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Re: [FH] Congestive Heart Failure

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  • marcijoy2002
    Have you tried baby food? Just make sure it does not contain onions or onion powder, which is deadly to cats. Marcia and Morris ... consulting with a
    Message 1 of 16 , May 2, 2002
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      Have you tried baby food? Just make sure it does not contain onions
      or onion powder, which is deadly to cats.

      Marcia and Morris


      --- In feline-heart@y..., Tricia Olson <olsontl1@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks everyone. I will talk to my vet about him possibly
      consulting with a cardiologist, if he hasn't already done so. I'm
      also trying to make myself as aware as possible, so I can ask the
      right questions.
      > So far today Noel has barely eaten. I went and got some canned
      salmon to see if I could get her started on anything at all, even
      though it's not her heart diet. I saw her take a couple of nibbles.
      That's all. : ( I called the vet and he got me some Nutri-Cal (cat
      space food in a tube - high calories). I've put some in her mouth,
      like the tube said to get her started, but she wouldn't eat what I'd
      put on a plate. I've tried to put a little in her mouth periodically,
      just to get something in her. *sigh* If this doesn't improve I'll end
      up taking her back to the vet so they can put her back on IV fluids.
      I have not seen her drink myself, not to say she hasn't, but I
      haven't seen it.
      > This is the hardest thing for me. I've worked with everything from
      Chameleons up to Horses...and never been so upset as I am now. She is
      so sad to see. And then of course the other cat is rejecting her now
      because of the vet smells.
      > Right now what she needs more than anything is calories for
      strength. Please wish me luck. I start a new job Monday and it sure
      would be nice to have her settled some so I'm not so distracted. I
      know I can't think about anything but her.
      > Trish
      > marcijoy2002 <foxfried@h...> wrote: Sometimes it is possible for
      your vet to consult with a specialist
      > without you, yourself having to take the cat to see the
      specialist.
      > My regular vet consults with a cardiologist at the Animal Medical
      > Center in New York. He shares Morris' records and test results with
      > an AMC cardiologist. He also has a technician come to his office
      and
      > do echocardiograms there.
      >
      > (My vet also consults with an endocrinologist at AMC for my other
      cat
      > who is diabetic.)
      >
      > It costs me less to have my vet take care of the consultations and
      > the tests than for me to take Morris to the AMC myself. It is also
      > less stressful for Morris to not have to travel to a strange vet's
      > office and be examined by a strange vet. In addition, my regular
      vet
      > has known Morris since he was a kitten; he knows him as a "whole
      cat"
      > not just as an "HCM cat."
      >
      > But I don't know if having your vet consult with a specialist is an
      > option for every cat owner.
      >
      > Marcia and Morris
      >
      >
      > --- In feline-heart@y..., "Jan" <toni@s...> wrote:
      > > I agree. A cardiologist is the way to go.
      > > Jan
      > >
      > > http://joekopecky.homestead.com
      > > http://home.talkcity.com/earthteam2000/tonismith/index.html
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Jonathan Rosenberg <jr40@e...>
      > > To: <feline-heart@y...>
      > > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:07 PM
      > > Subject: RE: [FH] Congestive Heart Failure
      > >
      > >
      > > > Trish,
      > > >
      > > > I'm sorry you have to be here, but welcome to the list.
      > > >
      > > > If you haven't already done so, I very strongly suggest that you
      > > > take Noel to see a vet cardiologist ASAP. A cardiologist will
      > > > (almost certainly) do an ultrasound, which will provide the best
      > > > diagnosis possible. And a cardiologist will also be able to
      > > > discuss the best treatment options with you.
      > > >
      > > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > > From: olsontl1 [mailto:olsontl1@y...]
      > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:29 PM
      > > > > To: feline-heart@y...
      > > > > Subject: [FH] Congestive Heart Failure
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Hello everyone. This is my first post here. I just
      > > > > brought my eight
      > > > > year old female tortie (American Shorthair), Noel,
      > > > > home from the
      > > > > vet. She has been there since Monday. She's undergone all the
      > > > > expected tests.
      > > > >
      > > > > The conclusion, congestive heart failure. Now, I know that the
      > > > > prognosis can be very good if caught early and treated
      > > > > well, but I'm
      > > > > still crushed. These have been the worst three days.
      > > > > I'm so happy to
      > > > > have her home, though she's still quite sick.
      > > > >
      > > > > The EKG from this morning showed superventricular
      > > > > tachachardia. We
      > > > > don't know if the arythmia is from the stress or not
      > > > > yet. The vet is
      > > > > doing a followup EKG next week.
      > > > >
      > > > > She has been put on Lasix (though not much relief
      > > > > yet), and an anti-
      > > > > biotic, as well as Science Diet H/D. She's still not
      > > > > eating much,
      > > > > and wouldn't even take one treat from me. But I know
      > > > > she's still
      > > > > extremely stressed.
      > > > >
      > > > > I'm glad I found this list, and hope to gain more
      > > > > experience and
      > > > > knowledge to help Noel recover and live a happy life.
      > > > >
      > > > > Noel has a "sister", an 11 year old calic, Balki, as
      > > > > well as two
      > > > > friendly cockatiels, Dakota and Nisa.
      > > > >
      > > > > Trish
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > > > >
      > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@y...
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
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      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > >
      > > >
      >
      >
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      >
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      > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Susan
      ... I would fingerfeed AD and squirt Pedialyte in her mouth. AD is specifically formulated for sick cats. Susan
      Message 2 of 16 , May 2, 2002
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        --- Tricia Olson <olsontl1@...> wrote:
        >
        > I've put some in her mouth, like the tube
        > said to get her started, but she wouldn't eat what
        > I'd put on a plate. I've tried to put a little in
        > her mouth periodically, just to get something in
        > her. *sigh* If this doesn't improve I'll end up
        > taking her back to the vet so they can put her back
        > on IV fluids. I have not seen her drink myself, not
        > to say she hasn't, but I haven't seen it.


