Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!

Expand Messages
  • Pam Norman
    Laura, are you using Norvasc in liquid form? Pam ... -- When a cat shuts its eyes, you disappear. - Leonard Michaels
    Message 1 of 27 , Apr 6, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      Laura, are you using Norvasc in liquid form?

      Pam

      Laura Penny wrote:

      > Thanks for the good wishes, Pam.
      >
      > I hope you're having better luck cutting up those Norvasc tablets. Have you
      > thought about having it compounded in a chicken base or some other flavor?
      > I've never been able to pill any of my cats, so liquid is our only
      > alternative.
      >
      > Purrs to Ambrose.
      >
      > Laura, Lucky and Kassy
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: pam_norman@... <pam_norman@...>
      > To: feline-heart@egroups.com <feline-heart@egroups.com>
      > Date: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 12:03 PM
      > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!
      >
      > >Laura,
      > >
      > >I am so happy for both you & Kassey. Hoping some of the
      > >same stuff is catching for Ambrose.
      > >
      > >Pam
      > >> Hi everyone,
      > >>
      > >> Just got back from the cardiologist. Kassy's BP is down to 120 from 200!
      > >> She's been on Norvasc for 2 weeks. He says that's perfect. She was pretty
      > >> calm, so I don't think it was elevated from nerves.
      > >>
      > >> Her heart rate was 180, down from 210 last time.
      > >>
      > >> He reaffirmed his belief that the Norvasc won't hurt her kidneys.
      > >>
      > >> He wants her to get another BP check in the fall, then an echo in a year.
      > I
      > >> like his optimism!
      > >>
      > >> Laura
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > >> Win $1000 this Friday!
      > >> http://click.egroups.com/1/2860/3/_/_/_/954950031/
      > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > >>
      > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > >> feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > >Kodak Advantix Camera w/ Bag and 2 Rolls of Film, 60% off with
      > >FREE Shipping and a 30 Day Money-Back Guarantee at
      > >screaminghotdeals.com
      > >http://click.egroups.com/1/2714/3/_/_/_/954950589/
      > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > >
      > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the net.
      > Try @Backup FREE and recieve 300 points from mypoints.com Install now:
      > http://click.egroups.com/1/2345/3/_/_/_/955071939/
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com

      --

      When a cat shuts its eyes, you disappear.
      - Leonard Michaels
    • Miguel &Linda Irrgang
      You can grind the Norvasc tablets into a suspension and administer with a graduated dropper syringe you get from your vet. The recipe is 15 pills of 2.5 mgs
      Message 2 of 27 , Apr 7, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        You can grind the Norvasc tablets into a suspension and administer with a
        graduated dropper syringe you get from your vet. The recipe is 15 pills of 2.5
        mgs in 30 mls of water is our dosage and we give Pum .75 mls in the syringe
        dropper each day...does that help?

        Linda

        Laura Penny wrote:

        > Thanks for the good wishes, Pam.
        >
        > I hope you're having better luck cutting up those Norvasc tablets. Have you
        > thought about having it compounded in a chicken base or some other flavor?
        > I've never been able to pill any of my cats, so liquid is our only
        > alternative.
        >
        > Purrs to Ambrose.
        >
        > Laura, Lucky and Kassy
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: pam_norman@... <pam_norman@...>
        > To: feline-heart@egroups.com <feline-heart@egroups.com>
        > Date: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 12:03 PM
        > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!
        >
        > >Laura,
        > >
        > >I am so happy for both you & Kassey. Hoping some of the
        > >same stuff is catching for Ambrose.
        > >
        > >Pam
        > >> Hi everyone,
        > >>
        > >> Just got back from the cardiologist. Kassy's BP is down to 120 from 200!
        > >> She's been on Norvasc for 2 weeks. He says that's perfect. She was pretty
        > >> calm, so I don't think it was elevated from nerves.
        > >>
        > >> Her heart rate was 180, down from 210 last time.
        > >>
        > >> He reaffirmed his belief that the Norvasc won't hurt her kidneys.
        > >>
        > >> He wants her to get another BP check in the fall, then an echo in a year.
        > I
        > >> like his optimism!
        > >>
        > >> Laura
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > >> Win $1000 this Friday!
        > >> http://click.egroups.com/1/2860/3/_/_/_/954950031/
        > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > >>
        > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > >> feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > >Kodak Advantix Camera w/ Bag and 2 Rolls of Film, 60% off with
        > >FREE Shipping and a 30 Day Money-Back Guarantee at
        > >screaminghotdeals.com
        > >http://click.egroups.com/1/2714/3/_/_/_/954950589/
        > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > >
        > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the net.
        > Try @Backup FREE and recieve 300 points from mypoints.com Install now:
        > http://click.egroups.com/1/2345/3/_/_/_/955071939/
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      • Miguel &Linda Irrgang
        My cat Pumpkin has been taking Norvasc for about 4 yrs. about 1.5 yrs ago he started drinking what I think is an excessvie amt of water. He has HCM and all is
        Message 3 of 27 , Apr 7, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          My cat Pumpkin has been taking Norvasc for about 4 yrs. about 1.5 yrs ago he
          started drinking what I think is an excessvie amt of water. He has HCM and all
          is complicated bec about 2 yrs ago my husband was transferred to Chile and it's
          all a different ball game down here. Now he's having some pulmonary edema and
          pleural effusion. Have you heard of diltiazem? Other follks are using it and I
          don't know the difference betw the two drugs. I have read about very favorable
          results with it. Pum's BP is controlled with Norvasc/amlodipine but I don't know
          what the long term side-effects could be. I'm just sharing my current experience
          with you. Any info you have to share with me is greatly appreciated.
          Thx and good luck,
          Linda

          Laura Penny wrote:

