Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [FH] Food advice for kidneys/HCM/diabetes

Expand Messages
  • Myra DeTate <mdetate@attbi.com>
    Bob is also on lasix. He had CHF at the end of June with lungs filled with fluid. Bob was taking 1/2 12.5mg tab (6.25) twice a day. However, as he is also
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 9, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Bob is also on lasix. He had CHF at the end of June with lungs
      filled with fluid. Bob was taking 1/2 12.5mg tab (6.25) twice a
      day. However, as he is also taking Theophylline once a day, we cut
      one dosage to 1/4 tab as the Theophylline enhances the effects of
      the lasix. Bob does not drink excessively and pees twice a day
      shortly after his pills. I believe the Theophylline has helped to
      keep his breathing normal. He does not breathe heavily even after
      or during exercise. Bob is also taking 2 Meq per day of Potassium
      Gluconate (Tumil-K powder)as lasix also removes potassium and
      potassium is essential for heart rate maintenance. Perhaps Morris
      would do better with twice a day dosing with 1/2 pill. Bob appears
      to be feeling very well, eating, playing, talking and getting into
      lots of general mischief. He goes back for his 7 week echo recheck
      next weekend, so we will see how his heart is doing. His last
      recheck 6 weeks ago showed improvement and even a reduction in heart
      size. Bob's kidney values continue to remain within very normal
      range. Hope this gives you some ideas.

      Lots of Kitty Kisses,
      Myra and Bob

      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "marcijoy2002 <foxfried@h...>"
      <foxfried@h...> wrote:
      > I also have a question about lasix. I brought Morris to the vet
      > Saturday because he had been drinking a lot and peeing outside the
      > box and had also lost weight. I knew it wasn't diabetes since I
      test
      > his blood glucose at home. I suggested that maybe we needed to
      cut
      > down on the lasix, but the vet said to check his bloodwork first.
      He
      > didn't want to compromise his breathing, since his pleural
      effusion
      > was all gone at his last echocardiogram in September, but he still
      is
      > making breathing sounds.
      >
      > It seems to me that if the kidney problem gets worse, the cure is
      > fluids, then giving lasix and fluids at the same time doesn't make
      > sense, since they have opposite effects. Morris' history is that
      he
      > was diagnosed in March with very bad pleural effusion. His only
      > symptom were that he was making loud breathing sounds and crying a
      > lot. (He used to never talk at all.) He was put on 7.5 mg
      diltiazem
      > twice a day and 12.5 mg lasix once a day. He started drinking a
      lot
      > (almost as much as my diabetic cat was drinking when he was
      diagnosed
      > with diabetes, and would not eat solid food, just drink the juice
      > from canned food.) So we reduced the lasix in half, to 6.25 mg a
      day.
      > In September, at his regular check-up, vaccination time, he had
      his
      > second echocardiogram; his pleural efflusion was gone and his
      > condition was pronounced stable and the recommendation was to
      > continue as we had been. We did add a dropper of Pet-tinic
      supplement
      > once a day. I may be wrong, but I though I read somewhere in this
      > forum that as the heart condition improves, you are supposed to
      > reduce the Lasix dose. It doesn't make sense to me to eventually
      be
      > giving Lasix and fluids. How does the Lasix know it is only
      supposed
      > to take out fluid from in and around the lungs?
      > How do the sub-q fluids know they are supposed to go everywhere
      but
      > the lungs?
      > My vet said that if we reduced the lasix we would cut to every
      other
      > day. Do you think that would be dangerous to his breathing?
      > (Actually, I would prefer 3 or 4x a week, as it would be easier to
      > remember if we were giving the pill on the same weekdays every
      week.)
      > Another problem I have is that the K/D is exactly the opposite of
      > what a diabetic should be eating. (Diabetics generally need a high
      > protein diet.) Even though I know that the heart problems and
      kidney
      > problems take precedence over the diabetes, which is not in itself
      > fatal, I really feel bad about giving one cat food that is bad for
      > him so I can make my other cat feel better, especially since my
      > diabetic cat's diabetes is now wonderfully regulated and he is
      doing
      > so well, I'd hate to be making him suffer just for my other cat to
      > feel better. So if I could manage this without going through such
      a
      > drastic diet change as switching to K/D, but maybe just adjusting
      the
      > lasix dose which would not affect my diabetic cat in any way, and
      > perhaps switching to a food that is "in between" K/D and the
      canned
      > Iams both cats are getting now, that would be great.
      >
      >
      > Marcia and Morris
      >
      >
      > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Linda Fischbach"
      <fischbl@e...>
      > wrote:
      > > Here is the url for Feline CRF Support.
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/
      > >
      > > Linda
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: <foxfried@h...>
      > > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 6:32 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [FH] Food advice for kidneys/HCM/diabetes
      > >
      > >
      > > > The chart I have is Noreen's. It was given to me by someone
      from
      > the
      > > heart group. Would you have the url for the CRF group? I have
      the
      > diabetes
      > > charts, of course.
      > > >
      > > > FYI, Morris is acting fine except for the peeing. He had a
      > checkup in
      > > Sept. His lungs were clear of fluid and his cardiomyopathy was
      > stable.
      > > >
      > > > Marcia and Morris
    • marcijoy2002 <foxfried@hotmail.com>
      Since Morris is flooding the box, peeing outside the box, etc., do you think that means he is getting too much lasix? Should he be getting the same dose that
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 9, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        Since Morris is flooding the box, peeing outside the box, etc., do
        you think that means he is getting too much lasix? Should he be
        getting the same dose that he was when his lungs were all full of
        fluid, now that his lungs are clear? If the lasix is causing him to
        lose fluid, if he doesn't have enough fluid built up around his
        lungs, is the lasix just going to cause him to lose fluid elsewhere
        and dehydrate himself? I understand that he needs a maintenance dose
        of lasix to keep the fluid from re-building up, but does he need the
        same dose as when he was first diagnosed and his lungs were
        completely surrounded in fluid. September's echo showed pleural
        effusion completely gone.

