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Re: Urinary problem - could there be a heart problem?

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  • Tony Clarke
    ... I am pleases to say that after the course of baytril Suki sems to have completely recovered her normal good health. Thanks to all those who offered advice
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 3, 2007
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      --- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com, "Tony
      Clarke" <Tonytclarke@...> wrote:
      >

      > Suki now on 0.2 ml/kg b.i.d baytril for UTI. I am wearing the first
      > two attempts, third time lucky (with ferretone).
      >
      I am pleases to say that after the course of baytril Suki sems to
      have completely recovered her normal good health.

      Thanks to all those who offered advice and suggestions.

      > Tony (not a vet), Sugar and Suki.
      > In memory of Sally and Sue.
      >
    • Tony Clarke
      ... I spoke too soon, after noticing Suki not being as active as normal I retested her urine (vet supplied some test strips). Suki had tested negative for
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 15, 2007
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        --- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com, "Tony
        Clarke" <Tonytclarke@...> wrote:
        >

        > I am pleases to say that after the course of baytril Suki sems to
        > have completely recovered her normal good health.
        >

        I spoke too soon, after noticing Suki not being as active as normal I
        retested her urine (vet supplied some test strips). Suki had tested
        negative for blood and leucocytes 2 days after antibiotic course (10
        days of baytril ending 21 Nov).

        Test 14 Dec.

        Leucocytes 125-500/µL
        Nitrites....... positive
        Protein....... 100-300 mg/dL
        pH............. 5.5
        Blood ........ 80-200 ery/µL (Haemolyzed)
        SG............. 1.030
        Ketone....... negative
        Glucose...... => 100

        No readings for bilirubin, different test strips supplied this time.

        Is this normal for a UTI to start up again and is the blood reading
        consistent with a UTI. Any comments most welcome.

        Back to the vets on Monday.

        Tony (not a vet), Sugar and Suki.
        In memory of Sally and Sue.
      • Sukie Crandall
        That is a very low urine pH. It should be 6.5 to 7.5. Suki s is in the range where cystine stones could form. She may have a genetic susceptibility toward
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 15, 2007
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          That is a very low urine pH. It should be 6.5 to 7.5. Suki's
          is in the range where cystine stones could form.

          She may have a genetic susceptibility toward those in which
          case she will need to be checked for uroliths and kept on a
          diet of no more than 35% protein IF THERE ARE CYSTINE
          STONES , and if that doesn't work then there are meds in an
          old post on cystine stones. Two potential consultants if there
          are cystine stones which need meds: Dr. Tom Kawasaki
          (Maryland?), and Dr. Mike Dutton (New Hampshire?) who I
          believe released a paper on that topic some time back.

          Sukie (not a vet)

          Recommended ferret health links:
          http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrethealth/
          http://ferrethealth.org/archive/
          http://www.afip.org/ferrets/index.html
          http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc/
          http://www.ferretcongress.org/
          http://www.trifl.org/index.shtml
          http://homepage.mac.com/sukie/sukiesferretlinks.html
        • jbmccaughey
          What is that Glucose reading? Equal to or greater than 100 mg/dl? Normally there is very little or no glucose in urine. Has she had bloodwork for a serum
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 16, 2007
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            What is that Glucose reading? Equal to or greater than 100 mg/dl?
            Normally there is very little or no glucose in urine. Has she had
            bloodwork for a serum glucose and kidney values?


            Jaime



            --- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Clarke" <Tonytclarke@...>
            wrote:

            >
            > Test 14 Dec.
            >
            > Leucocytes 125-500/µL
            > Nitrites....... positive
            > Protein....... 100-300 mg/dL
            > pH............. 5.5
            > Blood ........ 80-200 ery/µL (Haemolyzed)
            > SG............. 1.030
            > Ketone....... negative
            > Glucose...... => 100
            >
            > No readings for bilirubin, different test strips supplied this
            time.
            >
            > Is this normal for a UTI to start up again and is the blood
            reading
            > consistent with a UTI. Any comments most welcome.
          • Tony Clarke
            ... That is an error on my part it should have said less than or equal to 100 mg/dL( 5.5 mmol), that is the lowest value on test strip, apart from negative.
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 16, 2007
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              --- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com,
              "jbmccaughey" <JJMcCay@...> wrote:
              >
              > What is that Glucose reading? Equal to or greater than 100 mg/dl?
              > Normally there is very little or no glucose in urine. Has she had
              > bloodwork for a serum glucose and kidney values?
              >
              That is an error on my part it should have said less than or equal to
              100 mg/dL( 5.5 mmol), that is the lowest value on test strip, apart
              from negative.
              The color bands on the strip for negative and 100 are so close the
              actual test could have been either of them to my eyes.

