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Re: Meatloaf position

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  • lois_051958 <ljones432@earthlink.net>
    Thanks for the info Susan. Yes, Gizmo does lay on his side, sometime he curls up and sometimes stretched out. He usually sits as I described when he s up on
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
      Thanks for the info Susan.

      Yes, Gizmo does lay on his side, sometime he curls up and sometimes
      stretched out. He usually sits as I described when he's up on the
      kitchen counter watching what I am doing.

      What are abducted elbows? DOes that me tucked under?

      Lois
      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan <somnamblst@y...> wrote:
      > Lois,
      >
      > I don't know if it is cause for concern but this is
      > from Emergency Respiratory Assessment
      > http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00100.htm
      >
      > "One should look for the postural manifestations of
      > dyspnea such as an extended neck, abducted elbows,
      > open mouth breathing, an anxious facial expression,
      > increased abdominal movement, and paradoxical
      > abdominal movement. Straightening of the neck and open
      > mouth breathing occur in both dogs and cats, however,
      > some other postural manifestations of more severe
      > dyspnea vary between species. Dogs prefer to stand
      > with abducted elbows, while cats tend to sit in
      > sternal recumbency. Constantly changing body position
      > in cats implies a much worse degree of dyspnea than it
      > does in dogs. Lateral recumbency due to dyspnea is a
      > serious sign in a dog; however, it often means
      > impending respiratory arrest in a cat."
      >
      > Does Gizmo ever sleep on his side?
      >
      >
      > Once I started using the search query "sternal
      > recumbency" I started finding documents pertaining to
      > cardiomyopathy. It seems to also be described as "a
      > preference for sternal recumbancy"
      >
      > Susan
      >
      >
      > --- "lois_051958 <ljones432@e...>"
      > <ljones432@e...> wrote:
      > > I have read a couple of posts regarding the meatloaf
      > > position. What
      > > exactly is the meatloaf position and what does it
      > > indicate?
      > > Gizmo lays alot on his stomach, head up straight and
      > > front and back
      > > legs tucked in. Is that the meatloaf position. Is
      > > this cause for
      > > concern?
      > > Lois
      > >
      > >
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      > >
      > >
      > >
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      > >
      >
      >
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    • lois_051958 <ljones432@earthlink.net>
      This makes sense to me. I have another cat that does not like Gizmo, and frequently hisses at him. He s probably on gaurd because of her. It sounds to me
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
        This makes sense to me. I have another cat that does not like Gizmo,
        and frequently hisses at him. He's probably on gaurd because of her.
        It sounds to me that this is not a position related only to HCM
        kitties, and perhaps Gizmo's HCM has nothing to do with his sitting
        this way?
        Thanks Lynnie
        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Lynnie Henderson
        <TheLinster@s...> wrote:
        > That's it. I call it "being in a ball." In my experience, it
        indicates that
        > the kit is not completely comfortable with what's going on. I
        always just
        > pay some extra attention and tell the kit that everything is okay.
        Usually
        > after a few seconds of love, the kit will relax. It's not a thing
        to be
        > upset about - the kitty just doesn't know what's next so is ready
        to leave
        > quickly if necessary.
        > Lynnie
        >
        > > Gizmo lays alot on his stomach, head up straight and front and
        back
        > > legs tucked in. Is that the meatloaf position. Is this cause for
        > > concern?
      • Lynnie Henderson
        Freckles did this all the time; Punky rarely did. My new kit, Teensy, does it but, so far, Buddy does not. It s a cat thing.
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
          Freckles did this all the time; Punky rarely did. My new kit, Teensy, does
          it but, so far, Buddy does not. It's a cat thing.

          > It sounds to me that this is not a position related only to HCM
          > kitties, and perhaps Gizmo's HCM has nothing to do with his sitting
          > this way?
        • diane
          Before the net, I always believed a meatloaf position meant a happy cat. Although maybe it still does providing they are tucked in nice and tight? When Tim s
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 3, 2003
            Before the net, I always believed a meatloaf position meant a happy
            cat. Although maybe it still does providing they are tucked in nice
            and tight?

            When Tim's first cat developed a tumor in her chest and had fluid in
            her lungs, she could no longer curl up in her tight little ball.

