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Re: [4 wk old kitten with badly swollen inner eyelid after 15 days

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  • Rossi Dudrick
    Hi Rena, If the Lysine isn t helping, definitely take her off of it. It can cause cramps and diarrhea in some cats. (Links below) Some cats just can t tolerate
    Message 1 of 5 , May 1, 2004
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      Hi Rena,

      If the Lysine isn't helping, definitely take her off of it. It can cause cramps and diarrhea in some cats. (Links below) Some cats just can't tolerate it. It actually made my cats' Conjunctivitis worse and gave them diarrhea. It's also been proven to stunt growth in puppies and calves - growing animals. (articles & links below). Synthetic supplemental l-Lysine isn't the be all and end all for every cat and long term use can cause renal problems.

      Even though it's appears to stop symptoms externally, it's supresses the amino acid arginine which builds white blood cells necessary for immunity. According to the author of Healing with Whole Foods. Before I'd jump on the popular Lysine bandwagon, I'd so a lot of your own research.


      Arginine is VERY important to feline nutrition. Supplements imbalance what needs to be balanced unless you have an accurate diagnosis of a deficiency!
      ~ Marnie

      1: J Nutr. 1985 Jun;115(6):743-52.


      Antagonism of arginine by excess dietary lysine in the growing dog.

      Czarnecki GL, Hirakawa DA, Baker DH.

      Experiments were conducted with growing English Pointer puppies to examine the effects of ingesting excess lysine. A purified crystalline amino acid basal diet containing 0.40% L-arginine (the arginine requirement for maximal weight gain) and 0.91% L-lysine was fed in all assays. All diets were kept isonitrogenous by the addition of diammonium citrate, and lysine was supplied as L-lysine acetate. Both weight gain and gain/feed were reduced in the presence of 4% excess dietary lysine. However, 1 and 2% excess supplemental lysine had no effect on performance. In a second experiment, a growth response to supplemental arginine was obtained in the presence, but not in the absence, of a growth-depressing level of lysine (4%). Therefore, lysine appeared to depress growth by antagonizing arginine. The mechanism of the lysine-arginine antagonism was examined in a third experiment. Classic signs of arginine deficiency: orotic aciduria, depressed urea formation, hyperammonemia, a reduction in
      weight gain, and emesis were observed in puppies consuming excess lysine but not in their pair-fed controls. Excess lysine ingestion neither inhibited nor induced liver arginase, but it did result in a generalized amino aciduria early in the experiment. In addition, lysine did not appear to affect arginine absorption. Therefore, the mechanism behind the lysine-arginine antagonism in the dog remains to be elucidated.

      Abe et al., May 2001
      ... Although an imbalance occurred when excess lysine was supplemented as L-lysine monohydrochloride, diarrhea occurred almost concurrently with the imbalance. ...
      www.asas.org/jas/abs/2001/a0151337.htm - 5k - Cached - Similar pages





      PNAS -- Abstracts: Smriga and Torii 100 (26): 15370
      ... The effects of oral administration of L-lysine on diarrhea, stress-induced fecal excretion, and 5-HT-induced corticosterone release, tachycardia, and anxiety ...
      www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/100/26/15370 - Similar pages



      JAS -- Abstracts: Abe et al. 79 (5): 1337
      ... Preliminary experiments revealed that a single administration of more than 32 g of lysine as L-lysine monohydrochloride could result in diarrhea, and the ...
      jas.fass.org/cgi/content/abstract/79/5/1337 - Similar pages



      [PDF] Adverse effects of excess lysine in calves
      File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
      ... naturally from their diarrhea before the next morning because we discontinued the scheduled administration of supplemental lysine after diarrhea had occurred. ...
      jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/79/5/1337.pdf - Similar pages
      [ More results from jas.fass.org ]




      The Original Holisticat (TM) Archives -- Lysine
      ... The essential amino acid for cats are Arginine, Histidine, Isoleucine, Methionine, Leucine, Lysine, Phenylalanine, Threonine ... This time two kitten had diarrhea. ...
      www.holisticat.com/lysine_arch1.html - 14k - Cached - Similar pages



      Lysine
      ... In animals, high amounts of lysine have been linked to increased risk ... been reported in humans, though abdominal cramps and transient diarrhea have occasionally ...
      www.healthwell.com/ healthnotes/healthnotes.cfm?ContentID=2878005 - 54k - Cached - Similar pages



      Suzanne's Brand>L-Lysine 500 mg (100 tablets)
      ... though abdominal cramps and transient diarrhea have occasionally been reported at very high (15-40 grams per day) intakes. Lysine supplementation increases the ...
      www.suzannes.com/suzbran500mg1.html - 41k - Cached - Similar pages



      lysine


      ... Side effects are rare with lysine supplements, although a few cases of abdominal cramps and diarrhea have been reported with very high doses (more than 10 ...
      www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/ 1,1525,862,00.html - 26k - Cached - Similar pages




