the local machines into thin cheap clients
          allowing members to also connect from home, but that's another project
          alltogether.)

          I understand that the Church uses internet filtering of some kind or requires
          it, what's the story on that?  Would configuring Linux for filtering be
          acceptable? How does one otherwise install filtering on a DSL and/or Cable
          conenction?

          --

          Steve

          "Knowledge of the world has its roots in those who dare to be different."
            -- Joje Reyes



          Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
          Community email addresses:
            Post message: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
            Subscribe:    fhctech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            Unsubscribe:  fhctech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            List owner:   Rick@...
          Shortcut URL to Yahoo! group page:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fhctech


          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




          Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
          Community email addresses:
            Post message: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
            Subscribe:    fhctech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            Unsubscribe:  fhctech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            List owner:   Rick@...
          Shortcut URL to Yahoo! group page:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fhctech


          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • Cottrell, Shogo
          We have a network running all Win2K boxes. Instead of using the UNC convention, I mapped all of the drives, including the ones for the Vital Records. At the
          Message 4 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
            We have a network running all Win2K boxes.  Instead of using the UNC convention, I mapped all of the drives, including the ones for the Vital Records.  At the command prompt, try:
             
            net use u: \\servername\sharepath /persistent:yes
             
            Then, you can modify the ini files (I don't have my documentation with me, but I think that's what you need to do for the 1851 British Census and the AVR).
             
            Hope this helps.
             
            -- Shogo Cottrell
            Cocoa Florida FHC Computer Specialist
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Tim Rosenlof [mailto:sparky@...]
            Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 9:35 PM
            To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [fhctech] 1851 British Census - Windows 2000

            When I try to launch the 1851 British Census, it brings up the viewer with
            just 1851 British Census and then the program hangs(freezes). I have to use
            the task manager (which say's it's not responding) to stop it.

            I'm using a UNC path to access it from the server

            Austrialian Vital Records works just fine (I have it on the same share,
            different dir of course). Same viewer ?

            Works fine on our WindowsME boxes. .. Moving up to 2000 on all 6 once I get
            the buggies out.

            Suggestions / Thoughts ?

            Tim Rosenlof
            Lehi, Utah



            Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
            Community email addresses:
              Post message: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
              Subscribe:    fhctech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
              Unsubscribe:  fhctech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              List owner:   Rick@...
            Shortcut URL to Yahoo! group page:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fhctech


            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • Gary Templeman
            While our server is running Linux, I would now recommend against it. The main reason being that callings change and people move. Linux is still basically a
            Message 5 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
              While our server is running Linux, I would now recommend against it. The
              main reason being that callings change and people move. Linux is still
              basically a gearhead operating system and it can be difficult to find
              someone with enough knowledge to keep a Linux system up to date even if they
              know PC's really well. Our Linux guru got called as the EQ President so I
              cannot reasonably call on him for any time consuming issues at the FHC
              anymore.

              He had suggested Linux for it's crash resistance and stability when operated
              for long periods. However, we subsequently learned that the manual says the
              computers are not to be operated when the center is unattended, so it gets
              re-booted every day anyway.

              Even my guru took a lot of time getting SAMBA configured correctly to work
              with our Windows boxes. This was pre-internet with static IP's. Since you
              are apparently going to be networked and have a DSL/Cable connection, I
              would suggest keeping the OS's within the same family (Micro$oft), setting
              them all to use DHCP, and let the router assign the IP addresses. I have
              found Windows XP even easier to add to a network under those conditions.

              Gary Templeman

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "steve" <dudescholar@...>
              To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 8:19 PM
              Subject: [fhctech] New Server Recommendations


