Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Diltiazem--Voula

Expand Messages
  • Laura Penny
    Voula, Diltiazem is used for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. It is a calcium channel blocker (whatever that is). It has virtually halted the progression of HCM in
    Message 1 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
      Voula,

      Diltiazem is used for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. It is a calcium channel
      blocker (whatever that is). It has virtually halted the progression of HCM
      in my two cats over the past 3 years. We don't believe it has affected
      either cats' kidneys. Their values are creeping up to high normal or
      slightly above, but they're both 16, so I'd expect that anyway.

      Atenolol needs to be used with caution in any cat with asthma, although I
      don't think you said Pebbles has that.

      Laura

      -----Original Message-----
      From: catwoman1@... <catwoman1@...>
      To: feline-heart@egroups.com <feline-heart@egroups.com>
      Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 8:22 AM
      Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Kassy's BP is great!


      >Dear Jonathan,
      > I was looking up some old posts and trying to get some
      >information on propranolol. It is not the same as atenolol as I
      >thought earlier. What is diltiazem used for? And do you know of
      >effects on kidneys with either or any of these drugs?
      >Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.
      >
    • Laura Penny
      I don t believe diltiazem lowers BP because my cats both had high BP (200) after taking it for 2 years. Now they take Norvasc, too (plus Kassy takes Tapazole),
      Message 2 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
        I don't believe diltiazem lowers BP because my cats both had high BP (200)
        after taking it for 2 years. Now they take Norvasc, too (plus Kassy takes
        Tapazole), and the BP is controlled.

        I read that diltiazem is supposed to lower heart rate, but it didn't in my
        cats. They go from 200 when they're nervous to 150 when they're not.

        Asthma symptoms are the same as in people. If Pebbles hasn't shown any
        symptoms by now, I doubt she has it.

        BTW, what is her left atrium measurement? That impacts the clot risk. We
        aren't doing aspirin because my cats' measurements have gone back to normal,
        but we will probably do one baby aspirin twice a week because Lucky was just
        diagnosed with spinal arthritis.

        Laura



        Laura

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Voula Augerinos <catwoman1@...>
        To: feline-heart@egroups.com <feline-heart@egroups.com>
        Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 9:10 AM
        Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Diltiazem--Voula


        >Dear Laura,
        > thank you for your reply. Is Diltiazem a blood pressure lowering
        >medication? Pebbles has never shown any asthma symptoms. I wonder what they
        >are in cats? The same as in people? Did either of your cats have high BP.
        >Sorry Laura, my old posts are on my old computer. One of the main purposes
        >for the propranolol was to lower Pebbles' heart rate.
        >Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.
        >
        >----------
        >> From: Laura Penny <lepenny@...>
        >> To: feline-heart@egroups.com
        >> Subject: [feline-heart] Diltiazem--Voula
        >> Date: Thursday, 19 October , 2000 11:07 PM
        >>
        >> Voula,
        >>
        >> Diltiazem is used for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. It is a calcium
        >channel
        >> blocker (whatever that is). It has virtually halted the progression of
        >HCM
        >> in my two cats over the past 3 years. We don't believe it has affected
        >> either cats' kidneys. Their values are creeping up to high normal or
        >> slightly above, but they're both 16, so I'd expect that anyway.
        >>
        >> Atenolol needs to be used with caution in any cat with asthma, although I
        >> don't think you said Pebbles has that.
        >>
        >> Laura
        >>
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: catwoman1@... <catwoman1@...>
        >> To: feline-heart@egroups.com <feline-heart@egroups.com>
        >> Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 8:22 AM
        >> Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Kassy's BP is great!
        >>
        >>
        >> >Dear Jonathan,
        >> > I was looking up some old posts and trying to get some
        >> >information on propranolol. It is not the same as atenolol as I
        >> >thought earlier. What is diltiazem used for? And do you know of
        >> >effects on kidneys with either or any of these drugs?
        >> >Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.
        >> >
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >> feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        >
        >
        >
      • Voula Augerinos
        Dear Laura, thank you for your reply. Is Diltiazem a blood pressure lowering medication? Pebbles has never shown any asthma symptoms. I wonder what they are in
        Message 3 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
          Dear Laura,
          thank you for your reply. Is Diltiazem a blood pressure lowering
          medication? Pebbles has never shown any asthma symptoms. I wonder what they
          are in cats? The same as in people? Did either of your cats have high BP.
          Sorry Laura, my old posts are on my old computer. One of the main purposes
          for the propranolol was to lower Pebbles' heart rate.
          Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.

          ----------
          > From: Laura Penny <lepenny@...>
          > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
          > Subject: [feline-heart] Diltiazem--Voula
          > Date: Thursday, 19 October , 2000 11:07 PM
          >
          > Voula,
          >
          > Diltiazem is used for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. It is a calcium
          channel
          > blocker (whatever that is). It has virtually halted the progression of
          HCM
          > in my two cats over the past 3 years. We don't believe it has affected
          > either cats' kidneys. Their values are creeping up to high normal or
          > slightly above, but they're both 16, so I'd expect that anyway.
          >
          > Atenolol needs to be used with caution in any cat with asthma, although I
          > don't think you said Pebbles has that.
          >
          > Laura
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: catwoman1@... <catwoman1@...>
          > To: feline-heart@egroups.com <feline-heart@egroups.com>
          > Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 8:22 AM
          > Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Kassy's BP is great!
          >
          >
          > >Dear Jonathan,
          > > I was looking up some old posts and trying to get some
          > >information on propranolol. It is not the same as atenolol as I
          > >thought earlier. What is diltiazem used for? And do you know of
          > >effects on kidneys with either or any of these drugs?
          > >Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          >
          >
        • Jonathan Rosenberg
          ... Ventricle? -- JR & Tabby (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Lynx
          Message 4 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Voula Augerinos [mailto:catwoman1@...]
            > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 10:58 AM
            > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Diltiazem--Voula

            > oh dear I am not sure! I remember the vet said the left
            > atrium and the left something else. One was not too bad,
            > the other he said the wall was quite thickened and the passage
            > through that was narrowed. Maybe if you tell me what the other
            > might be if you know, maybe I will remember.

