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Respirating again same night after being tapped

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  • Maggie Wilson
    Hello- I wrote yesterday about my vet issues and Miles respirating all wknd. Finally that vet said to bring him back and she wouldn t charge but for the tap
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 5, 2013
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      Hello-

      I wrote yesterday about my vet issues and Miles respirating all wknd. Finally that vet said to bring him back and she wouldn't charge but for the tap they should have done on Friday. Miles was tapped at 1:30pm this afternoon- 180ml. I was told to wait until tonight to give his regular lasix dose which I did. I noticed, when checking on him this evening he seemed off and when I went back to give his lasix dose at 8:00pm, he was respirating and is still respirating after 1.5 hrs.

      What is going? It's the only thing he's on-lasix. If anyone can help me w/ anything, I'm grateful. This is scaring me. The cardiologist recommended Pimo, however, I've never been able to speak to the cardiologist herself and know nothing about the whys b/c this new vet- and actually another vet from that office came on the scene said Pimo is very risky and could cause death. I don't know how to help him.

      Thank you for any input.

      Brenda
    • elfinmyst
      Hi Brenda You should go with the cardiologist. Yes there is a risk with pimobendan and any other drug of course, but for my cats it helped a lot. Cardiologists
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 6, 2013
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        Hi Brenda

        You should go with the cardiologist. Yes there is a risk with pimobendan
        and any other drug of course, but for my cats it helped a lot. Cardiologists
        know a lot more about hearts than regular vets. If he needs tapping so
        often, he definitely needs something to aid his heart.

        Most of us give 30mg of CoQ from the health store. But once started, dont
        stop suddenly. I would try to insist on medication, either fortekor or
        pimobendan, perhaps both.

        Lyn

        _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • marianna.mayer
        I agree. That is too much fluid, building too quickly. The risk for a crisis is apparent. Tapping can t keep up with that. Go with the cardio. s instructions,
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 6, 2013
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          I agree. That is too much fluid, building too quickly. The risk for a crisis is apparent. Tapping can't keep up with that. Go with the cardio.'s instructions, I lost my cat to this very issue. He was never offered fortekor or pimobendan. He might not have died a horrible death, if he had.
          I am also a big believer in CoQ10, 30mg per day or 60mg split as 2 doses per day and always with food.

          Marianna


          -----Original Message-----
          From: elfinmyst <elfinmyst@...>
          To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tue, Aug 6, 2013 1:47 pm
          Subject: [FH] Re: Respirating again same night after being tapped






          Hi Brenda

          You should go with the cardiologist. Yes there is a risk with pimobendan
          and any other drug of course, but for my cats it helped a lot. Cardiologists
          know a lot more about hearts than regular vets. If he needs tapping so
          often, he definitely needs something to aid his heart.

          Most of us give 30mg of CoQ from the health store. But once started, dont
          stop suddenly. I would try to insist on medication, either fortekor or
          pimobendan, perhaps both.

          Lyn

          _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Maggie Wilson
          Hi Lyn- Thank you. I asked again about the fortekor and was told it doesn t make a huge difference w/ the heart and actually hurts the kidneys restricting
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 6, 2013
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            Hi Lyn-

            Thank you. I asked again about the fortekor and was told it doesn't make a huge difference w/ the heart and actually hurts the kidneys restricting blood flow, so was sited by the cardiologist at Uof Wisconsin that if kidneys worsen, then fortekor/benazepril is the first thing she takes away and apparently that's what these 2 vets at this 'state of the art' ER clinic do. This new vet I have is a certified cardiologist trained under Dr. Ware at Iowa State. Dr. Ware was the cardiologist who did Miles initial testing and whom I wasn't allowed to speak w/ personally. This cardiologist is 100 miles away and only makes rounds every 2 wks so an appt there means going to many different vets who constantly mess up his history and don't care one way or the other let alone let the 4 yr med students run the show as I never get to speak to a 'real dvm' either except for a quick meet/greet. They get briefed by the med student and all subsequent questions go through the med students not knowing if they actually reach the dvm b/c I've never once heard back from a dvm.