      Giardia in Cats
      ... do you think about treating a cat with both medications - L-Lysine and metronidazole? ... a strong immune system, and unlike the other cat, has no diarrhea at all ...
      www.vetinfo.com/cgiardia.html - 15k - Cached - Similar pages



      L-Lysine, Hydrochloride, qnt: 100 tablets, size: 1000 mg ... Side Affects Most common side affects of Lysine have been abdominal cramps and diarrhea. These have been reported only by those ...
      www.youngagain2000.com/llyshyd10100.html - 55k - Cached - Similar pages

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      Rena <rekal@...> wrote:
      Hello

      I am urgently in need of advice about what to do for a kitten who
      has a badly swollen inner eyelid. It is so swollen that the eye is
      not visible at all and it has been like this for at least a week. I
      can email photos if someone would like to see it.

      The kitten was born on 29th March and the inflammation of the inner
      eyelid started on Friday 16 April and today it is 1 May, so this is
      the 15th day.

      The kitten has been under veterinary care from the onset. On
      Thursday I took her to the vet and he tried to do a bengal stain to
      ascertain if there is a corneal ulcer but he too was unable to see
      the eye. So I am reluctant to use the eyedrops he presecibed to
      reduce the swollen tissues because it contains cortizone.

      I will take her to another vet tomorrow for a second opinion.

      I am in Israel so many of the medications available in Europe and
      North America are not available here.'

      I have spoken to my vet about the use of interferon but he is not
      familiar with it. He said he would look into it, but now, two weeks
      later, still has not done so.

      I am seriously concerned about the welfare of this kitten's eye. She
      is eating and playing and growing normally and holding her own with
      her litter mates. None of the others are showing any symptoms other
      than an occasional sneezing.

      There is no nasal discharge or pus being discharged from the eye.
      It gets a little bit sticky and the eyelids get stuck together but a
      tissue moistened with boiled water cleans that away easily. The
      only other symptom is sneezing.

      I had been applying terramycin for some days and am now using
      Alfasan which is made in Holland containing chloramphenicol and
      vitamin A.

      I have also been giving L-Lysine but it does not seem to be
      helping. (By the way, I have read many people say it is tasteless.
      But I have used tablets which I have crushed into a powder and mixed
      with a little water, and also capsules and used the powder inside.
      But both of those taste TERRIBLE and the cats hate it. Why does my
      L-Lysine taste so bad when so many people maintain it is tasteless?
      I get it from www.puritan.com.)

      I suspect this to be a herpes virus.

      Can anyone PLEASE offer some badly needed advice.

      Thank you.

      Rena




      http://eattheapple.com/kitty/ our kitty cats
      http://www.thensome.com/pethealth.htm
      http://www.thensome.com/herpes.htm
      http://www.thensome.com/herpes.htm
      http://www.thensome.com/felinehealthlinks.htm



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    • Rossi Dudrick
      Hi Rena, I asked a cat health expert on another list. The very simple sea salt eye wash we discussed on RP. Possibly might be useful to dose the nasal
      Message 2 of 5 , May 1, 2004
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        Hi Rena,

        I asked a cat health expert on another list.

        The very simple sea salt eye wash we discussed on RP. Possibly might be useful to dose the nasal passages too; at least until the swelling subsides and her vet can Dx. Eye wash solution posted below - permission to repost here granted.
        Also Eyebright (eurphrasia) may be helpful.

        For all the reasons & scientific study links mentioned in my earlier post (inhibiting growth, etc.), I'd steer clear of Lysine. This is the time when the kitten is establishing it's good gut flora and Lysine at such a tender age will upset those delicate balances. So many kittens get diarrhea at this age anyway...even without synthetic lysine to complicate the process. Is she already on KMS or gruel? Seems a little young to even be weaned yet. There should be no more Lysine in a kitten's diet than what is naturally present in raw meat PERIOD!


        A sterile saline solution is made by adding sea salt to good water - not
        chlorinated or distilled - and boil! Voila'!
        Sterile Saline Solution... just be sure to pour it into a sterile glass
        bottle.

        A heaping Tablespoon of sea salt to a 1/2 cup water should just about do it.
        Additionally you could add some fresh or dried herbs... eyebright or clary
        sage to the brew then strain through an organic coffee filter.


        HTH & let us know how your kitty is doing!