              > Our family history library is just getting started (we are not an approved
              > center yet but this is a stake center) and has 7 machines running windows
              98
              > with about 3.2 Gig's each.
              >
              > Running on the theory that it is easier to repent than to get permission,
              I
              > added some network cards to some and put 5 of them on a local network with
              a
              > 5 port switch. Now these boxes can all print and the employment people,
              who
              > seem to use the room the most nowadays, will be happy. I need to next get
              a
              > router so I can connect up DSL when we get it (assuming we can).
              >
              > My next project is to get a server up and running so Family Search can be
              run
              > without swapping CDs. Currently I've been paying for all this myself and
              > will continue to do so if necessary, but would like to make a case to the
              > stake if I could.
              >
              > I'm familiar with windows and can hack at it until I get it right,
              although I
              > loath getting windows 98 and XP systems working together since adding an
              XP
              > machine to my home nextwork of 98 and linux boxes (11 total) complete
              screws
              > up network neighborhood.
              >
              > I'm inclined towards Linux but what software/hardward recommendations does
              > anyone have?
              >
              > I've priced a machine with a 19 inch monitor, 2.5 GHz speed, 512 Meg ram
              and
              > 120 Gig hard drive, CD-RW, network cards, etc., etc. for about $800-850
              > without OS and I can then load Suse 8.2 Pro. (If I could I would like to
              run
              > eveything on the server and turn the local machines into thin cheap
              clients
              > allowing members to also connect from home, but that's another project
              > alltogether.)
              >
              > I understand that the Church uses internet filtering of some kind or
              requires
              > it, what's the story on that? Would configuring Linux for filtering be
              > acceptable? How does one otherwise install filtering on a DSL and/or Cable
              > conenction?
              >
              > --
              >
              > Steve
              >
              > "Knowledge of the world has its roots in those who dare to be different."
              > -- Joje Reyes
            • Russell Houlton
              ... (assuming we can).
              Message 6 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
                >>> I need to next get a router so I can connect up DSL when we get it
                (assuming we can). <<<

                The firewall/router will be part of the church-mandated (and maybe supplied)
                items when you get approval to connect to the internet. So wait until you
                get to that step.


                >>> I'm inclined towards Linux but what software/hardward recommendations
                does
                anyone have? <<<

                Out of kindness to whoever replaces you, you might consider sticking to
                Windows. There are a lot more windows people out there then Linux people.
                Some stakes have trouble just finding someone who knows networking much less
                Linux. Once you are an approved center, you can get Win2000 Workstation at
                no cost to you via SLC through the Stake Computer Clerk. While I think
                Linux is in the future, the future isn't here yet.

                >>> 19 inch monitor <<<

                You don't need a 19" on a server. Particularly if the server will not be
                running any end-user software. If you must get it, put it on one of the
                workstations and use the old monitor for the server.

                FamilySearch (DOS) is about dead. The data is 2 years old and will not be
                updated. Everything will be on-line some time in the near future. The up
                and coming "local" app is PRF which will shortly be at 70 CDs. Simply put,
                buy the largest hard drive you can cheaply get. I don't know as I'd worry
                that much about server horsepower since the bulk of what people will do will
                be internet. When you only have a few clients hitting the server, you don't
                need that big a server. Any old clunker of a server is still WAY faster
                then CDs so no one will complain.


                >>> allowing members to also connect from home <<<

                Can you say "copyright infringement"? Don't even think about publishing it.
                Last I knew web pages are taboo unless you get special permission from
                Church HQ.


                >>> I understand that the Church uses internet filtering of some kind or
                requires
                it, what's the story on that? Would configuring Linux for filtering be
                acceptable? How does one otherwise install filtering on a DSL and/or Cable
                conenction? <<<

                They will tell you what to get. In the past they have supplied SonicWalls
                for free, now I'm hearing that they may you pay for a Cisco PIX.
              • wlp
                Steve, Our experience suggests that a more robust and less performance-oriented server would be better suited for FHC use, e.g. 17 monitor, Athlon XP 1800+,
                Message 7 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
                  Steve,

                  Our experience suggests that a more robust and less performance-oriented server would be better suited for FHC use, e.g. 17" monitor, Athlon XP 1800+, 256 MB RAM, 2 x 40 GB (system) and 2 x 200 GB (data) both RAID 1.

                  HTH,

                  Lee


                  >I've priced a machine with a 19 inch monitor, 2.5 GHz speed, 512 Meg ram and
                  >120 Gig hard drive, CD-RW, network cards, etc., etc. for about $800-850
                • Louis Puster
                  You don t need a server at all. Add a large hard drive to a couple of your workstations (or replace the one that is there) and load your CDs onto those HD.
                  Message 8 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
                    You don't need a server at all.  Add a large hard drive to a couple of your workstations (or replace the one that is there) and load your CDs onto those HD.  The Cisco 501 PIX has four outputs, so once you run a cable between it and your switch, you will have ports for all 7 computers.
                     
