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Missing Ordinances in OI

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  • Maureen
    When the ordinances from the old temple records were automated, all three ordinances were marked as pre-1970. In the case of a baptism and endowment this is
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 17, 2003
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      When the ordinances from the old temple records were automated, all three
      ordinances were marked as "pre-1970." In the case of a baptism and endowment
      this is always true, but the sealing to parents did not always take place.
      If the parents are listed in the record that said "pre-1970" the sealing to
      parents was more than likely done. If there are no parents listed, there was
      no sealing to parents, even though it says "pre-1970."

      Maureen Bryson, AG
      Las Vegas Nevada Temple
    • donbradbury
      Thanks, Maureen. My main problem was to see records in some databases (in my case the DOS OI) that were not reproduced in others (Windows and Internet). Where
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 18, 2003
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        Thanks, Maureen. My main problem was to see records in some databases
        (in my case the DOS OI) that were not reproduced in others (Windows
        and Internet). Where doubts remain over what was actually done, an
        attempted resubmission would be thrown out by the software that
        showed the record. The only way forward would be to use one of the
        other databases/submission processes. When Temple Ready is all-
        Internet (soon?) the process will be less ambiguous - though not
        necessarily more accurate.

        Don


        --- In fhctech@yahoogroups.com, "Maureen" <mbryson@b...> wrote:
        > When the ordinances from the old temple records were automated, all
        three
        > ordinances were marked as "pre-1970." In the case of a baptism and
        endowment
        > this is always true, but the sealing to parents did not always take
        place.
        > If the parents are listed in the record that said "pre-1970" the
        sealing to
        > parents was more than likely done. If there are no parents listed,
        there was
        > no sealing to parents, even though it says "pre-1970."
        >
        > Maureen Bryson, AG
        > Las Vegas Nevada Temple
      • John Vilburn
        Mark, You mentioned that there is a way to get anyone to stop submitting your personal information. I would be very interested in hearing that. I have had a
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 1, 2003
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          Mark,

          You mentioned that there is a way to get anyone to stop submitting your
          personal information. I would be very interested in hearing that. I have had
          a problem in the past with people posting information about living members
          of my family.

          Thanks,
          John

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Mark E. Gower" <famlymanusa@...>
          To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:12 PM
          Subject: [fhctech] Re: Missing Ordinances in OI


          > First-- IGI on CD and the OI are the same things-- the IGI on CD does
          > not show the ordinance information , where the OI does.
          >
          > Second-- To find your complete listing of all ordinances completed, you
          > will have to look at the IGI online at familysearch.org. That is where
          > you should be looking after you have you have used TempleReady, since
          > that only searches the CDs.
          >
          > Third-- You must follow the recommended procedures for clearing names to
          > avoid duplication. That includes a little detective work and not trying
          > to do an exact match search only. Some information may have been
          > incorrect or spelled wrong. You must seek the spirit to know that this
          > is the same person. ( If it looks like an Elephant, sounds like an
          > Elephant, and smells like an Elephant then it is most likely an Elephant.)
          >
          > Fourth-- The date for the ordinance completion and who performed the
          > proxy work is not important-- It is only important that the work be
          > completed in their behalf.
          >
          > Fifth-- A deceased member's Membership record can be corrected by
          > submitting the proper documentation and requesting that it be corrected.
          > Too often, a clerk does not verify the information they send to Salt
          > Lake and it turns out to be incorrect. (Once the record leaves his ward,
          > his responsibility is done. --NOT) He will be judged on the correctness
          > of the records. I spend far more time making corrections to records than
          > I do any other thing.
          >
          > Sixth-- That 95 year rule is for living people ONLY. And nothing else
          > will be posted to the OI, you must use the IGI internet.
          >
          > Seventh-- Submitting any information to the PRF is NOT going to prevent
          > anything. It will not even get information corrected unless someone
          > looks at it and asks questions. Multiple entries in the PRF os the same
          > individual is just more confusing without an explanation.
          >
          > Eighth-- Each individual has a right of privacy, while living, you do
          > not have a right to post information about any living individual without
          > their permission. There is a way to get anyone to stop submitting your
          > personal information-- contact me directly.
          >
          > Ninth-- DO NOT submit any information directly from any source that
          > cannot be verified by a simple document reference-- there is no need to
          > have the document in-hand, as proof.
          >
          > Tenth-- The volunteers that answer your call at Family History Support
          > do not have the answers for everything-- especially concerning
          > membership records. You sometimes need to go to a supervisor or other
          > person in-charge for the correct answer. Often, an answer will sound
          > like policy, but it is not written any anyone else will quote you a
          > different policy.
          >
          > OK- I'm done.
          >
          > Mark E. Gower
          > Mesa, Arizona, USA
          >
          >
          >
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          >
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          >
        • Graham Buckell
          I was recently looking at the parish records for Monks Risborough, Bucks, England. This parish has been covered by the controlled extraction programme up to
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 1, 2003
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            I was recently looking at the parish records for Monks Risborough, Bucks, England. This parish has been covered by the controlled extraction programme up to 1875 with the ordinance work done in Logan in 1981.
             
