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Re: [fhctech] Accessing new.familysearch.org - VERY SLOW

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  • John M. Shaw
    I m glad others are seeing this slowness, as I see it in at least 2 locations (both with ASA5505). The ping and traceroute is the Church network teams or the
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 15, 2011
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      I'm glad others are seeing this slowness, as I see it in at least 2 locations (both with ASA5505).  The ping and traceroute is the Church network teams or the FH department getting snooty about their sites.  My guess is that they've got a bunch of technology implemented (content redirection, reverse proxies, anti-virus scanning, IPS/IDS etc..) and have a bunch of complexity in the solution.  There is also the tendency for programmers to do things that should be done by these technologies and they are fighting with each other.  They see the network team as a difficult team to work with, so instead of making the changes in the correct place, they make funny code changes to get around it, only causing other issues down the road...  I've seen it many times in my own organization.

      I got this response from one of my tickets today, where I uploaded a network trace of my 30 second load of http://new.familysearch.org

      Thank you for the information.  The latency described is an issue we are currently looking into.  At this time there is no estimated time of resolution.  Support staff and engineers are working on this issue.  This issue seems to be effecting most type 3 locations and co-located sites.  Your information has been added to the master ticket.

      On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 8:31 AM, Travis Morris <tdmorris@...> wrote:
       

      Yes we are having the same problem.  I thought it was a Salt Lake City problem since only Church sits are slow.  Google comes up with no delay.

      Another interesting thing is that the Church sites cannot be pinged or route traced to see where the delay occurs.

      Travis

       

      From: fhctech@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fhctech@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jshawut
      Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:07 PM
      To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [fhctech] Accessing new.familysearch.org - VERY SLOW

       

    • lds skier
      Try using a couple of different DNS servers, manually configured at the client machine(s). Does that speed things up?
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 15, 2011
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        Try using a couple of different DNS servers, manually configured at the client machine(s).  Does that speed things up?
      • James W Anderson
        I posted in the forums about this, see the thread about the same problem in forums.familysearch.org, in the FHC area.   Probably is more net congestion,
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 15, 2011
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          I posted in the forums about this, see the thread about the same problem in forums.familysearch.org, in the FHC area.
           
          Probably is more net congestion, someone there said there that a ticket was created, details in that thread.  

          --- On Mon, 3/14/11, emaegf <emalkire@...> wrote:

          From: emaegf <emalkire@...>
          Subject: [fhctech] Re: Accessing new.familysearch.org - VERY SLOW
          To: fhctech@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 9:41 PM

           
          We had this problem for years when I was clled in Sept 2009. I got then to replace the boosters and the firewall and when that didn't totally correct the problem the Bishop ordered all the computers hardwired. We now have no problems with slow loading sites. He even had the chapel hardwired (sort of there is a 100ft long cable in the library they unroll down the hall to the chapel and hook up so we can watch the feeds from SLC).

          Ema

          --- In fhctech@yahoogroups.com, Russell Hltn <RussellHltn@...> wrote:
          >
          > 1) I'd want the name of the person at GSD who said to bypass the firewall.
          > 2) if yours is the only center complaining of slowness, the obviously some
          > the is wrong with your firewall and it should be replaced. (I know how to
          > play that game too.)
          >
          > I also have seen a message that ISPs that treat HTTP and https differently
          > cause problems.
          >

        • Douglas Danell
          you might want to check and see if you have microsoft search 4.0 on your computers and if so you can try to uninstall the program. I found that to help.
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 15, 2011
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            you might want to check and see if you have microsoft search 4.0 on your computers and if so you can try to uninstall the program. I found that to help.
          • PhilBess@aol.com
            We are experiencing the same SLOW response in the Fort Worth Texas FHC. I don t see the problem at home. I reviewed the thread in the forums. Do I just
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 16, 2011
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              We are experiencing the same SLOW response in the Fort Worth Texas FHC. I don't see the problem at home. I reviewed the thread in the forums. Do I just follow the instructions (given to the Pompano Beach Florida Stake)for each desktop and open a new ticket for each -- or is this a more general problem??