          > Thanks, Melody! Taking it one day at a time...
          >
          > Laura
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Melody N Woods <newoods@...>
          > To: feline-heart@egroups.com <feline-heart@egroups.com>
          > Date: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 12:52 PM
          > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!
          >
          > >
          > >----- Original Message -----
          > >From: Laura Penny <lepenny@...>
          > >To: <feline-heart@egroups.com>
          > >Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 10:51 AM
          > >Subject: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!
          > >
          > >
          > >> Hi everyone,
          > >>
          > >> Just got back from the cardiologist. Kassy's BP is down to 120 from 200!
          > >> She's been on Norvasc for 2 weeks. He says that's perfect. She was pretty
          > >> calm, so I don't think it was elevated from nerves.
          > >>
          > >> Her heart rate was 180, down from 210 last time.
          > >>
          > >> He reaffirmed his belief that the Norvasc won't hurt her kidneys.
          > >>
          > >> He wants her to get another BP check in the fall, then an echo in a year.
          > >I
          > >> like his optimism!
          > >>
          > >> Laura
          > >>
          > >> Me tioo.....but it sounds great...
          > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > >> Win $1000 this Friday!
          > >> http://click.egroups.com/1/2860/3/_/_/_/954950031/
          > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > >>
          > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > >> feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > >@Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the net.
          > >Try @Backup FREE and recieve 300 points from mypoints.com Install now:
          > >http://click.egroups.com/1/2345/3/_/_/_/954953568/
          > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > >
          > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        • Jonathan Rosenberg
          ... I m not an expert on this, but I happen to have a reference to a journal article about diltiazem, which I ve attached to this message. Let me know if you
          Message 4 of 27 , Apr 7, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            -----Original Message-----
            > From: Miguel &Linda Irrgang [mailto:irrgang@...]
            > Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:21 AM
            > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!
            >
            >
            > My cat Pumpkin has been taking Norvasc for about 4 yrs. about 1.5
            > yrs ago he started drinking what I think is an excessvie amt of water.
            > He has HCM and all is complicated bec about 2 yrs ago my husband was
            > transferred to Chile and it's all a different ball game down here. Now
            > he's having some pulmonary edema and pleural effusion. Have you heard of
            > diltiazem? Other follks are using it and I don't know the difference
            > betw the two drugs. I have read about very favorable results with it.
            > Pum's BP is controlled with Norvasc/amlodipine but I don't know
            > what the long term side-effects could be. I'm just sharing my
            > current experience with you. Any info you have to share with me is
            > greatly appreciated.

            I'm not an expert on this, but I happen to have a reference to a journal
            article about diltiazem, which I've attached to this message.

            Let me know if you have trouble reding the attachment, or if you would like
            me to try to find the full text of the article.

            --
            JR
            & Tabby (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Lynx


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jonathan Rosenberg
            Oops ... I forgot attaachments won t make it through. Here s the text of the summary. let me know if you d like me to try to find the entire article. J Vet
            Message 5 of 27 , Apr 7, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              Oops ... I forgot attaachments won't make it through. Here's the text of
              the summary. let me know if you'd like me to try to find the entire
              article.

              J Vet Intern Med 1991 Sep-Oct;5(5):272-82

              Evaluation of the calcium channel-blocking agents diltiazem and verapamil
              for treatment of feline hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

              Bright JM, Golden AL, Gompf RE, Walker MA, Toal RL

              University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine, Knoxville
              37901-1071.

              To determine the efficacy of and clinical response to several pharmacologic
              agents for treatment of idiopathic hypertrophic cardiomyopathy in cats, 17
              symptomatic cats were randomized to treatment with either propranolol,
              diltiazem, or verapamil. Clinical, laboratory, radiographic,
              electrocardiographic, and echocardiographic data were obtained before
              treatment and after 3 and 6 months of chronic oral therapy. Too few of the
              cats receiving propranolol or verapamil survived long enough to obtain
              long-term data needed to make statistical comparisons between groups.
              However, all 12 cats ultimately treated with diltiazem became asymptomatic,
              and no adverse effects from this drug were noted in any of these cats.
              Treatment with diltiazem was associated with a significant reduction of
              pulmonary congestion assessed radiographically (P less than 0.01), and
              improved ventricular filling based on echocardiographic measurements of left
              atrial size (P less than 0.05), left ventricular internal diastolic
              dimension (P less than 0.05), and relaxation time index (P less than 0.001).
              There was also a drug-related improvement in jugular venous oxygen tension
              (P less than 0.001) and blood lactate concentration (P less than 0.01)
              suggesting improved peripheral perfusion in the cats receiving diltiazem.
              The results indicate that diltiazem provides an effective and apparently
              safe treatment for the management of feline hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

              Publication Types:

              Clinical trial
              Randomized controlled trial
              PMID: 1836234, UI: 92085254

              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Jonathan Rosenberg [mailto:jr40@...]
              > Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 4:18 PM
              > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Miguel &Linda Irrgang [mailto:irrgang@...]
              > > Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:21 AM
              > > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
              > > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!
              > >
              > >
              > > My cat Pumpkin has been taking Norvasc for about 4 yrs. about 1.5
              > > yrs ago he started drinking what I think is an excessvie amt of water.
              > > He has HCM and all is complicated bec about 2 yrs ago my husband was
              > > transferred to Chile and it's all a different ball game down here. Now
              > > he's having some pulmonary edema and pleural effusion. Have you heard of
              > > diltiazem? Other follks are using it and I don't know the difference
              > > betw the two drugs. I have read about very favorable results with it.
              > > Pum's BP is controlled with Norvasc/amlodipine but I don't know
              > > what the long term side-effects could be. I'm just sharing my
              > > current experience with you. Any info you have to share with me is
              > > greatly appreciated.
              >
              > I'm not an expert on this, but I happen to have a reference to a journal
              > article about diltiazem, which I've attached to this message.
              >
              > Let me know if you have trouble reding the attachment, or if you
              > would like
              > me to try to find the full text of the article.
              >
              > --
              > JR
              > & Tabby (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Lynx
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup
              > Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.
              > Install today:
              > http://click.egroups.com/1/2344/3/_/_/_/955139054/
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • diane@mathermotorsports.com
              ... Sorry guys, I turned off attachments for the list. I was afraid it would turn into an attachment fest. Two options: I can turn them back on and see how it
              Message 6 of 27 , Apr 7, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                >
                >
                >Let me know if you have trouble reding the attachment, or if you would like
                >me to try to find the full text of the article.