            I was surprised to find several entries previously located on the CD not in the on-line version.
             
            I also discovered four entries from the parish register for 1813 not on either version!
             
            Regards
             
            Graham Buckell
            Nottingham, England
          • LaKay Ashcroft
            If the ordinance date you are seeking does not appear, and you viewed it on the CD version, please DO NOT submit the person again for temple ordinance work. We
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 1, 2003
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              If the ordinance date you are seeking does not appear, and you viewed it on the CD version, please DO NOT submit the person again for temple ordinance work.
               
              We would be very interested in reviewing the circumstances of these particular situations, please e-mail us at help@... with the specific information regarding the individual and the ordinance information. This information will be evaluated by Church Headquarters.
               
              Thank you,
              La Kay Ashcroft
              Family and Church History Support
               


              >>> g.buckell@... 07/01/03 04:25PM >>>
              I was recently looking at the parish records for Monks Risborough, Bucks, England. This parish has been covered by the controlled extraction programme up to 1875 with the ordinance work done in Logan in 1981.
               
              I was surprised to find several entries previously located on the CD not in the on-line version.
               
              I also discovered four entries from the parish register for 1813 not on either version!
               
              Regards
               
              Graham Buckell
              Nottingham, England


              Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
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            • Laura Scott
              That s why we still keep the IGI fiche, we know that each time it was updated some names got dropped :-( I teach using all 3 forms. ... From: Graham Buckell
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 1, 2003
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                That's why we still keep the IGI fiche, we know that each time
                it was updated some names got dropped  :-(
                I teach using all 3 forms.
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 5:25 PM
                Subject: Re: [fhctech] Re: Missing Ordinances in OI

                I was recently looking at the parish records for Monks Risborough, Bucks, England. This parish has been covered by the controlled extraction programme up to 1875 with the ordinance work done in Logan in 1981.
                 
                I was surprised to find several entries previously located on the CD not in the on-line version.
                 
                I also discovered four entries from the parish register for 1813 not on either version!
                 
                Regards
                 
                Graham Buckell
                Nottingham, England


                Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
                Community email addresses:
                  Post message: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                  Subscribe:    fhctech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  Unsubscribe:  fhctech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  List owner:   Rick@...
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                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              • Connie Bradbury
                Mark: Are you sure about this: From: Mark E. Gower ... Our IGI shows ordinance information if we select LDS Options. C.J. Bradbury
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 1, 2003
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                  Mark:

                  Are you sure about this:

                  From: "Mark E. Gower" <famlymanusa@...>


                  > First-- IGI on CD and the OI are the same things-- the IGI on CD does
                  > not show the ordinance information , where the OI does.
                  >

                  Our IGI shows ordinance information if we select LDS Options.

                  C.J. Bradbury
                • Gary Templeman
                  With the CD s, when you select LDS Options you are accessing the same database as the IGI, but the ordinance information is also shown. When the ordinance
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jul 1, 2003
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                    With the CD's, when you select LDS Options you are accessing the same
                    database as the IGI, but the ordinance information is also shown. When the
                    ordinance information is visible it is technically called the Ordinance
                    Index rather than the IGI. If you browse the CD you will see that there is
                    only one set of data files. It is the software that makes the difference in
                    the information displayed. The main reason (as I understand it) is that
                    many patrons are not Church members so it is less confusing to them to keep
                    the proxy ordinances less obvious. Otherwise all kinds of questions pop up
                    such as, why does someone have a baptism date after they were dead, or,
                    what is an "endowment"? While that potentially can open up some missionary
                    opportunities, not all patrons are prepared to get a proper doctrinal
                    explanation at that time and some would be offended.

                    So the IGI, which is well publicized in classes and magazine articles, is
                    aimed at the general public, while members can use the "back door" of LDS
                    Options to get to the Ordinance Index. Same database, different names and
                    different information displayed for different situations.