              Phil Besselievre

              --- In fhctech@yahoogroups.com, James W Anderson <genealogy248@...> wrote:
              >
              > I posted in the forums about this, see the thread about the same problem in forums.familysearch.org, in the FHC area.
              >
              > Probably is more net congestion, someone there said there that a ticket was created, details in that thread.
              >
              >
            • John M. Shaw
              It looks like we need to have some trust that the issue is being looked at internally. It is a general problem. What I don t know is when a fix is
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 16, 2011
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                It looks like we need to have some trust that the issue is being looked at internally.  It is a general problem.  What I don't know is when a 'fix' is identified, will there be communication?  Will all firewalls be proactively updated? etc...  or will it be done only as people call, and only if the GSD person knows about the issue.

                On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 8:07 AM, <PhilBess@...> wrote:
                 



                We are experiencing the same SLOW response in the Fort Worth Texas FHC. I don't see the problem at home. I reviewed the thread in the forums. Do I just follow the instructions (given to the Pompano Beach Florida Stake)for each desktop and open a new ticket for each -- or is this a more general problem??

                Phil Besselievre



                --- In fhctech@yahoogroups.com, James W Anderson <genealogy248@...> wrote:
                >
                > I posted in the forums about this, see the thread about the same problem in forums.familysearch.org, in the FHC area.
                >
                > Probably is more net congestion, someone there said there that a ticket was created, details in that thread.
                >
                >




                --
                Regards,

                John Shaw

                “Happiness is the object and design of our existence; and will be the end thereof, if we pursue the path that leads to it; and this path is virtue, uprightness, faithfulness, holiness, and keeping all the commandments of God." - Joseph Smith Jr. in a letter to Nancy Rigdon Dated 11 Apr 1842

                Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.” – Martin Luther King Jr., assassinated on April 4, 1968.

                “Freedom is not the right to do what we want, but what we ought. Let us have faith that right makes might and in that faith let us; to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.” –Abraham Lincoln, assassinated on April 14, 1865.


              • Leonard Plaizier
                I think I have been having the same problem accessing FHC and NEW FamilySearch.org We are having the browser timeout. Many times a refresh with open the site;
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 17, 2011
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                  I think I have been having the same problem accessing FHC and NEW FamilySearch.org
                  We are having the browser timeout. Many times a refresh with open the site; but there are times we can not get the page to open.
                   
                  The LDSaccount sign up site will not complete.  Patrons enter their member number, birthday, and image word than wait.  The image word changes and no error message. It does not move to the next screen.  Could it be timng out?
                   
                  We are a large multi-stake FHC using the Cisco PIX 501 with 23 computers.  We are using IE8 and XP.
                   
                  Last year I talked with support.  They made some changes to the PIX.  Still have the problem.
                  Thanks
                  Leonard
                • John M. Shaw
                  This is exactly what our centers are experiencing as well, no amount of effort on our part (which is considerable), upgrading RAM, reimaging, talking to the
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 18, 2011
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                    This is exactly what our centers are experiencing as well, no amount of effort on our part (which is considerable), upgrading RAM, reimaging, talking to the GSD (not to mention how many thousands of dollars spent to upgrade computers to get around the problem), has been effective - the GSD and the church failed to coorelate the I'm sure hundreds of calls, the GSD has been tweaking firewalls, rescripting, and generally causing thousands of hours of work from us volunteers when the issue has been internal to the church's network all along. 
                     
                    I fell for the 'blame it on the centers' myself, and spent many hours reimaging, upgrading RAM, etc... and we can see from some of the responses on this thread that some people are still looking at this like it is a a center issue, where it clearly has been demonstrated to be a church-network problem.  I have to wonder about the reasons behind this..  I can only think that we are culturally so averse to assiging 'fault' with 'The Church', that it has somehow translated into the world of supporting technology.... questions for another time I think.
                     