        I would fingerfeed AD and squirt Pedialyte in her
        mouth. AD is specifically formulated for sick cats.

        Susan

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
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      • Tricia Olson
        Thanks for that suggestion. I hadn t tried that yet. ; ) Will do. Trish marcijoy2002 wrote: Have you tried baby food? Just make sure it
        Message 3 of 16 , May 2, 2002
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          Thanks for that suggestion. I hadn't tried that yet. ; ) Will do.
          Trish
          marcijoy2002 <foxfried@...> wrote: Have you tried baby food? Just make sure it does not contain onions
          or onion powder, which is deadly to cats.

          Marcia and Morris


          --- In feline-heart@y..., Tricia Olson <olsontl1@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks everyone. I will talk to my vet about him possibly
          consulting with a cardiologist, if he hasn't already done so. I'm
          also trying to make myself as aware as possible, so I can ask the
          right questions.
          > So far today Noel has barely eaten. I went and got some canned
          salmon to see if I could get her started on anything at all, even
          though it's not her heart diet. I saw her take a couple of nibbles.
          That's all. : ( I called the vet and he got me some Nutri-Cal (cat
          space food in a tube - high calories). I've put some in her mouth,
          like the tube said to get her started, but she wouldn't eat what I'd
          put on a plate. I've tried to put a little in her mouth periodically,
          just to get something in her. *sigh* If this doesn't improve I'll end
          up taking her back to the vet so they can put her back on IV fluids.
          I have not seen her drink myself, not to say she hasn't, but I
          haven't seen it.
          > This is the hardest thing for me. I've worked with everything from
          Chameleons up to Horses...and never been so upset as I am now. She is
          so sad to see. And then of course the other cat is rejecting her now
          because of the vet smells.
          > Right now what she needs more than anything is calories for
          strength. Please wish me luck. I start a new job Monday and it sure
          would be nice to have her settled some so I'm not so distracted. I
          know I can't think about anything but her.
          > Trish
          > marcijoy2002 <foxfried@h...> wrote: Sometimes it is possible for
          your vet to consult with a specialist
          > without you, yourself having to take the cat to see the
          specialist.
          > My regular vet consults with a cardiologist at the Animal Medical
          > Center in New York. He shares Morris' records and test results with
          > an AMC cardiologist. He also has a technician come to his office
          and
          > do echocardiograms there.
          >
          > (My vet also consults with an endocrinologist at AMC for my other
          cat
          > who is diabetic.)
          >
          > It costs me less to have my vet take care of the consultations and
          > the tests than for me to take Morris to the AMC myself. It is also
          > less stressful for Morris to not have to travel to a strange vet's
          > office and be examined by a strange vet. In addition, my regular
          vet
          > has known Morris since he was a kitten; he knows him as a "whole
          cat"
          > not just as an "HCM cat."
          >
          > But I don't know if having your vet consult with a specialist is an
          > option for every cat owner.
          >
          > Marcia and Morris
          >
          >
          > --- In feline-heart@y..., "Jan" <toni@s...> wrote:
          > > I agree. A cardiologist is the way to go.
          > > Jan
          > >
          > > http://joekopecky.homestead.com
          > > http://home.talkcity.com/earthteam2000/tonismith/index.html
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: Jonathan Rosenberg <jr40@e...>
          > > To: <feline-heart@y...>
          > > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:07 PM
          > > Subject: RE: [FH] Congestive Heart Failure
          > >
          > >
          > > > Trish,
          > > >
          > > > I'm sorry you have to be here, but welcome to the list.
          > > >
          > > > If you haven't already done so, I very strongly suggest that you
          > > > take Noel to see a vet cardiologist ASAP. A cardiologist will
          > > > (almost certainly) do an ultrasound, which will provide the best
          > > > diagnosis possible. And a cardiologist will also be able to
          > > > discuss the best treatment options with you.