                Sorry guys, I turned off attachments for the list. I was afraid it
                would turn into an attachment fest.

                Two options: I can turn them back on and see how it goes or you can
                post them to the files section of our list at egroups. Go here to do
                so: http://www.onelist.com/files/feline-heart/

                Can everyone let me know what they think?

                Thanks,

                Diane
                74 MII Ghia
                http://www.74ghia.com

                Mustang II Registry!!!
                http://www.racer.net/mathermotors/registry/registry.html
              • Miguel &Linda Irrgang
                Hi Jonathan, Thx but it didn t seem to attach or else I couldn t figure out how to open and I ll ask my husband when he gets home. Thx alot for going thru the
                Message 7 of 27 , Apr 7, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Jonathan,
                  Thx but it didn't seem to attach or else I couldn't figure out how to open and
                  I'll ask my husband when he gets home.

                  Thx alot for going thru the trouble. I'm anxious to read it.

                  Linda

                  Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:

                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: Miguel &Linda Irrgang [mailto:irrgang@...]
                  > > Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:21 AM
                  > > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                  > > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > My cat Pumpkin has been taking Norvasc for about 4 yrs. about 1.5
                  > > yrs ago he started drinking what I think is an excessvie amt of water.
                  > > He has HCM and all is complicated bec about 2 yrs ago my husband was
                  > > transferred to Chile and it's all a different ball game down here. Now
                  > > he's having some pulmonary edema and pleural effusion. Have you heard of
                  > > diltiazem? Other follks are using it and I don't know the difference
                  > > betw the two drugs. I have read about very favorable results with it.
                  > > Pum's BP is controlled with Norvasc/amlodipine but I don't know
                  > > what the long term side-effects could be. I'm just sharing my
                  > > current experience with you. Any info you have to share with me is
                  > > greatly appreciated.
                  >
                  > I'm not an expert on this, but I happen to have a reference to a journal
                  > article about diltiazem, which I've attached to this message.
                  >
                  > Let me know if you have trouble reding the attachment, or if you would like
                  > me to try to find the full text of the article.
                  >
                  > --
                  > JR
                  > & Tabby (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Lynx
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup
                  > Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.
                  > Install today:
                  > http://click.egroups.com/1/2344/3/_/_/_/955139054/
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                • Miguel &Linda Irrgang
                  I would like to read the whole thing if it s not too much trouble. Another question: does diltiazem lower blood pressure? Bec Pum had really high blood
                  Message 8 of 27 , Apr 7, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I would like to read the whole thing if it's not too much trouble. Another
                    question: does diltiazem lower blood pressure? Bec Pum had really high blood
                    pressure before he started on Norvasc.

                    It does sound promising though. THX!!!! Linda

                    Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:

                    > Oops ... I forgot attaachments won't make it through. Here's the text of
                    > the summary. let me know if you'd like me to try to find the entire
                    > article.
                    >
                    > J Vet Intern Med 1991 Sep-Oct;5(5):272-82
                    >
                    > Evaluation of the calcium channel-blocking agents diltiazem and verapamil
                    > for treatment of feline hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
                    >
                    > Bright JM, Golden AL, Gompf RE, Walker MA, Toal RL
                    >
                    > University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine, Knoxville
                    > 37901-1071.
                    >
                    > To determine the efficacy of and clinical response to several pharmacologic
                    > agents for treatment of idiopathic hypertrophic cardiomyopathy in cats, 17
                    > symptomatic cats were randomized to treatment with either propranolol,
                    > diltiazem, or verapamil. Clinical, laboratory, radiographic,
                    > electrocardiographic, and echocardiographic data were obtained before
                    > treatment and after 3 and 6 months of chronic oral therapy. Too few of the
                    > cats receiving propranolol or verapamil survived long enough to obtain
                    > long-term data needed to make statistical comparisons between groups.
                    > However, all 12 cats ultimately treated with diltiazem became asymptomatic,
                    > and no adverse effects from this drug were noted in any of these cats.
                    > Treatment with diltiazem was associated with a significant reduction of
                    > pulmonary congestion assessed radiographically (P less than 0.01), and
                    > improved ventricular filling based on echocardiographic measurements of left
                    > atrial size (P less than 0.05), left ventricular internal diastolic
                    > dimension (P less than 0.05), and relaxation time index (P less than 0.001).
                    > There was also a drug-related improvement in jugular venous oxygen tension
                    > (P less than 0.001) and blood lactate concentration (P less than 0.01)
                    > suggesting improved peripheral perfusion in the cats receiving diltiazem.
                    > The results indicate that diltiazem provides an effective and apparently
                    > safe treatment for the management of feline hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
                    >
                    > Publication Types:
                    >
                    > Clinical trial
                    > Randomized controlled trial
                    > PMID: 1836234, UI: 92085254
                    >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: Jonathan Rosenberg [mailto:jr40@...]
                    > > Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 4:18 PM
                    > > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                    > > Subject: RE: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > From: Miguel &Linda Irrgang [mailto:irrgang@...]
                    > > > Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:21 AM
                    > > > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                    > > > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > My cat Pumpkin has been taking Norvasc for about 4 yrs. about 1.5
                    > > > yrs ago he started drinking what I think is an excessvie amt of water.
                    > > > He has HCM and all is complicated bec about 2 yrs ago my husband was
                    > > > transferred to Chile and it's all a different ball game down here. Now
                    > > > he's having some pulmonary edema and pleural effusion. Have you heard of
                    > > > diltiazem? Other follks are using it and I don't know the difference
                    > > > betw the two drugs. I have read about very favorable results with it.
                    > > > Pum's BP is controlled with Norvasc/amlodipine but I don't know
                    > > > what the long term side-effects could be. I'm just sharing my
                    > > > current experience with you. Any info you have to share with me is
                    > > > greatly appreciated.
                    > >
                    > > I'm not an expert on this, but I happen to have a reference to a journal
                    > > article about diltiazem, which I've attached to this message.
                    > >
                    > > Let me know if you have trouble reding the attachment, or if you
                    > > would like
                    > > me to try to find the full text of the article.
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > JR
                    > > & Tabby (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Lynx
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup
                    > > Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.
                    > > Install today:
                    > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2344/3/_/_/_/955139054/
                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup
                    > Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.
                    > Install today:
                    > http://click.egroups.com/1/2344/3/_/_/_/955140716/
                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                  • Jonathan Rosenberg
                    ... Let me see if I can find the entire article. I m also going to email you privately with the name & email address of someone I suggest you contact
                    Message 9 of 27 , Apr 7, 2000
                    • 0 Attachment
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Miguel &Linda Irrgang [mailto:irrgang@...]
                      > Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:29 PM
                      > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!