                    I am very hopeful we have them looking into the issue now, and we should have resolution soon. 

                    On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Leonard Plaizier <leonard.plaizier@...> wrote:
                     

                    I think I have been having the same problem accessing FHC and NEW FamilySearch.org
                    We are having the browser timeout. Many times a refresh with open the site; but there are times we can not get the page to open.
                     
                    The LDSaccount sign up site will not complete.  Patrons enter their member number, birthday, and image word than wait.  The image word changes and no error message. It does not move to the next screen.  Could it be timng out?
                     
                    We are a large multi-stake FHC using the Cisco PIX 501 with 23 computers.  We are using IE8 and XP.
                     
                    Last year I talked with support.  They made some changes to the PIX.  Still have the problem.
                    Thanks
                    Leonard

                  • Bill Buchanan
                    I was reading about delays caused by IPv4 vs. IPv6 and was wondering if this has anything to do with the problem. I am not a tech, but the symptoms sounded
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 18, 2011
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                      I was reading about delays caused by IPv4 vs. IPv6 and was wondering if this has anything to do with the problem. I am not a tech, but the symptoms sounded familiar.
                       
                      Caution: Bumps in the road to IPv6

                      Bill Buchanan
                      On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 4:48 AM, John M. Shaw <zionssuburb@...> wrote:
                       

                      This is exactly what our centers are experiencing as well, no amount of effort on our part (which is considerable), upgrading RAM, reimaging, talking to the GSD (not to mention how many thousands of dollars spent to upgrade computers to get around the problem), has been effective - the GSD and the church failed to coorelate the I'm sure hundreds of calls, the GSD has been tweaking firewalls, rescripting, and generally causing thousands of hours of work from us volunteers when the issue has been internal to the church's network all along. 
                       
                      I fell for the 'blame it on the centers' myself, and spent many hours reimaging, upgrading RAM, etc... and we can see from some of the responses on this thread that some people are still looking at this like it is a a center issue, where it clearly has been demonstrated to be a church-network problem.  I have to wonder about the reasons behind this..  I can only think that we are culturally so averse to assiging 'fault' with 'The Church', that it has somehow translated into the world of supporting technology.... questions for another time I think.
                       
                      I am very hopeful we have them looking into the issue now, and we should have resolution soon. 

                      On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Leonard Plaizier <leonard.plaizier@...> wrote:
                       

                      I think I have been having the same problem accessing FHC and NEW FamilySearch.org
                      We are having the browser timeout. Many times a refresh with open the site; but there are times we can not get the page to open.
                       
                      The LDSaccount sign up site will not complete.  Patrons enter their member number, birthday, and image word than wait.  The image word changes and no error message. It does not move to the next screen.  Could it be timng out?
                       
                      We are a large multi-stake FHC using the Cisco PIX 501 with 23 computers.  We are using IE8 and XP.
                       
                      Last year I talked with support.  They made some changes to the PIX.  Still have the problem.
                      Thanks
                      Leonard

                    • John M. Shaw
                      Bill, The biggest issue that we ve seen in my work environment is in the following paragraph.. *A problem arises, though, if your router or your ISP s
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 18, 2011
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                        Bill,

                        The biggest issue that we've seen in my work environment is in the following paragraph..

                        A problem arises, though, if your router or your ISP's equipment thinks it can handle IPv6 and really can't. Your PC tries to connect via IPv6 but something gets lost in the communication. You might experience delays of a minute or more while your PC battles with the site's IPv6 stack, can't get through because of intermediary problems, gives up after a while, and finally falls back to IPv4.

                        I've just finished implementing an IPv6 transition solution that will allow us to communicate to either IPv6 or IPv4, we're letting DNS determine how we communicate.  Windows 7 really does act the way the paragraph explains... it can be extremely frustrating.