            Ventricle?

            --
            JR
            & Tabby (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Lynx
          • Anyes Moscrip
            ... This may depend on the individual cat. We had very good results with Diltiazem both in reducing BP (was 220/230 before starting it) and controlling the
            Message 5 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
              Laura Penny wrote:

              > I don't believe diltiazem lowers BP because my cats both had high BP (200)
              > after taking it for 2 years. Now they take Norvasc, too (plus Kassy takes
              > Tapazole), and the BP is controlled.
              >

              This may depend on the individual cat. We had very good results with Diltiazem
              both in reducing BP (was 220/230 before starting it) and controlling the HCM.
              It also did not seem to hurt the kidneys as the kidneys levels immediately
              improved and general health improved dramatically. Lucie was able to run, jump,
              go up and down the stairs again which she had not done in months, and her
              kidneys got improved blood circulation in the process.

              I hope that helps,
              Anyes, angel Lucie, Georgina and Angelica
            • Jonathan Rosenberg
              ... The left atrium receives blood from the lungs & pumps it to the left ventricle, where it is pumped to ther body. Beyond that, I m pretty much out of my
              Message 6 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Voula Augerinos [mailto:catwoman1@...]
                > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 11:26 AM
                > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Diltiazem--Voula

                > YES! It was ventricle. I THINK the left ventricle was not
                > bad, or then again was it the atrium! Confusion reigns. Any
                > insights?

                The left atrium receives blood from the lungs & pumps it to the left
                ventricle, where it is pumped to ther body. Beyond that, I'm pretty much
                out of my depth.

                As I recall, enlargement of the left side is common in cats with heart
                disease.

                > Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.

                --
                JR
                & Tabby (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Lynx
              • Melinda Bruno
                ... or then ... Voula: I know there s a link to this site on the feline-heart egroups page, but here it is again anyway:
                Message 7 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
                  --- In feline-heart@egroups.com, "Voula Augerinos" <catwoman1@i...>
                  wrote:

                  > YES! It was ventricle. I THINK the left ventricle was not bad,
                  or then
                  > again was it the atrium! Confusion reigns. Any insights?

                  Voula:

                  I know there's a link to this site on the feline-heart egroups page,
                  but here it is again anyway:

                  http://members.aol.com/jchinitz/hcm/definitn.htm

                  This has a good explanation of the ventricles and atria and what they
                  do.

                  Basically, the left ventricle is a pump, and when HCM sets in, the
                  pump loses its ability to pump, so the blood isn't getting to where
                  it needs to get in the rest of the body.

                  This is what happened with our 16-y-o Pongo before he was diagnosed
                  in July '99. He'd been a little lethargic for the past few weeks, so
                  we brought him to the vet for his checkup early. An exam and an echo
                  showed "significant" left ventricle HCM -- the left ventricle was
                  enlarged and the walls were thickened, so the pump wasn't pumping the
                  way it should.

                  The vet prescribed diltiazem (Cardizem), a calcium channel blocker,
                  which gives the heart less work to do, and within weeks Pongo became
                  very zip-a-dee-doo-dah. He had his follow-up echo last May, and the
                  left ventricle was in better shape, decreased slightly in size and
                  thickness. However, the left atrium, where blood is stored, had
                  become slightly stiff and enlarged.

                  The left atrium is where clots can form. So if the left atrium is
                  damaged, that's when the cat has a higher possibility of getting
                  clots.

                  Pongo's been a life-long belly-acher and did not take well to
                  aspirin, so we're taking a chance without it.

                  The cardiologist recommended enalapril (Vasotec), which is an ACE
                  Inhibitor.

                  If you've heard that this drug is not recommended for kidney
                  patients, it's because it "cuts" the communication between the heart
                  and the kidneys. Meaning that the kidneys yell "more blood!" and the
                  heart doesn't hear them. This means less work for the heart, which is
                  good for a heart patient, but could be bad for the kidneys. This is
                  why a cat on enalapril needs to get his kidneys examined on a regular
                  basis.

                  Knock wood, the Pongster gets a CBC for all systems every two months,
                  and so far, the kidneys are holding up fine.

                  I hope this information has been helpful for you, and that you can
                  discuss with your vet anything you're unsure of.

                  --Melinda and Pongo
                • Voula Augerinos
                  Dear Laura, oh dear I am not sure! I remember the vet said the left atrium and the left something else. One was not too bad, the other he said the wall was
                  Message 8 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
                    Dear Laura,
                    oh dear I am not sure! I remember the vet said the left atrium and the
                    left something else. One was not too bad, the other he said the wall was
                    quite thickened and the passage through that was narrowed. Maybe if you
                    tell me what the other might be if you know, maybe I will remember. I can
                    ring the vet and ask. I was trying to remember what the vet said, but
                    didn't have my trusty pen and paper with me. The regular vet didn't give me
                    aspirin, but he also mentioned it. I need to ring tomorrow for
                    clarification. I have a lot to learn about heart problems.
                    I've been looking on the Internet for information about propranolol
                    and I am getting more scared by the minute! It said on one site to use with
                    caution if there are kidney and liver problems (I think because of slower
                    clearance from the body of the drug) and caution in hyperthyroidism (?!!!)
                    because stopping suddenly could cause dangerous rebound high heart rate.
                    I'm starting to think we should have stuck to the herbs!!!
                    Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.



