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Reduced Frusemide... Breathing now Increased.

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  • binarina1
    After getting the bloods back, and seeing the impact 2x20mg was having on my cat it was decide that his dose should be halved. He s done well for five days,
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 12 9:11 AM
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      After getting the bloods back, and seeing the impact 2x20mg was having on my cat it was decide that his dose should be halved. He's done well for five days, his respiratory rate increase from 16 a minute to 20 but he seemed fine.

      This morning it was at 28, he was eating but didnt seem as interested. And I watched him run up the stairs and he struggled. So I gave him another 10 mg. it's back at 20 a minute now, but I think I'm going to give him 20mg tonight. The cardiologist is going to see him soon, we are waiting to hear back as to when. But should I give the half dose tomorrow or return to the 2x20mg? The vet has told me that I should give him extra as an when he needs it.
    • tourtaney
      That does seem like a pretty high dosage. Can I ask how much your cat weighs? My cat weighs 13.5 lbs and can safely have 14mg every 8 hours. She s currently
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 12 9:15 AM
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        That does seem like a pretty high dosage. Can I ask how much your cat weighs? My cat weighs 13.5 lbs and can safely have 14mg every 8 hours. She's currently getting 12.5mg 3x/day. Maybe it would be better to spread your pills out than give such high dosages twice/day??

        Courtney & Maggie

        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "binarina1" <binarina@...> wrote:
        >
        > After getting the bloods back, and seeing the impact 2x20mg was having on my cat it was decide that his dose should be halved. He's done well for five days, his respiratory rate increase from 16 a minute to 20 but he seemed fine.
        >
        > This morning it was at 28, he was eating but didnt seem as interested. And I watched him run up the stairs and he struggled. So I gave him another 10 mg. it's back at 20 a minute now, but I think I'm going to give him 20mg tonight. The cardiologist is going to see him soon, we are waiting to hear back as to when. But should I give the half dose tomorrow or return to the 2x20mg? The vet has told me that I should give him extra as an when he needs it.
        >
      • binarina1
        Hello. I replied but mistakenly sent it to email I think.
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 12 9:34 AM
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          Hello. I replied but mistakenly sent it to email I think.

          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "tourtaney" <tourtney17@...> wrote:
          >
          > That does seem like a pretty high dosage. Can I ask how much your cat weighs? My cat weighs 13.5 lbs and can safely have 14mg every 8 hours. She's currently getting 12.5mg 3x/day. Maybe it would be better to spread your pills out than give such high dosages twice/day??
          >
          > Courtney & Maggie
          >
          > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "binarina1" <binarina@> wrote:
          > >
          > > After getting the bloods back, and seeing the impact 2x20mg was having on my cat it was decide that his dose should be halved. He's done well for five days, his respiratory rate increase from 16 a minute to 20 but he seemed fine.
          > >
          > > This morning it was at 28, he was eating but didnt seem as interested. And I watched him run up the stairs and he struggled. So I gave him another 10 mg. it's back at 20 a minute now, but I think I'm going to give him 20mg tonight. The cardiologist is going to see him soon, we are waiting to hear back as to when. But should I give the half dose tomorrow or return to the 2x20mg? The vet has told me that I should give him extra as an when he needs it.
          > >
          >
        • tourtaney
          I can t claim to be an expert as I ve been dealing with this for only 3 1/2 months, but I would certainly pose the question to your vet. I don t want to give
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 12 9:36 AM
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            I can't claim to be an expert as I've been dealing with this for only 3 1/2 months, but I would certainly pose the question to your vet. I don't want to give you bad advice that doesn't help your kitty. But I'd certainly make the effort to ask your vet about it. If you're already giving the meds at 12pm and 12 am, then a 8am, 4pm and 12am schedule might work for you.