        Morris is already getting 1/2 Lasix pill (6.25) once a day. I don't
        think I can split the pills into quarters. They are so small and they
        just break up into a powder. The vet gave me liquid lasix to try in
        the beginning but the dropper was only in 5 mg increments, meaning I
        had to estimate the 6.25 mg dose--not very accurate--and I didn't
        like the fact that it was dissolved in alchol.

        I am curious why Bob was given theophylline as that is an asthma
        medicine and expands the airways so initially can help breathing,
        but also causes rapid heartbeat which doesn't really help a heart
        condition. (Theophylline is related to caffeine.) But since Bob is
        doing so well, I guess you should continue doing what you're doing.

        I am very concerned with Morris' electrolytes.
        Morris gets pet-tinic, which contains potassium sorbate, every day.
        When he had his check-up in Sept., his potassium levels were normal,
        as were his kidney and liver values. He goes back in January, I will
        have this checked again.

        Do you think stress could have caused the sudden decrease in kidney
        function? He was fine 3 months ago. I'm asking because I am going
        through reorganization at work, a lot of people have been laid off, I
        am working 14 hour days. Other stressful, things going on in my home.
        On the diabetes board, we have found that cats often get diagnosed
        with diabetes after a stressful incident. (A move, birth of a child,
        etc.) Tigger developed diabetes right after my dad had a quadruple
        bypass. Also, Morris developed bladder crystals over 10 years ago,
        right after my dog died (she was his surrogate mother.) He never had
        a recurrence after the surgery, so I think the crystals came from
        stress brought on by grief.