                        For FHC's I would suggest we disable all IPv6 at our centers.  I'm running XP, but do not have any IPv6 turned on.

                        The issue that is happening at the church is IPv4 related, and is pretty complex.  From the Network trace I took, the FHC computers go through the firewall, but they are still communicating with the Internet IP address for new.familysearch.org  ---  that tells me that our traffic is being routed internally across the vpn, then routed out the church Internet Connection, and then back into new.familysearch.org [and back again] -- With Load Balancers in place, reverse proxies, Anti-Virus scanning, IDS/IPS this is a recipe for disaster.  (I have a work environment with very similar requirements, some of our clients connect to solutions from inside our Data Center [because they have direct connections from their businesses to our data center] and others access the same sites from the Internet)  We've had to put specific infrastructure in place to support this type of connectivity.

                        I'm not sure why we're sending the data across the vpn if it's just going to the Internet Address anyway.  I imagine we need to have the LANDesk traffic, and AV, and FHC specific traffic... anyway, I'm glad they are looking at it, but don't envy the task.  Either they need to change their infrastructure, or they need to go back and retro-update all the firewalls out there....

                        -John 

                        On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Bill Buchanan <genealogistbuchanan@...> wrote:
                         

                        I was reading about delays caused by IPv4 vs. IPv6 and was wondering if this has anything to do with the problem. I am not a tech, but the symptoms sounded familiar.
                         
                        Caution: Bumps in the road to IPv6

                        Bill Buchanan
                        On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 4:48 AM, John M. Shaw <zionssuburb@...> wrote:
                         

                        This is exactly what our centers are experiencing as well, no amount of effort on our part (which is considerable), upgrading RAM, reimaging, talking to the GSD (not to mention how many thousands of dollars spent to upgrade computers to get around the problem), has been effective - the GSD and the church failed to coorelate the I'm sure hundreds of calls, the GSD has been tweaking firewalls, rescripting, and generally causing thousands of hours of work from us volunteers when the issue has been internal to the church's network all along. 
                         
                        I fell for the 'blame it on the centers' myself, and spent many hours reimaging, upgrading RAM, etc... and we can see from some of the responses on this thread that some people are still looking at this like it is a a center issue, where it clearly has been demonstrated to be a church-network problem.  I have to wonder about the reasons behind this..  I can only think that we are culturally so averse to assiging 'fault' with 'The Church', that it has somehow translated into the world of supporting technology.... questions for another time I think.
                         
                        I am very hopeful we have them looking into the issue now, and we should have resolution soon. 

                        On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Leonard Plaizier <leonard.plaizier@...> wrote:
                         

                        I think I have been having the same problem accessing FHC and NEW FamilySearch.org
                        We are having the browser timeout. Many times a refresh with open the site; but there are times we can not get the page to open.
                         
                        The LDSaccount sign up site will not complete.  Patrons enter their member number, birthday, and image word than wait.  The image word changes and no error message. It does not move to the next screen.  Could it be timng out?
                         
                        We are a large multi-stake FHC using the Cisco PIX 501 with 23 computers.  We are using IE8 and XP.
                         
                        Last year I talked with support.  They made some changes to the PIX.  Still have the problem.
                        Thanks
                        Leonard




                        --
                        Regards,

                        John Shaw

                        “Happiness is the object and design of our existence; and will be the end thereof, if we pursue the path that leads to it; and this path is virtue, uprightness, faithfulness, holiness, and keeping all the commandments of God." - Joseph Smith Jr. in a letter to Nancy Rigdon Dated 11 Apr 1842

                        Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.” – Martin Luther King Jr., assassinated on April 4, 1968.

                        “Freedom is not the right to do what we want, but what we ought. Let us have faith that right makes might and in that faith let us; to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.” –Abraham Lincoln, assassinated on April 14, 1865.


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