          > > >
          > > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > > From: olsontl1 [mailto:olsontl1@y...]
          > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:29 PM
          > > > > To: feline-heart@y...
          > > > > Subject: [FH] Congestive Heart Failure
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Hello everyone. This is my first post here. I just
          > > > > brought my eight
          > > > > year old female tortie (American Shorthair), Noel,
          > > > > home from the
          > > > > vet. She has been there since Monday. She's undergone all the
          > > > > expected tests.
          > > > >
          > > > > The conclusion, congestive heart failure. Now, I know that the
          > > > > prognosis can be very good if caught early and treated
          > > > > well, but I'm
          > > > > still crushed. These have been the worst three days.
          > > > > I'm so happy to
          > > > > have her home, though she's still quite sick.
          > > > >
          > > > > The EKG from this morning showed superventricular
          > > > > tachachardia. We
          > > > > don't know if the arythmia is from the stress or not
          > > > > yet. The vet is
          > > > > doing a followup EKG next week.
          > > > >
          > > > > She has been put on Lasix (though not much relief
          > > > > yet), and an anti-
          > > > > biotic, as well as Science Diet H/D. She's still not
          > > > > eating much,
          > > > > and wouldn't even take one treat from me. But I know
          > > > > she's still
          > > > > extremely stressed.
          > > > >
          > > > > I'm glad I found this list, and hope to gain more
          > > > > experience and
          > > > > knowledge to help Noel recover and live a happy life.
          > > > >
          > > > > Noel has a "sister", an 11 year old calic, Balki, as
          > > > > well as two
          > > > > friendly cockatiels, Dakota and Nisa.
          > > > >
          > > > > Trish
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > > >
          > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@y...
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@y...
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > >
          > > >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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        • Tricia Olson
          Ok. She IS drinking. So that s the good news. And I think she is actually nibbling lightly at the different foods I ve tried. I did finger feed the Nutri-Cal
          Message 4 of 16 , May 3, 2002
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            Ok. She IS drinking. So that's the good news. And I think she is actually nibbling lightly at the different foods I've tried. I did finger feed the Nutri-Cal last night. She probably thinks I'm a beast now, but at least I got the calories in her, and she's getting fluid on her own. She seems a little more lively today and the bloating is coming down. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

            Susan <somnamblst@...> wrote:
            --- Tricia Olson <olsontl1@...> wrote:
            >
            > I've put some in her mouth, like the tube
            > said to get her started, but she wouldn't eat what
            > I'd put on a plate. I've tried to put a little in
            > her mouth periodically, just to get something in
            > her. *sigh* If this doesn't improve I'll end up
            > taking her back to the vet so they can put her back
            > on IV fluids. I have not seen her drink myself, not
            > to say she hasn't, but I haven't seen it.


            I would fingerfeed AD and squirt Pedialyte in her
            mouth. AD is specifically formulated for sick cats.

            Susan

            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
            http://health.yahoo.com

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          • smittyhj82
            Hi everyone. My little Winston was diagnosed with HCM in September, and was in CHF by November. After a few months, we seemed to have it under control. From
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 16 6:51 AM
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              Hi everyone. My little Winston was diagnosed with HCM in September, and was in CHF by November. After a few months, we seemed to have it under control. From February to Early June, we were stable- no fluid and had no episodes of CHF. I took him back to the cardio at the end of May/early June for his bloodwork and repeat echo. Echo was not any worse, but no better and all bloodwork was fine. Within about 2-3 weeks after this visit, we were back in congestive heart failure.