            Courtney & maggie
          • elfinmyst
            Hi If he needs 40mg a day to control the heart failure, then unfortunately that s what is needed. A high dose will affect kidney function but the heart has to
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 12 9:41 AM
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              Hi

              If he needs 40mg a day to control the heart failure, then unfortunately
              that's what is needed. A high dose will affect kidney function but the heart
              has to come first. Trixi was on30mg a day at her worst. Now he is stable on
              40mg, you need to find ways to be able to reduce it.

              There are two options. You could ask for spironolactone to add to the
              lasix, they work together and spiro isn't as damaging to the kidneys. It would
              possibly be 10mg lasix plus 6mg spiro twice a day. Or you can ask for
              something else to help the heart function better so the lasix can be reduced.
              That could be a beta blocker like atenolol, vetmedin or an ace inhibitor like
              fortekor. Improving the heart can mean less heart failure and lower lasix.

              But it is essential that the cardiologist decides which is best. For now
              you will need to keep that fluid down as the first priority.

              Lyn

              _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • binarina1
              Thanks Courtney. I ll speak to the vet again, I spoke to him yesterday. It would seem a good idea to spread it out more though I agree. Thanks for your help.
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 12 10:09 AM
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                Thanks Courtney.

                I'll speak to the vet again, I spoke to him yesterday. It would seem a good idea to spread it out more though I agree. Thanks for your help.

                Sara

                --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "tourtaney" <tourtney17@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > I can't claim to be an expert as I've been dealing with this for only 3 1/2 months, but I would certainly pose the question to your vet. I don't want to give you bad advice that doesn't help your kitty. But I'd certainly make the effort to ask your vet about it. If you're already giving the meds at 12pm and 12 am, then a 8am, 4pm and 12am schedule might work for you.
                >
                > Courtney & maggie
                >
              • binarina1
                Hello Lyn. He s on Frusemide, cardisure, fortekor, prilactone, clopidogrel and asprin. He s been doing really well on 40mg. But the bloods said otherwise. He s
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 12 10:15 AM
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                  Hello Lyn.

                  He's on Frusemide, cardisure, fortekor, prilactone, clopidogrel and asprin. He's been doing really well on 40mg. But the bloods said otherwise. He's got a pretty bad spasm around his shoulders which is probably because of low potassium. But that was expected to reduce once the frusemide was lowered, but it didnt. I'll have to see what the cardiologist says, but I'm unsure how soon she can see him. I think a mix of frusemide and prilactone might be the way forward. I'll see what she says. I'm going to give him 30mg today. And see how he is tomorrow.

                  Thanks for your help. Sara.


                  --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi
                  >
                  > If he needs 40mg a day to control the heart failure, then unfortunately
                  > that's what is needed. A high dose will affect kidney function but the heart
                  > has to come first. Trixi was on30mg a day at her worst. Now he is stable on
                  > 40mg, you need to find ways to be able to reduce it.
                  >
                  > There are two options. You could ask for spironolactone to add to the
                  > lasix, they work together and spiro isn't as damaging to the kidneys. It would
                  > possibly be 10mg lasix plus 6mg spiro twice a day. Or you can ask for
                  > something else to help the heart function better so the lasix can be reduced.
                  > That could be a beta blocker like atenolol, vetmedin or an ace inhibitor like
                  > fortekor. Improving the heart can mean less heart failure and lower lasix.
                  >
                  > But it is essential that the cardiologist decides which is best. For now
                  > you will need to keep that fluid down as the first priority.
                  >
                  > Lyn
                  >
                  > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • hoofbeats95
                  I m curious what the respiration weight of everyone s kitties are? My kitty girl is on 20 mg of lasix twice a day and her breathing is 24-28 bpm on any given
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 13 7:09 AM
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                    I'm curious what the respiration weight of everyone's kitties are? My kitty girl is on 20 mg of lasix twice a day and her breathing is 24-28 bpm on any given night. I don't panic until it's above 30. The last time it was above 30 she was full of fluids. So I'm curious as the original poster is upset with 28 bpm, but I'm chugging along at that range. Should I be expecting a lower rate?