              Tony
            • Patricia Kaczorowski
              Yes, that dip test is consistent with a UTI and you can get blood with a UTI, but I would not treat for UTI at this point without collecting a culture to
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 16, 2007
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                Yes, that dip test is consistent with a UTI and you can get blood with a UTI, but I would not treat for UTI at this point without collecting a culture to confirm while starting meds., A culture is the only way to know for certain is bacterial UTI, what organism and the sensitivity of that organism to antibiotics. I have seen in humans anyway, 'dirty urines' on quick dip but the cuture didn't grow anything and vice versa. So, for the quick one time exam it is fine, and if all goes well, no big deal. But for something recurring or unusual, a culture is a better test at this point.
                Also, it is not 'normal' for any animal to get a UTI. Sometimes if once, just treat. But you have to wonder, why is there a UTI? If true UTI or something else going on. Can be stones, sludge in the bladder, bleeding in Urinary tract, kidney problems leading to the dirty looking urine, instead of just a bladder infection. It could be, especially if male, prostate problem with prostatitis being the infection and not the urine, which is treated a lot longer than just a UTI and also means probably underlying adrenal issues.

                I also agree, if not done, a blood test could help.

                Just some thoughts and comments, I am not a vet.

                Patty



                --- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Clarke" <Tonytclarke@...>
                wrote:

                >
                > Test 14 Dec.
                >
                > Leucocytes 125-500/µL
                > Nitrites....... positive
                > Protein....... 100-300 mg/dL
                > pH............. 5.5
                > Blood ........ 80-200 ery/µL (Haemolyzed)
                > SG............. 1.030
                > Ketone....... negative
                > Glucose...... => 100
                >
                > No readings for bilirubin, different test strips supplied this
                time.
                >
                > Is this normal for a UTI to start up again and is the blood
                reading
                > consistent with a UTI. Any comments most welcome.
              • Tony Clarke
                Suki is back on Baytril for now, I plan to drop off a urine sample at the vets office in the next day or two for culture and/or microscopy. I hadn t isolated
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 17, 2007
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                  Suki is back on Baytril for now, I plan to drop off a urine sample at
                  the vets office in the next day or two for culture and/or microscopy.
                  I hadn't isolated her the night before vets visit so didn't have a
                  sample to take today. Further treatment depends on that and then
                  blood sample if no firm diagnosis.

                  Tony (not a vet), Sugar and Suki.
                  In memory of Sally and Sue.
                • Tony Clarke
                  ... I spoke too soon, after noticing Suki not being as active as normal I retested her urine (vet supplied some test strips). Suki had tested negative for
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 28, 2007
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                    --- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com, "Tony
                    Clarke" <Tonytclarke@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com, "Tony
                    > Clarke" <Tonytclarke@> wrote:

                    I spoke too soon, after noticing Suki not being as active as
                    normal I retested her urine (vet supplied some test strips). Suki had
                    tested negative for blood and leucocytes 2 days after antibiotic
                    course (10 days of baytril ending 21 Nov).
                    >
                    > Test 14 Dec.
                    >
                    > Leucocytes 125-500/µL
                    > Nitrites....... positive
                    > Protein....... 100-300 mg/dL
                    > pH............. 5.5
                    > Blood ........ 80-200 ery/µL (Haemolyzed)
                    > SG............. 1.030
                    > Ketone....... negative
                    > Glucose...... => 100
                    >
                    > No readings for bilirubin, different test strips supplied this time.
                    >
                    > Is this normal for a UTI to start up again and is the blood reading
                    > consistent with a UTI. Any comments most welcome.
                    >
                    > Back to the vets on Monday.
                    >

                    Urine sample left at vets.