              He gets 12.5 lasix and 12.5 hctz 2 x a day (in addition to asprin, diltiazem, enalapril and nitroglycerine cream). The fluid is moderate on the scale of fluid. No open mouth breathing, just increased breaths per minute. Every 72 hours, I have been relacing his evening lasix with injectable lasix (7.5 mg, sub-q) and this seems to keep the fluid away for about 60 hours, and at 72 hours, i give him another injection.

              Its been over a month and we cant seem to kick this. Any advice?

              Melissa, my wonderful little Winston and Big Brother Oliver
            • lee.steidel
              Once a cat maxes out on Furosemide and they have to go to emergency for congestive heart failure, what drug is administered by emergency for stabilization if
              Message 6 of 16 , Oct 28, 2014
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                Once a cat maxes out on Furosemide and they have to go to emergency for congestive heart failure, what drug is administered by emergency for stabilization if the cat has developed TOTAL DRUG RESISTANCE to furosemide and it is no longer causing any water loss? Keaton suffers from significant pulmonary edema EVERY TWO weeks since Sept. 20, 2014.

                 

                Cardio is not back until Wednesday and Keaton has already been hospitalized two (2) times for HCM/CHF in the past 38 days on Sept. 20th and Oct. 11th.

                 

                Is there any hope??? Please offer me your honest opinion!

                 

                Should I consider euthanasia at this point after $9,000 in vet bills in past month?

                 

                He is the love of my life and this is just heartbreaking to watch his RR go from 16 RR after last CRF and oxygen cage hospitalization on 10/11 to 32 RR on Saturday (his cardio sent him home with stronger dose 60 mg. per day of furosemide and 37.5 mg per day of Pimobendan this last Saturday.) He had some dusting of fluid on his x-rays this last Saturday but not enough to warrant hospitalization. His urinary output was only one small litter clump in the past 24 hours. His RR is rising and I am frightened and need to understand how he will be stabilized and with what drug if furosemide is now useless. I don't want to take him to emergency only to have them give him more worthless IV Lasix if he has built 100% resistance to it due to his last two three day hospital stays. I called emergency hospital and the doctor there would not tell me the treatment protocol and there are no cardiologists on call tonight.

                 

                Is it worth keeping my baby boy alive if he has to be placed on an IV in an oxygen cage for $3,000 every two weeks? Is this any quality of life for a one year old cat?

                 

                I feel sooooooooooo helpless. . . I need ALL the advice I can get as quickly as possible before it is too late.

                 

                Thank you. 

                Lee and Keaton

                 

              • Emily Valentin
                Keaton s mom, There are other diuretics your regular vet can prescribe to use in conjunction with furosemide. Also, my cat s breathing rate at some point would
                Message 7 of 16 , Oct 28, 2014
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                  Keaton's mom, 

                  There are other diuretics your regular vet can prescribe to use in conjunction with furosemide. Also, my cat's breathing rate at some point would never come down from 38. Why? Because his heart was so enlarged that his lungs had less space to work. The doctor always told me to watch for a trend instead of the breathing rate. I don't know how yours tells you to handle it but is he looking uncomfortable? Have you tried a low sodium diet? If you ask me if he is worth you trying everything before letting him go I will tell you yes! But I know finances and vet bills are too high. We still are paying for Tiger's bills a year later. Only Keaton can tell you when he's had enough and I think the group would agree that our kitties have pretty much told us when they've had enough. 

                  If Keaton still has pep in his step then defenetly keep him around and talk to the cardiologist about other stronger diuretics or combinations to control this. I know Spirolonactone (I think that's how it's spelled) is a good diuretic to use and my Tiger used it for a few months with the Furosemide. 

                  Pray about your decision and be strong for Keaton. You both are in my thoughts today. 