            It's by far, the most inefficient place. Every appt there is on average 5-6 hrs b/c they take the pet and let all the students be a part of the action. It's not a conducive place for real pets.

            If I don't have the backing of these new vets regarding more meds, then I'm not sure what to do. Every vet in this state went to school at ISU so they all drink from the same cup.

            I am glad to know your cats did well w/ Pimo. What are the risks that you know of?

            I am giving CoQ10-ubiquinol-about 30mg started 1.5 wks ago and also giving taurine. Miles' is very very GI sensitive so I have to be very careful. Once I feel the spironlactone is ok for him (2 doses so far) I want to go back to the lumbrokinase I was giving. It seemed to give him energy but he had a week's vomiting episode w/ the oral lasix a few wks ago and thus also was vomiting the lumbrokinase so I don't know what to do as I barely am keeping food in him.

            Does the CoQ10 take time to build in the system?

            We have another appt this thursday and I'll see where his bloodwork is and technically I can give the benazepril again by myself. I would like to hear the other side of the benazepril story my vets are telling me.

            Thank you so much for responding. I feel very alone.

            Brenda

            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@... wrote:
            >
            > Hi Brenda
            >
            > You should go with the cardiologist. Yes there is a risk with pimobendan
            > and any other drug of course, but for my cats it helped a lot. Cardiologists
            > know a lot more about hearts than regular vets. If he needs tapping so
            > often, he definitely needs something to aid his heart.
            >
            > Most of us give 30mg of CoQ from the health store. But once started, dont
            > stop suddenly. I would try to insist on medication, either fortekor or
            > pimobendan, perhaps both.
            >
            > Lyn
            >
            > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Maggie Wilson
            Thank you, also, Marianna. I gave answers in Lyn s post. I am sorry to hear about your cat. It is very difficult to hear about all these different
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 6, 2013
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              Thank you, also, Marianna. I gave answers in Lyn's post. I am sorry to hear about your cat. It is very difficult to hear about all these different treatments on the forums and my hundred vets know nothing.

              I even asked yesterday if there was something to help the heart itself and he looked at me quizzically and said- 'the lasix'. I said - no the heart muscle! like pimo- and that's when he said it's too risky and there aren't enough studies to support it. I think they think Miles isn't as bad off as he is. This vet who didn't do the tap last Friday and debated me all wknd isn't responding well to this episode.

              Do you know what is considered a 'high' dose of lasix?

              What are your experiences w/ CoQ10 (we're using the ubiquinol)? Could you see a benefit right away?

              Again, I am sorry to know about your kitty and will heed you advice. Right now I've been able to give everything I've given together-after a meal-

              Thank you, Marianna.

              brenda

              --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, mmayer11@... wrote:
              >
              >
              > I agree. That is too much fluid, building too quickly. The risk for a crisis is apparent. Tapping can't keep up with that. Go with the cardio.'s instructions, I lost my cat to this very issue. He was never offered fortekor or pimobendan. He might not have died a horrible death, if he had.
              > I am also a big believer in CoQ10, 30mg per day or 60mg split as 2 doses per day and always with food.
              >
              > Marianna
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: elfinmyst <elfinmyst@...>
              > To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Tue, Aug 6, 2013 1:47 pm
              > Subject: [FH] Re: Respirating again same night after being tapped
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi Brenda
              >
              > You should go with the cardiologist. Yes there is a risk with pimobendan
              > and any other drug of course, but for my cats it helped a lot. Cardiologists
              > know a lot more about hearts than regular vets. If he needs tapping so
              > often, he definitely needs something to aid his heart.
              >
              > Most of us give 30mg of CoQ from the health store. But once started, dont
              > stop suddenly. I would try to insist on medication, either fortekor or
              > pimobendan, perhaps both.
              >
              > Lyn
              >
              > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • elfinmyst
              Hi Brenda In the UK fortekor is given for late kidney failure. All my heart cats have been on it for over 5 years now with no ill effects at all, including
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 6, 2013
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                Hi Brenda

                In the UK fortekor is given for late kidney failure. All my heart cats have
                been on it for over 5 years now with no ill effects at all, including Josh
                who has kidney failure and HCM.