        Marcia and Morris


        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Myra DeTate <mdetate@a...>"
        <mdetate@a...> wrote:
        > Bob is also on lasix. He had CHF at the end of June with lungs
        > filled with fluid. Bob was taking 1/2 12.5mg tab (6.25) twice a
        > day. However, as he is also taking Theophylline once a day, we cut
        > one dosage to 1/4 tab as the Theophylline enhances the effects of
        > the lasix. Bob does not drink excessively and pees twice a day
        > shortly after his pills. I believe the Theophylline has helped to
        > keep his breathing normal. He does not breathe heavily even after
        > or during exercise. Bob is also taking 2 Meq per day of Potassium
        > Gluconate (Tumil-K powder)as lasix also removes potassium and
        > potassium is essential for heart rate maintenance. Perhaps Morris
        > would do better with twice a day dosing with 1/2 pill. Bob appears
        > to be feeling very well, eating, playing, talking and getting into
        > lots of general mischief. He goes back for his 7 week echo recheck
        > next weekend, so we will see how his heart is doing. His last
        > recheck 6 weeks ago showed improvement and even a reduction in
        heart
        > size. Bob's kidney values continue to remain within very normal
        > range. Hope this gives you some ideas.
        >
        > Lots of Kitty Kisses,
        > Myra and Bob
        >
        > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "marcijoy2002 <foxfried@h...>"
        > <foxfried@h...> wrote:
        > > I also have a question about lasix. I brought Morris to the vet
        > > Saturday because he had been drinking a lot and peeing outside
        the
        > > box and had also lost weight. I knew it wasn't diabetes since I
        > test
        > > his blood glucose at home. I suggested that maybe we needed to
        > cut
        > > down on the lasix, but the vet said to check his bloodwork first.
        > He
        > > didn't want to compromise his breathing, since his pleural
        > effusion
        > > was all gone at his last echocardiogram in September, but he
        still
        > is
        > > making breathing sounds.
        > >
        > > It seems to me that if the kidney problem gets worse, the cure is
        > > fluids, then giving lasix and fluids at the same time doesn't
        make
        > > sense, since they have opposite effects. Morris' history is that
        > he
        > > was diagnosed in March with very bad pleural effusion. His only
        > > symptom were that he was making loud breathing sounds and crying
        a
        > > lot. (He used to never talk at all.) He was put on 7.5 mg
        > diltiazem
        > > twice a day and 12.5 mg lasix once a day. He started drinking a
        > lot
        > > (almost as much as my diabetic cat was drinking when he was
        > diagnosed
        > > with diabetes, and would not eat solid food, just drink the juice
        > > from canned food.) So we reduced the lasix in half, to 6.25 mg a
        > day.
        > > In September, at his regular check-up, vaccination time, he had
        > his
        > > second echocardiogram; his pleural efflusion was gone and his
        > > condition was pronounced stable and the recommendation was to
        > > continue as we had been. We did add a dropper of Pet-tinic
        > supplement
        > > once a day. I may be wrong, but I though I read somewhere in this
        > > forum that as the heart condition improves, you are supposed to
        > > reduce the Lasix dose. It doesn't make sense to me to eventually
        > be
        > > giving Lasix and fluids. How does the Lasix know it is only
        > supposed
        > > to take out fluid from in and around the lungs?
        > > How do the sub-q fluids know they are supposed to go everywhere
        > but
        > > the lungs?
        > > My vet said that if we reduced the lasix we would cut to every
        > other
        > > day. Do you think that would be dangerous to his breathing?
        > > (Actually, I would prefer 3 or 4x a week, as it would be easier
        to
        > > remember if we were giving the pill on the same weekdays every
        > week.)
        > > Another problem I have is that the K/D is exactly the opposite of
        > > what a diabetic should be eating. (Diabetics generally need a
        high
        > > protein diet.) Even though I know that the heart problems and
        > kidney
        > > problems take precedence over the diabetes, which is not in
        itself
        > > fatal, I really feel bad about giving one cat food that is bad
        for
        > > him so I can make my other cat feel better, especially since my
        > > diabetic cat's diabetes is now wonderfully regulated and he is
        > doing
        > > so well, I'd hate to be making him suffer just for my other cat
        to
        > > feel better. So if I could manage this without going through such
        > a
        > > drastic diet change as switching to K/D, but maybe just adjusting
        > the
        > > lasix dose which would not affect my diabetic cat in any way,
        and
        > > perhaps switching to a food that is "in between" K/D and the
        > canned
        > > Iams both cats are getting now, that would be great.
        > >
        > >
        > > Marcia and Morris
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Linda Fischbach"
        > <fischbl@e...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > Here is the url for Feline CRF Support.
        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/
        > > >
        > > > Linda
        > > >
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: <foxfried@h...>
        > > > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
        > > > Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 6:32 PM
        > > > Subject: Re: [FH] Food advice for kidneys/HCM/diabetes
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > > The chart I have is Noreen's. It was given to me by someone
        > from
        > > the
        > > > heart group. Would you have the url for the CRF group? I have
        > the
        > > diabetes
        > > > charts, of course.
        > > > >
        > > > > FYI, Morris is acting fine except for the peeing. He had a
        > > checkup in
        > > > Sept. His lungs were clear of fluid and his cardiomyopathy was
        > > stable.
        > > > >
        > > > > Marcia and Morris
      • Myra DeTate <mdetate@sbcglobal.net>
        I don t have any trouble splitting Bob s Furosemide (Lasix) into quarters - they don t splinter or go into powder. Bob was given Theophylline because there
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 9, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          I don't have any trouble splitting Bob's Furosemide (Lasix) into
          quarters - they don't splinter or go into powder. Bob was given
          Theophylline because there was some indication on his xrays of
          bronchial something which may indicate asthma. My vet splits Bob's
          pills into 1/2 and then I have a pill splitter that I use to split
          into 1/4. I don't know about the dosages because Bob's lungs were
          clear when he came home from ICU and his vet doesn't recommend
          changing anything right now since Bob is doing so well. He said if
          Bob's kidney values change then we would consider changing the Lasix
          dose. Bob does not really "flood" his box, but it certainly is more
          pee than before the lasix. If Morris is dehydrated then you should
          consider reducing the dose. I know it seems counterproductive to
          give fluids and lasix, but the fluids don't necessarily go directly
          to the lungs. The fluid gathering in his lungs is from valve
          leakage, and the rest of his body needs the fluids to function. I
          give Bob his Theophylline in his morning pills because Bob sleeps
          all morning and I figured if his heart rate was elevated, at least
          it would be during his slowest time for activity. It certainly does
          not keep him up, lol. I know Bob has probably had many more echos
          and blood workups done than most of the kitties in this group. He
          got echo rechecks each month following his CHF and now we have gone
          to 6 weeks this time and last time. The rechecks are $100, but I
          think it helps to keep a close watch on his condition.