                    > BTW, what is her left atrium measurement? That impacts the clot risk. We
                    > aren't doing aspirin because my cats' measurements have gone back to
                    normal,
                    > but we will probably do one baby aspirin twice a week because Lucky was
                    just
                    > diagnosed with spinal arthritis.
                    >
                    > Laura
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Laura
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Voula Augerinos <catwoman1@...>
                    > To: feline-heart@egroups.com <feline-heart@egroups.com>
                    > Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 9:10 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Diltiazem--Voula
                    >
                    >
                    > >Dear Laura,
                    > > thank you for your reply. Is Diltiazem a blood pressure lowering
                    > >medication? Pebbles has never shown any asthma symptoms. I wonder what
                    they
                    > >are in cats? The same as in people? Did either of your cats have high
                    BP.
                    > >Sorry Laura, my old posts are on my old computer. One of the main
                    purposes
                    > >for the propranolol was to lower Pebbles' heart rate.
                    > >Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.
                    > >
                    > >----------
                    > >> From: Laura Penny <lepenny@...>
                    > >> To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                    > >> Subject: [feline-heart] Diltiazem--Voula
                    > >> Date: Thursday, 19 October , 2000 11:07 PM
                    > >>
                    > >> Voula,
                    > >>
                    > >> Diltiazem is used for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. It is a calcium
                    > >channel
                    > >> blocker (whatever that is). It has virtually halted the progression of
                    > >HCM
                    > >> in my two cats over the past 3 years. We don't believe it has affected
                    > >> either cats' kidneys. Their values are creeping up to high normal or
                    > >> slightly above, but they're both 16, so I'd expect that anyway.
                    > >>
                    > >> Atenolol needs to be used with caution in any cat with asthma,
                    although I
                    > >> don't think you said Pebbles has that.
                    > >>
                    > >> Laura
                    > >>
                    > >> -----Original Message-----
                    > >> From: catwoman1@... <catwoman1@...>
                    > >> To: feline-heart@egroups.com <feline-heart@egroups.com>
                    > >> Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 8:22 AM
                    > >> Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Kassy's BP is great!
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> >Dear Jonathan,
                    > >> > I was looking up some old posts and trying to get some
                    > >> >information on propranolol. It is not the same as atenolol as I
                    > >> >thought earlier. What is diltiazem used for? And do you know of
                    > >> >effects on kidneys with either or any of these drugs?
                    > >> >Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.
                    > >> >
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > >> feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                    >
                    >
                  • Anyes Moscrip
                    I forgot to add a reminder that Diltiazem, Norvasc, and all calcium channel blockers should never be given with Cyproheptadine. I know many kitties get Cypro
                    Message 9 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
                      I forgot to add a reminder that Diltiazem, Norvasc, and all calcium channel
                      blockers should never be given with Cyproheptadine. I know many kitties get
                      Cypro for appetite. This combination is potentially life threatening, and
                      unfortunately I learned that the hard way.
                      There is a reference to this in Don Plumb's book on medicines, but most vets
                      are not aware of it. Our IM specialist was as she works at the ER clinic and
                      gets to see the results of this combo at the ER.

                      Anyes, angel Lucie, Georgina and Angelica
                    • Voula Augerinos
                      Dear Jonathan, YES! It was ventricle. I THINK the left ventricle was not bad, or then again was it the atrium! Confusion reigns. Any insights? Love, Voula and
                      Message 10 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
                        Dear Jonathan,
                        YES! It was ventricle. I THINK the left ventricle was not bad, or then
                        again was it the atrium! Confusion reigns. Any insights?
                        Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.


                        > > oh dear I am not sure! I remember the vet said the left
                        > > atrium and the left something else. One was not too bad,
                        > > the other he said the wall was quite thickened and the passage
                        > > through that was narrowed. Maybe if you tell me what the other
                        > > might be if you know, maybe I will remember.
                        >
                        > Ventricle?
                        >
                        > --
                        > JR
                        > & Tabby (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Lynx
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        >
                        >
                      • Voula Augerinos
                        How wonderful! Yes the specialist said it could help blood circulation to the kidneys. And thereby help the kidneys. :) Then again it could lower blood
                        Message 11 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
                          How wonderful! Yes the specialist said it could help blood circulation to
                          the kidneys. And thereby help the kidneys. :) Then again it could lower
                          blood pressure and affect the kidneys negatively :( As Pebbles has normal
                          blood pressure (130/80), I am wondering if the blood pressure can drop too
                          low? And what happens then?
                          I wonder why he recommended propranolol say as compared to Diltiazem? I
                          wonder what the differences are?
                          The vet said he wanted to help lower Pebbles' heart rate, and that
                          would mean less pressure (I think?) of blood or easier flow of blood
                          through the narrowed part of the heart. It could also help a little in
                          reducing the thickening, though the Tapazole would do that better.
                          I wondered why he didn't just recommend the Tapazole only. He said she
                          really needed both. But she is seventeen and her body is used to this
                          state, so not to change things too quickly to go with a slow change to let
                          her body adapt.
                          He said the propranolol also helps counteract the adrenaline that revs
                          up the body too.
                          He said the propranolol would help the heart (but not as much as the
                          Tapazole) and be less risk for the kidneys.
                          Lucie's reaction gives me hope. Thank you Anyes.
                          Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.
                          ----------
                          > From: Anyes Moscrip <anyes@...>
                          > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Diltiazem--Voula
                          > Date: Friday, 20 October , 2000 12:34 AM