            All of our cats at one time or another will sit in the meatloaf
            position, usually with a very content look on their faces. :)


            Diane


            >This makes sense to me. I have another cat that does not like Gizmo,
            >and frequently hisses at him. He's probably on gaurd because of her.
            >It sounds to me that this is not a position related only to HCM
            >kitties, and perhaps Gizmo's HCM has nothing to do with his sitting
            >this way?
            >Thanks Lynnie
            >--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Lynnie Henderson
            ><TheLinster@s...> wrote:
            >> That's it. I call it "being in a ball." In my experience, it
            >indicates that
            >> the kit is not completely comfortable with what's going on. I
            >always just
            >> pay some extra attention and tell the kit that everything is okay.
            >Usually
            >> after a few seconds of love, the kit will relax. It's not a thing
            >to be
            >> upset about - the kitty just doesn't know what's next so is ready
            >to leave
            >> quickly if necessary.
            >> Lynnie
            >>
            >> > Gizmo lays alot on his stomach, head up straight and front and
            >back
            >> > legs tucked in. Is that the meatloaf position. Is this cause for
            > > > concern?
          • Lynnie Henderson
            Yes, I don t think they necessarily are upset - just not quite sure. I know how to spot it more than I know how to describe it! I think I read something about
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 3, 2003
              Yes, I don't think they necessarily are upset - just not quite sure. I know
              how to spot it more than I know how to describe it! I think I read something
              about it on the net or in a book - I'll check.

              > Before the net, I always believed a meatloaf position meant a happy
              > cat. Although maybe it still does providing they are tucked in nice
              > and tight?
            • Susan
              ... Lois, I think the time to start worrying is when the cat only sits in the sternal recumbancy position. And if you read the Emergency Respiratory Distress
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 3, 2003
                --- "lois_051958 <ljones432@...>"
                <ljones432@...> wrote:
                > Thanks for the info Susan.
                >
                > Yes, Gizmo does lay on his side, sometime he curls
                > up and sometimes
                > stretched out. He usually sits as I described when
                > he's up on the
                > kitchen counter watching what I am doing.
                >
                > What are abducted elbows? DOes that me tucked
                > under?
                >
                > Lois

                Lois,

                I think the time to start worrying is when the cat
                only sits in the sternal recumbancy position. And if
                you read the Emergency Respiratory Distress article
                when a cat goes from sternal to lateral recumbancy
                respiratory arrest could be imminent.

                Susan


                =====
                Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19 months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling

                __________________________________________________
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              • Sally J.Smith <sallymerlin@yahoo.com>
                Greetings all caregivers, While this information about a cats lying position is useful, it may also be terribly and unnecessarily frightening. One must take
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 3, 2003
                  Greetings all caregivers,

                  While this information about a cats lying position is useful, it
                  may also be terribly and unnecessarily frightening. One must take into
                  account more than just the kitties position when resting in trying to
                  assess how dire a kits condition may be.

                  All his 18 1/2 years Muffin often rested/dozed in the "meatlof"
                  position...way before he had any heart conditions at all. My kittens
                  do it now, and they are HCM free.

                  Then, when Muffin was Dxd with HCM, he would still sometimes
                  sit/doze in that position...and would often go from that position to
                  lying on his side! But he was just getting more comfortable!

                  Finally, when he was in congestive heart failure stage, he mostly
                  slept all stretched out on his side, mainly because his belly was
                  often full of fluid.

                  I say this because IF Muffin was still with me and if I was a new
                  person reading this list's postings I would be rather freaked out by
                  now with all these dire warnings about the "meatlof" position!

                  We caregivers need to view the whole cat; does the kitty have a
                  history of sleeping/dozing/meditating in this position? If so, it may
                  just be natural for them. Does the kitty show any other signs of
                  respiratory distress? How far along is the kits CHF? How is the
                  heartrate, eating, drinking...etc. etc. etc...

                  All these factors taken into account en total will need to be
                  evaluated by the one who knows the kitty best, the primary caregiver,
                  and then if you are still concerned, call your vet...but please don't
                  assume that if your kit is dozing in the "meatloaf" position and then
                  happens to roll over on it's side, that it is about to expire!

                  By all means, do pay attention, but keep in mind that many kitties
                  just sleep this way naturally.