                    Louis.
                    Knoxville TN FHC

                    *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

                    On 9/7/2003 at 8:19 PM steve wrote:
                    Our family history library is just getting started (we are not an approved
                    center yet but this is a stake center) and has 7 machines running windows 98
                    with about 3.2 Gig's each.

                    Running on the theory that it is easier to repent than to get permission, I
                    added some network cards to some and put 5 of them on a local network with a
                    5 port switch.  Now these boxes can all print and the employment people, who
                    seem to use the room the most nowadays, will be happy.  I need to next get a
                    router so I can connect up DSL when we get it (assuming we can).

                    My next project is to get a server up and running so Family Search can be run
                    without swapping CDs.  Currently I've been paying for all this myself and
                    will continue to do so if necessary, but would like to make a case to the
                    stake if I could.

                    I'm familiar with windows and can hack at it until I get it right, although I
                    loathe getting windows 98 and XP systems working together since adding an XP
                    machine to my home network of 98 and Linux boxes (11 total) complete screws
                    up network neighborhood.

                    I'm inclined towards Linux but what software/hardware recommendations does
                    anyone have?

                    I've priced a machine with a 19 inch monitor, 2.5 GHz speed, 512 Meg ram and
                    120 Gig hard drive, CD-RW, network cards, etc., etc. for about $800-850
                    without OS and I can then load Suse 8.2 Pro.  (If I could I would like to run
                    everything on the server and turn the local machines into thin cheap clients
                    allowing members to also connect from home, but that's another project
                    altogether.)

                    I understand that the Church uses Internet filtering of some kind or requires
                    it, what's the story on that?  Would configuring Linux for filtering be
                    acceptable? How does one otherwise install filtering on a DSL and/or Cable
                    connection?

                    --

                    Steve

                    "Knowledge of the world has its roots in those who dare to be different."
                      -- Joje Reyes
                  • Louis Puster
                    1. I would not recommend installing a RAID HD array. It doubles the HD cost to protect data that is easily restored from the CDROMs. 2. I doubt you will see
                    Message 9 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
                      1.  I would not recommend installing a RAID HD array.  It doubles the HD cost to protect data that is easily restored from the CDROMs.
                      2.  I doubt you will see much difference between a 600 MHz server and a 2.5 GHz server from a workstation.  I think the hard drives will limit the speed of the data transfer.
                       
                      Louis
                      Knoxville TN FHC

                      *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

                      On 9/8/2003 at 12:36 PM wlp wrote:
                      Steve,

                      Our experience suggests that a more robust and less performance-oriented server would be better suited for FHC use, e.g. 17" monitor, Athlon XP 1800+, 256 MB RAM, 2 x 40 GB (system) and 2 x 200 GB (data) both RAID 1.

                      HTH,

                      Lee
                    • Russell Houlton
                      ... and your switch, you will have ports for all 7 computers.
                      Message 10 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
                        >>> The Cisco 501 PIX has four outputs, so once you run a cable between it
                        and your switch, you will have ports for all 7 computers. <<<

                        That does not compute. What am I missing? Or was that a typo? Don't
                        forget a port for a printer.

                        - Russell -
                      • ShogoC
                        They already have a 5 port switch, so add those 5 plus the 4 in the PIX and subtract 2 for the link between the two, you should have 7. ... between it ...
                        Message 11 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
                          They already have a 5 port switch, so add those 5 plus the 4 in the
                          PIX and subtract 2 for the link between the two, you should have 7.

                          :)



                          --- In fhctech@yahoogroups.com, Russell Houlton <R_Houlton@c...>
                          wrote:
                          > >>> The Cisco 501 PIX has four outputs, so once you run a cable
                          between it
                          > and your switch, you will have ports for all 7 computers. <<<
                          >
                          > That does not compute. What am I missing? Or was that a typo?
                          Don't
                          > forget a port for a printer.
                          >
                          > - Russell -
                        • wlp
                          Louis, We believe that in most instances the cost of providing redundant drive capacity is low enough to offset the time and expense required to acquire and
                          Message 12 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
                            Louis,

                            We believe that in most instances the cost of providing redundant drive capacity is low enough to offset the time and expense required to acquire and install a replacement drive and restore data from nearly 250 CD's.

                            Two hundred gigabyte drives are available for $175; the price is decreasing. The question is not whether redundant storage is appropriate for new server installations, it's when.

                            Our experience has been that a server installation is more secure and more maintainable than distributing CD data among patron workstations.