                    --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "binarina1" <binarina@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Lyn.
                    >
                    > He's on Frusemide, cardisure, fortekor, prilactone, clopidogrel and asprin. He's been doing really well on 40mg. But the bloods said otherwise. He's got a pretty bad spasm around his shoulders which is probably because of low potassium. But that was expected to reduce once the frusemide was lowered, but it didnt. I'll have to see what the cardiologist says, but I'm unsure how soon she can see him. I think a mix of frusemide and prilactone might be the way forward. I'll see what she says. I'm going to give him 30mg today. And see how he is tomorrow.
                    >
                    > Thanks for your help. Sara.
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi
                    > >
                    > > If he needs 40mg a day to control the heart failure, then unfortunately
                    > > that's what is needed. A high dose will affect kidney function but the heart
                    > > has to come first. Trixi was on30mg a day at her worst. Now he is stable on
                    > > 40mg, you need to find ways to be able to reduce it.
                    > >
                    > > There are two options. You could ask for spironolactone to add to the
                    > > lasix, they work together and spiro isn't as damaging to the kidneys. It would
                    > > possibly be 10mg lasix plus 6mg spiro twice a day. Or you can ask for
                    > > something else to help the heart function better so the lasix can be reduced.
                    > > That could be a beta blocker like atenolol, vetmedin or an ace inhibitor like
                    > > fortekor. Improving the heart can mean less heart failure and lower lasix.
                    > >
                    > > But it is essential that the cardiologist decides which is best. For now
                    > > you will need to keep that fluid down as the first priority.
                    > >
                    > > Lyn
                    > >
                    > > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                  • elfinmyst
                    Hi It s not really the starting rate which is thr problem, it s a change you are looking for. Something different to normal. My Topsy breathes at 35-40 all of
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 13 7:49 AM
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                      Hi

                      It's not really the starting rate which is thr problem, it's a change you
                      are looking for. Something different to normal. My Topsy breathes at 35-40
                      all of the time and has since she was a kitten, even under sedation. All her
                      siblings are low 20. So the main thing is to look for a change, an
                      increase, double breaths, chest heaving, tummy pulled in. Hope that helps reassure
                      you.

                      Lyn

                      _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • binarina1
                      It s the change, he went from 16 to 28 which is quite a jump. To update: He s been rushed to the emergency vet and will be spending the night there. He s very
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 13 12:42 PM
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                        It's the change, he went from 16 to 28 which is quite a jump.

                        To update: He's been rushed to the emergency vet and will be spending the night there. He's very ill again. :(

                        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "hoofbeats95" <hoofbeats95@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I'm curious what the respiration weight of everyone's kitties are? My kitty girl is on 20 mg of lasix twice a day and her breathing is 24-28 bpm on any given night. I don't panic until it's above 30. The last time it was above 30 she was full of fluids. So I'm curious as the original poster is upset with 28 bpm, but I'm chugging along at that range. Should I be expecting a lower rate?
                        >
                        > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "binarina1" <binarina@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello Lyn.
                        > >
                        > > He's on Frusemide, cardisure, fortekor, prilactone, clopidogrel and asprin. He's been doing really well on 40mg. But the bloods said otherwise. He's got a pretty bad spasm around his shoulders which is probably because of low potassium. But that was expected to reduce once the frusemide was lowered, but it didnt. I'll have to see what the cardiologist says, but I'm unsure how soon she can see him. I think a mix of frusemide and prilactone might be the way forward. I'll see what she says. I'm going to give him 30mg today. And see how he is tomorrow.
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for your help. Sara.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@ wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hi
                        > > >
                        > > > If he needs 40mg a day to control the heart failure, then unfortunately
                        > > > that's what is needed. A high dose will affect kidney function but the heart
                        > > > has to come first. Trixi was on30mg a day at her worst. Now he is stable on
                        > > > 40mg, you need to find ways to be able to reduce it.
                        > > >
                        > > > There are two options. You could ask for spironolactone to add to the
                        > > > lasix, they work together and spiro isn't as damaging to the kidneys. It would
                        > > > possibly be 10mg lasix plus 6mg spiro twice a day. Or you can ask for
                        > > > something else to help the heart function better so the lasix can be reduced.
                        > > > That could be a beta blocker like atenolol, vetmedin or an ace inhibitor like
                        > > > fortekor. Improving the heart can mean less heart failure and lower lasix.
                        > > >
                        > > > But it is essential that the cardiologist decides which is best. For now
                        > > > you will need to keep that fluid down as the first priority.
                        > > >
                        > > > Lyn
                        > > >
                        > > > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • tourtaney
                        Sorry to hear that.. Keep us posted on how he is doing. Courtney & Maggie
                        Message 11 of 14 , Mar 13 7:52 PM
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                          Sorry to hear that.. Keep us posted on how he is doing.

