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Re: [CRF] Lahri Head Twitch???

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  • Sarah Wadey
    Hi Julia, I think twitching can be caused by a number of things: certain drugs, potassium deficiency, ageing and I m sure heaps of other things. I ve not heard
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 27, 2012
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      Hi Julia,

      I think twitching can be caused by a number of things: certain drugs, potassium deficiency, ageing and I'm sure heaps of other things. I've not heard of it associated with viral infections before but I'm no vet.
      My crf/hcm boy has a few head twitches (more pronounced when he's on certain drugs, Bup/Vetergesic for example) - but the neurologist said she sees it quite a lot in older Siamese anyway. (I wonder if Bengals are prone too?) She thinks my boy is hyper-aesthetic and twitches a lot (not just his head, he gets large muscle twitches too) when certain senses are over stimulated, so I think it's different to what your baby has.
      My previous Siamese girl had head twitches for many years in her mid/old age which we never got to the bottom of despite various tests and second opinions. They became more regular as she got older.

      Has the twitching has just started suddenly or has gradually increased over time? It's probably worth mentioning to your vet next time you go so you can at least rule a few things out

      Best

      Sarah & Rascasse x
    • Jordan
      I find this post FASCINATING!! I have an 8 year old special needs (feline asthma/HCM) himalayan (cross between a siamese and persian) kitty. She also
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 28, 2012
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        I find this post FASCINATING!! I have an 8 year old special needs (feline asthma/HCM) himalayan (cross between a siamese and persian) kitty. She also has some eye twitching / head tiliting occassionally, and I have NEVER been able to determine (nor her vets) what causes it.

        Yet you state that it could be prone to Siamese breed? Or age? Do you have any articles and/or documentation on this you could share?

        One vet thought it was more pronounced itching that presented itself as a result of taking her off oral steriods and onto inhaled sterioids instead.

        Any info you can provide is greately appreciated!!

        Thanks,
        Jordan and Sheba




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sarah Wadey
        Since posting my reply yesterday and having someone contact me for further information, which I don t have, I did at least find some notes I made at the time
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 28, 2012
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          Since posting my reply yesterday and having someone contact me for further information, which I don't have, I did at least find some notes I made at the time when talking to my vet.
          While it's not an article or link, it's worth posting here because it corrects an error in my memory (which is rather disturbing and I'm putting down to tiredness....)

          The large muscle twitching and 'rippling' along Rascasse's back were supposedly because he is hyperaethetic, as I mentioned, which means he is over sensitive to touch, irritated by daily sub q's - and THIS is what the neurologist said she saw a lot in Siamese.
          It's very different to the head jerking which I was remembering as the Siamese trait, so not relevant to this thread, and I apologise for mixing this up.
          Anyway since stopping sub q's his constant back rippllng has stopped - by the way we were not doing the sub q's wrong, or pumping him full of air, the vet gave him a couple of sub qs and saw the exact same thing - so I feel the hyperaestic diagnosis may be right. He's happy to have his back stroked, but gets very twitchy/ripply along his back for a minute when he gets shots. Daily jabs make him constantly ripply and jerky to the touch.

          Here's the relevant bit:
          my vet relayed the neuro's comment as "the twitching / head jerking is likely to be due to 'normal' ageing changes - likely some degeneration of the brain/nerves which is seen as animals age especially if their health is not 100%."

          I had asked if the head twitching/jerking could be associated with high phosphorous and calcium numbers, which he had at the time, and the neuro said she thought it unlikely as she would expect to see seizures as a first sign if these were high and not tremors/jerks/shakes.

          Neuro suggested we could try Vivitonin (not licenses in cats in UK) as it increases blood flow to heart and brain and is used routinely in dogs for brain changes (and also in some cats she has seen). Since Vivitonin had also been mentioned for Ras's heart (he had just been diagnosed with HCM too) we did try Vivitonin for a short time. It did not appear to help his head twitching, although I'm not sure we tried it long enough to give a fair report, as his HR was very fast and we decided to switch to Atenolol.

