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Re: Anyone familiar with Restrictive Cardiomyopathy?

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  • tourtaney
    Hi Lyn, They said there is a risk of her throwing a clot due to the condition she has but no thrombi were noted during her echo. Her heart rate has increased
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 28, 2013
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      Hi Lyn,

      They said there is a risk of her throwing a clot due to the condition she has but no thrombi were noted during her echo. Her heart rate has increased and her breathing has never dropped below 60 bpm since she was diagnosed. Her breathing is definitely what I am most concerned about. She still eats, drinks and even plays at times but it's so hard to watch her when it looks like breathing is a struggle. I'm concerned about letting her go to long and suffering. I am worried about the risk of throwing a clot because I've been told how painful it is. She has lived such a happy, healthy 12 years and I just don't want her to go out in pain..

      Courtney

      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@... wrote:
      >
      > Hi Courtney
      >
      > None of my cats have RCM, so I`m unfamiliar with the condition. All I can
      > say is ignore the prognosis, all my cats did. Some have lived years beyond
      > their expectation. If fluids are building up, she will need an increase in
      > lasix or addition of spironolactone. Maybe another medication added too to
      > help the heart. Its a balancing act to keep them out of heart failure.
      >
      > Watch her breathing, count 15 secs when she is resting and times by 4. See
      > what is normal and then you can quickly see if fluid builds up. Did the
      > cardiologist say she was at risk of a bloodclot? If so, there are treatments
      > to help prevent that.
      >
      > Lyn
      >
      > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • elfinmyst
      Hi Courtney I think you need to ask your cardiologist to put your cat on plavix which reduces the risk of clots. If not, there is an alternative I would get
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 28, 2013
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        Hi Courtney

        I think you need to ask your cardiologist to put your cat on plavix which
        reduces the risk of clots. If not, there is an alternative I would get
        straight away. It is called Nattokinase, a soya enzyme which actually dissolves
        clots in the blood. I have had cats using it long term, although all mine
        are now on plavix. They can't take both. Nattokinase I use is Doctor's best
        and it does not thin the blood, it removes any clots. It must be a brand
        without vitamin K.

        There is a lot of information about this in the files and others here I am
        sure will recommend it too. My cardiologist wouldn't recommend it as they
        claimed there had been reports of a cerebral bleed in humans, but this study
        the patient was on BOTH plavix and nattokinase. I have used nattokinase
        over years eith Josh, (5 years) and Milli (4 years).

        Lyn

        _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Cynthia Halligan
        Hi Courtney and Maggie,   I am sorry to hear about the RCM diagnosis.  I sincerely hope that Maggie surpasses the length that your vet has given her.  I
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 28, 2013
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          Hi Courtney and Maggie,
           
          I am sorry to hear about the RCM diagnosis.  I sincerely hope that Maggie surpasses the length that your vet has given her.  I think many vets speak from experience.  You may want to consider consulting another cardiologist?
           
          Its been sometime since I've posted about my Caleb.  He had RCM and we had to let him go almost 3 years ago (end of this March will be 3 years).  He lasted alittle longer than 2.5 years from his diagnosis.  And he only had to be hospitalized once - the few days during his initial diagnosis.  He had fluid removed from his lungs then but did not have any fluid buildup again.  We did think however that the day we let him go that he was probably throwing blood clots.  He was doing this leg shaking thing.  Plus his kidneys were in severe distress (severe renal failure).  I gave him 4 medications (plavix, furosemide, spirolactone, and benazepril).  He initially took a higher lasix dose but that was then decreased.   I remember his cardiologist told us that the longest he's seen a cat live with RCM is about 2 years.  I don't know why he lasted a little longer but we tried to love him as much as possible.  The one thing I would do
          differently and will do from now on is I will get a vet to come in to assist me to say goodbye to my animals in our home.  The vet clinic is not a great place and if done properly, you can say goodbye in a very loving and peaceful manner in your home.  I would susepct most animals would prefer this - many veterinarians are now providing this service.
           