                    Much of the confusion is caused by personal habits in usage - some use the
                    phrase IGI in a generic sense even when they are referring to looking up
                    ordinances, while others are more precise and keep the terms separate. Even
                    though the disks and the database is exactly the same as the IGI, the proper
                    terminology when one looks up ordinance information on the CD's is the
                    Ordinance Index. So when someone says they were looking up ordinances on
                    the IGI, they are *technically* wrong, but I can understand what is intended
                    and internally
                    translate that to mean the OI.

                    Gary Templeman

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Connie Bradbury" <bradbury@...>
                    To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:14 PM
                    Subject: Re: [fhctech] Re: Missing Ordinances in OI


                    > Mark:
                    >
                    > Are you sure about this:
                    >
                    > From: "Mark E. Gower" <famlymanusa@...>
                    >
                    >
                    > > First-- IGI on CD and the OI are the same things-- the IGI on CD does
                    > > not show the ordinance information , where the OI does.
                    > >
                    >
                    > Our IGI shows ordinance information if we select LDS Options.
                    >
                    > C.J. Bradbury
                    >
                    >
                    > Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
                    > Community email addresses:
                    > Post message: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subscribe: fhctech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Unsubscribe: fhctech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > List owner: Rick@...
                    > Shortcut URL to Yahoo! group page:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fhctech
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                  • Connie Bradbury
                    Gary: Thanks for the definitive explanation. The use of IGI generically is no doubt just habit. When the LDS Options was added to the FamilySearch database
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jul 2, 2003
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                      Gary:

                      Thanks for the definitive explanation.

                      The use of IGI generically is no doubt just habit. When the LDS Options was
                      added to the FamilySearch database our patrons, even members, still use the
                      "IGI" unless they are doing Temple Ready.

                      In any event, old habits die hard. I still, from time to time say "card
                      catalog" then have to correct myself!!

                      Connie
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Gary Templeman" <gtempleman1@...>
                      To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:42 PM
                      Subject: Re: [fhctech] Re: Missing Ordinances in OI


                      > With the CD's, when you select LDS Options you are accessing the same
                      > database as the IGI, but the ordinance information is also shown. When
                      the
                      > ordinance information is visible it is technically called the Ordinance
                      > Index rather than the IGI. If you browse the CD you will see that there
                      is
                      > only one set of data files. It is the software that makes the difference
                      in
                      > the information displayed. The main reason (as I understand it) is that
                      > many patrons are not Church members so it is less confusing to them to
                      keep
                      > the proxy ordinances less obvious. Otherwise all kinds of questions pop
                      up
                      > such as, why does someone have a baptism date after they were dead, or,
                      > what is an "endowment"? While that potentially can open up some
                      missionary
                      > opportunities, not all patrons are prepared to get a proper doctrinal
                      > explanation at that time and some would be offended.
                      >
                      > So the IGI, which is well publicized in classes and magazine articles, is
                      > aimed at the general public, while members can use the "back door" of LDS
                      > Options to get to the Ordinance Index. Same database, different names and
                      > different information displayed for different situations.
                      >
                      > Much of the confusion is caused by personal habits in usage - some use the
                      > phrase IGI in a generic sense even when they are referring to looking up
                      > ordinances, while others are more precise and keep the terms separate.
                      Even
                      > though the disks and the database is exactly the same as the IGI, the
                      proper
                      > terminology when one looks up ordinance information on the CD's is the
                      > Ordinance Index. So when someone says they were looking up ordinances on
                      > the IGI, they are *technically* wrong, but I can understand what is
                      intended
                      > and internally
                      > translate that to mean the OI.
                      >
                      > Gary Templeman
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Connie Bradbury" <bradbury@...>
                      > To: <fhctech@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:14 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [fhctech] Re: Missing Ordinances in OI
                      >
                      >
                      > > Mark:
                      > >
                      > > Are you sure about this:
                      > >
                      > > From: "Mark E. Gower" <famlymanusa@...>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > First-- IGI on CD and the OI are the same things-- the IGI on CD does
                      > > > not show the ordinance information , where the OI does.
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > Our IGI shows ordinance information if we select LDS Options.
                      > >
                      > > C.J. Bradbury
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
                      > > Community email addresses:
                      > > Post message: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subscribe: fhctech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Unsubscribe: fhctech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > List owner: Rick@...
                      > > Shortcut URL to Yahoo! group page:
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fhctech
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Home Page: http://fhctech.org/
                      > Community email addresses:
                      > Post message: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subscribe: fhctech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > Unsubscribe: fhctech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > List owner: Rick@...
                      > Shortcut URL to Yahoo! group page:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fhctech
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
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