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HCM and Vaccines?

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  • mom2thechickens
    Hello,I m new here. My 6 yr old, neutered male (mixed breed, born with stub tail like Manx or American bobtail), went in for his routine checkup and vaccines
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 22 9:04 PM
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      Hello,I'm new here. My 6 yr old, neutered male (mixed breed, born with stub tail like Manx or American bobtail), went in for his routine checkup and vaccines and we instead found out he developed a grade 3 heart murmur. This lead to his HCM diagnosis via x-rays. Our vet is fantastic and doing everything she can, but a cardiologist is not an option where we live.

      Our vet is concerned over the suddenness and severity because he did not even a heart murmur 6 months ago. We tested for hyper-thyroid and that came back negative.

      Currently, he takes a half a baby Aspirin 2x a week in an effort to prevent
      throwing a clot and saddle thrombosis. He also takes Enalapril daily.

      At this point, I just feel overwhelmed trying to absorb all the information. I'm researching the supplements, food, etc. (He currently eats dry, corn wheat & soy free due to another cat's allergies.)

      I do have a specific question regarding vaccines.
      Before his HCM diagnosis, he was an indoor-outdoor cat. (With the heat and humidity, he's been indoors with the air conditioning since his diagnoisis. He is NOT happy about this and seriously chews on all sorts of furniture and develops OCD symptoms when he cannot go outdoors.) We went ahead with his rabies shot, but are holding off several weeks for FVRCP and FeLV because of concern about stressing his system if he got all at once. Is there any research on whether vaccines stress the cat's immune system with HCM and cause adverse effects? Also, do you allow your HCM cats outdoors?

      Thank you,
      Katie & Fuzz




    • J. R.
      Hi. We have a young female HCM diagnosed at ~6months age with grade 3 murmur confirmed with echocardiogram. If an echo is possible in your area (can be via
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 22 11:49 PM
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        Hi. We have a young female HCM diagnosed at ~6months age with grade 3 murmur confirmed with echocardiogram. If an echo is possible in your area (can be via internal med specialist if cardiologist not local...they can even refer out images for reading...) try to do since it will give you the most accurate idea of what's going on a will help monitor change.

        To your question re shots, our HCM girl was outdoors originally when we found her, and we transitioned her to indoor/outdoor and now indoor only since there are predators like fox/coyote here as well as ticks, other cats etc. When she was outdoors the vet gave all shots and gave them all at same time...not our fav way to handle shots since you can't tell which if any cause a reaction.

        She is due for annual shots now and dr suggested we give only 4in1, skip leukemia and rabies updates since she's no longer at risk. 

        We are also discussing getting the killed 4in1 instead of the live vaccine. Something you might want to ask about.

        Our other girl cat has epilepsy...but prior to that onset she had problems when given the live vaccine (stopped eating/drinking, ran fever). The killed vaccine is used on pregnant queens so it's safe, though not as readily found at vet offices...it may be special order. Last year if memory serves Dr. Foster's sold it...but not as a single vaccine think it was a tray. Sometimes the shelters will have or will share. Worth asking about.

        Our vet's take was with all situations it's a matter of risk. Is the kitty at risk due to likelihood of exposure. Which is more risky, not having the inoculation or the possibility of something happening....with our epileptic girl we risk setting off seizures...which are currently controlled. Sane for HCM girl...

        One more thing, we postponed giving our epi girl her shot for 6+ months after her initial seizures both to gain control and to not introduce another variable...it's not a bad rule of thumb...let the meds stabilize in the system or a while before doing any shots.

        Not sure any of this helps...
        You'll make the right choice!
        Best regards,
        JR & Crew



        On Friday, August 22, 2014 9:04 PM, "mom2thechickens@... [feline-heart]" <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


         
        Hello,I'm new here. My 6 yr old, neutered male (mixed breed, born with stub tail like Manx or American bobtail), went in for his routine checkup and vaccines and we instead found out he developed a grade 3 heart murmur. This lead to his HCM diagnosis via x-rays. Our vet is fantastic and doing everything she can, but a cardiologist is not an option where we live.

        Our vet is concerned over the suddenness and severity because he did not even a heart murmur 6 months ago. We tested for hyper-thyroid and that came back negative.

        Currently, he takes a half a baby Aspirin 2x a week in an effort to prevent
        throwing a clot and saddle thrombosis. He also takes Enalapril daily.

        At this point, I just feel overwhelmed trying to absorb all the information. I'm researching the supplements, food, etc. (He currently eats dry, corn wheat & soy free due to another cat's allergies.)

        I do have a specific question regarding vaccines.
        Before his HCM diagnosis, he was an indoor-outdoor cat. (With the heat and humidity, he's been indoors with the air conditioning since his diagnoisis. He is NOT happy about this and seriously chews on all sorts of furniture and develops OCD symptoms when he cannot go outdoors.) We went ahead with his rabies shot, but are holding off several weeks for FVRCP and FeLV because of concern about stressing his system if he got all at once. Is there any research on whether vaccines stress the cat's immune system with HCM and cause adverse effects? Also, do you allow your HCM cats outdoors?

        Thank you,
        Katie & Fuzz






      • CLPlatts
        Sorry this is long.Just one opinionated crazy old cat ladies views. That s a tough question and I m sure I ll take some heat for my answer but I no longer get
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 23 9:20 AM
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          Sorry this is long…Just one opinionated crazy old cat ladies views.

          That’s a tough question and I’m sure I’ll take some heat for my answer but I no longer get any vaccines for any of my cats that are not required by law.

