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RE: [FH] Heart Medication

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  • Mike & Linda Irrgang
    you will both be in my thoughts and prayers... linda and the boys ... From: elevine41 [mailto:EveV@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 11:44 PM To:
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 28, 2002
      you will both be in my thoughts and prayers...

      linda and the boys

      -----Original Message-----
      From: elevine41 [mailto:EveV@...]
      Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 11:44 PM
      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [FH] Heart Medication


      --- In feline-heart@y..., Anyes Moscrip <anyes@i...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > elevine41 wrote:
      >
      > > Hi All,
      > >
      > > I just got the devastating news that Blue's HCM is now evolved
      into
      > > heart failure. The benazapril didn't help as he had hoped, & he
      said
      > > that there was one more pill that could help him a bit, & that's
      what
      > > we started this morning. It's Dilacor.
      >
      > From what I have seen so far, benazapril is not used very much for
      hcm
      > kitties. I don't know what the reason is but I have to wonder why
      your vet
      > chose it. Most hcm kitties get Norvasc or Diltiazem; both are
      calcium
      > channel blockers. Mine was on Diltiazem and responded really well
      even with
      > advanced crf and moderate hcm. It was a tough combo to work with
      and we did
      > not have much hope, but the heart medication really helped her.
      >
      > I don't know what Dilacor is. Do you know what class of drug it
      belongs to?
      >
      > Anyes and the girls

      Anyes,

      Dilacor is a calcium channel blocker.. Blue also has diabetes & CRF &
      now heart failure. He was taking cyproheptadine to stimulate his
      appetite, but I understand that it can cause a possibly fatal
      reaction causing the BP to drop too low, so I have been afraid to
      give it to him...so far, I'm getting him to eat some without it.
      Also, would you know anything about supplementing with CO-Q10? I got
      some to give him, but I am unsure whether to just give him the
      capsule or do you open it & put it in something?

      Eve & Blue



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    • vandalin1
      Eve, Are you assist-feeding Blue with a syringe? Sometimes it is necessary, when a kitty won t eat, to thin their food with a little water to a consistency
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 30, 2002
        Eve,

        Are you assist-feeding Blue with a syringe? Sometimes it is necessary, when a kitty won't eat, to thin their food with a little water to a consistency that you can feed with a syringe. Ask you vet for a can of Hill's A/D. They should also have a syringe that you can use. Blue may not care for being fed this way, but he must get some food into him. By the way, I do give my cat, Munchie, 1/4 pill of cypro every day without a problem.

        Anne V
        Warner Robins, GA
        From: elevine41
        Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 2:22 PM
        I am getting desperate. If I can't give Blue the
        cyproheptadine...I've got to do something, as he won't eat.
        Where can I get that Cannabis Homeopathic that you mentioned? He's
        only eaten maybe two teaspoons of salmon since yesterday, & I'm
        getting frantic...

        Eve & Blue


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      • elevine41
        ... don t know ... better ... you give ... it can ... so I have ... 2 weeks ... begin with. ... seem to ... had also ... because it ... at a future ... cats,
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 30, 2002
          --- In feline-heart@y..., Anyes Moscrip <anyes@i...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > elevine41 wrote:
          >
          > > Anyes,
          > >
          > > Dilacor is a calcium channel blocker..
          >
          > That's the same type of drug as Norvasc and Diltiazem, although I
          don't know
          > the specifics and differences between the 3.
          > I would try it and see if it helps Blue. I think you may get a
          better
          > response than from the Benazapril, and there is no way to know till
          you give
          > it a try.
          >
          > > Blue also has diabetes & CRF & now heart failure. He was taking
          > > cyproheptadine to stimulate his appetite, but I understand that
          it can
          > > cause a possibly fatal reaction causing the BP to drop too low,
          so I have
          > > been afraid to
          > > give it to him...so far, I'm getting him to eat some without it.
          >
          > Yes, in fact my cat had the reaction. She never recovered and died
          2 weeks
          > later. She had advanced crf and was in a weakened condition to
          begin with.
          > I know that cats are getting that combo on the crf list and don't
          seem to
          > have a problem, but they may be in better shape than Lucie. Lucie
          had also
          > had the combo several times with no problem prior to the crisis so
          because it
          > has never happened before is not a guarantee that it won't happen
          at a future
          > time. Personally, I will never risk that combo again on any of my
          cats,
          > ever. I could not stand to watch them waiting to see if this will
          be the
          > time they react. There are alternates for appetite stimulation.
          Our vet
          > gave us Cannabis homeopathic (not the herb!) and it worked great.
          Lucie was
          > hungry whenever she got it as well as vit B injections every 2
          weeks. vit B
          > is an appetite stimulant also.
          >
          > >
          > > Also, would you know anything about supplementing with CO-Q10? I
          got some
          > > to give him, but I am unsure whether to just give him the capsule
          or do you
          > > open it & put it in something?
          >
          > I have no experience with it. From what I have read here, the oil
          is better
          > than the powder. I would assume you can mix it in a little food to
          avoid a
          > pilling?
          >
          > Anyes and the girls

          Aynes,

          I am getting desperate. If I can't give Blue the
          cyproheptadine...I've got to do something, as he won't eat.
          Where can I get that Cannabis Homeopathic that you mentioned? He's
          only eaten maybe two teaspoons of salmon since yesterday, & I'm
          getting frantic...