                          > This may depend on the individual cat. We had very good results with
                          Diltiazem
                          > both in reducing BP (was 220/230 before starting it) and controlling the
                          HCM.
                          > It also did not seem to hurt the kidneys as the kidneys levels
                          immediately
                          > improved and general health improved dramatically. Lucie was able to
                          run, jump,
                          > go up and down the stairs again which she had not done in months, and her
                          > kidneys got improved blood circulation in the process.
                          >
                          > I hope that helps,
                          > Anyes, angel Lucie, Georgina and Angelica
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                          >
                          >
                        • Voula Augerinos
                          Hi Melinda, I am obviously going to have to learn a lot in a short time! But life is for learning. I just wish it wasn t for this. The information about kidney
                          Message 12 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
                            Hi Melinda,
                            I am obviously going to have to learn a lot in a short time! But life
                            is for learning. I just wish it wasn't for this. The information about
                            kidney problems was about beta blockers, like propranolol, atenolol etc.
                            I also found some interesting information that said Co-enzyme Q10
                            reduces side-effects of propranolol.
                            I will ring the vet tomorrow and clear up the ventricle and atrium
                            confusion...
                            I am getting some very positive replies from all the groups I have
                            posted to about my fears, and it seems most kitties do well. I am feeling a
                            little less afraid.
                            I know I am used to treating my cats with alternative medicine
                            wherever possible, and I know it has had many positive benefits, but the
                            reality is that Pebbles needs something stronger, and with that comes more
                            risk of negative side effects. The vet is still using herbs for the thyroid
                            and liver and kidneys, as well as the propranolol now. He is a very
                            cautious vet about using western medicine in cases like Pebbles, so that
                            does help me to be a bit reasssured. If he is not too worried, then it
                            should be okay.
                            Mind you, I was terrified when we first started the herbs and we have
                            had nothing but positive benefits. Thank you so much. I am so happy that
                            Pongo is doing well.
                            I will start the propranolol (what a difficult word to remember how to
                            spell properly!) tomorrow and I will let you all know. Believe me you will
                            all hear about every agonising fear and panic attack along the way! LOL
                            Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.
                            ----------
                            > From: Melinda Bruno <brunobaby@...>
                            > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                            > Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Diltiazem--Voula
                            > Date: Friday, 20 October , 2000 12:53 AM

                            > Basically, the left ventricle is a pump, and when HCM sets in, the
                            > pump loses its ability to pump, so the blood isn't getting to where
                            > it needs to get in the rest of the body.
                            >
                            > This is what happened with our 16-y-o Pongo before he was diagnosed
                            > in July '99. He'd been a little lethargic for the past few weeks, so
                            > we brought him to the vet for his checkup early. An exam and an echo
                            > showed "significant" left ventricle HCM -- the left ventricle was
                            > enlarged and the walls were thickened, so the pump wasn't pumping the
                            > way it should.
                            >
                            > The vet prescribed diltiazem (Cardizem), a calcium channel blocker,
                            > which gives the heart less work to do, and within weeks Pongo became
                            > very zip-a-dee-doo-dah. He had his follow-up echo last May, and the
                            > left ventricle was in better shape, decreased slightly in size and
                            > thickness. However, the left atrium, where blood is stored, had
                            > become slightly stiff and enlarged.
                            >
                            > The left atrium is where clots can form. So if the left atrium is
                            > damaged, that's when the cat has a higher possibility of getting
                            > clots.
                            >
                            > Pongo's been a life-long belly-acher and did not take well to
                            > aspirin, so we're taking a chance without it.
                            >
                            > The cardiologist recommended enalapril (Vasotec), which is an ACE
                            > Inhibitor.
                            >
                            > If you've heard that this drug is not recommended for kidney
                            > patients, it's because it "cuts" the communication between the heart
                            > and the kidneys. Meaning that the kidneys yell "more blood!" and the
                            > heart doesn't hear them. This means less work for the heart, which is
                            > good for a heart patient, but could be bad for the kidneys. This is
                            > why a cat on enalapril needs to get his kidneys examined on a regular
                            > basis.
                            >
                            > Knock wood, the Pongster gets a CBC for all systems every two months,
                            > and so far, the kidneys are holding up fine.
                            >
                            > I hope this information has been helpful for you, and that you can
                            > discuss with your vet anything you're unsure of.
                            >
                            > --Melinda and Pongo
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                            >
                            >
                          • Voula Augerinos
                            Dear Anyes, thank you. Yes I remember reading this on the CRF group. I think propranolol is a beta blocker. Is this different to a calcium channel blocker? I
                            Message 13 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
                              Dear Anyes,
                              thank you. Yes I remember reading this on the CRF group. I think
                              propranolol is a beta blocker. Is this different to a calcium channel
                              blocker? I will look that up in any case. I am not giving Pebbles any
                              cypro. Cypro is an anti-histamine isn't it? Actually I just remembered the
                              information I looked up warned against these drugs with propranolol too. In
                              any case, Pebbles certainly doesn't need an appetite stimulant! (smile!)
                              Thank goodness.
                              Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.