          Lots of Kitty Kisses,
          Myra and Bob

          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "marcijoy2002 <foxfried@h...>"
          <foxfried@h...> wrote:
          > Since Morris is flooding the box, peeing outside the box, etc., do
          > you think that means he is getting too much lasix? Should he be
          > getting the same dose that he was when his lungs were all full of
          > fluid, now that his lungs are clear? If the lasix is causing him
          to
          > lose fluid, if he doesn't have enough fluid built up around his
          > lungs, is the lasix just going to cause him to lose fluid
          elsewhere
          > and dehydrate himself? I understand that he needs a maintenance
          dose
          > of lasix to keep the fluid from re-building up, but does he need
          the
          > same dose as when he was first diagnosed and his lungs were
          > completely surrounded in fluid. September's echo showed pleural
          > effusion completely gone.
          >
          > Morris is already getting 1/2 Lasix pill (6.25) once a day. I
          don't
          > think I can split the pills into quarters. They are so small and
          they
          > just break up into a powder. The vet gave me liquid lasix to try
          in
          > the beginning but the dropper was only in 5 mg increments, meaning
          I
          > had to estimate the 6.25 mg dose--not very accurate--and I didn't
          > like the fact that it was dissolved in alchol.
          >
          > I am curious why Bob was given theophylline as that is an asthma
          > medicine and expands the airways so initially can help breathing,
          > but also causes rapid heartbeat which doesn't really help a heart
          > condition. (Theophylline is related to caffeine.) But since Bob
          is
          > doing so well, I guess you should continue doing what you're doing.
          >
          > I am very concerned with Morris' electrolytes.
          > Morris gets pet-tinic, which contains potassium sorbate, every
          day.
          > When he had his check-up in Sept., his potassium levels were
          normal,
          > as were his kidney and liver values. He goes back in January, I
          will
          > have this checked again.
          >
          > Do you think stress could have caused the sudden decrease in
          kidney
          > function? He was fine 3 months ago. I'm asking because I am going
          > through reorganization at work, a lot of people have been laid
          off, I
          > am working 14 hour days. Other stressful, things going on in my
          home.
          > On the diabetes board, we have found that cats often get diagnosed
          > with diabetes after a stressful incident. (A move, birth of a
          child,
          > etc.) Tigger developed diabetes right after my dad had a quadruple
          > bypass. Also, Morris developed bladder crystals over 10 years
          ago,
          > right after my dog died (she was his surrogate mother.) He never
          had
          > a recurrence after the surgery, so I think the crystals came from
          > stress brought on by grief.
          >
          > Marcia and Morris
          >
          >
          > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Myra DeTate <mdetate@a...>"
          > <mdetate@a...> wrote:
          > > Bob is also on lasix. He had CHF at the end of June with lungs
          > > filled with fluid. Bob was taking 1/2 12.5mg tab (6.25) twice a
          > > day. However, as he is also taking Theophylline once a day, we
          cut
          > > one dosage to 1/4 tab as the Theophylline enhances the effects
          of
          > > the lasix. Bob does not drink excessively and pees twice a day
          > > shortly after his pills. I believe the Theophylline has helped
          to
          > > keep his breathing normal. He does not breathe heavily even
          after
          > > or during exercise. Bob is also taking 2 Meq per day of
          Potassium
          > > Gluconate (Tumil-K powder)as lasix also removes potassium and
          > > potassium is essential for heart rate maintenance. Perhaps
          Morris
          > > would do better with twice a day dosing with 1/2 pill. Bob
          appears
          > > to be feeling very well, eating, playing, talking and getting
          into
          > > lots of general mischief. He goes back for his 7 week echo
          recheck
          > > next weekend, so we will see how his heart is doing. His last
          > > recheck 6 weeks ago showed improvement and even a reduction in
          > heart
          > > size. Bob's kidney values continue to remain within very normal
          > > range. Hope this gives you some ideas.
          > >
          > > Lots of Kitty Kisses,
          > > Myra and Bob
          > >
          > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "marcijoy2002
          <foxfried@h...>"
          > > <foxfried@h...> wrote:
          > > > I also have a question about lasix. I brought Morris to the
          vet
          > > > Saturday because he had been drinking a lot and peeing outside
          > the
          > > > box and had also lost weight. I knew it wasn't diabetes since
          I
          > > test