                      > I would like to read the whole thing if it's not too much trouble.

                      Let me see if I can find the entire article. I'm also going to email you
                      privately with the name & email address of someone I suggest you contact
                      regarding Pumpkin's condition. He is not a vet, but knows a lot about heart
                      conditions in cats & has some good contacts.

                      > Another question: does diltiazem lower blood pressure? Bec Pum had
                      > really high blood pressure before he started on Norvasc.

                      According to the following blurb (from
                      http://onhealth.com/conditions/resource/pharmacy/Multum2/item,69194.asp), it
                      is used to treat high blood pressure:

                      What is diltiazem?
                      • diltiazem is in a class of drugs called calcium channel
                      blockers. diltiazem relaxes (widens) your blood vessels
                      (veins and arteries), which makes it easier for your heart
                      to pump and reduces the workload on it.
                      • diltiazem is used to treat hypertension (high blood
                      pressure), to treat angina (chest pain), and to slow
                      unusually fast heartbeats.

                      > It does sound promising though. THX!!!! Linda

                      I really hope you find a way to help Pumpkin. Give him an extra kiss for
                      me.

                      --
                      JR
                      & Tabby (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Lynx
                    • Anyes Moscrip
                      ... Yes, it does. Lucie had hcm and high blood pressure and it controlled both for 6 of her 7 months with kidney and heart failure. Her blood pressure was
                      Message 10 of 27 , Apr 7, 2000
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Miguel &Linda Irrgang wrote:

                        > I would like to read the whole thing if it's not too much trouble. Another
                        > question: does diltiazem lower blood pressure? Bec Pum had really high blood
                        > pressure before he started on Norvasc.
                        >
                        > It does sound promising though. THX!!!! Linda
                        >
                        > Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:
                        >

                        Yes, it does. Lucie had hcm and high blood pressure and it controlled both for 6
                        of her 7 months with kidney and heart failure. Her blood pressure was high again
                        in the last month of her life and she was to add Atenolol to her Cardizem, but she
                        died from a seizure before we got to add it to her regimen.

                        Anyes and angel Lucie
                      • Miguel &Linda Irrgang
                        Do you know why your vet didn t prescribe Norvasc...I m trying to understand why Norvasc is being prescribed instead of diltiazem. Did you ever give aspirin
                        Message 11 of 27 , Apr 8, 2000
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Do you know why your vet didn't prescribe Norvasc...I'm trying to understand why
                          Norvasc is being prescribed instead of diltiazem. Did you ever give aspirin therapy to
                          your cat? What was your cat's diagnosis? How old was Lucie when all happened to her?

                          Sorry for alll the questions but I'm trying to find answers, info, etc.
                          Linda

                          Anyes Moscrip wrote:

                          > Miguel &Linda Irrgang wrote:
                          >
                          > > I would like to read the whole thing if it's not too much trouble. Another
                          > > question: does diltiazem lower blood pressure? Bec Pum had really high blood
                          > > pressure before he started on Norvasc.
                          > >
                          > > It does sound promising though. THX!!!! Linda
                          > >
                          > > Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:
                          > >
                          >
                          > Yes, it does. Lucie had hcm and high blood pressure and it controlled both for 6
                          > of her 7 months with kidney and heart failure. Her blood pressure was high again
                          > in the last month of her life and she was to add Atenolol to her Cardizem, but she
                          > died from a seizure before we got to add it to her regimen.
                          >
                          > Anyes and angel Lucie
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup
                          > Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.
                          > Install today:
                          > http://click.egroups.com/1/2344/3/_/_/_/955165762/
                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        • Anyes Moscrip
                          ... I am not sure I know all the ins and outs of the medicines. My understanding is that Norvasc is not for HCM, only for bp. Diltizem on the other hand is
                          Message 12 of 27 , Apr 8, 2000
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Miguel &Linda Irrgang wrote:

                            > Do you know why your vet didn't prescribe Norvasc...I'm trying to understand why
                            > Norvasc is being prescribed instead of diltiazem. Did you ever give aspirin therapy to
                            > your cat? What was your cat's diagnosis? How old was Lucie when all happened to her?
                            >
                            > Sorry for alll the questions but I'm trying to find answers, info, etc.
                            > Linda
                            >

                            I am not sure I know all the ins and outs of the medicines. My understanding is that
                            Norvasc is not for HCM, only for bp. Diltizem on the other hand is for both. I could be
                            wrong though.

                            Anyes
                          • Miguel &Linda Irrgang
                            I think you re right about that.
                            Message 13 of 27 , Apr 9, 2000
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I think you're right about that.