                            Lee

                            >>>> 1. I would not recommend installing a RAID HD array. It doubles the HD cost to protect data that is easily restored from the CDROMs.

                            >> You don't need a server at all. Add a large hard drive to a couple of your workstations (or replace the one that is there) and load your CDs onto those HD.
                          • Russell Houlton
                            ... PIX and subtract 2 for the link between the two, you should have 7.
                            Message 13 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
                              >>> They already have a 5 port switch, so add those 5 plus the 4 in the
                              PIX and subtract 2 for the link between the two, you should have 7. <<<

                              - Russell -


                              Ah!
                            • Russell Houlton
                              ... I must be falling way behind. Family Search CDs + PRF CDs + ???? = 250? - Russell -
                              Message 14 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
                                >>> and restore data from nearly 250 CD's. <<<

                                I must be falling way behind.

                                Family Search CDs + PRF CDs + ???? = 250?


                                - Russell -
                              • wlp
                                FS + PRF + FHRF = 150 GB (ref. http://fhctech.org/fhc/applications/index.htm) 150 GB /600 MB = 250
                                Message 15 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
                                  FS + PRF + FHRF = 150 GB (ref. http://fhctech.org/fhc/applications/index.htm)

                                  150 GB /600 MB = 250


                                  >
                                  >I must be falling way behind.
                                  >
                                  >Family Search CDs + PRF CDs + ???? = 250?
                                  >
                                • Gary Templeman
                                  One problem with having data spread over multiple workstations, at least in the Windows 9x environment, is getting all the mapped drives to come online
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
                                    One problem with having data spread over multiple workstations, at least in
                                    the Windows 9x environment, is getting all the mapped drives to come online
                                    properly. For example, if computer "A" is not all the way up when computer
                                    "B" logs on it doesn't make the connection. Keeping a precise boot order can
                                    be challenging for our often minimally computer literate staff.( I am not a
                                    networking guru however, so I could be missing something simple that
                                    eliminates that issue) There are workarounds, but why bother? Having
                                    everything on one server keeps things a lot simpler for the staff and
                                    problems are easier to troubleshoot by the computer tech.

                                    The "server" does not necessarily need to be a dedicated machine, but if you
                                    can add those large drives to just one existing workstation I think it keeps
                                    the setup cleaner than spreading the data out.

                                    Gary Templeman

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Louis Puster
                                    To: FHCTech Listserv
                                    Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 1:31 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [fhctech] New Server Recommendations


                                    You don't need a server at all. Add a large hard drive to a couple of your
                                    workstations (or replace the one that is there) and load your CDs onto those
                                    HD. The Cisco 501 PIX has four outputs, so once you run a cable between it
                                    and your switch, you will have ports for all 7 computers.

                                    Louis.
                                    Knoxville TN FHC
                                  • Gary Templeman
                                    The IDE RAID cards are pretty cheap now. As long as the case has room for the drives I would certainly go that route. They can be easily added to existing
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
                                      The IDE RAID cards are pretty cheap now. As long as the case has room for
                                      the drives I would certainly go that route. They can be easily added to
                                      existing installations and they automatically copy the data to the new drive
                                      to create the RAID without losing any of the original information.

                                      Gary Templeman

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "wlp" <listlee@...>
                                      To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 3:11 PM
                                      Subject: [fhctech] Re: New Server Recommendations


                                      > Louis,
                                      >
                                      > We believe that in most instances the cost of providing redundant drive
                                      capacity is low enough to offset the time and expense required to acquire
                                      and install a replacement drive and restore data from nearly 250 CD's.
                                      >
                                      > Two hundred gigabyte drives are available for $175; the price is
                                      decreasing. The question is not whether redundant storage is appropriate for
                                      new server installations, it's when.
                                      >
                                      > Our experience has been that a server installation is more secure and more
                                      maintainable than distributing CD data among patron workstations.
                                      >
                                      > Lee
                                      >
                                      > >>>> 1. I would not recommend installing a RAID HD array. It doubles the
                                      HD cost to protect data that is easily restored from the CDROMs.
                                      >
                                      > >> You don't need a server at all. Add a large hard drive to a couple of
                                      your workstations (or replace the one that is there) and load your CDs onto
                                      those HD.
                                      >
                                      > Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
                                      > Community email addresses:
                                      > Post message: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subscribe: fhctech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Unsubscribe: fhctech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      > List owner: Rick@...
                                      > Shortcut URL to Yahoo! group page:
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fhctech
                                      >
                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • steve
                                      ... I currently have 5 of the machines (5 port switch) set up to print both DOS and Windows documents to a printer configured on one of the machines so I don t
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
                                        On Monday 08 September 2003 2:29 pm, Russell Houlto wrote:
                                        > >>> The Cisco 501 PIX has four outputs, so once you run a cable between it
                                        >
                                        > and your switch, you will have ports for all 7 computers. <<<
                                        >
                                        > That does not compute. What am I missing? Or was that a typo? Don't
                                        > forget a port for a printer.
                                        >
                                        > - Russell -