                Pimodendan is contraindicated for HCM in dogs, but I have used it
                successfully with two cats (one HCM, one hole in heart) for a long time. There are
                other people here who will tell you their stories of it I`m sure.

                Make sure the lumbrokinase doesn't have any vitamin k in it. Lumbro is an
                enzyme similar to nattokinase which I use in my cats.

                Lyn

                _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Maggie Wilson
                PS- what about hydrochlorothiazide? Hctz- Do you know of or have experience w/ it? I ve seen it mentioned in the forums.
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 6, 2013
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                  PS- what about hydrochlorothiazide? Hctz- Do you know of or have experience w/ it? I've seen it mentioned in the forums.



                  --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, mmayer11@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > I agree. That is too much fluid, building too quickly. The risk for a crisis is apparent. Tapping can't keep up with that. Go with the cardio.'s instructions, I lost my cat to this very issue. He was never offered fortekor or pimobendan. He might not have died a horrible death, if he had.
                  > I am also a big believer in CoQ10, 30mg per day or 60mg split as 2 doses per day and always with food.
                  >
                  > Marianna
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: elfinmyst <elfinmyst@...>
                  > To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Tue, Aug 6, 2013 1:47 pm
                  > Subject: [FH] Re: Respirating again same night after being tapped
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Brenda
                  >
                  > You should go with the cardiologist. Yes there is a risk with pimobendan
                  > and any other drug of course, but for my cats it helped a lot. Cardiologists
                  > know a lot more about hearts than regular vets. If he needs tapping so
                  > often, he definitely needs something to aid his heart.
                  >
                  > Most of us give 30mg of CoQ from the health store. But once started, dont
                  > stop suddenly. I would try to insist on medication, either fortekor or
                  > pimobendan, perhaps both.
                  >
                  > Lyn
                  >
                  > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Maggie Wilson
                  Hi Lyn- No vitK in Lumbrokinase. I think only nattokinase may or may not have vitK but I ll relook it up. Thank you for bringing it up. Do you think the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Aug 6, 2013
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                    Hi Lyn-

                    No vitK in Lumbrokinase. I think only nattokinase may or may not have vitK but I'll relook it up. Thank you for bringing it up.

                    Do you think the benazepril/Fortekor has helped the heart in your cats? Europe has been using it for years but of course the US has to do their own grand studies. I wonder why there is the opposite mindset of these vets..........

                    Regarding the Pimo- did you see an immediate difference w/ your cats? How far down the road were your cats before you started it ifthey are still w/ you yrs later? No stomach issues? Why do they say it can cause death?

                    Thank you for your stories and taking the time post (and repost).

                    Brenda

                    --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Brenda
                    >
                    > In the UK fortekor is given for late kidney failure. All my heart cats have
                    > been on it for over 5 years now with no ill effects at all, including Josh
                    > who has kidney failure and HCM.
                    >
                    > Pimodendan is contraindicated for HCM in dogs, but I have used it
                    > successfully with two cats (one HCM, one hole in heart) for a long time. There are
                    > other people here who will tell you their stories of it I`m sure.
                    >
                    > Make sure the lumbrokinase doesn't have any vitamin k in it. Lumbro is an
                    > enzyme similar to nattokinase which I use in my cats.
                    >
                    > Lyn
                    >
                    > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • elfinmyst
                    Hi All my heart cats have fortekor and they re all doing very well at the moment, coping and keeping the disease under control. Some also have vetmedin,
                    Message 9 of 9 , Aug 6, 2013
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                      Hi

                      All my heart cats have fortekor and they're all doing very well at the
                      moment, coping and keeping the disease under control. Some also have vetmedin,
                      atenolol, diuretics, plavix. It hasn't harmed the kidneys in any cat I
                      have.

                      I dont know if the difference was immediate. Milli and Trixi take
                      pimodendan and both were in heart failure when they started. Trixi was given no
                      chance to live at all, but here she is four years later. We tried the drug as
                      there was nothing else to do, was a last resort. Milli was also in heart
                      failure when she started it. It works for my cats.

                      Not sure what the danger is, someone posted about it. But if you search
                      you'll find a lot of good stories about it here.

                      Lyn
                      _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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