                              ----------
                              > From: Anyes Moscrip <anyes@...>
                              > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Re: Diltiazem--Voula
                              > Date: Friday, 20 October , 2000 1:25 AM
                              >
                              > I forgot to add a reminder that Diltiazem, Norvasc, and all calcium
                              channel
                              > blockers should never be given with Cyproheptadine. I know many kitties
                              get
                              > Cypro for appetite. This combination is potentially life threatening,
                              and
                              > unfortunately I learned that the hard way.
                              > There is a reference to this in Don Plumb's book on medicines, but most
                              vets
                              > are not aware of it. Our IM specialist was as she works at the ER clinic
                              and
                              > gets to see the results of this combo at the ER.
                              >
                              > Anyes, angel Lucie, Georgina and Angelica
                            • Jonathan Rosenberg
                              ... This is the same drug as enacard, which is what Lynx takes. ... I asked our vet about this a few weeks agio. She said that when enalapril was first
                              Message 14 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Melinda Bruno [mailto:brunobaby@...]
                                > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 10:54 AM
                                > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                > Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Diltiazem--Voula

                                > The cardiologist recommended enalapril (Vasotec), which is an ACE
                                > Inhibitor.

                                This is the same drug as enacard, which is what Lynx takes.

                                > If you've heard that this drug is not recommended for kidney
                                > patients, it's because it "cuts" the communication between
                                > the heart and the kidneys. Meaning that the kidneys yell "more
                                > blood!" and the heart doesn't hear them. This means less work
                                > for the heart, which is good for a heart patient, but could be
                                > bad for the kidneys.

                                I asked our vet about this a few weeks agio. She said that when enalapril
                                was first introduced, this was everyone's fear. But she said that the
                                latest research had shown that the drug actually appears to be less
                                troublesome for the kidneys than ohter treatments.

                                Just another data point ...

                                > --Melinda and Pongo

                                --
                                JR
                                & Tabby (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Lynx
                              • Jeanne Warner
                                Hi! I too have a cat, Dom, who is 5 years old and was diagnosed with HCM almost 1 year ago. He takes Diltiazem and Enalarpril. We did try baby aspirin for him
                                Message 15 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
                                  Hi!
                                  I too have a cat, Dom, who is 5 years old and was diagnosed with HCM
                                  almost 1 year ago. He takes Diltiazem and Enalarpril. We did try baby
                                  aspirin for him but had to discontinue it because it caused him to
                                  throw up most every day. He has had 2 ultrasounds so far and the
                                  second 1 showed that there has been no farther deterioration and his
                                  heart rate was lower. The Enlarpril was added after the second
                                  ultrasound and we will return for the next ultrasound in January. I
                                  will be anxious to see if there have been any changes. We do see our
                                  regular vet in between the cardiologist check ups. She did a chem
                                  profile to check for renal function and it was fine. So, all has been
                                  going very well for Dom since his diagnosis. We have noticed that he
                                  became alot more active after being on the meds. He stated running
                                  and jumping again. Cardiologist says it is because he feels better.

                                  We all live with the fear of blood clots, kidney problems etc. but it
                                  does become less stressful as the time goes by. At first, I just
                                  watched him waiting for something bad to happen but now we know that
                                  we are doing everything we can for him and that is all that we can
                                  do. Of course this is easier to say when he has been doing so well.
                                  It does help if you have a good vet that you trust and a good
                                  cardiologist. Dom and I are lucky to have both!

                                  Good luck to you and Pebbles,
                                  Jeanne & Dom











                                  --- In feline-heart@egroups.com, "Jonathan Rosenberg" <jr40@r...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: Melinda Bruno [mailto:brunobaby@a...]
                                  > > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 10:54 AM
                                  > > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                  > > Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Diltiazem--Voula
                                  >
                                  > > The cardiologist recommended enalapril (Vasotec), which is an ACE
                                  > > Inhibitor.
                                  >
                                  > This is the same drug as enacard, which is what Lynx takes.
                                  >
                                  > > If you've heard that this drug is not recommended for kidney
                                  > > patients, it's because it "cuts" the communication between
                                  > > the heart and the kidneys. Meaning that the kidneys yell "more
                                  > > blood!" and the heart doesn't hear them. This means less work
                                  > > for the heart, which is good for a heart patient, but could be
                                  > > bad for the kidneys.
                                  >
                                  > I asked our vet about this a few weeks agio. She said that when
                                  enalapril
                                  > was first introduced, this was everyone's fear. But she said that
                                  the
                                  > latest research had shown that the drug actually appears to be less
                                  > troublesome for the kidneys than ohter treatments.
                                  >
                                  > Just another data point ...
                                  >
                                  > > --Melinda and Pongo
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > JR
                                  > & Tabby (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Lynx
                                • Voula Augerinos
                                  Hi there Jeanne, another positive and hopeful message. Thank you. And thank you for saying that the anxiety eases. Yes I have noticed Pebbles has been a bit
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Oct 19, 2000
                                    Hi there Jeanne,
                                    another positive and hopeful message. Thank you. And thank you for
                                    saying that the anxiety eases. Yes I have noticed Pebbles has been a bit
                                    less active lately. I also thought that because over the past few months
                                    before Sachie died, that it was because Sachie was sick, because she used
                                    to get Pebbles to play with her. I think that is true, because before
                                    Pebbles would tear around a million miles an hour chasing Sachie. But I
                                    also think that her heart could be a factor too. Well everyone, I am soon
                                    to give Pebbles her first tablet (one quarter of a propranolol). Wish us
                                    well. I think Pebbles will be okay, but I am going to need something
                                    myself!
                                    Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.