                  Emily, 4/ever Tiger's mom 


                  Emily Valentin-Baker, SSP
                  Licensed Specialist in School Psychology 
                  Nationally Certified School Psychologist 

                  "Winners never quit. Quitters never win" ~ Mom  
                • JOSIE NEWMAN
                  hi Lee if Keaton is worth it to you, then he is definitely worth keeping around. I don t know the exact disease Keaton has, but Chloie, my dearly departed
                  Message 8 of 16 , Oct 28, 2014
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                    hi Lee
                     
                    if Keaton is worth it to you, then he is definitely worth "keeping around." I don't know the exact disease Keaton has, but Chloie, my dearly departed cardio girl, had a quick congestion reduction once she was on the right dose of pimobendan. more importantly, when she first went congestive, it took close to two months of slowly raising Lasix (furosemide) before finding the right amount. I had her tapped three times in nine days to draw fluid off her lungs. then it went to every nine days until her drugs were the right mixture. has Keaton been tapped at all? he would feel much  more comfy. also, the problem with raising the Lasix so much and so quickly is that you can only go so high before they become resistant to it. there are other drugs than Lasix which help, too. there is very strong one (torbram?) which you can get in US. are you in US? I am in Canada and we cannot get it here.  
                     
                    although he is a very sick boy, vets make a lot of money from people like us so try not to let all the numbers of his breathing, drugs etc. get you derailed. it is very overwhelming and scary to negotiate the world of sick cardio kitties and the drs who "guide" us. as Emily said, don't expect Keaton to present perfectly -- he has a serious illness. find out what his normal is. that will not be the normal for a well cat or for any other cat.
                     
                    hope things look up for you and Keaton
                     
                    Josie, in memory of Chloie, April 1999 to May 28, 2014 
                     
                      
                     

                    To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                    From: feline-heart-noreply@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 02:07:48 -0700
                    Subject: [FH] Congestive Heart Failure

                     

                    Once a cat maxes out on Furosemide and they have to go to emergency for congestive heart failure, what drug is administered by emergency for stabilization if the cat has developed TOTAL DRUG RESISTANCE to furosemide and it is no longer causing any water loss? Keaton suffers from significant pulmonary edema EVERY TWO weeks since Sept. 20, 2014.
                     
                    Cardio is not back until Wednesday and Keaton has already been hospitalized two (2) times for HCM/CHF in the past 38 days on Sept. 20th and Oct. 11th.
                     
                    Is there any hope??? Please offer me your honest opinion!
                     
                    Should I consider euthanasia at this point after $9,000 in vet bills in past month?
                     
                    He is the love of my life and this is just heartbreaking to watch his RR go from 16 RR after last CRF and oxygen cage hospitalization on 10/11 to 32 RR on Saturday (his cardio sent him home with stronger dose 60 mg. per day of furosemide and 37.5 mg per day of Pimobendan this last Saturday.) He had some dusting of fluid on his x-rays this last Saturday but not enough to warrant hospitalization. His urinary output was only one small litter clump in the past 24 hours. His RR is rising and I am frightened and need to understand how he will be stabilized and with what drug if furosemide is now useless. I don't want to take him to emergency only to have them give him more worthless IV Lasix if he has built 100% resistance to it due to his last two three day hospital stays. I called emergency hospital and the doctor there would not tell me the treatment protocol and there are no cardiologists on call tonight.
                     
                    Is it worth keeping my baby boy alive if he has to be placed on an IV in an oxygen cage for $3,000 every two weeks? Is this any quality of life for a one year old cat?
                     
                    I feel sooooooooooo helpless. . . I need ALL the advice I can get as quickly as possible before it is too late.
                     
                    Thank you. 
                    Lee and Keaton
                     

                  • JOSIE NEWMAN
                    the whole thing seems unfair both to you and to Keaton. I am very very sorry. despite how you feel, if it were me I would try to call around and get other
                    Message 9 of 16 , Oct 28, 2014
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                      the whole thing seems unfair both to you and to Keaton. I am very very sorry. despite how you feel, if it were me I would try to call around and get other opinions. I assume you at an ER, not a cardiologist?

                      Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:42:25 -0700
                      Subject: RE: [FH] Congestive Heart Failure
                      From: lsvaluation@...
                      To: josienewman@...

                      Its pulmonary edema. At emergency now. Third time with heavy pulmonary edema in 30 days. They cannot seem to get right combo of meds and recommend euthanizing him now that IV catheter has been inserted. They will not take him out of oxygen cage so I can even hold him prior to death. Does that seem fair?