          I have 5 with a predisposition to HCM, an additional 3 with heart murmurs and one with a generalized autoimmune/neurological disorder (He was also just diagnosed with insulin dep. Diabetes)

          Back in the day I used to get all the shots that were considered beneficial and the boosters. Over a 10 year period I lost 3 cats to injection site cancer.

          Of course this was when the internet was in its infancy and information was hard to get.(1980’s) Over the next few years I did find some information not only about pets but we people too that caused me to re-think my ideas that vaccines were good things.

           

          One of the most frightening things out there today is the recommended change in location for vets to vaccinate our cats. Today science recommends giving shots in either a rear leg or low on the shoulder in a front leg. Why??? Well this way if the cat developes cancer they can more easily treat it by amputating a leg!!! Really??? Should we not be looking at WHY cats are getting cancer FROM these vaccinations???

           

          The next thing is, does this stuff really work? There are lots of articles out there both for and against. I’ve read many and just for myself have decided against. Why? Well I read enough peer reviewed information indicating that at best many of these vaccines are only about 50% effective. Also once your cat has been vaccinated the immunity should, if it’s working properly, last the cats life and not need a ‘booster’ These things are especially true if your cat is indoor only or is not exposed to feral cats which may have compromised immune systems.

           

          I’ve been rescuing cats since the 1960’s and the only cat I ever had that had any of the deadly diseases we vaccinate for was a feral that took a total of 4 years (2 outside and 2 inside) to turn into a house cat. When I finally took Spook to the vet to be neutered, vaccinated and vet checked so he could finally totally move in to the main house they told me he had at best a year to live and that there was nothing conventional medicine could do. That actually began my odyssey toward more natural pet care.

           

          They told me my cat was highly contagious (He had FLV) and that I should get him his own set of dishes, change my clothes and wash my exposed skin lest some of his saliva get on me and one of my other cats lick that exact spot. Remember your talking about the times when most vets were putting any viral cat down. Thankfully today we’ve learned that most cats can live mostly normal lives with these diseases. In one respect at least we’ve come a long way. Spook lived 4 years past the grim future the vet gave him in large part I feel to my totally changing how I care for my pets and because of them, myself.

           

          Do I blame the vet for the information she gave me? NO. I blame the drug companies who pump huge sums of money into both Veterinary and human medical schools. Most of the course study in any kind of medical school is provided by drug company funded studies and those promote the use of the drugs they manufacture rather than finding a cause and curing a malady. Controlling symptoms is not an answer. Vaccines are much the same. If you look at this table from a group of 14 studies you can see what we’re doing to our kids and our pets are well on the way to the same thing. Actually the up to date numbers are 49 vaccinations by age 6. More is not necessarily a good thing!

           

          >>>"The United States has the highest number of mandated vaccines for children under 5 in the world (36, double the Western world average of 18), the highest autism rate in the world (1 in 110 children, 10 times or more the rate of some other Western countries), but only places 34th in the world for its children under 5 mortality rate. What’s going on?"

          One table provides particularly concerning data:

          VACCINE SCHEDULES, AUTISM RATES,
          AND UNDER 5 MORTALITY FOR SELECT COUNTRIES

          Country

          # of Mandatory Vaccines
          (<5 years old)

          Autism Rate

          US Autism Rate Multiplier

          Mortality Rates per 1,000 Children Under 5 years old

          Mortality Rate Worldwide Rank

          United States

          36

          1 in 110

           

          7.8

          34 (High)

          Iceland

          11

          1 in 1,100

          7.3x

          3.9

          1 (Lowest)

          Sweden

          11

          1 in 862

          5.7x

          4.0

          2

          Japan

          11

          1 in 475

          3.2x

          4.2

          4

          Norway

          13

          1 in 2,000

          13.3x

          4.4

          5

          Finland

          12

          1 in 719

          4.8x

          4.7

          6

          France

          17

          1 in 613

          4.1x

          5.2

          11

          Israel

          11

          1 in 1,000

          6.7x

          5.7

          17

          Denmark

          12

          1 in 2,200

          14.6x

          5.8

          18

           

          <<<  

           

           

          When I was a child cats got NO vaccinations at all…Amazingly they lived just as long  (and in some cases longer) as cats today who get the recommended 10 (That’s right ten! Five of which recommend yearly boosters) So my answer to you would be no to anything but what is required by law and if your state allows you could even opt for a blood titer to test immunity. Some states will take this in lieu of rabies vaccination but you have to check on your state. Any time an animal (or any one) has a compromised system we need to double and triple think non essential medications and vaccines. Don’t even get me started on heartworm…

           

          As to your cat missing the outdoors is building a catio an option? It doesn’t have to be elaborate it can be a porch or deck that you convert. I use screen backed with hardware cloth so they can’t claw holes and it makes it sturdier so outside critters can’t get in either.

           

          Cherie P

          Rescuing cats for 50+ years and counting.

           

           

        • Elfinmyst
          Hi My cats get the triple vaccine plus leukaemia until they are 8 and then the triple. We don t have rabies in the UK. I did have one cat had a vaccination
          Message 4 of 4 , Aug 23 1:47 PM
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            Hi

            My cats get the triple vaccine plus leukaemia until they are 8 and then the triple. We don't have rabies in the UK. I did have one cat had a vaccination likely induced tumour and since then mine are vaccinated in the rear leg muscle. I`m sorry to hear of your cat, and understand te difficulty of diagnosis. Is there a mobile cardiologist? Keep an eye on breathing and looks for changes like double breaths and stomach muscles drawing in. Count when sleeping gently and note what is normal. Under 30 is normal, over 30 alarm and over 40 emergency. 

            Lyn

            www.furkids-selkirks.com:-)
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