                                    ----------
                                    > From: Jeanne Warner <jwarner310@...>
                                    > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                    > Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Diltiazem--Voula
                                    > Date: Friday, 20 October , 2000 12:28 PM
                                    >
                                    > Hi!
                                    > I too have a cat, Dom, who is 5 years old and was diagnosed with HCM
                                    > almost 1 year ago. He takes Diltiazem and Enalarpril. We did try baby
                                    > aspirin for him but had to discontinue it because it caused him to
                                    > throw up most every day. He has had 2 ultrasounds so far and the
                                    > second 1 showed that there has been no farther deterioration and his
                                    > heart rate was lower. The Enlarpril was added after the second
                                    > ultrasound and we will return for the next ultrasound in January. I
                                    > will be anxious to see if there have been any changes. We do see our
                                    > regular vet in between the cardiologist check ups. She did a chem
                                    > profile to check for renal function and it was fine. So, all has been
                                    > going very well for Dom since his diagnosis. We have noticed that he
                                    > became alot more active after being on the meds. He stated running
                                    > and jumping again. Cardiologist says it is because he feels better.
                                    >
                                    > We all live with the fear of blood clots, kidney problems etc. but it
                                    > does become less stressful as the time goes by. At first, I just
                                    > watched him waiting for something bad to happen but now we know that
                                    > we are doing everything we can for him and that is all that we can
                                    > do. Of course this is easier to say when he has been doing so well.
                                    > It does help if you have a good vet that you trust and a good
                                    > cardiologist. Dom and I are lucky to have both!
                                    >
                                    > Good luck to you and Pebbles,
                                    > Jeanne & Dom
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In feline-heart@egroups.com, "Jonathan Rosenberg" <jr40@r...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > > From: Melinda Bruno [mailto:brunobaby@a...]
                                    > > > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 10:54 AM
                                    > > > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                    > > > Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Diltiazem--Voula
                                    > >
                                    > > > The cardiologist recommended enalapril (Vasotec), which is an ACE
                                    > > > Inhibitor.
                                    > >
                                    > > This is the same drug as enacard, which is what Lynx takes.
                                    > >
                                    > > > If you've heard that this drug is not recommended for kidney
                                    > > > patients, it's because it "cuts" the communication between
                                    > > > the heart and the kidneys. Meaning that the kidneys yell "more
                                    > > > blood!" and the heart doesn't hear them. This means less work
                                    > > > for the heart, which is good for a heart patient, but could be
                                    > > > bad for the kidneys.
                                    > >
                                    > > I asked our vet about this a few weeks agio. She said that when
                                    > enalapril
                                    > > was first introduced, this was everyone's fear. But she said that
                                    > the
                                    > > latest research had shown that the drug actually appears to be less
                                    > > troublesome for the kidneys than ohter treatments.
                                    > >
                                    > > Just another data point ...
                                    > >
                                    > > > --Melinda and Pongo
                                    > >
                                    > > --
                                    > > JR
                                    > > & Tabby (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Lynx
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Voula Augerinos
                                    Hi Anyes and everyone, ... Diltiazem ... HCM. ... immediately ... run, jump, ... Hi Anyes, I was wondering how long it took for Lucie s general energy to
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Oct 31, 2000
                                      Hi Anyes and everyone,

                                      Anyes wrote :

                                      > This may depend on the individual cat. We had very good results with
                                      Diltiazem
                                      > both in reducing BP (was 220/230 before starting it) and controlling the
                                      HCM.
                                      > It also did not seem to hurt the kidneys as the kidneys levels
                                      immediately
                                      > improved and general health improved dramatically. Lucie was able to
                                      run, jump,
                                      > go up and down the stairs again which she had not done in months, and her
                                      > kidneys got improved blood circulation in the process.

                                      Hi Anyes, I was wondering how long it took for Lucie's general energy
                                      to improve after starting Diltiazem? Pebbles is howling less and is more
                                      settled since starting propranolol but she is not running around or being
                                      very active.
                                      We have a vet appointment on Thursday and I will ask about Diltiazem
                                      and other suggestions made, but I think that the general vet may not have
                                      as much knowledge as the specialist who prescribed the propranolol.
                                      We are going to have a blood test done to check Pebbles' kidney
                                      function after two weeks on the propranolol.
                                      If anyone has any more suggestions for questions to ask the vet I
                                      would appreciate it.
                                      Love, Voula and Pebbles and Lucy and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.
                                    • Anyes Moscrip
                                      ... We saw an improvement within 24hrs, and even more improvement a couple days later. Her energy level increased dramatically within days and stayed that way
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Oct 31, 2000
                                        Voula Augerinos wrote:

                                        > Hi Anyes and everyone,
                                        >
                                        > Anyes wrote :
                                        >
                                        > ... general health improved dramatically. Lucie was able to run, jump, go
                                        > up and down the stairs again which she had not done in months, and her
                                        > > kidneys got improved blood circulation in the process.
                                        >
                                        > Hi Anyes, I was wondering how long it took for Lucie's general energy to
                                        > improve after starting Diltiazem? Pebbles is howling less and is more
                                        > settled since starting propranolol but she is not running around or being
                                        > very active.

