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Re: [FH] Respirating questions

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  • Maggie Wilson
    Hi Marianna- Thank you responding. I live in an inadequate area. It s a very very long story of arrogance, ignorance, inexperience. To answer your question
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 4, 2013
      Hi Marianna-

      Thank you responding. I live in an inadequate area. It's a very very long story of arrogance, ignorance, inexperience. To answer your question - the previous vets were much worse -if that says anything about the vet care w/n 100 miles at least. I'm trying to leave asap but have a house in my name to prepare for sale. If I could tell you everything that's happened in just this past month alone between 4 vets your jaw would drop.

      Right now, I'm just trying to learn as much as I can so thank you and gathering my resources in Los Angeles. Every vet in this area should be cited and I don't say it lightly. I've learned so much-they don't like me b/c I've figured them out-which doesn't help us.

      Thank you again -

      Brenda
      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, mmayer11@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > Dear Brenda,
      > I don't know exactly why your posts have not been seen by the group until now unless you have just hit reply when you have written. If so, then your post would/could go to 'only' the poster whose post you were reading, and not the entire group. Make sure your ''To" line is addressed to feline-heart@...
      > I can't answer all your questions. But I can say that, there is no definitive way for a vet to be certain how much fluid is around or in the lungs by a simple xray.
      > I do have a question for you...why are you going to this present vet when she appears to be so inadequate? How about going back to one of the others? At least they were address the fluid problem.
      >
      > Marianna
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hello -
      >
      > For some reason when I try to reply in this forum the replies do not post so I wanted anyone who has been kind enough to take the time to post, I've read every response-trying to respond in return.
      >
      > I'm trying again, as I have questions regarding Miles. He's basically been respirating for a week/hald straight and this new vet (another new vet) sent us home twice w/o tapping saying she didn't think it warranted it even though the prior two vets (long story) would tap anywhere from 150-180 ml. I know based on respirations what the tapped results usually are but this vet sends us home to chase fluid even when I explain.
      >
      > This past Friday, after a week of chasing fluid from the prior vet visit (weekly visits lately), we went in again, and again, she sent us home saying it didn't warrant a tap b/c she thinks there is only 50 ml and not enough to tap, yet his respirating is the same as our previous vet visits (other vet) where he was tapped. So, here we've been chasing fluid all wknd increasing the lasix which is making his kidneys and appetite worse. Where Friday he was eating/drinking/pooping, now it's a fight to drink tuna water.
      >
      > I've been emailing her all wknd trying to be 'kind' as I haven't any other vet (very long unbelievable story in the middle of nowhere boondocks old-school goodolboys country).
      >
      > I am beside myself right now. I've been busting it to get my house listed by next week so I can move away.
      >
      > I have some questions if any of you experienced people can help so I an educate myself....
      >
      > 1. What are the effects of spironolactone? How fast does it work- how long in the system? What to expect while taking it along w/ lasix
      >
      > 2. If a cat is already respirating, can adding the spiro make things balance-
      >
      > 3. Why do vets add the spiro later-after lasix? Is it b/c the lasix doses need to be increased to by adding the spiro is still adds more diuretic while saving the kidneys a bit?
      >
      > 4. Is it really possible to look at radiographs and determine how much fluid is around the heart (pleural effusion)?
      >
      > 5. This vet also took away the benazepril after Miles' kidney values rose. Is this an accurate decision.
      >
      > I'm moving back to Los Angeles and need a good, sophisticated, open-minded, confident vet if anyone can pass a name along anywhere in the SoCal.
      >
      > Thank you, all for your help, guidance and support. I hope I'm able to respond to any posts.
      >
      > Brenda
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • elfinmyst
      Hi Brenda, I can answer some of your questions or at least try to based on my own experience. 1. Spiro is not as effective as lasix, It is used as an addition,
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 5, 2013
        Hi Brenda,

        I can answer some of your questions or at least try to based on my own
        experience.

        1. Spiro is not as effective as lasix, It is used as an addition, but not
        first choice. It helps remove fluid around the lungs as well. It's kinder on
        the kidneys. I`ve used it in combination. What dose of lasix is Miles on?

        2. Spiro has helped with my cats, it never did any harm.

        3. In combination, it can be quite effective. It pulled the fluid from my
        girl's lungs quite well.

        4. Yes, fluid can be seen on an Xray to some degree and give an idea of the
        heart failure.

        5. Benazepril is used in the UK to help with later stage kidney failure. My
        HCM cats with kidney issues have been taking it for years. I think it's
        important Miles gets something for his heart failure. The idea is diuretics
        remove the fluid whilst the drugs help the heart, then the diuretic can
        sometimes be reduced. There are beta blockers, Benazepril, vetmedin available
        to help the heart.