                              Anyes Moscrip wrote:

                              > Miguel &Linda Irrgang wrote:
                              >
                              > > Do you know why your vet didn't prescribe Norvasc...I'm trying to understand why
                              > > Norvasc is being prescribed instead of diltiazem. Did you ever give aspirin therapy to
                              > > your cat? What was your cat's diagnosis? How old was Lucie when all happened to her?
                              > >
                              > > Sorry for alll the questions but I'm trying to find answers, info, etc.
                              > > Linda
                              > >
                              >
                              > I am not sure I know all the ins and outs of the medicines. My understanding is that
                              > Norvasc is not for HCM, only for bp. Diltizem on the other hand is for both. I could be
                              > wrong though.
                              >
                              > Anyes
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > Save up to 57% on Electronics!
                              > Find incredible deals on overstocked items with Free shipping!
                              > http://click.egroups.com/1/2710/3/_/_/_/955249953/
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                            • Anyes Moscrip
                              Miguel &Linda Irrgang wrote: Did you ever give aspirin therapy to ... Hi Linda, I see I forgot to answer part of your questions. Lucie never got aspirin
                              Message 14 of 27 , Apr 9, 2000
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Miguel &Linda Irrgang wrote:
                                Did you ever give aspirin therapy to

                                > > > your cat? What was your cat's diagnosis? How old was Lucie when all happened to her?
                                > > >
                                > > > Sorry for alll the questions but I'm trying to find answers, info, etc.
                                > > > Linda
                                > > >

                                Hi Linda,
                                I see I forgot to answer part of your questions.
                                Lucie never got aspirin therapy. She was on antioxydants instead. Vit E, C and Selenium.
                                Lucie was diagnosed with HypertropicCardiomyopathy and high blood pressure on the cardiac
                                side, and Chronic kidney failure. It was a real balancing act to treat both diseases, with
                                the kidneys needing fluids and the heart not. Lucie was 13 yrs old when she first crashed with
                                acute kidney failure. She was on IV fluids for 4 days and then collapsed from heart failure,
                                which is when we discovered her hcm. She was then placed in the oxygen tank for 3 days, on
                                Lasix and heart medicine. At the end of the week, we were asked to come in and say when. For
                                the next hour, I prayed to St. Francis to give us a miracle if it was not her time to go, and
                                otherwise let her go peacefully on her own. We got to the hospital 2 hours later and not only
                                had Lucie's lungs and heart had cleared up, but she had escaped the oxygen tank and was
                                checking the ER out. She lived another 7 months and died of heart failure during a seizure.
                                The fluids put a lot of pressure on her heart.

                                Let me know if you have any other questions,
                                Anyes, angel Lucie, Georgina, 'Doc' and Angelica
                              • catwoman1@iprimus.com.au
                                Dear Jonathan, I was looking up some old posts and trying to get some information on propranolol. It is not the same as atenolol as I thought earlier. What is
                                Message 15 of 27 , Oct 19, 2000
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Dear Jonathan,
                                  I was looking up some old posts and trying to get some
                                  information on propranolol. It is not the same as atenolol as I
                                  thought earlier. What is diltiazem used for? And do you know of
                                  effects on kidneys with either or any of these drugs?
                                  Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.


                                  --- In feline-heart@egroups.com, "Jonathan Rosenberg" <jr40@r...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > Oops ... I forgot attaachments won't make it through. Here's the
                                  text of
                                  > the summary. let me know if you'd like me to try to find the entire
                                  > article.
                                  >
                                  > J Vet Intern Med 1991 Sep-Oct;5(5):272-82
                                  >
                                  > Evaluation of the calcium channel-blocking agents diltiazem and
                                  verapamil
                                  > for treatment of feline hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
                                  >
                                  > Bright JM, Golden AL, Gompf RE, Walker MA, Toal RL
                                  >
                                  > University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine, Knoxville
                                  > 37901-1071.
                                  >
                                  > To determine the efficacy of and clinical response to several
                                  pharmacologic
                                  > agents for treatment of idiopathic hypertrophic cardiomyopathy in
                                  cats, 17
                                  > symptomatic cats were randomized to treatment with either
                                  propranolol,
                                  > diltiazem, or verapamil. Clinical, laboratory, radiographic,
                                  > electrocardiographic, and echocardiographic data were obtained
                                  before
                                  > treatment and after 3 and 6 months of chronic oral therapy. Too few
                                  of the
                                  > cats receiving propranolol or verapamil survived long enough to
                                  obtain
                                  > long-term data needed to make statistical comparisons between
                                  groups.
                                  > However, all 12 cats ultimately treated with diltiazem became
                                  asymptomatic,
                                  > and no adverse effects from this drug were noted in any of these
                                  cats.
                                  > Treatment with diltiazem was associated with a significant
                                  reduction of
                                  > pulmonary congestion assessed radiographically (P less than 0.01),
                                  and
                                  > improved ventricular filling based on echocardiographic
                                  measurements of left
                                  > atrial size (P less than 0.05), left ventricular internal diastolic
                                  > dimension (P less than 0.05), and relaxation time index (P less
                                  than 0.001).
                                  > There was also a drug-related improvement in jugular venous oxygen
                                  tension
                                  > (P less than 0.001) and blood lactate concentration (P less than
                                  0.01)
                                  > suggesting improved peripheral perfusion in the cats receiving
                                  diltiazem.
                                  > The results indicate that diltiazem provides an effective and
                                  apparently
                                  > safe treatment for the management of feline hypertrophic
                                  cardiomyopathy.
                                  >
                                  > Publication Types:
                                  >
                                  > Clinical trial
                                  > Randomized controlled trial
                                  > PMID: 1836234, UI: 92085254
                                  >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: Jonathan Rosenberg [mailto:jr40@r...]
                                  > > Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 4:18 PM
                                  > > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                  > > Subject: RE: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > > From: Miguel &Linda Irrgang [mailto:irrgang@r...]
                                  > > > Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:21 AM
                                  > > > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                  > > > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > My cat Pumpkin has been taking Norvasc for about 4 yrs. about
                                  1.5
                                  > > > yrs ago he started drinking what I think is an excessvie amt of
                                  water.
                                  > > > He has HCM and all is complicated bec about 2 yrs ago my
                                  husband was
                                  > > > transferred to Chile and it's all a different ball game down
                                  here. Now
                                  > > > he's having some pulmonary edema and pleural effusion. Have you
                                  heard of
                                  > > > diltiazem? Other follks are using it and I don't know the
                                  difference
                                  > > > betw the two drugs. I have read about very favorable results
                                  with it.
                                  > > > Pum's BP is controlled with Norvasc/amlodipine but I don't know
                                  > > > what the long term side-effects could be. I'm just sharing my
                                  > > > current experience with you. Any info you have to share with me
                                  is
                                  > > > greatly appreciated.
                                  > >
                                  > > I'm not an expert on this, but I happen to have a reference to a
                                  journal
                                  > > article about diltiazem, which I've attached to this message.
                                  > >
                                  > > Let me know if you have trouble reding the attachment, or if you
                                  > > would like
                                  > > me to try to find the full text of the article.
                                  > >
                                  > > --
                                  > > JR
                                  > > & Tabby (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Lynx
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ----------------------------------------------
                                  --------------------------
                                  > > Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup
                                  > > Get automatic protection and access to your important computer
                                  files.
                                  > > Install today:
                                  > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2344/3/_/_/_/955139054/
                                  > > ----------------------------------------------
                                  --------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                • Mike & Linda Irrgang (Now in Jamaica!)
                                  one possible side effect of atenolol long term is hyperthyroidism from what i ve heard. ... From: catwoman1@iprimus.com.au [mailto:catwoman1@iprimus.com.au]
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Nov 3, 2000
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    one possible side effect of atenolol long term is hyperthyroidism from what
                                    i've heard.