          Eve & Blue
        • Susan
          ... Eve, It is important to never let a cat go more than 24 hrs without eating (unlike dogs) They can get hepatic lipidosis which means they start depositing
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 30, 2002
            >
            > I am getting desperate. If I can't give Blue the
            > cyproheptadine...I've got to do something, as he
            > won't eat.
            > Where can I get that Cannabis Homeopathic that you
            > mentioned? He's
            > only eaten maybe two teaspoons of salmon since
            > yesterday, & I'm
            > getting frantic...
            >
            > Eve & Blue

            Eve,

            It is important to never let a cat go more than 24 hrs
            without eating (unlike dogs) They can get hepatic
            lipidosis which means they start depositing fatty
            cells into their liver as their body breaks down
            muscle mass. Get some AD ASAP, sit on the floor next
            to him and put finger fulls of AD in the corner of his
            mouth. They seem to object less to the finger than the
            syringe. Do this as many times per day as you have
            time, trying to get at least a half a can into him per
            day. When cats won't eat it is rarely an issue of
            finding that one thing that might tempt him. If you
            notice him doing lip smacking motions with his mouth
            that is considered to be a sign of nausea and could be
            part of the reason why he will not eat. Is he by any
            chance obese? Hepatic Lipidosis is most often seen in
            cats who are fat, but it also manifests itself after a
            stressful incident either medical or psychological.
            The cure for HL is highly nutritous food, starting out
            slow and working your way up to at least a whole can
            per day.

            Susan
            >
            >
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          • Diana Gregory
            ... Another way, since a syringe is scary to the cat sometimes - Use the blender to mix food to a paste about the consistency of baby food all meat. Use
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 30, 2002
              vandalin1 wrote:
              >
              > Eve,
              >
              > Are you assist-feeding Blue with a syringe? Sometimes it is necessary, when a kitty won't eat, to
              > thin their food with a little water to a consistency that you can feed with a syringe.

              Another way, since a syringe is scary to the cat sometimes -

              Use the blender to mix food to a paste about the consistency of baby food
              all meat. Use distilled water, so as not to add anything unexpected. Baby
              food is a good thing sometimes to kick-start an appetite.

              Once you have a paste, use your finger. Sometimes just having the food on
              the finger will get the cat to lick your finger off - but sometimes you have
              to open the mouth and wipe your finger on the cat's tongue. Slower, more
              tedious - but sometimes more accepted by the cat.

              Diana
            • vandalin1
              Don t forget to let us know how Blue does. Anne V Warner Robins, GA From: elevine41 Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 10:11 PM First of all, may I say a big
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 30, 2002
                Don't forget to let us know how Blue does.

                Anne V
                Warner Robins, GA
                From: elevine41
                Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 10:11 PM


                First of all, may I say a "big" thank you to all who have responded
                to my cry for help. I am fortified with Nutrical, AD food, baby food,
                & slippery elm bark capsules. I will get some food in him
                tonight...also purchased some liver today...although, I will be
                greatly amazed if he touches it! If all this fails, I will try to
                call a homeopathic vet & get a prescription for the Cannabis.

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              • Anyes Moscrip
                elevine41 wrote: Aynes, ... I got it from my holistic vet. I enquired at the health food store, but they said they could not order it for me. I have to point
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 30, 2002
                  elevine41 wrote:
                  Aynes,

                  > I am getting desperate. If I can't give Blue the
                  > cyproheptadine...I've got to do something, as he won't eat.
                  > Where can I get that Cannabis Homeopathic that you mentioned? He's
                  > only eaten maybe two teaspoons of salmon since yesterday, & I'm
                  > getting frantic...
                  >
                  > Eve & Blue

                  I got it from my holistic vet. I enquired at the health food store, but they
                  said they could not order it for me.
                  I have to point out that the homeopathic remedy has no active ingredient left
                  from the herb. However, I think only vets are allowed to dispense it.

                  Have you tried Nux Vomica also? It is for nausea but it also helps with
                  appetite. You can get it at the health food store.
                  If you use the pellets, do not touch them with your fingers. You can mix
                  them with a little milk and give the milk with a syringe. I dropped the
                  pellets directly in the syringe then added water to that.

