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Re: [feyerabend-project] Since someone mentioned XP

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  • Dave West
    Attached is the PDF version.
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 22, 2001
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      Attached is the PDF version.





      "Joshua L. Kerievsky" wrote:

      > >Attached is a MS-Word file, a paper that I will be presenting at the XP
      > >Universe conference in July.
      >
      > Dave - could you kindly send an RTF or PDF version of your paper? .DOC files
      > scare my computers. --jk
      >
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    • Jerry Weinberg
      Dave ... A nice argument, very enjoyable read. Not quite right, however, but in the right direction. My anthropologist wife assures me that XP is NOT a
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 22, 2001
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        Dave

        >Attached is the PDF version.

        A nice argument, very enjoyable read.

        Not quite right, however, but in the right direction.

        My anthropologist wife assures me that XP is NOT a culture.

        What is it, then. I'd say it's a "sub-culture wannabe."

        It's definitely embedded in modern urban culture, largely USA. The good
        part about that is that the enculturation process should be much simpler
        than you describe - but still not simple, and still requiring something
        like the residential community that you invoke. It's not clear that
        anyone is ready to step forward and create such a community, though the
        two of us reside in San Miquel, which might be a start.

        I have spent my entire career building software development subcultures,
        up from a human, or humane, point of view. I've had some success, but I
        would never imagine that one of these subcultures can completely replace
        the dominant culture and its major "management-driven" (actually,
        management-dragged) subcultures. And that's okay. We might, like so many
        other subcultures, be satisfied with a nice chunk in which people could
        live and make better things to sell to the dominant culture, as so many
        utopian sub-cultures have done.

        And, make no mistake, XP is a "utopian sub-culture wannabe." Which is
        quite wonderful!

        Thanks,

        Jerry
        ---------------
        ROUNDTABLE ON PROJECT MANAGEMENT: A SHAPE FORUM DIALOGUE
        now available from Dorset House!
        and
        AN INTRODUCTION TO GENERAL SYSTEMS THINKING
        is now available again, at less than half the former Wiley price.
        1-800-DH-BOOKS, or http://www.geraldmweinberg.com
      • Dave West
        Jerry, Thanks for the comments. My anthropologist wife assures me that XP is NOT a culture. What is it, then. I d say it s a sub-culture wannabe. Correct -
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 26, 2001
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          Jerry,

          Thanks for the comments.

          My anthropologist wife assures me that XP is NOT a culture.  What is it, then. I'd say it's a "sub-culture wannabe."

          Correct - it won't be a true culture (sub or otherwise) without some sort of reflective self-identification as such.

          The real point of my assertion is that whatever future XP has it will be as a culture (religion?), not as a method.

          the enculturation process should be much simpler than you describe - but still not simple, and still requiring something like the residential community that you invoke.

          It would certainly start in a much simpler fashion - perhaps black golf shirts with an XP logo.  ;)

          It's not clear that anyone is ready to step forward and create such a community,

          Probably not, although Ken Auer is trying in a very small way - but his efforts are subsumed in his Christian cultural identity and is not really the same thing.

          The MFA in software described by Richard Gabriel also has many of the elements - but notably absent the residential community.

          though the two of us reside in San Miquel, which might be a start.

          Yep, maybe we should buy the monastery just outside of Pecos and start collecting acolytes.

          I would never imagine that one of these subcultures can completely replace the dominant culture and its major "management-driven" (actually, management-dragged) subcultures. And that's okay. We might, like so many other subcultures, be satisfied with a nice chunk in which people could live and make better things to sell to the dominant culture, as so many utopian sub-cultures have done.

          I agree.  From my perspective something between the scale of the Amish and Hutterite communities and the Mormons would be a pretty good goal.

          Davew

        • Jerry Weinberg
          Dave ... I agree, 100%. But it could have a short future as somebody s cash cow, while it s still in the fad stage. ... Now there s a marketing idea worthy of
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 1, 2001
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            Dave
            >My anthropologist wife assures me that XP is NOT a culture. What is it,
            >then. I'd say it's a "sub-culture wannabe."
            >
            >Correct - it won't be a true culture (sub or otherwise) without some sort of
            >reflective self-identification as such.
            >
            >The real point of my assertion is that whatever future XP has it will be as a
            >culture (religion?), not as a method.

            I agree, 100%. But it could have a short future as somebody's cash cow,
            while it's still in the fad stage.
            >
            >the enculturation process should be much simpler than you describe - but
            >still not simple, and still requiring something like the residential
            >community that you invoke.
            >
            >It would certainly start in a much simpler fashion - perhaps black golf
            >shirts with an XP logo. ;)

            Now there's a marketing idea worthy of Microsoft or Apple.
            >
            >It's not clear that anyone is ready to step forward and create such a
            >community,
            >
            >Probably not, although Ken Auer is trying in a very small way - but his
            >efforts are subsumed in his Christian cultural identity and is not really the
            >same thing.
            >
            >The MFA in software described by Richard Gabriel also has many of the
            >elements - but notably absent the residential community.

            Yes, both of these are infected with other agendas. XP is to serve as a
            means to something else - it's a fatal taint.
            >
            >though the two of us reside in San Miquel, which might be a start.
            >
            >Yep, maybe we should buy the monastery just outside of Pecos and start
            >collecting acolytes.

            Yes, it's right down the road, and solar powered. That should count for
            something.
            >
            >I would never imagine that one of these subcultures can completely replace
            >the dominant culture and its major "management-driven" (actually,
            >management-dragged) subcultures. And that's okay. We might, like so many
            >other subcultures, be satisfied with a nice chunk in which people could live
            >and make better things to sell to the dominant culture, as so many utopian
            >sub-cultures have done.
            >
            >I agree. From my perspective something between the scale of the Amish and
            >Hutterite communities and the Mormons would be a pretty good goal.

            That's about right. But no celibacy, okay?

            Jerry
            ---------------
            ROUNDTABLE ON PROJECT MANAGEMENT: A SHAPE FORUM DIALOGUE
            now available from Dorset House!
            and
            AN INTRODUCTION TO GENERAL SYSTEMS THINKING
            is now available again, at less than half the former Wiley price.
            1-800-DH-BOOKS, or http://www.geraldmweinberg.com

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          • Joshua L. Kerievsky
            ... I liked it Dave -- I don t have comments yet -- I need to read it again, but it has got me thinking.... (and wondering what all your statues look like).
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 3, 2001
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              >Attached is the PDF version.

              I liked it Dave -- I don't have comments yet -- I need to read it again, but it
              has got me thinking.... (and wondering what all your statues look like).

              regards,
              jk
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