                  Best wishes to all

                  Sally


                  --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan <somnamblst@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- "lois_051958 <ljones432@e...>"
                  > <ljones432@e...> wrote:
                  > > Thanks for the info Susan.
                  > >
                  > > Yes, Gizmo does lay on his side, sometime he curls
                  > > up and sometimes
                  > > stretched out. He usually sits as I described when
                  > > he's up on the
                  > > kitchen counter watching what I am doing.
                  > >
                  > > What are abducted elbows? DOes that me tucked
                  > > under?
                  > >
                  > > Lois
                  >
                  > Lois,
                  >
                  > I think the time to start worrying is when the cat
                  > only sits in the sternal recumbancy position. And if
                  > you read the Emergency Respiratory Distress article
                  > when a cat goes from sternal to lateral recumbancy
                  > respiratory arrest could be imminent.
                  >
                  > Susan
                  >
                  >
                  > =====
                  > Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19
                  months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic heart,
                  borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg
                  Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
                  > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                • lois_051958 <ljones432@earthlink.net>
                  Thanks for putting the meatloaf position into perspective. I had never heard of this position before, and assumed it was related to kitties with HCM and was a
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 3, 2003
                    Thanks for putting the meatloaf position into perspective. I had
                    never heard of this position before, and assumed it was related to
                    kitties with HCM and was a becoming concerned about Gizmo sitting
                    that way.
                    Thank you to everyone for enlightening me, I am very relieved.
                    Lois
                    --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Sally J.Smith
                    <sallymerlin@y...>" <sallymerlin@y...> wrote:
                    > Greetings all caregivers,
                    >
                    > While this information about a cats lying position is useful,
                    it
                    > may also be terribly and unnecessarily frightening. One must take
                    into
                    > account more than just the kitties position when resting in trying
                    to
                    > assess how dire a kits condition may be.
                    >
                    > All his 18 1/2 years Muffin often rested/dozed in the "meatlof"
                    > position...way before he had any heart conditions at all. My
                    kittens
                    > do it now, and they are HCM free.
                    >
                    > Then, when Muffin was Dxd with HCM, he would still sometimes
                    > sit/doze in that position...and would often go from that position
                    to
                    > lying on his side! But he was just getting more comfortable!
                    >
                    > Finally, when he was in congestive heart failure stage, he
                    mostly
                    > slept all stretched out on his side, mainly because his belly was
                    > often full of fluid.
                    >
                    > I say this because IF Muffin was still with me and if I was a
                    new
                    > person reading this list's postings I would be rather freaked out
                    by
                    > now with all these dire warnings about the "meatlof" position!
                    >
                    > We caregivers need to view the whole cat; does the kitty have a
                    > history of sleeping/dozing/meditating in this position? If so, it
                    may
                    > just be natural for them. Does the kitty show any other signs of
                    > respiratory distress? How far along is the kits CHF? How is the
                    > heartrate, eating, drinking...etc. etc. etc...
                    >
                    > All these factors taken into account en total will need to be
                    > evaluated by the one who knows the kitty best, the primary
                    caregiver,
                    > and then if you are still concerned, call your vet...but please
                    don't
                    > assume that if your kit is dozing in the "meatloaf" position and
                    then
                    > happens to roll over on it's side, that it is about to expire!
                    >
                    > By all means, do pay attention, but keep in mind that many
                    kitties
                    > just sleep this way naturally.
                    >
                    >
                    > Best wishes to all
                    >
                    > Sally
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan <somnamblst@y...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > --- "lois_051958 <ljones432@e...>"
                    > > <ljones432@e...> wrote:
                    > > > Thanks for the info Susan.
                    > > >
                    > > > Yes, Gizmo does lay on his side, sometime he curls
                    > > > up and sometimes
                    > > > stretched out. He usually sits as I described when
                    > > > he's up on the
                    > > > kitchen counter watching what I am doing.
                    > > >
                    > > > What are abducted elbows? DOes that me tucked
                    > > > under?
                    > > >
                    > > > Lois
                    > >
                    > > Lois,
                    > >
                    > > I think the time to start worrying is when the cat
                    > > only sits in the sternal recumbancy position. And if
                    > > you read the Emergency Respiratory Distress article
                    > > when a cat goes from sternal to lateral recumbancy
                    > > respiratory arrest could be imminent.
                    > >
                    > > Susan
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > =====
                    > > Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19
                    > months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic
                    heart,
                    > borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg
                    > Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling
                    > >
                    > > __________________________________________________
                    > > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
                    > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                  • diane
                    This is a bad example due to the hair, but this is Frisky in the meatloaf position. http://74ghia.com/cats/catpix/frisky/f91/91_2_15.jpg Another not so good
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 3, 2003
                      This is a bad example due to the hair, but this is Frisky in the
                      meatloaf position.

                      http://74ghia.com/cats/catpix/frisky/f91/91_2_15.jpg

                      Another not so good one of Missy:
                      http://74ghia.com/cats/catpix/missy/missy/99_31_5.jpg

                      I swear I have a good one someplace. :)

                      If you look here: http://74ghia.com/cats/html/intro.html there is
                      Zeus in the modified meatloaf on top of our scratching pole.