                                        I currently have 5 of the machines (5 port switch) set up to print both DOS
                                        and Windows documents to a printer configured on one of the machines so I
                                        don't need a TCP/IP port for that. The only issues is the computer with the
                                        printer has to be turned on to print from any machine.

                                        --

                                        Steve

                                        "Knowledge of the world has its roots in those who dare to be different."
                                        -- Joje Reyes
                                      • steve
                                        Here is what I figured so far ( I get my basic systems from http://cyberpowerinc.com/home.htm where I usually get a good deal and don t have to buy an OS ) ATX
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
                                          Here is what I figured so far ( I get my basic systems from
                                          http://cyberpowerinc.com/home.htm where I usually get a good deal and don't
                                          have to buy an OS )

                                          ATX MEDIUM TOWER CASE 350 WATT
                                          MOTHERBOARD: ABit NF7 nForce2
                                          ULTRA Chipset 400 FSB AGP 8X w/ LAN, USB2.0, & Audio
                                          AMD Athlon XP-2400+ Processor & AMD CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK
                                          256 MB (256MBx1) PC3200 400MHz DDR MEMORY
                                          First HD - 120GB 7200 RPM ATA 100 HARD DRIVE
                                          Second HD - 120GB 7200 RPM ATA 100 HARD DRIVE
                                          56X CD-ROM
                                          FLOPPY: MITSUMI 1.44 MB FLOPPY DR

                                          No keyboard, mouse, speakers, or monitor are included - I removed them from
                                          the basic package. I'm going to use an extra KVM box I have in the house to
                                          share with another machine in the computer room. Hopefully that will not
                                          confuse anyone who needs to know too much.

                                          The mother board has a basic graphics system and LAN so I don't need to buy
                                          anything else.

                                          Total price including shipping - $498

                                          I would like to play with Linux but pragmatism says to get the MS 2000 Pro
                                          license from the church and use it - I can actually try both ways and see how
                                          it goes. Since this is mostly going to serve up data and perhaps have
                                          printers attached, any reason to have more than 256 Meg of memory on the MS
                                          2000 Pro side?

                                          The computers I have now are 166 Mhz machines so I don't want to use any of
                                          them as a server.

                                          --

                                          Steve

                                          "Knowledge of the world has its roots in those who dare to be different."
                                          -- Joje Reyes
                                        • Louis Puster
                                          Yes, you are missing something. There is a trick: In Windows 98, go to properties of Client for Microsoft Networking and select Quick Logon . This is the
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
                                            Yes, you are missing something.  There is a trick:  In Windows 98, go to properties of Client for Microsoft Networking and select "Quick Logon".  This is the magic bullet that makes the boot-up order not matter because the network drives are not actually accessed until you try to read from them.  By that time, all have been booted up.  I continue to read about people who have resorted to batch files to map drives because they keep losing them.  We have never had that problem here.
                                             
                                            I wish Win 2000 had the "Quick Logon" setting.  But, at least the window that pops up is set up so it is less likely that someone will select to not try to map the drives in the future.
                                             
                                            In our case, we do have all the data on one machine, which we call our server.  However, it is also the workstation used at the desk by the staff and runs Inventory Manager and REFIS.
                                             
                                            Louis.
                                            Knoxville TN FHC

                                            *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

                                            On 9/8/2003 at 7:03 PM Gary Templeman wrote:
                                            One problem with having data spread over multiple workstations, at least in
                                            the Windows 9x environment, is getting all the mapped drives to come online
                                            properly.  For example, if computer "A" is not all the way up when computer
                                            "B" logs on it doesn't make the connection. Keeping a precise boot order can
                                            be challenging for our often minimally computer literate staff.( I am not a
                                            networking guru however, so I could be missing something simple that
                                            eliminates that issue) There are workarounds, but  why bother? Having
                                            everything on one server keeps things a lot simpler for the staff and
                                            problems are easier to troubleshoot by the computer tech.