                                        We saw an improvement within 24hrs, and even more improvement a couple days
                                        later. Her energy level increased dramatically within days and stayed that way
                                        for months. Her bp went back up after a few months, as her kidneys
                                        deteriorated more. She was diagnosed with advanced/end stage crf so her time
                                        was limited of course, but what a difference in her quality of life!

                                        Anyes, angel Lucie, Georgina and Angelica
                                      • Laura Penny
                                        Kassy s energy level also increased quickly and dramatically after she began diltiazem. Miraculously, she has had no progression of HCM in nearly 3 years, even
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Oct 31, 2000
                                          Kassy's energy level also increased quickly and dramatically after she began
                                          diltiazem. Miraculously, she has had no progression of HCM in nearly 3
                                          years, even after being dx with hyperT.

                                          Laura
                                        • Voula Augerinos
                                          Hi Anyes, thank you for your reply. I am so happy that Angel Lucie was helped to have a better quality of life. That is so important. What beautiful names you
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Oct 31, 2000
                                            Hi Anyes,
                                            thank you for your reply. I am so happy that Angel Lucie was helped to
                                            have a better quality of life. That is so important.
                                            What beautiful names you give your cats!
                                            Love, Voula and Pebbles and Lucy and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.


                                            > We saw an improvement within 24hrs, and even more improvement a couple
                                            days
                                            > later. Her energy level increased dramatically within days and stayed
                                            that way
                                            > for months. Her bp went back up after a few months, as her kidneys
                                            > deteriorated more. She was diagnosed with advanced/end stage crf so her
                                            time
                                            > was limited of course, but what a difference in her quality of life!
                                            >
                                            > Anyes, angel Lucie, Georgina and Angelica
                                          • Voula Augerinos
                                            Hi Laura, I will ask the vet tomorrow about Diltiazem and what the differences are and why beta blockers are prescribed for some cats and Diltiazem for others.
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Oct 31, 2000
                                              Hi Laura,
                                              I will ask the vet tomorrow about Diltiazem and what the differences
                                              are and why beta blockers are prescribed for some cats and Diltiazem for
                                              others. I have heard some positive stories about Diltiazem.
                                              Love, Voula and Pebbles and Lucy and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.

                                              ----------
                                              > From: Laura Penny <lepenny@...>
                                              > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                              > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Diltiazem--Voula
                                              > Date: Wednesday, 01 November , 2000 11:56
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Kassy's energy level also increased quickly and dramatically after she
                                              began
                                              > diltiazem. Miraculously, she has had no progression of HCM in nearly 3
                                              > years, even after being dx with hyperT.
                                              >
                                              > Laura
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • joe.weissmann@uc.edu
                                              My Tigger initially was put on Propanolol after a severe case of CHF (conjestive heart failure) when he was 18 months old. Propanolol wiped him out...lethargic
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Nov 1, 2000
                                                My Tigger initially was put on Propanolol after a severe case of CHF
                                                (conjestive heart failure) when he was 18 months old. Propanolol wiped
                                                him out...lethargic wouldn't move...trouble breathing, etc. Found out
                                                this drug is a non-selective beta blocker and can cause adverse
                                                reactions including difficulty in breathing but it is the most
                                                powerful beta blocker at a vet's disposal. After a week we then
                                                switched him to Atenolol, a selective beta blocker, and he improved
                                                dramatically. Tigger was almost back to himself with just a little
                                                less stamina then before.
                                                Tigger was taking a combination of Atenolol, Vasotec, and the baby
                                                aspirin and was doing fine when on his semi-annual exam the vet
                                                discovered moderate arrythmia and doubled his dosage of Vasotec &
                                                Atenolol. He was tolerating this increased dosage pretty well for
                                                about a month when one night his heart threw a clot that paralyzed his
                                                rear legs. Fortunately it was only a partial blockage and within a
                                                week he was back on his feet and could walk around. I think it may
                                                have only been a partial blockage due to the baby aspirin he's been
                                                taking.
                                                To make a long story short(er), after consulting w/ several people
                                                on the web and doing a lot of research, I convinced the vet to take
                                                him off the Atenolol and put him on Diltiazem instead. She
                                                begrudgingly did so, but only for a week and if that didn't work he
                                                was going back on Atenolol/Propanolol or I would have to find a new
                                                specialist. After a week he some seemed no worse than before but he
                                                still had the arrhythmia. We decided to keep him on the Diltiazem and
                                                he's been doing great for the last 6 months.
                                                My feelings are that if your cat has not been in CHF then the beta
                                                blockers (Propanolol/Atenolol) can keep HCM in check but if your cat
                                                has had CHF episode, then a calcium channel blocker(Diltiazem) is the
                                                better choice. Diltiazem also has some anti-clotting properties which
                                                is good thing, while the beta blockers can restrict blood vessels
                                                which is a bad thing if clot is thrown. I will have to say that beta
                                                blockers (Propanolol and to a lesser extent Atenolol) are much better
                                                at treating arrhythmia which is a major cause of clot formation.

                                                - Joe Weissmann
                                              • Voula Augerinos
                                                Hi Joe, thank you for your message. I think I read somewhere that beta blockers should be used with caution in CHF (congestive heart failure). I will look at
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Nov 1, 2000
                                                  Hi Joe,
                                                  thank you for your message. I think I read somewhere that beta
                                                  blockers should be used with caution in CHF (congestive heart failure). I
                                                  will look at the site and write again. I think it said that they can worsen
                                                  heart failure.