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: catwoman1@... [mailto:catwoman1@...]
                                    Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 7:23 AM
                                    To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                    Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Kassy's BP is great!


                                    Dear Jonathan,
                                    I was looking up some old posts and trying to get some
                                    information on propranolol. It is not the same as atenolol as I
                                    thought earlier. What is diltiazem used for? And do you know of
                                    effects on kidneys with either or any of these drugs?
                                    Love, Voula and Pebbles and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.


                                    --- In feline-heart@egroups.com, "Jonathan Rosenberg" <jr40@r...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > Oops ... I forgot attaachments won't make it through. Here's the
                                    text of
                                    > the summary. let me know if you'd like me to try to find the entire
                                    > article.
                                    >
                                    > J Vet Intern Med 1991 Sep-Oct;5(5):272-82
                                    >
                                    > Evaluation of the calcium channel-blocking agents diltiazem and
                                    verapamil
                                    > for treatment of feline hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
                                    >
                                    > Bright JM, Golden AL, Gompf RE, Walker MA, Toal RL
                                    >
                                    > University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine, Knoxville
                                    > 37901-1071.
                                    >
                                    > To determine the efficacy of and clinical response to several
                                    pharmacologic
                                    > agents for treatment of idiopathic hypertrophic cardiomyopathy in
                                    cats, 17
                                    > symptomatic cats were randomized to treatment with either
                                    propranolol,
                                    > diltiazem, or verapamil. Clinical, laboratory, radiographic,
                                    > electrocardiographic, and echocardiographic data were obtained
                                    before
                                    > treatment and after 3 and 6 months of chronic oral therapy. Too few
                                    of the
                                    > cats receiving propranolol or verapamil survived long enough to
                                    obtain
                                    > long-term data needed to make statistical comparisons between
                                    groups.
                                    > However, all 12 cats ultimately treated with diltiazem became
                                    asymptomatic,
                                    > and no adverse effects from this drug were noted in any of these
                                    cats.
                                    > Treatment with diltiazem was associated with a significant
                                    reduction of
                                    > pulmonary congestion assessed radiographically (P less than 0.01),
                                    and
                                    > improved ventricular filling based on echocardiographic
                                    measurements of left
                                    > atrial size (P less than 0.05), left ventricular internal diastolic
                                    > dimension (P less than 0.05), and relaxation time index (P less
                                    than 0.001).
                                    > There was also a drug-related improvement in jugular venous oxygen
                                    tension
                                    > (P less than 0.001) and blood lactate concentration (P less than
                                    0.01)
                                    > suggesting improved peripheral perfusion in the cats receiving
                                    diltiazem.
                                    > The results indicate that diltiazem provides an effective and
                                    apparently
                                    > safe treatment for the management of feline hypertrophic
                                    cardiomyopathy.
                                    >
                                    > Publication Types:
                                    >
                                    > Clinical trial
                                    > Randomized controlled trial
                                    > PMID: 1836234, UI: 92085254
                                    >
                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > From: Jonathan Rosenberg [mailto:jr40@r...]
                                    > > Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 4:18 PM
                                    > > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                    > > Subject: RE: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > > From: Miguel &Linda Irrgang [mailto:irrgang@r...]
                                    > > > Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:21 AM
                                    > > > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                    > > > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Kassy's BP is great!
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > My cat Pumpkin has been taking Norvasc for about 4 yrs. about
                                    1.5
                                    > > > yrs ago he started drinking what I think is an excessvie amt of
                                    water.
                                    > > > He has HCM and all is complicated bec about 2 yrs ago my
                                    husband was
                                    > > > transferred to Chile and it's all a different ball game down
                                    here. Now
                                    > > > he's having some pulmonary edema and pleural effusion. Have you
                                    heard of
                                    > > > diltiazem? Other follks are using it and I don't know the
                                    difference
                                    > > > betw the two drugs. I have read about very favorable results
                                    with it.
                                    > > > Pum's BP is controlled with Norvasc/amlodipine but I don't know
                                    > > > what the long term side-effects could be. I'm just sharing my
                                    > > > current experience with you. Any info you have to share with me
                                    is
                                    > > > greatly appreciated.
                                    > >
                                    > > I'm not an expert on this, but I happen to have a reference to a
                                    journal
                                    > > article about diltiazem, which I've attached to this message.
                                    > >
                                    > > Let me know if you have trouble reding the attachment, or if you
                                    > > would like
                                    > > me to try to find the full text of the article.
                                    > >
                                    > > --
                                    > > JR
                                    > > & Tabby (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Lynx
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ----------------------------------------------
                                    --------------------------
                                    > > Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup
                                    > > Get automatic protection and access to your important computer
                                    files.
                                    > > Install today:
                                    > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2344/3/_/_/_/955139054/
                                    > > ----------------------------------------------
                                    --------------------------
                                    > >
                                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >



                                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                  • Penny Branham
                                    To All who looked for the poem - I don t think this site allows attachments. It was in my sent message, but not the one I received. Anyone know? Penny &
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jun 28, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      To All who looked for the poem - I don't think this site allows attachments. It was in my sent message, but not the one I received. Anyone know?