                                            The "server" does not necessarily need to be a dedicated machine, but if you
                                            can add those large drives to just one existing workstation I think it keeps
                                            the setup cleaner than spreading the data out.

                                            Gary Templeman
                                          • steve
                                            ... Thanks for your comments. ... I don t think I made myself clear. If I were to install the software so that it worked, all of it, under linux and a
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Sep 9, 2003
                                              On Monday 08 September 2003 10:47 am, Russell Houlton wrote:
                                              > >>> I need to next get a router so I can connect up DSL when we get it

                                              <snip>

                                              Thanks for your comments.

                                              > >>> allowing members to also connect from home <<<
                                              >
                                              > Can you say "copyright infringement"? Don't even think about publishing
                                              > it. Last I knew web pages are taboo unless you get special permission from
                                              > Church HQ.

                                              I don't think I made myself clear. If I were to install the software so that
                                              it worked, all of it, under linux and a user would merely have to log in,
                                              that would allow me to turn the disktops that I have into just X-terminals
                                              and users could log in with X-terminal/ssh software from home. The programs
                                              would ALL still be running on the server, only the display would show up at
                                              home, or on the local desktops. Did I explain that well enough?

                                              > >>> I understand that the Church uses internet filtering of some kind or
                                              >
                                              > requires
                                              > it, what's the story on that? Would configuring Linux for filtering be
                                              > acceptable? How does one otherwise install filtering on a DSL and/or Cable
                                              > conenction? <<<
                                              >
                                              > They will tell you what to get. In the past they have supplied SonicWalls
                                              > for free, now I'm hearing that they may you pay for a Cisco PIX.

                                              What models are being used?

                                              --

                                              Steve

                                              "Knowledge of the world has its roots in those who dare to be different."
                                              -- Joje Reyes
                                            • Russell Houlton
                                              ... that it worked, all of it, under linux and a user would merely have to log in, that would allow me to turn the disktops that I have into just X-terminals
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Sep 10, 2003
                                                >>> I don't think I made myself clear. If I were to install the software so
                                                that
                                                it worked, all of it, under linux and a user would merely have to log in,
                                                that would allow me to turn the disktops that I have into just X-terminals
                                                and users could log in with X-terminal/ssh software from home.<<<

                                                Thin client in the FHC is fine. Allowing users to use the software from
                                                home is likely a violation of the software and/or data usage license. It's
                                                not the way it was intended to be used. If the church wanted members to use
                                                that software at home they would have placed it on the internet. It's not
                                                an issue of where the software is run, but where it's used.


                                                >>> What models are being used? <<<

                                                I don't know what they are shipping now. I got a SonicWall SOHO3(?). But I
                                                hear on this list other things are shipping now. Anyone else knows?
                                              • Gary Templeman
                                                Another one of those nice, well documented Microsoft features . Gary Templeman ... From: Louis Puster To: FHCTech Listserv Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Sep 10, 2003
                                                  Another one of those nice, well documented Microsoft "features".

                                                  Gary Templeman

                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: Louis Puster
                                                  To: FHCTech Listserv
                                                  Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 9:04 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [fhctech] New Server Recommendations


                                                  Yes, you are missing something. There is a trick: In Windows 98, go to
                                                  properties of Client for Microsoft Networking and select "Quick Logon".
                                                  This is the magic bullet that makes the boot-up order not matter because the
                                                  network drives are not actually accessed until you try to read from them.
                                                  By that time, all have been booted up. I continue to read about people who
                                                  have resorted to batch files to map drives because they keep losing them.
                                                  We have never had that problem here.
                                                • wlp
                                                  Ref. the Quick logon option in the Network logon options area of the Client for Microsoft Networks Properties dialog.
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Sep 10, 2003
                                                    Ref. the Quick logon option in the Network logon options area of the Client for Microsoft Networks Properties dialog.

                                                    http://fhctech.org/fhc/networking/services.htm#configuration

                                                    The other option is: Logon and restore network connections.


                                                    >Another one of those nice, well documented Microsoft "features".
                                                    >
                                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.