                      On Oct 28, 2014 6:24 AM, "JOSIE NEWMAN" <josienewman@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > hi Lee
                      >  
                      > if Keaton is worth it to you, then he is definitely worth "keeping around." I don't know the exact disease Keaton has, but Chloie, my dearly departed cardio girl, had a quick congestion reduction once she was on the right dose of pimobendan. more importantly, when she first went congestive, it took close to two months of slowly raising Lasix (furosemide) before finding the right amount. I had her tapped three times in nine days to draw fluid off her lungs. then it went to every nine days until her drugs were the right mixture. has Keaton been tapped at all? he would feel much  more comfy. also, the problem with raising the Lasix so much and so quickly is that you can only go so high before they become resistant to it. there are other drugs than Lasix which help, too. there is very strong one (torbram?) which you can get in US. are you in US? I am in Canada and we cannot get it here.  
                      >  
                      > although he is a very sick boy, vets make a lot of money from people like us so try not to let all the numbers of his breathing, drugs etc. get you derailed. it is very overwhelming and scary to negotiate the world of sick cardio kitties and the drs who "guide" us. as Emily said, don't expect Keaton to present perfectly -- he has a serious illness. find out what his normal is. that will not be the normal for a well cat or for any other cat.
                      >  
                      > hope things look up for you and Keaton
                      >  
                      > Josie, in memory of Chloie, April 1999 to May 28, 2014 
                      >  
                      >   
                      >  
                      > ________________________________
                      > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                      > From: feline-heart-noreply@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 02:07:48 -0700
                      > Subject: [FH] Congestive Heart Failure
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      > Once a cat maxes out on Furosemide and they have to go to emergency for congestive heart failure, what drug is administered by emergency for stabilization if the cat has developed TOTAL DRUG RESISTANCE to furosemide and it is no longer causing any water loss? Keaton suffers from significant pulmonary edema EVERY TWO weeks since Sept. 20, 2014.
                      >  
                      > Cardio is not back until Wednesday and Keaton has already been hospitalized two (2) times for HCM/CHF in the past 38 days on Sept. 20th and Oct. 11th.
                      >  
                      > Is there any hope??? Please offer me your honest opinion!
                      >  
                      > Should I consider euthanasia at this point after $9,000 in vet bills in past month?
                      >  
                      > He is the love of my life and this is just heartbreaking to watch his RR go from 16 RR after last CRF and oxygen cage hospitalization on 10/11 to 32 RR on Saturday (his cardio sent him home with stronger dose 60 mg. per day of furosemide and 37.5 mg per day of Pimobendan this last Saturday.) He had some dusting of fluid on his x-rays this last Saturday but not enough to warrant hospitalization. His urinary output was only one small litter clump in the past 24 hours. His RR is rising and I am frightened and need to understand how he will be stabilized and with what drug if furosemide is now useless. I don't want to take him to emergency only to have them give him more worthless IV Lasix if he has built 100% resistance to it due to his last two three day hospital stays. I called emergency hospital and the doctor there would not tell me the treatment protocol and there are no cardiologists on call tonight.
                      >  
                      > Is it worth keeping my baby boy alive if he has to be placed on an IV in an oxygen cage for $3,000 every two weeks? Is this any quality of life for a one year old cat?
                      >  
                      > I feel sooooooooooo helpless. . . I need ALL the advice I can get as quickly as possible before it is too late.
                      >  
                      > Thank you. 
                      > Lee and Keaton
                      >  
                      >
                      >

                    • Laurie Stead
                      I am so sorry for both you and Keaton.  I do know when I visited Boo in the ICU there was a circular opening you could put your arm through.  At least that
                      Message 10 of 16 , Oct 28, 2014
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I am so sorry for both you and Keaton.  I do know when I visited Boo in the ICU there was a circular opening you could put your arm through.  At least that way you can comfort him.  Listen to your head as to what is best. Look at Keaton's eyes and he will let you know if it's time. 

                        If that decision is made to euthanize, please go to the front desk and demand to talk to the person running the operation.  That will surely allow you to hold Keaton as he passes. That should not even be a question and whoever is saying otherwise, I am sorry is a jerk!

                        Praying for you both.
                        Laurie


                        On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 1:48 PM, "JOSIE NEWMAN josienewman@... [feline-heart]" <feline-heart-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                         

                        the whole thing seems unfair both to you and to Keaton. I am very very sorry. despite how you feel, if it were me I would try to call around and get other opinions. I assume you at an ER, not a cardiologist?

                        Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:42:25 -0700
                        Subject: RE: [FH] Congestive Heart Failure
                        From: lsvaluation@...
                        To: josienewman@...