                                                  > My feelings are that if your cat has not been in CHF then the beta
                                                  > blockers (Propanolol/Atenolol) can keep HCM in check but if your cat
                                                  > has had CHF episode, then a calcium channel blocker(Diltiazem) is the
                                                  > better choice.

                                                  Pebbles has not been in CHF.

                                                  > Diltiazem also has some anti-clotting properties which
                                                  > is good thing, while the beta blockers can restrict blood vessels
                                                  > which is a bad thing if clot is thrown.

                                                  That is interesting. I will look into this and ask the vet.

                                                  > I will have to say that beta
                                                  > blockers (Propanolol and to a lesser extent Atenolol) are much better
                                                  > at treating arrhythmia which is a major cause of clot formation.

                                                  For Pebbles the specialist said he wanted to lower her heart rate and
                                                  hopefully that would help the heart.
                                                  I am still learning about heart disease in cats. I don't know very
                                                  much so I am sorry if I can't explain myself too well.

                                                  Love, Voula and Pebbles and Lucy and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.
                                                • Mike & Linda Irrgang (Now in Jamaica!)
                                                  Voula, I ll be praying for you and Pebbles in my thoughts and prayers. Pumpkin, Max and Linda ... From: Voula Augerinos [mailto:catwoman1@iprimus.com.au] Sent:
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Nov 3, 2000
                                                    Voula,
                                                    I'll be praying for you and Pebbles in my thoughts and prayers.

                                                    Pumpkin, Max and Linda
                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: Voula Augerinos [mailto:catwoman1@...]
                                                    Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 10:38 PM
                                                    To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Re: Diltiazem--Voula


                                                    Hi there Jeanne,
                                                    another positive and hopeful message. Thank you. And thank you for
                                                    saying that the anxiety eases. Yes I have noticed Pebbles has been a bit
                                                    less active lately. I also thought that because over the past few months
                                                    before Sachie died, that it was because Sachie was sick, because she used
                                                    to get Pebbles to play with her. I think that is true, because before
                                                    Pebbles would tear around a million miles an hour chasing Sachie. But I
                                                    also think that her heart could be a factor too. Well everyone, I am soon
                                                    to give Pebbles her first tablet (one quarter of a propranolol). Wish us
                                                    well. I think Pebbles will be okay, but I am going to need something
                                                    myself!
                                                    Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.

                                                    ----------
                                                    > From: Jeanne Warner <jwarner310@...>
                                                    > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                                    > Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Diltiazem--Voula
                                                    > Date: Friday, 20 October , 2000 12:28 PM
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi!
                                                    > I too have a cat, Dom, who is 5 years old and was diagnosed with HCM
                                                    > almost 1 year ago. He takes Diltiazem and Enalarpril. We did try baby
                                                    > aspirin for him but had to discontinue it because it caused him to
                                                    > throw up most every day. He has had 2 ultrasounds so far and the
                                                    > second 1 showed that there has been no farther deterioration and his
                                                    > heart rate was lower. The Enlarpril was added after the second
                                                    > ultrasound and we will return for the next ultrasound in January. I
                                                    > will be anxious to see if there have been any changes. We do see our
                                                    > regular vet in between the cardiologist check ups. She did a chem
                                                    > profile to check for renal function and it was fine. So, all has been
                                                    > going very well for Dom since his diagnosis. We have noticed that he
                                                    > became alot more active after being on the meds. He stated running
                                                    > and jumping again. Cardiologist says it is because he feels better.
                                                    >
                                                    > We all live with the fear of blood clots, kidney problems etc. but it
                                                    > does become less stressful as the time goes by. At first, I just
                                                    > watched him waiting for something bad to happen but now we know that
                                                    > we are doing everything we can for him and that is all that we can
                                                    > do. Of course this is easier to say when he has been doing so well.
                                                    > It does help if you have a good vet that you trust and a good
                                                    > cardiologist. Dom and I are lucky to have both!
                                                    >
                                                    > Good luck to you and Pebbles,
                                                    > Jeanne & Dom
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In feline-heart@egroups.com, "Jonathan Rosenberg" <jr40@r...>
                                                    > wrote:
                                                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                    > > > From: Melinda Bruno [mailto:brunobaby@a...]
                                                    > > > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 10:54 AM
                                                    > > > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                                    > > > Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Diltiazem--Voula
                                                    > >
                                                    > > > The cardiologist recommended enalapril (Vasotec), which is an ACE
                                                    > > > Inhibitor.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > This is the same drug as enacard, which is what Lynx takes.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > > If you've heard that this drug is not recommended for kidney
                                                    > > > patients, it's because it "cuts" the communication between
                                                    > > > the heart and the kidneys. Meaning that the kidneys yell "more
                                                    > > > blood!" and the heart doesn't hear them. This means less work
                                                    > > > for the heart, which is good for a heart patient, but could be
                                                    > > > bad for the kidneys.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I asked our vet about this a few weeks agio. She said that when
                                                    > enalapril
                                                    > > was first introduced, this was everyone's fear. But she said that
                                                    > the
                                                    > > latest research had shown that the drug actually appears to be less
                                                    > > troublesome for the kidneys than ohter treatments.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Just another data point ...
                                                    > >
                                                    > > > --Melinda and Pongo
                                                    > >
                                                    > > --
                                                    > > JR
                                                    > > & Tabby (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Lynx
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                    > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                                    >
                                                    >


                                                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                    feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.