                  The Cannabis was a liquid formula.

                  I hope that helps,
                  Anyes and the girls
                • Anyes Moscrip
                  ... That is a very good point. I could not get my cat to eat with a syringe either. However, she would eat baby food. Chicken and turkey in gravy seemed to
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 30, 2002
                    Diana Gregory wrote:

                    > Another way, since a syringe is scary to the cat sometimes -

                    > Baby food is a good thing sometimes to kick-start an appetite.

                    That is a very good point. I could not get my cat to eat with a syringe either.
                    However, she would eat baby food. Chicken and turkey in gravy seemed to be favorite flavors. I mixed
                    1/2 gelcap of slippery elm in it (for acid tummy and constipation) and it made the baby food sticky and
                    very easy to assist feed. I put a glob of food in mouth, using upper teeth as a scraper. THis mix is
                    sticky and very hard to spit out, so it got swallowed.
                    Slippery elm is also a food and used to treat emaciation and anorexia.

                    Nutrical is also a good temporary food as it too can be given in globs and is very high energy food.

                    I hope this helps,
                    Anyes and the girls
                  • elevine41
                    ... syringe either. ... seemed to be favorite flavors. I mixed ... and it made the baby food sticky and ... upper teeth as a scraper. THis mix is ...
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 30, 2002
                      --- In feline-heart@y..., Anyes Moscrip <anyes@i...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Diana Gregory wrote:
                      >
                      > > Another way, since a syringe is scary to the cat sometimes -
                      >
                      > > Baby food is a good thing sometimes to kick-start an appetite.
                      >
                      > That is a very good point. I could not get my cat to eat with a
                      syringe either.
                      > However, she would eat baby food. Chicken and turkey in gravy
                      seemed to be favorite flavors. I mixed
                      > 1/2 gelcap of slippery elm in it (for acid tummy and constipation)
                      and it made the baby food sticky and
                      > very easy to assist feed. I put a glob of food in mouth, using
                      upper teeth as a scraper. THis mix is
                      > sticky and very hard to spit out, so it got swallowed.
                      > Slippery elm is also a food and used to treat emaciation and
                      anorexia.
                      >
                      > Nutrical is also a good temporary food as it too can be given in
                      globs and is very high energy food.
                      >
                      > I hope this helps,
                      > Anyes and the girls

                      First of all, may I say a "big" thank you to all who have responded
                      to my cry for help. I am fortified with Nutrical, AD food, baby food,
                      & slippery elm bark capsules. I will get some food in him
                      tonight...also purchased some liver today...although, I will be
                      greatly amazed if he touches it! If all this fails, I will try to
                      call a homeopathic vet & get a prescription for the Cannabis.
                      Just like my "Diabetes" group, this group is a Godsend...

                      Eve & Blue Boy
                    • Susan
                      ... Just don t rely too much on the baby food it is too low in protein. A vet told me that even baby foods with meat labels are primarily plant based and cats
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 30, 2002
                        > First of all, may I say a "big" thank you to all who
                        > have responded
                        > to my cry for help. I am fortified with Nutrical, AD
                        > food, baby food,
                        > & slippery elm bark capsules.

                        Just don't rely too much on the baby food it is too
                        low in protein. A vet told me that even baby foods
                        with meat labels are primarily plant based and cats
                        being obligate carnivores need even more protein than
                        dogs.

                        Susan

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                      • Diana Gregory
                        ... Eh? As long as the baby food is one of the all meat varieties, while it *DOES* have water added - there should be no vegetable matter in it. In fact,
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 30, 2002
                          Susan wrote:
                          >
                          > > First of all, may I say a "big" thank you to all who
                          > > have responded
                          > > to my cry for help. I am fortified with Nutrical, AD
                          > > food, baby food,
                          > > & slippery elm bark capsules.
                          >
                          > Just don't rely too much on the baby food it is too
                          > low in protein. A vet told me that even baby foods
                          > with meat labels are primarily plant based and cats
                          > being obligate carnivores need even more protein than
                          > dogs.

                          Eh?

                          As long as the baby food is one of the 'all meat' varieties,
                          while it *DOES* have water added - there should be no vegetable
                          matter in it. In fact, that's why you should not use it for
                          a CRF cat - too *much* protein.

                          Do read the labels, Gerber was adding onion for a while (which
                          can be toxic to cats, especially ones who are already sick), and
                          still put corn-starch in their 'all meat' foods.

                          What they do *not* have is added taurine - the amino acid that is
                          cooked out of cooked meats. Cat foods have it added back in. You
                          won't find it in dog food or people food because it is not as
                          important for omnivores as it is for carnivores who would be getting
                          raw meat in 'natural' conditions.

                          Diana
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