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Re: 13yo RCM - lasix not working

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  • elfinmyst
    Hi Catie Yes, you can use the two together. I would ask for it straight away. Also ask about vetmedin (pimobendan) or atenolol or about increasing Fortekor as
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 27, 2013
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      Hi Catie

      Yes, you can use the two together. I would ask for it straight away. Also
      ask about vetmedin (pimobendan) or atenolol or about increasing Fortekor
      as it sounds like she needs something to help her heart work properly.
      Usually when heart failure occurs again, they try adding a new medication. She
      also needs a potassium supplement on that dose of lasix.

      Trixi at her worst had
      fortekor a day
      vetmedin twice
      atenolol 5mg twice
      spiro 8mg twice
      lasix 5mg every 4 hour.
      kaminox (potassium supplement)
      plavix quarter tab daily.


      Lyn:)

      _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • mainecoonkatze
      Hi all, I spoke with the vet again today and she s going back in for bloods tomorrow. I m fairly confident that her current problems are due to overmedication
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 29, 2013
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        Hi all,

        I spoke with the vet again today and she's going back in for bloods tomorrow. I'm fairly confident that her current problems are due to overmedication with furosemide combined with no potassium supplementation. She's been weak, lethargic, off her food (and that's HUGE -- she's a MASSIVE eater) and just plain miserable. When asleep, her breathing's perfect, but if she has to walk even a few steps, she's exhausted!

        I got permission to cut her furosemide back just for today, so I had dosed her at 7.30am. She was sick and miserable until about 3pm, when she went outside and walked/sat in the backyard for about 90 mins. This is roughly the time when I would have remedicated her, but I held off, because she hadn't been interested in the world around her all day. About 4.45pm onwards to now (almost 7pm) she's been eating, alert, and happy and purring. I am going to have to redose her, because she does have the heart disease, but to me this pretty much conclusively proves that the further we got from the last dose, the more her potassium levels recovered and the better she felt.

        The vet hospital I take her to hasn't prescribed spiro for cats, only dogs -- spiro is really uncommon in Australia with cats, Vetmedin is unheard of, and Atenolol isn't given to HCM/RCM cats at all once they're symptomatic.

        But I'm going to ask for her furosemide to be cut back, spiro to be added, and also potassium supplementation, that's after her bloods have been taken.

        Wish us luck!

        Catie and Kitty, and Tuppenny, her last surviving daughter, who is starved for attention until this is all sorted!
      • elfinmyst
        Hi Catie I think you are onto something with the potassium. Spiro is not as bad for potassium so hopefully you will get a balance. Vetmedin is called
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 29, 2013
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          Hi Catie

          I think you are onto something with the potassium. Spiro is not as bad for
          potassium so hopefully you will get a balance. Vetmedin is called
          pimobendan if that helps.

          Lyn:)

          _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • r schu
          We just started supplementing May with tumil k, potassium gluconate, as her lasix was doubled, her fluids reduced to none, and I m restricting the renal kibble
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 30, 2013
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            We just started supplementing May with tumil k, potassium gluconate, as her lasix was doubled, her fluids reduced to none, and I'm restricting the renal kibble (that also has potassium) as kibble can dry them out.  So far so good, but 1/2 tsp of the gel is alot to get in her, so I'm thinking of switching to the powder when this runs out.  A week after starting tumil k her potassium was up, but still well within range.

            -Lee and May
            ========================
            Hi all,

            I spoke with the vet again today and she's going back in for bloods
            tomorrow. I'm fairly confident that her current problems are due to
            overmedication with furosemide combined with no potassium
            supplementation. She's been weak, lethargic, off her food (and that's
            HUGE -- she's a MASSIVE eater) and just plain miserable. When asleep,
            her breathing' s perfect, but if she has to walk even a few steps, she's
            exhausted!

            I got permission to cut her furosemide back just for today, so I had
            dosed her at 7.30am. She was sick and miserable until about 3pm, when
            she went outside and walked/sat in the backyard for about 90 mins. This
            is roughly the time when I would have remedicated her, but I held off,
            because she hadn't been interested in the world around her all day.
            About 4.45pm onwards to now (almost 7pm) she's been eating, alert, and
            happy and purring. I am going to have to redose her, because she does
            have the heart disease, but to me this pretty much conclusively proves
            that the further we got from the last dose, the more her potassium
            levels recovered and the better she felt.

            The vet hospital I take her to hasn't prescribed spiro for cats, only
            dogs -- spiro is really uncommon in Australia with cats, Vetmedin is
            unheard of, and Atenolol isn't given to HCM/RCM cats at all once they're
            symptomatic.

            But I'm going to ask for her furosemide to be cut back, spiro to be
            added, and also potassium supplementation, that's after her bloods have
            been taken.

            Wish us luck!

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • r schu
            From what I ve been told by our cardiologist, the kidney can develop a sort of tolerance to lasix.  Though sprio is not as strong a diuretic, it is potassium
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 30, 2013
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              From what I've been told by our cardiologist, the kidney can develop a sort of tolerance to lasix.  Though sprio is not as strong a diuretic, it is potassium sparing from what I've heard, and our cardiologist says it works in a different part of the kidney tubules.

              Has anyone also heard this?

              -Lee and May
              ==========
              Hi Catie

              I think you are onto something with the potassium. Spiro is not as bad for
              potassium so hopefully you will get a balance. Vetmedin is called
              pimobendan if that helps.

              -Lyn

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • mainecoonkatze
              So I got her bloods back, and EVERYTHING was within normal limits.  Even the potassium.  So it's not that. Problem is, that so long as her
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 1, 2013
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                So I got her bloods back, and EVERYTHING was within normal limits.  Even the potassium.  So it's not that. Problem is, that so long as her breathing is within normal limits, and her bloods are within normal limits, and her X-rays are clear, it makes it very hard for the vets to know what to treat. Having said that,  she has had two good days yesterday and today.  Eating, drinking, purring, , no nausea, and just generally interested in life.  The three things that were different about those two days are  (a) it was slightly warmer - beginning of Spring in Australia - so I wasn't running the heater that makes that weird plastic smell (b) I gave her two x 20mg lasix doses, rather than 4 x 10mg doses, and  (c) she refused point-blank both days to take her Fortekor (benazapril). No idea which of these caused the improvement.  Her GP has put an email into the cardio vet because he needs advice about introducing Spiro, it's not commonly given to cats in Australia, it's more a doggie-drug. But it's been nice to have two full consecutive days with sunshine and a happy cat :) Catie, Kitty, Tuppenny Topsy-Angel, Buttons-Angel, Patch-Angel, Claude-Angel --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, <rschu92@...> wrote: From what I've been told by our cardiologist, the kidney can develop a sort of tolerance to lasix.  Though sprio is not as strong a diuretic, it is potassium sparing from what I've heard, and our cardiologist says it works in a different part of the kidney tubules.

                Has anyone also heard this?

                -Lee and May
                ==========
                Hi Catie

                I think you are onto something with the potassium. Spiro is not as bad for
                potassium so hopefully you will get a balance. Vetmedin is called
                pimobendan if that helps.

                -Lyn

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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