          > > > his blood glucose at home. I suggested that maybe we needed
          to
          > > cut
          > > > down on the lasix, but the vet said to check his bloodwork
          first.
          > > He
          > > > didn't want to compromise his breathing, since his pleural
          > > effusion
          > > > was all gone at his last echocardiogram in September, but he
          > still
          > > is
          > > > making breathing sounds.
          > > >
          > > > It seems to me that if the kidney problem gets worse, the cure
          is
          > > > fluids, then giving lasix and fluids at the same time doesn't
          > make
          > > > sense, since they have opposite effects. Morris' history is
          that
          > > he
          > > > was diagnosed in March with very bad pleural effusion. His
          only
          > > > symptom were that he was making loud breathing sounds and
          crying
          > a
          > > > lot. (He used to never talk at all.) He was put on 7.5 mg
          > > diltiazem
          > > > twice a day and 12.5 mg lasix once a day. He started drinking
          a
          > > lot
          > > > (almost as much as my diabetic cat was drinking when he was
          > > diagnosed
          > > > with diabetes, and would not eat solid food, just drink the
          juice
          > > > from canned food.) So we reduced the lasix in half, to 6.25 mg
          a
          > > day.
          > > > In September, at his regular check-up, vaccination time, he
          had
          > > his
          > > > second echocardiogram; his pleural efflusion was gone and his
          > > > condition was pronounced stable and the recommendation was to
          > > > continue as we had been. We did add a dropper of Pet-tinic
          > > supplement
          > > > once a day. I may be wrong, but I though I read somewhere in
          this
          > > > forum that as the heart condition improves, you are supposed
          to
          > > > reduce the Lasix dose. It doesn't make sense to me to
          eventually
          > > be
          > > > giving Lasix and fluids. How does the Lasix know it is only
          > > supposed
          > > > to take out fluid from in and around the lungs?
          > > > How do the sub-q fluids know they are supposed to go
          everywhere
          > > but
          > > > the lungs?
          > > > My vet said that if we reduced the lasix we would cut to every
          > > other
          > > > day. Do you think that would be dangerous to his breathing?
          > > > (Actually, I would prefer 3 or 4x a week, as it would be
          easier
          > to
          > > > remember if we were giving the pill on the same weekdays every
          > > week.)
          > > > Another problem I have is that the K/D is exactly the opposite
          of
          > > > what a diabetic should be eating. (Diabetics generally need a
          > high
          > > > protein diet.) Even though I know that the heart problems and
          > > kidney
          > > > problems take precedence over the diabetes, which is not in
          > itself
          > > > fatal, I really feel bad about giving one cat food that is bad
          > for
          > > > him so I can make my other cat feel better, especially since
          my
          > > > diabetic cat's diabetes is now wonderfully regulated and he is
          > > doing
          > > > so well, I'd hate to be making him suffer just for my other
          cat
          > to
          > > > feel better. So if I could manage this without going through
          such
          > > a
          > > > drastic diet change as switching to K/D, but maybe just
          adjusting
          > > the
          > > > lasix dose which would not affect my diabetic cat in any way,
          > and
          > > > perhaps switching to a food that is "in between" K/D and the
          > > canned
          > > > Iams both cats are getting now, that would be great.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Marcia and Morris
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Linda Fischbach"
          > > <fischbl@e...>
          > > > wrote:
          > > > > Here is the url for Feline CRF Support.
          > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/
          > > > >
          > > > > Linda
          > > > >
          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > > From: <foxfried@h...>
          > > > > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
          > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 6:32 PM
          > > > > Subject: Re: [FH] Food advice for kidneys/HCM/diabetes
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > > The chart I have is Noreen's. It was given to me by
          someone
          > > from
          > > > the
          > > > > heart group. Would you have the url for the CRF group? I
          have
          > > the
          > > > diabetes
          > > > > charts, of course.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > FYI, Morris is acting fine except for the peeing. He had
          a
          > > > checkup in
          > > > > Sept. His lungs were clear of fluid and his cardiomyopathy
          was
          > > > stable.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Marcia and Morris
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.