                      Diane

                      >Thanks for putting the meatloaf position into perspective. I had
                      >never heard of this position before, and assumed it was related to
                      >kitties with HCM and was a becoming concerned about Gizmo sitting
                      >that way.
                      >Thank you to everyone for enlightening me, I am very relieved.
                      >Lois
                      >--- In feline-he
                    • bcowell <bcowell@yahoo.com>
                      Hi Sally, You are right, I was sitting there stressing about cat positions. Bobo lies around in so many strange positions and he always had, but now I worry if
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 3, 2003
                        Hi Sally,
                        You are right, I was sitting there stressing about cat positions.
                        Bobo lies around in so many strange positions and he always had, but
                        now I worry if I see him in a position that might be
                        thought "meatloaf". Thanks for putting it in perspective!
                        Brigitte

                        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Sally J.Smith
                        <sallymerlin@y...>" <sallymerlin@y...> wrote:
                        > Greetings all caregivers,
                        >
                        > While this information about a cats lying position is useful,
                        it
                        > may also be terribly and unnecessarily frightening. One must take
                        into
                        > account more than just the kitties position when resting in trying
                        to
                        > assess how dire a kits condition may be.
                        >
                        > All his 18 1/2 years Muffin often rested/dozed in the "meatlof"
                        > position...way before he had any heart conditions at all. My
                        kittens
                        > do it now, and they are HCM free.
                        >
                        > Then, when Muffin was Dxd with HCM, he would still sometimes
                        > sit/doze in that position...and would often go from that position
                        to
                        > lying on his side! But he was just getting more comfortable!
                        >
                        > Finally, when he was in congestive heart failure stage, he
                        mostly
                        > slept all stretched out on his side, mainly because his belly was
                        > often full of fluid.
                        >
                        > I say this because IF Muffin was still with me and if I was a
                        new
                        > person reading this list's postings I would be rather freaked out
                        by
                        > now with all these dire warnings about the "meatlof" position!
                        >
                        > We caregivers need to view the whole cat; does the kitty have a
                        > history of sleeping/dozing/meditating in this position? If so, it
                        may
                        > just be natural for them. Does the kitty show any other signs of
                        > respiratory distress? How far along is the kits CHF? How is the
                        > heartrate, eating, drinking...etc. etc. etc...
                        >
                        > All these factors taken into account en total will need to be
                        > evaluated by the one who knows the kitty best, the primary
                        caregiver,
                        > and then if you are still concerned, call your vet...but please
                        don't
                        > assume that if your kit is dozing in the "meatloaf" position and
                        then
                        > happens to roll over on it's side, that it is about to expire!
                        >
                        > By all means, do pay attention, but keep in mind that many
                        kitties
                        > just sleep this way naturally.
                        >
                        >
                        > Best wishes to all
                        >
                        > Sally
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan <somnamblst@y...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > --- "lois_051958 <ljones432@e...>"
                        > > <ljones432@e...> wrote:
                        > > > Thanks for the info Susan.
                        > > >
                        > > > Yes, Gizmo does lay on his side, sometime he curls
                        > > > up and sometimes
                        > > > stretched out. He usually sits as I described when
                        > > > he's up on the
                        > > > kitchen counter watching what I am doing.
                        > > >
                        > > > What are abducted elbows? DOes that me tucked
                        > > > under?
                        > > >
                        > > > Lois
                        > >
                        > > Lois,
                        > >
                        > > I think the time to start worrying is when the cat
                        > > only sits in the sternal recumbancy position. And if
                        > > you read the Emergency Respiratory Distress article
                        > > when a cat goes from sternal to lateral recumbancy
                        > > respiratory arrest could be imminent.
                        > >
                        > > Susan
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > =====
                        > > Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19
                        > months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic
                        heart,
                        > borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg
                        > Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling
                        > >
                        > > __________________________________________________
                        > > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
                        > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
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