                    Baytril course started before actual vet visit. After 14 days of baytril
                    tested again on day 16

                    Leucocytes 125-500/µL
                    Nitrites....... positive
                    Protein....... 300 mg/dL
                    pH............. 5.5
                    Blood ........ 80-200 ery/µL (Haemolyzed)
                    SG............. 1.030
                    Ketone....... negative
                    Glucose...... negative

                    So no difference really, unlike first baytril course. Much more active
                    than before baytril though.
                    Back to the vets again on Monday 31/12. Will take another urine
                    sample.

                    Tony (not a vet), Sugar and Suki.
                    In memory of Sally and Sue.
                  • Tony Clarke
                    ... baytril tested again on day 16 ... Lab results of sample taken 31/12 URINALYSIS (3/01/08) PH.............................6.0
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 14, 2008
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                      --- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com, "Tony
                      Clarke" <Tonytclarke@...> wrote:
                      >

                      > Baytril course started before actual vet visit. After 14 days of
                      baytril tested again on day 16
                      >
                      > Leucocytes 125-500/µL
                      > Nitrites....... positive
                      > Protein....... 300 mg/dL
                      > pH............. 5.5
                      > Blood ........ 80-200 ery/µL (Haemolyzed)
                      > SG............. 1.030
                      > Ketone....... negative
                      > Glucose...... negative
                      >
                      > So no difference really, unlike first baytril course. Much more
                      > active than before baytril though.
                      > Back to the vets again on Monday 31/12. Will take another urine
                      > sample.
                      >
                      Lab results of sample taken 31/12

                      URINALYSIS (3/01/08)
                      PH.............................6.0
                      Protein.......................POSITIVE +
                      Glucose ......................Negative
                      Ketone.......................Negative
                      Urobilinogen...............Negative
                      Bilirubin......................Negative
                      Blood.........................POSITIVE +++
                      Haemoglobin..............POSITIVE ++
                      Specific Gravity..........1.050
                      HPF=per High Power Field
                      Leukocytes..................0-5 /HPF
                      Erythrocytes................5-10 /HPF
                      Casts............................0 /HPF
                      Crystals........................0-5 Struvite
                      ....................................20-30 needle like crystals
                      Epithelial cells.................0-5 /HPF
                      Others..........................Debris ++
                      ....................................Bacteria ++

                      We were unable to identify the needle like crystals based on their
                      morphology

                      Urine Culture
                      ............Enterococcus species......<10^5 organisms/ml
                      (could be cross-contamination from feces in litter tray - Tony)

                      Another sample taken to try to identify chrystals 14/01/08.

                      Suki now seems more alert and active than at anytime since
                      problem started, really back to her normal self.
                      This sample (14/01) was tested with test strip before going to vet
                      and showed all ferret normals, no leukocytes, no blood and no
                      protein. pH still at 6.0 but both ferrets give this same value.

                      Tony (not a vet), Sugar and Suki.
                      In memory of Sally and Sue.
                    • Tony Clarke
                      ... The crystals in Suki s urine have now been identified as Urate (uric acid) but not at a high number, I do not have the actual number until I pick up the
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 18, 2008
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                        --- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com, "Tony
                        Clarke" <Tonytclarke@...> wrote:
                        >
                        The crystals in Suki's urine have now been identified as Urate (uric
                        acid) but not at a high number, I do not have the actual number
                        until I pick up the results from the vet.
                        Does anyone have any experience of hyperuricemia and of its
                        consequent problems or not.
                        I know that it can be the cause of or implicated in (in humans) gout
                        (as low as 6 mg/dL (~357µmol/L), Cardiovascular disease, Diabetes
                        and Metabolic syndrome.
                        I am again unable to access the archives so I can't check on ferret
                        implications

                        Suki's general behaviour/health seem ferret normal to me except for
                        an extra licking/biting at front legs and paws plus extra scratching
                        breaks but neither at great excess and no obvious signs of irritation
                        to the skin .

                        > Tony (not a vet), Sugar and Suki.
                        > In memory of Sally and Sue.
                        >
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