                          Courtney & Maggie
                        • rosemairew20
                          My Baxter is on 25mg a day of Furosimide. 12.5mg in the AM and 12.5mg PM. I m curious about the Breaths per Minute as well. Last night while he was awake he
                          Message 12 of 14 , Mar 14 10:50 AM
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                            My Baxter is on 25mg a day of Furosimide. 12.5mg in the AM and 12.5mg PM.

                            I'm curious about the Breaths per Minute as well. Last night while he was awake he was around 40-50bpm. Do you only count these when they are asleep or should I be concerned with this rate of breathing during the day. He seemed fine and was active and not doing anything out of the ordinary so I wasn't concerned at the time.

                            I have noticed he gets winded when going potty, the activity of trying to cover his stools or pee seems to make him tired for about 10 minutes and his breathing look a little labored. Should I be concerned by this?

                            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "hoofbeats95" <hoofbeats95@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I'm curious what the respiration weight of everyone's kitties are? My kitty girl is on 20 mg of lasix twice a day and her breathing is 24-28 bpm on any given night. I don't panic until it's above 30. The last time it was above 30 she was full of fluids. So I'm curious as the original poster is upset with 28 bpm, but I'm chugging along at that range. Should I be expecting a lower rate?
                            >
                            > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "binarina1" <binarina@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hello Lyn.
                            > >
                            > > He's on Frusemide, cardisure, fortekor, prilactone, clopidogrel and asprin. He's been doing really well on 40mg. But the bloods said otherwise. He's got a pretty bad spasm around his shoulders which is probably because of low potassium. But that was expected to reduce once the frusemide was lowered, but it didnt. I'll have to see what the cardiologist says, but I'm unsure how soon she can see him. I think a mix of frusemide and prilactone might be the way forward. I'll see what she says. I'm going to give him 30mg today. And see how he is tomorrow.
                            > >
                            > > Thanks for your help. Sara.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@ wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Hi
                            > > >
                            > > > If he needs 40mg a day to control the heart failure, then unfortunately
                            > > > that's what is needed. A high dose will affect kidney function but the heart
                            > > > has to come first. Trixi was on30mg a day at her worst. Now he is stable on
                            > > > 40mg, you need to find ways to be able to reduce it.
                            > > >
                            > > > There are two options. You could ask for spironolactone to add to the
                            > > > lasix, they work together and spiro isn't as damaging to the kidneys. It would
                            > > > possibly be 10mg lasix plus 6mg spiro twice a day. Or you can ask for
                            > > > something else to help the heart function better so the lasix can be reduced.
                            > > > That could be a beta blocker like atenolol, vetmedin or an ace inhibitor like
                            > > > fortekor. Improving the heart can mean less heart failure and lower lasix.
                            > > >
                            > > > But it is essential that the cardiologist decides which is best. For now
                            > > > you will need to keep that fluid down as the first priority.
                            > > >
                            > > > Lyn
                            > > >
                            > > > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • elfinmyst
                            Hi The rate to be measured is the resting rate. So it needs to be done when they are dozing, but not dreaming (paw flicking). Breathing rate will increase
                            Message 13 of 14 , Mar 14 11:29 AM
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                              Hi