          There were various other approaches I took with Caleb and of course it is difficult to say what kept him around for those 2.5 plus years but I wouldn't change not having him in our lives.  Its so difficult to live with a heart kitty.  Its so unfortunate that the vet industry is so expensive.  That I would change if I could.  I really hope Maggie does well and is around for awhile but although it is so difficult we always have to remember about their quality of life.  Kepp us posted about Maggie.
           
          Take care,
           
          Cynthia and Angel Caleb  :)

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • tafoster4000
          My Moe, 17, was diagnosed with RCM on Feb 29th last year, also given 2 months but still here. He went into CHF at that time has been, until reently, on 12.5mg
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 28, 2013
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            My Moe, 17, was diagnosed with RCM on Feb 29th last year, also given 2 months but still here. He went into CHF at that time has been, until reently, on 12.5mg lasix twice a day. That was decreased to 6.25mg twice a day a couple months ago due to increasing BUN/Creat values. He is also on plavix, enalapril, vetmedin and potassium.

            Taca

            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "tourtaney" <tourtaney@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Lyn,
            >
            > They said there is a risk of her throwing a clot due to the condition she has but no thrombi were noted during her echo. Her heart rate has increased and her breathing has never dropped below 60 bpm since she was diagnosed. Her breathing is definitely what I am most concerned about. She still eats, drinks and even plays at times but it's so hard to watch her when it looks like breathing is a struggle. I'm concerned about letting her go to long and suffering. I am worried about the risk of throwing a clot because I've been told how painful it is. She has lived such a happy, healthy 12 years and I just don't want her to go out in pain..
            >
            > Courtney
            >
            > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@ wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Courtney
            > >
            > > None of my cats have RCM, so I`m unfamiliar with the condition. All I can
            > > say is ignore the prognosis, all my cats did. Some have lived years beyond
            > > their expectation. If fluids are building up, she will need an increase in
            > > lasix or addition of spironolactone. Maybe another medication added too to
            > > help the heart. Its a balancing act to keep them out of heart failure.
            > >
            > > Watch her breathing, count 15 secs when she is resting and times by 4. See
            > > what is normal and then you can quickly see if fluid builds up. Did the
            > > cardiologist say she was at risk of a bloodclot? If so, there are treatments
            > > to help prevent that.
            > >
            > > Lyn
            > >
            > > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
          • tourtaney
            I wish Maggie were so lucky. She just doesn t seem to be responding to the diuretic as well anymore...
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 28, 2013
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              I wish Maggie were so lucky. She just doesn't seem to be responding to the diuretic as well anymore...

              --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "tafoster4000" <tafoster4000@...> wrote:
              >
              > My Moe, 17, was diagnosed with RCM on Feb 29th last year, also given 2 months but still here. He went into CHF at that time has been, until reently, on 12.5mg lasix twice a day. That was decreased to 6.25mg twice a day a couple months ago due to increasing BUN/Creat values. He is also on plavix, enalapril, vetmedin and potassium.
              >
              > Taca
              >
              > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "tourtaney" <tourtaney@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Lyn,
              > >
              > > They said there is a risk of her throwing a clot due to the condition she has but no thrombi were noted during her echo. Her heart rate has increased and her breathing has never dropped below 60 bpm since she was diagnosed. Her breathing is definitely what I am most concerned about. She still eats, drinks and even plays at times but it's so hard to watch her when it looks like breathing is a struggle. I'm concerned about letting her go to long and suffering. I am worried about the risk of throwing a clot because I've been told how painful it is. She has lived such a happy, healthy 12 years and I just don't want her to go out in pain..
              > >
              > > Courtney
              > >
              > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@ wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi Courtney
              > > >
              > > > None of my cats have RCM, so I`m unfamiliar with the condition. All I can
              > > > say is ignore the prognosis, all my cats did. Some have lived years beyond
              > > > their expectation. If fluids are building up, she will need an increase in
              > > > lasix or addition of spironolactone. Maybe another medication added too to
              > > > help the heart. Its a balancing act to keep them out of heart failure.
              > > >
              > > > Watch her breathing, count 15 secs when she is resting and times by 4. See
              > > > what is normal and then you can quickly see if fluid builds up. Did the
              > > > cardiologist say she was at risk of a bloodclot? If so, there are treatments
              > > > to help prevent that.
              > > >
              > > > Lyn
              > > >
              > > > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • elfinmyst
              Hi Is Maggie on vetmedin? I can t remember, but it s a great drug in my opinion. Lyn _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/) [Non-text portions of
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 1 2:56 AM
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                Hi