        6. My cat was on 5mg lasix every 4 hours at her worst which would be 30mg a
        day. In an emergency they use IV lasix which helped a lot. If Miles keeps
        needing taps, he likely needs drugs to help his failing heart. I`m sorry
        your vet is not listening, perhaps you can get a telephone consultation with
        a cardiologist? Has Miles got one and was he diagnosed by ultrasound? If
        not, I would advise one but obviously there may not be one in the area. Some
        in the States will do telephone consults if sent scans and xrays from your
        vet.

        Lyn
        _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Maggie Wilson
        thank you, Lyn for taking the time to share. What I need to know is - when I give a dose of spiro, how long does it take to work. My vet said it takes days to
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 5, 2013
          thank you, Lyn for taking the time to share.

          What I need to know is - when I give a dose of spiro, how long does it take to work. My vet said it takes days to build up.

          Are you saying in using the spiro w/ your cat, it pulled the fluid from the lungs that the lasix was *not* doing? When did you see the results? Immediate or days?

          From what I understand about benazepril used for CKD is to prevent protein loss b/c it actually restricts blood flow which the kidneys actually need (which is why this vet took him off due to his rising kidney values). They give it for congestive heart failure to open the vessels to allow for more blood flow- but for dogs (off-label for cats w/ chf Even the vet prior reduced his benazepril when his kidney values rose (then this vet took him off). Is this old-school thinking?

          Regarding pimobendan- they don't give it unless it's the very last thing to give- 'a hail mary' they said.

          My question regarding fluid on xrays was- can it be measured/estimated the level by sight. This vet said she could determine Miles had 50 ml based on what she saw on the xray and I didn't think it was possible to know based on an xray.

          the last vet I had-university vet- wrote me an extensive email how I need to not be on the internet b/c they (university vets) are privy to all the studies where laypeople are not and clearly as a layperson I wouldn't understand the studies but was 'gracious' enough to fwd me a private study regarding pimobendan- YES, one of the studies circulating on the internet w/ a first google search, that I had read a month prior (and understood thank you). I didn't even respond and became very aware of the major disconnect.

          this last vet was the mediary between me and Miles' cardiologist. We spent $4000 for a cardiologist who refuses to speak to 'laypeople'.

          I went to this current vet b/c of an emergency we had on 4th of July b/c this last vet (the university vet) reduced his lasix dose and 2 days later Miles built 250 ml fluid. I had called a local vet (the university vet is 100 miles away) who were going to but didn't like as this local vet r/x 100ml fluid which sent Miles into CHF 3 days later even though I reduced the dose. This local vet only gives acepromezine for anit-nausea, shushes me every chance he can get, doesn't believe in the internet 'only textbooks provide info', etc. Anyway, out of desperation, I called the local vet of whom we had a relationship to help us July 3rd b/c I thought Miles was building fluid and he said I just need to do what the god university vet said. By the next night it was obvious the the fluid built and the local vet refused to return our ER call after 5 hr so I had to drive to another ER place (hence this new vet) 75 miles away where they have up-to-date equipment.

          There's way more, just don't have time right now.

          I'm in hell trying to help him-pure hell. I thought I could ride this woman out until we left, now I have absolutely no idea what to do. I obviously can't trust her either.

          Thank you very much for any help.

          Brenda



          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@... wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi Brenda,
          >
          > I can answer some of your questions or at least try to based on my own
          > experience.
          >
          > 1. Spiro is not as effective as lasix, It is used as an addition, but not
          > first choice. It helps remove fluid around the lungs as well. It's kinder on
          > the kidneys. I`ve used it in combination. What dose of lasix is Miles on?
          >
          > 2. Spiro has helped with my cats, it never did any harm.
          >
          > 3. In combination, it can be quite effective. It pulled the fluid from my
          > girl's lungs quite well.
          >
          > 4. Yes, fluid can be seen on an Xray to some degree and give an idea of the
          > heart failure.
          >
          > 5. Benazepril is used in the UK to help with later stage kidney failure. My
          > HCM cats with kidney issues have been taking it for years. I think it's
          > important Miles gets something for his heart failure. The idea is diuretics
          > remove the fluid whilst the drugs help the heart, then the diuretic can
          > sometimes be reduced. There are beta blockers, Benazepril, vetmedin available
          > to help the heart.
          >
          > 6. My cat was on 5mg lasix every 4 hours at her worst which would be 30mg a
          > day. In an emergency they use IV lasix which helped a lot. If Miles keeps
          > needing taps, he likely needs drugs to help his failing heart. I`m sorry
          > your vet is not listening, perhaps you can get a telephone consultation with
          > a cardiologist? Has Miles got one and was he diagnosed by ultrasound? If
          > not, I would advise one but obviously there may not be one in the area. Some
          > in the States will do telephone consults if sent scans and xrays from your
          > vet.
          >
          > Lyn
          > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
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