                                      Penny & Angel Snowball


                                      ---------------------------------
                                      Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • moonpye
                                      Hi Penny, Can you copy/paste the link to the page that the poem is on? or copy/paste the poem? As far as I know attachments are *not* allowed on most yahoo
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jun 28, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Hi Penny,

                                        Can you copy/paste the link to the page that the poem is on? or copy/paste
                                        the poem? As far as I know attachments are *not* allowed on most yahoo
                                        groups.

                                        Hugs,
                                        Candace


                                        On 6/28/07, Penny Branham <pennybranham@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > To All who looked for the poem - I don't think this site allows
                                        > attachments. It was in my sent message, but not the one I received. Anyone
                                        > know?
                                        >
                                        > Penny & Angel Snowball
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • S Hilton
                                        For those of you tracking chest taps, Abu had his 6th one today (since March 12th). They are now about 2 weeks apart, and we routinely remove 210-230cc of
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Jun 28, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          For those of you tracking chest taps, Abu had his 6th one today (since March 12th). They are now about 2 weeks apart, and we routinely remove 210-230cc of fluid. (we removed 230cc of milky fluid today, and he weighed 1/2 lb less afterwards).

                                          We are lucky --- each time Abu stoically sits unrestrained (we do steady him and I usually rub his face and talk to him), the doctor and tech slowly extracts the fluid, and it's over. Takes about 10 minutes. Afterwards, Abu sat on the table for a minute or two --- looked like he was thinking or getting use to the feel of the fluid being gone, and then he walked over to me and stood up and put his arms on my shoulders to be picked up.

                                          I'm not crazy about the procedure but it certainly doesn't seem to bother Abu. In fact, he is very cooperative.

                                          Susan (and Abu)


                                          ---------------------------------
                                          Building a website is a piece of cake.
                                          Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • jamander33
                                          Wow, it as if he knows what needs to be done and he just buckles down and does it. That is GREAT that he is so cooperative. You are incredibly fortunate. Tell
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Jun 28, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Wow, it as if he knows what needs to be done and he just buckles
                                            down and does it. That is GREAT that he is so cooperative. You are
                                            incredibly fortunate. Tell Abu to keep up the good work! Amanda and
                                            Griffin

                                            > For those of you tracking chest taps, Abu had his 6th one today
                                            (since March 12th). They are now about 2 weeks apart, and we
                                            routinely remove 210-230cc of fluid. (we removed 230cc of milky
                                            fluid today, and he weighed 1/2 lb less afterwards).
                                            >
                                            > We are lucky --- each time Abu stoically sits unrestrained (we
                                            do steady him and I usually rub his face and talk to him), the
                                            doctor and tech slowly extracts the fluid, and it's over. Takes
                                            about 10 minutes. Afterwards, Abu sat on the table for a minute or
                                            two --- looked like he was thinking or getting use to the feel of
                                            the fluid being gone, and then he walked over to me and stood up and
                                            put his arms on my shoulders to be picked up.
                                            >
                                            > I'm not crazy about the procedure but it certainly doesn't seem
                                            to bother Abu. In fact, he is very cooperative.
                                            >
                                            > Susan (and Abu)
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ---------------------------------
                                            > Building a website is a piece of cake.
                                            > Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                          • moonpye
                                            Hi Susan, What a sweet, good boy Abu is :) Best to you both! Hugs, Candace ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Jun 28, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hi Susan,

                                              What a sweet, good boy Abu is :)

                                              Best to you both!

                                              Hugs,
                                              Candace


                                              On 6/28/07, S Hilton <tlpwtm1@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Afterwards, Abu sat on the table for a minute or two --- looked like he
                                              > was thinking or getting use to the feel of the fluid being gone, and then he
                                              > walked over to me and stood up and put his arms on my shoulders to be picked
                                              > up.
                                              >
                                              > I'm not crazy about the procedure but it certainly doesn't seem to bother
                                              > Abu. In fact, he is very cooperative.
                                              >
                                              > Susan (and Abu)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Sue at MAGDRL
                                              Susan, If the fluid is milky, that means it contains chyle which is a fluid from the lymphatic system. Chyle is often controlled by giving 500mg of rutin
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Jun 29, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Susan,

                                                If the fluid is milky, that means it contains chyle which is a fluid from
                                                the lymphatic system. Chyle is often controlled by giving 500mg of rutin
                                                daily. The brand of rutin with the fewest fillers is GNC. It's a big pill
                                                and most people grind it up & add it to food. A few people on this list
                                                have had luck with it where it's eliminated the need for the chest taps.

                                                It's wonderful that Abu doesn't have a problem with them and he's so
                                                cooperative!


                                                Sue & Angel Pepper


                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: "S Hilton" <tlpwtm1@...>
                                                To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 5:37 PM
                                                Subject: [FH] Fluid in the chest/chest taps


                                                > For those of you tracking chest taps, Abu had his 6th one today (since
                                                March 12th). They are now about 2 weeks apart, and we routinely remove
                                                210-230cc of fluid. (we removed 230cc of milky fluid today, and he weighed
                                                1/2 lb less afterwards).
                                                >
                                                > We are lucky --- each time Abu stoically sits unrestrained (we do steady
                                                him and I usually rub his face and talk to him), the doctor and tech slowly
                                                extracts the fluid, and it's over. Takes about 10 minutes. Afterwards, Abu
                                                sat on the table for a minute or two --- looked like he was thinking or
                                                getting use to the feel of the fluid being gone, and then he walked over to
                                                me and stood up and put his arms on my shoulders to be picked up.
                                                >
                                                > I'm not crazy about the procedure but it certainly doesn't seem to
                                                bother Abu. In fact, he is very cooperative.
                                                >
                                                > Susan (and Abu)
                                                >
                                              • Janie
                                                Susan is he on Rutin. I may have missed this but milky is what Blackie had and Rutin helped? Janie
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Jun 29, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Susan is he on Rutin. I may have missed this but milky is what Blackie
                                                  had and Rutin helped? Janie
                                                • Janie
                                                  You know I have been with my cat for chest tap and another who had cancer and she had her stomach area tapped and they just held her. They didnt act in pain.
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Jun 29, 2007
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    You know I have been with my cat for chest tap and another who had
                                                    cancer and she had her stomach area tapped and they just held her. They
                                                    didnt act in pain. No medication was used. They let us go in for
                                                    anything I can even watch the surgery if I want. One of the new drs
                                                    thought I was a doctor!!!!! we still laugh about that. I just read all
                                                    I can and after having 12 cats and all the illness I know a few things
                                                    from groups like this. This is the most wonderful group and all my
                                                    heart kittys are gone but I cant pull away as I think someone might
                                                    need something or Im still keeping track of some. We have 4 cats left
                                                    over the yrs the most we had was 8 and a dog. One has fiv postive but
                                                    he is healthy. Im sorry for some today as they are in pain and Chris
                                                    is still with us and that was good news even went out in the garden.
                                                    Hope all have a good day. Janie
                                                  • Penny Branham
                                                    Janie, Your input and others - it is wonderful to have a site like this. I think it gives the heart kitties much more of a chance for quality treatment and
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Jun 29, 2007
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Janie,