                Is Maggie on vetmedin? I can't remember, but it's a great drug in my
                opinion.

                Lyn

                _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Laurie Stead
                I don t recall the meds Maggie is taking but you mention the diuretic is not working well anymore.  What are the symptoms?  Have you spoken to her
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 1 5:11 AM
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                  I don't recall the meds Maggie is taking but you mention the diuretic is not working well anymore.  What are the symptoms?  Have you spoken to her cardiologist about increasing lasix and/or adding spiro?

                  Laurie



                  ________________________________
                  From: tourtaney <tourtaney@...>
                  To: tafoster4000 <tafoster4000@...>; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 9:07 PM
                  Subject: [FH] Re: Anyone familiar with Restrictive Cardiomyopathy?


                   
                  I wish Maggie were so lucky. She just doesn't seem to be responding to the diuretic as well anymore...

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • tourtaney
                  Maggie is taking 12.5 mg furosemide 2x daily and 2.5 mg benazepril 1x daily. I have started giving her an additional half tablet (6.25mg) furosemide in
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 1 8:11 AM
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                    Maggie is taking 12.5 mg furosemide 2x daily and 2.5 mg benazepril 1x daily. I have started giving her an additional half tablet (6.25mg) furosemide in between the 2 tabs. Since Maggie was first diagnosed on Dec. 1st and the fluids were drained from her chest, her breathing rate has never dropped below 60 bpm. I've been concerned about it but my vet said that could be her new normal. Maggie was also diagnosed with asthma a few years ago but it was found during a routine exam and she's never had sypmtoms from it. we tried treating the asthma when the heart issue was found but the oral and inhaled steriods did NOT agree with her.

                    She is not on Vetmedin because my vet was a little concerned because Maggie has proven to be sensitive to meds. She couldn't handle the inhaled steriods, it caused her breathing to be much worse.

                    But what I'm starting to wonder is, if her breathing is so rapid due to her body needing more oxygen due to the poor heart condition, maybe treating the heart with Vetmedin would also help her breathing. I'm just nervous to try it.. 2 weeks ago, an xray showed some fluids in the chest cavity again, no where near the amount when she was first diagnosed, but still not good.

                    So I'm stuck on what to do.. She still eats, drinks, sleeps and even plays at times. But I can tell she has good days and bad...

                    -Courtney & maggie

                    --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Stead <kittykatwhiskas@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I don't recall the meds Maggie is taking but you mention the diuretic is not working well anymore.  What are the symptoms?  Have you spoken to her cardiologist about increasing lasix and/or adding spiro?
                    >
                    > Laurie
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: tourtaney <tourtaney@...>
                    > To: tafoster4000 <tafoster4000@...>; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 9:07 PM
                    > Subject: [FH] Re: Anyone familiar with Restrictive Cardiomyopathy?
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > I wish Maggie were so lucky. She just doesn't seem to be responding to the diuretic as well anymore...
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • tourtaney
                    She is currently not on it but I ve been speaking to my vet about it and can get some as soon as Sunday. Can you tell me your experience with the drug? What
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 1 1:48 PM
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                      She is currently not on it but I've been speaking to my vet about it and can get some as soon as Sunday. Can you tell me your experience with the drug? What was happening to your kitty when placed on the drug and what kind of noticable signs that it was working?