        Keep us posted,

        Rossi





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      • Anyes Moscrip
        It does sound like your kitten has the herpes virus. When we got our 2 orphaned kittens, they were on lysine and echinacea (and an antibiotic eye gel). The
        Message 3 of 5 , May 1, 2004
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          It does sound like your kitten has the herpes virus.
          When we got our 2 orphaned kittens, they were on lysine and echinacea
          (and an antibiotic eye gel). The lysine we use is tasteless; I have
          tasted it myself to see, so it may be your brand is mixed with something
          else. I just mix it with their canned food or a little baby food (meat
          in gravy type without onions).
          Echinacea was a big help. We gave it to them for 2 years straight with
          vet's blessing. When we tried to stop it several times, they had a
          flare up within 48 hrs. When we started it up again, the symptoms
          disappeared in 72 hrs each time. After 2 years, we were able to
          discontinue it without flare ups, only occasionally for one of the 2
          kittens. Now, she has been off of it for a year and is doing well. She
          is much stronger and fatter now, and thriving. I think her immune
          system is finally strong enough to fight the virus. We also have never
          revaccinated any of them as their immune system was already weakened.

          Anyway, I am sure you can find echinacea locally and that should help
          your kitten. We also mixed it with a little baby food. They love the
          taste.

          Anyes and the girls

          Rena wrote:

          >
          >I have also been giving L-Lysine but it does not seem to be
          >helping. (By the way, I have read many people say it is tasteless.
          >But I have used tablets which I have crushed into a powder and mixed
          >with a little water, and also capsules and used the powder inside.
          >But both of those taste TERRIBLE and the cats hate it. Why does my
          >L-Lysine taste so bad when so many people maintain it is tasteless?
          >I get it from www.puritan.com.)
          >
          >I suspect this to be a herpes virus.
          >
          >Can anyone PLEASE offer some badly needed advice.
          >
          >Thank you.
          >
          >Rena
          >
          >
          >
        • rossiwrites
          Dear Anyes, I do agree with you on the Echinacea for immune support. But as for Lysine I d confirm that the kitten even has the herpes virus before giving
          Message 4 of 5 , May 2, 2004
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            Dear Anyes,

            I do agree with you on the Echinacea for immune support. But as for
            Lysine I'd confirm that the kitten even has the herpes virus before
            giving l-Lysine to one so young and causing unnecessary
            complications. It's possible that it's something else. In Rena's
            original email she said that's what she suspected but best to be sure
            first.

            In addition, this little kitten is just making transition to solid
            food. That's hard enough, that's when so many kittens get diarrhea
            complications from coccidia, inhibit the establishment of good gut
            flora etc. that introducing a synthetic foreign substance made in a
            lab often derived from petrochemicals to risk complicating the
            process. They have enough to contend with, besides the fact that
            it's been proven to inhibit growth in other baby animals.

            Rossi

            --- In felineherpes@yahoogroups.com, Anyes Moscrip <anyes@i...> wrote:
            > It does sound like your kitten has the herpes virus.
            > When we got our 2 orphaned kittens, they were on lysine and
            echinacea
            > (and an antibiotic eye gel). The lysine we use is tasteless; I
            have
            > tasted it myself to see, so it may be your brand is mixed with
            something
            > else. I just mix it with their canned food or a little baby food
            (meat
            > in gravy type without onions).
            > Echinacea was a big help. We gave it to them for 2 years straight
            with
            > vet's blessing. When we tried to stop it several times, they had
            a
            > flare up within 48 hrs. When we started it up again, the symptoms
            > disappeared in 72 hrs each time. After 2 years, we were able to
            > discontinue it without flare ups, only occasionally for one of the
            2
            > kittens. Now, she has been off of it for a year and is doing
            well. She
            > is much stronger and fatter now, and thriving. I think her immune
            > system is finally strong enough to fight the virus. We also have
            never
            > revaccinated any of them as their immune system was already
            weakened.
            >
            > Anyway, I am sure you can find echinacea locally and that should
            help
            > your kitten. We also mixed it with a little baby food. They love
            the
            > taste.
            >
            > Anyes and the girls
            >
            > Rena wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >I have also been giving L-Lysine but it does not seem to be
            > >helping. (By the way, I have read many people say it is
            tasteless.
            > >But I have used tablets which I have crushed into a powder and
            mixed
            > >with a little water, and also capsules and used the powder
            inside.
            > >But both of those taste TERRIBLE and the cats hate it. Why does
            my
            > >L-Lysine taste so bad when so many people maintain it is
            tasteless?
            > >I get it from www.puritan.com.)
            > >
            > >I suspect this to be a herpes virus.
            > >
            > >Can anyone PLEASE offer some badly needed advice.
            > >
            > >Thank you.
            > >
            > >Rena
            > >
            > >
            > >
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