                                                      Your input and others - it is wonderful to have a site like this. I think it gives the heart kitties much more of a chance for quality treatment and prolonged life many times, and I can't even begin to tell you what it has done for me. I come from families that do not understand such deep love and compassion for a four legged companion. How much they miss!!! It has been a positive affirmation for me as an individual as well as making the world a better place for my kitties and others. So, pass it on!!!

                                                      Hugs and PUrrrrrs - Penny & Angel Snowball

                                                      Janie <sockster@...> wrote:
                                                      You know I have been with my cat for chest tap and another who had
                                                      cancer and she had her stomach area tapped and they just held her. They
                                                      didnt act in pain. No medication was used. They let us go in for
                                                      anything I can even watch the surgery if I want. One of the new drs
                                                      thought I was a doctor!!!!! we still laugh about that. I just read all
                                                      I can and after having 12 cats and all the illness I know a few things
                                                      from groups like this. This is the most wonderful group and all my
                                                      heart kittys are gone but I cant pull away as I think someone might
                                                      need something or Im still keeping track of some. We have 4 cats left
                                                      over the yrs the most we had was 8 and a dog. One has fiv postive but
                                                      he is healthy. Im sorry for some today as they are in pain and Chris
                                                      is still with us and that was good news even went out in the garden.
                                                      Hope all have a good day. Janie






                                                      ---------------------------------
                                                      Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
                                                      Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • Leah Ferron
                                                      Susan, I do not want to alarm you but milky fluid from the chest is not normal. Did the vet say anything when they saw this? Did they suggest any testing on
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Jun 29, 2007
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Susan,

                                                        I do not want to alarm you but milky fluid from the chest is not normal. Did the vet say anything when they saw this? Did they suggest any testing on the fluid. The milky fluid has a good chance of being Chyle. My Alec had chylous pleural effusion. I would talk to your vet about having the fluid tested for chyly. If it is chyle or they can tell you by relative certainity that it is chyle without testing, you need to treat Abu with rutin as Sue already said. I agree with the GNC brand at 500mg per day. They are big pills but they break and crush easily. They do have a smell but no taste as I remember. If Abu is not already on spiro, you may want to ask about adding that to his regimen too.

                                                        Again, not to scare you but chylous pleural effusion is not to be taken lightly, you need to know this. It needs to be treated. It is a condition that can come about from heart disease or others things like cancer or spontaneously. If you do a google search on chylous pleaural effusion you will get some info that should be read. It can be life-threatening and not always treatable. Our group has had pretty good success with rutin though.

                                                        Leah and her cats and Angel Alec




                                                        ---------------------------------
                                                        Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
                                                        Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • Leah Ferron
                                                        This was meant for the group too. S Hilton wrote: After reading the following email from Leah, and some earlier postings, we decided to do
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Jul 16, 2007
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          This was meant for the group too.

                                                          S Hilton <tlpwtm1@...> wrote:
                                                          After reading the following email from Leah, and some earlier postings, we decided to do a chest tap from Abu's left side AND right side. As usual he was very patient, and sat there calmly while we poked and prodded. He doesn't even flinch when the needle goes in. Again, we got very little from the usual side -- 50cc. But, we pulled 150cc from the other side. I am guessing that the permeable membrane between both sides of the chest isn't so permeable anymore --- from the chyle scarring, perhaps?

                                                          Anyway, I'm hoping that the Rutin is slowing the fluid buildup, which might explain why we are getting less from the one side. We'll know more in the next couple of weeks.

                                                          Regardless, Abu is climbing and jumping on everything --- tables, counters, cat trees --- as if he's started another of his "lives". He's obviously feeling quite good and is very happy with life at the moment.

                                                          Thanks, Leah, for the Rutin recommendation.

                                                          Susan (and Abu)


                                                          Leah Ferron <leahandhercats@...> wrote:
                                                          Susan,

                                                          Anything is possible but I would not think the Rutin is working that quickly. What kinds of problems did you run into today? Is it that they couldn't get fluid? Or wouldn't Abu let them? If they had trouble getting the fluid, did they try both sides of the chest? If so, and you couldn't get to the fluid then the chyle may already be causing pockets from the webbing it creates with scar tissue. The fluid that they got out is probably still chyle just with more blood in it. What did the vet say when they did the tap? Keep giving the rutin and the duiretics no matter what. No matter how much fluid you got out of Abu, it is helpful.

                                                          Leah and Angel Alec

                                                          S Hilton <tlpwtm1@...> wrote:
                                                          Abu had tap last Thursday, and we drew off about 230cc. He started 250mg Rutin (2xday) several days ago. He was exhibiting the labored breathing again and the chest xray this a.m. showed about the same fluid levels as last week before that draw. The tap today did not go well, and we didn't get much fluid out.

                                                          My question: the fluid in the past was very milky white, or slightly tinged with blood. Today is was very bloody and watery. Could the Rutin have blocked the Chyle buildup so quickly? And, if so, just what is that fluid?

                                                          Susan

                                                          ---------------------------------


                                                          ---------------------------------
                                                          Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                                                          in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.


                                                          ---------------------------------
                                                          Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

                                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.