                              The rate to be measured is the resting rate. So it needs to be done when
                              they are dozing, but not dreaming (paw flicking). Breathing rate will
                              increase naturally with movement, pleasure from purring etc. What is the most
                              important thing is to look for a change in what is normal in the number of
                              breaths or the quality (pulling stomach in, double breaths, laboured breaths
                              are not normal)

                              Lyn

                              _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • binarina1
                              If since diagnosis his respiratory rate has always been 40-50, and the vet knows this, Then that s where you measure from, if it suddenly became 60 and stayed
                              Message 14 of 14 , Mar 14 12:36 PM
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                                If since diagnosis his respiratory rate has always been 40-50, and the vet knows this, Then that's where you measure from, if it suddenly became 60 and stayed at 60 then that would be a time to worry. I've been lucky that since my cat was diagnosed he was always around 16, so when it shot up to 28 I knew instantly something was wrong. It's just about working out what's normal for your cat and then checking for changes. I know to some of you 28 is nothing, but for my cat it was a big change.

                                I have my boy back now, he's back at around 16. No fluid, nothing much changed heart wise, in fact his left ventricle is smaller than it was on diagnosis. The tablets were obviously working, and the change messed everything up. He's back on 40mg a day now.

                                She said he looks great, and you'd never guess he was so poorly.

                                --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rosemairew20" <rosemariewentz@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > My Baxter is on 25mg a day of Furosimide. 12.5mg in the AM and 12.5mg PM.
                                >
                                > I'm curious about the Breaths per Minute as well. Last night while he was awake he was around 40-50bpm. Do you only count these when they are asleep or should I be concerned with this rate of breathing during the day. He seemed fine and was active and not doing anything out of the ordinary so I wasn't concerned at the time.
                                >
                                > I have noticed he gets winded when going potty, the activity of trying to cover his stools or pee seems to make him tired for about 10 minutes and his breathing look a little labored. Should I be concerned by this?
                                >
                                > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "hoofbeats95" <hoofbeats95@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I'm curious what the respiration weight of everyone's kitties are? My kitty girl is on 20 mg of lasix twice a day and her breathing is 24-28 bpm on any given night. I don't panic until it's above 30. The last time it was above 30 she was full of fluids. So I'm curious as the original poster is upset with 28 bpm, but I'm chugging along at that range. Should I be expecting a lower rate?
                                > >
                                > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "binarina1" <binarina@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Hello Lyn.
                                > > >
                                > > > He's on Frusemide, cardisure, fortekor, prilactone, clopidogrel and asprin. He's been doing really well on 40mg. But the bloods said otherwise. He's got a pretty bad spasm around his shoulders which is probably because of low potassium. But that was expected to reduce once the frusemide was lowered, but it didnt. I'll have to see what the cardiologist says, but I'm unsure how soon she can see him. I think a mix of frusemide and prilactone might be the way forward. I'll see what she says. I'm going to give him 30mg today. And see how he is tomorrow.
                                > > >
                                > > > Thanks for your help. Sara.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@ wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Hi
                                > > > >
                                > > > > If he needs 40mg a day to control the heart failure, then unfortunately
                                > > > > that's what is needed. A high dose will affect kidney function but the heart
                                > > > > has to come first. Trixi was on30mg a day at her worst. Now he is stable on
                                > > > > 40mg, you need to find ways to be able to reduce it.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > There are two options. You could ask for spironolactone to add to the
                                > > > > lasix, they work together and spiro isn't as damaging to the kidneys. It would
                                > > > > possibly be 10mg lasix plus 6mg spiro twice a day. Or you can ask for
                                > > > > something else to help the heart function better so the lasix can be reduced.
                                > > > > That could be a beta blocker like atenolol, vetmedin or an ace inhibitor like
                                > > > > fortekor. Improving the heart can mean less heart failure and lower lasix.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > But it is essential that the cardiologist decides which is best. For now
                                > > > > you will need to keep that fluid down as the first priority.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Lyn
                                > > > >
                                > > > > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
                                > > > >
                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
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