                        Its pulmonary edema. At emergency now. Third time with heavy pulmonary edema in 30 days. They cannot seem to get right combo of meds and recommend euthanizing him now that IV catheter has been inserted. They will not take him out of oxygen cage so I can even hold him prior to death. Does that seem fair?
                        On Oct 28, 2014 6:24 AM, "JOSIE NEWMAN" <josienewman@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > hi Lee
                        >  
                        > if Keaton is worth it to you, then he is definitely worth "keeping around." I don't know the exact disease Keaton has, but Chloie, my dearly departed cardio girl, had a quick congestion reduction once she was on the right dose of pimobendan. more importantly, when she first went congestive, it took close to two months of slowly raising Lasix (furosemide) before finding the right amount. I had her tapped three times in nine days to draw fluid off her lungs. then it went to every nine days until her drugs were the right mixture. has Keaton been tapped at all? he would feel much  more comfy. also, the problem with raising the Lasix so much and so quickly is that you can only go so high before they become resistant to it. there are other drugs than Lasix which help, too. there is very strong one (torbram?) which you can get in US. are you in US? I am in Canada and we cannot get it here.  
                        >  
                        > although he is a very sick boy, vets make a lot of money from people like us so try not to let all the numbers of his breathing, drugs etc. get you derailed. it is very overwhelming and scary to negotiate the world of sick cardio kitties and the drs who "guide" us. as Emily said, don't expect Keaton to present perfectly -- he has a serious illness. find out what his normal is. that will not be the normal for a well cat or for any other cat.
                        >  
                        > hope things look up for you and Keaton
                        >  
                        > Josie, in memory of Chloie, April 1999 to May 28, 2014 
                        >  
                        >   
                        >  
                        > ________________________________
                        > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                        > From: feline-heart-noreply@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 02:07:48 -0700
                        > Subject: [FH] Congestive Heart Failure
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        >
                        > Once a cat maxes out on Furosemide and they have to go to emergency for congestive heart failure, what drug is administered by emergency for stabilization if the cat has developed TOTAL DRUG RESISTANCE to furosemide and it is no longer causing any water loss? Keaton suffers from significant pulmonary edema EVERY TWO weeks since Sept. 20, 2014.
                        >  
                        > Cardio is not back until Wednesday and Keaton has already been hospitalized two (2) times for HCM/CHF in the past 38 days on Sept. 20th and Oct. 11th.
                        >  
                        > Is there any hope??? Please offer me your honest opinion!
                        >  
                        > Should I consider euthanasia at this point after $9,000 in vet bills in past month?
                        >  
                        > He is the love of my life and this is just heartbreaking to watch his RR go from 16 RR after last CRF and oxygen cage hospitalization on 10/11 to 32 RR on Saturday (his cardio sent him home with stronger dose 60 mg. per day of furosemide and 37.5 mg per day of Pimobendan this last Saturday.) He had some dusting of fluid on his x-rays this last Saturday but not enough to warrant hospitalization. His urinary output was only one small litter clump in the past 24 hours. His RR is rising and I am frightened and need to understand how he will be stabilized and with what drug if furosemide is now useless. I don't want to take him to emergency only to have them give him more worthless IV Lasix if he has built 100% resistance to it due to his last two three day hospital stays. I called emergency hospital and the doctor there would not tell me the treatment protocol and there are no cardiologists on call tonight.
                        >  
                        > Is it worth keeping my baby boy alive if he has to be placed on an IV in an oxygen cage for $3,000 every two weeks? Is this any quality of life for a one year old cat?
                        >  
                        > I feel sooooooooooo helpless. . . I need ALL the advice I can get as quickly as possible before it is too late.
                        >  
                        > Thank you. 
                        > Lee and Keaton
                        >  
                        >
                        >


                      • lee.steidel
                        Thank you, Laurie. I finally DID get to hug him and kiss him his final goodbye after much protesting for three hours. The office manager told me that just
                        Message 11 of 16 , Oct 28, 2014
                        • 0 Attachment

                          Thank you, Laurie. I finally DID get to hug him and kiss him his final goodbye after much protesting for three hours. The office manager told me that just yesterday a client was bitten by her own dog while holding him for euthanasia at the same facility. The hospital was required to turn the animal over to animal control due to tetanus. Now that client can never obtain her pet's body.
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