                      Thanks,
                      Courtney & Maggie

                      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@... wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi
                      >
                      > Is Maggie on vetmedin? I can't remember, but it's a great drug in my
                      > opinion.
                      >
                      > Lyn
                      >
                      > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • tafoster4000
                      When Moe s vet started him on vetmedin, she started with .675mg once a day for a few days, then up to .675 twice a day for a week, then went up to the 1.25mg
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 1 7:42 PM
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                        When Moe's vet started him on vetmedin, she started with .675mg once a day for a few days, then up to .675 twice a day for a week, then went up to the 1.25mg twice a day. Moe had no problems with it. I know his ECHO showed improved heart function while on it.

                        Taca

                        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "tourtaney" <tourtney17@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > She is currently not on it but I've been speaking to my vet about it and can get some as soon as Sunday. Can you tell me your experience with the drug? What was happening to your kitty when placed on the drug and what kind of noticable signs that it was working?
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        > Courtney & Maggie
                        >
                        > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi
                        > >
                        > > Is Maggie on vetmedin? I can't remember, but it's a great drug in my
                        > > opinion.
                        > >
                        > > Lyn
                        > >
                        > > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                      • Laurie Stead
                        Hi Courtney, I definitely think adding vetmedin is worthwhile.  I was apprehensive too and we did it in baby steps to make sure Boo could tolerate it.  Maybe
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 2 5:42 AM
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                          Hi Courtney,

                          I definitely think adding vetmedin is worthwhile.  I was apprehensive too and we did it in baby steps to make sure Boo could tolerate it.  Maybe do 1/4 of a tab in the AM to start and increase it after a week adding a 1/4 PM dose if she is doing well with it.  After several months we worked up to 1/2 tab in the AM and 1/2 tab in the PM with no issues at all. Actually saw much improvement in her overall being. 

                          Have you been taking Maggie's RRR (resting respiratory rate)?  The best way to gauge breathing issues is to count inward breaths while she is at rest (not awake and not in a deep sleep) over 15secs and then multiply by 4 to get her RRR.  This should be under 30, above 30 is cause for alarm but over 40 is an emergency.

                          Laurie




                          ________________________________
                          From: tourtaney <tourtney17@...>
                          To: Laurie Stead <kittykatwhiskas@...>; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 11:11 AM
                          Subject: [FH] Re: Anyone familiar with Restrictive Cardiomyopathy?

                          Maggie is taking 12.5 mg furosemide 2x daily and 2.5 mg benazepril 1x daily.  I have started giving her an additional half tablet (6.25mg) furosemide in between the 2 tabs.  Since Maggie was first diagnosed on Dec. 1st and the fluids were drained from her chest, her breathing rate has never dropped below 60 bpm.  I've been concerned about it but my vet said that could be her new normal.  Maggie was also diagnosed with asthma a few years ago but it was found during a routine exam and she's never had sypmtoms from it.  we tried treating the asthma when the heart issue was found but the oral and inhaled steriods did NOT agree with her.

                          She is not on Vetmedin because my vet was a little concerned because Maggie has proven to be sensitive to meds.  She couldn't handle the inhaled steriods, it caused her breathing to be much worse.

                          But what I'm starting to wonder is, if her breathing is so rapid due to her body
                          needing more oxygen due to the poor heart condition, maybe treating the heart with Vetmedin would also help her breathing.  I'm just nervous to try it.. 2 weeks ago, an xray showed some fluids in the chest cavity again, no where near the amount when she was first diagnosed, but still not good.

                          So I'm stuck on what to do..  She still eats, drinks, sleeps and even plays at times.  But I can tell she has good days and bad...

                          -Courtney & maggie

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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