          His head jerks do seem fewer now. I feel that they may be more pronounced when he is not so stable and feeling less well. But I also feel strong meds make him this way too. Since both possible events are likely to co-incide it's hard to pin it down more.
          But given the fact the head jerking with my previous girl did increase as she got older and sicker, I feel fairly happy with the explanation above from the neuro.

          Again apologies for my mistake before, hope this helps

          Best

          Sarah



          Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:12 pm (PST) . Posted by:"Sarah Wadey" razzmans_mum


          >Hi Julia,

          I think twitching can be caused by a number of things: certain drugs, potassium deficiency, ageing and I'm sure heaps of other things. I've not heard of it associated with viral infections before but I'm no vet.
          My crf/hcm boy has a few head twitches (more pronounced when he's on certain drugs, Bup/Vetergesic for example) - but the neurologist said she sees it quite a lot in older Siamese anyway. (I wonder if Bengals are prone too?) She thinks my boy is hyper-aesthetic and twitches a lot (not just his head, he gets large muscle twitches too) when certain senses are over stimulated, so I think it's different to what your baby has.
          My previous Siamese girl had head twitches for many years in her mid/old age which we never got to the bottom of despite various tests and second opinions. They became more regular as she got older.

          Has the twitching has just started suddenly or has gradually increased over time? It's probably worth mentioning to your vet next time you go so you can at least rule a few things out

          Best

          Sarah & Rascasse x

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mary beth fitzpatrick
          Thanks for this, Sarah ! Really appreciate the follow-through. Both the ageing as well as health aspects make lots of sense to me, and I m feeling pretty
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 28, 2012
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            Thanks for this, Sarah ! Really appreciate the follow-through.

            Both the ageing as well as health aspects make lots of sense to me, and I'm feeling pretty sure Lahri's twitching was a function of the herpes flare-up and all the violent sneezing he was doing. Fortunately, I suddenly noticed one of the last mornings that he wasn't doing it any longer - and that did coincide with a lessening of the sneezing.

            The kind of information you are putting out here is very, very useful - I'm sure to a lot of us. Thanks for every morsel of it.

            mb and lahri
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Sarah Wadey
            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 4:04 PM
            Subject: [FH] Re: [CRF] Lahri Head Twitch???



            Since posting my reply yesterday and having someone contact me for further information, which I don't have, I did at least find some notes I made at the time when talking to my vet.
            While it's not an article or link, it's worth posting here because it corrects an error in my memory (which is rather disturbing and I'm putting down to tiredness....)

            The large muscle twitching and 'rippling' along Rascasse's back were supposedly because he is hyperaethetic, as I mentioned, which means he is over sensitive to touch, irritated by daily sub q's - and THIS is what the neurologist said she saw a lot in Siamese.
            It's very different to the head jerking which I was remembering as the Siamese trait, so not relevant to this thread, and I apologise for mixing this up.
            Anyway since stopping sub q's his constant back rippllng has stopped - by the way we were not doing the sub q's wrong, or pumping him full of air, the vet gave him a couple of sub qs and saw the exact same thing - so I feel the hyperaestic diagnosis may be right. He's happy to have his back stroked, but gets very twitchy/ripply along his back for a minute when he gets shots. Daily jabs make him constantly ripply and jerky to the touch.

            Here's the relevant bit:
            my vet relayed the neuro's comment as "the twitching / head jerking is likely to be due to 'normal' ageing changes - likely some degeneration of the brain/nerves which is seen as animals age especially if their health is not 100%."

            I had asked if the head twitching/jerking could be associated with high phosphorous and calcium numbers, which he had at the time, and the neuro said she thought it unlikely as she would expect to see seizures as a first sign if these were high and not tremors/jerks/shakes.

            Neuro suggested we could try Vivitonin (not licenses in cats in UK) as it increases blood flow to heart and brain and is used routinely in dogs for brain changes (and also in some cats she has seen). Since Vivitonin had also been mentioned for Ras's heart (he had just been diagnosed with HCM too) we did try Vivitonin for a short time. It did not appear to help his head twitching, although I'm not sure we tried it long enough to give a fair report, as his HR was very fast and we decided to switch to Atenolol.

            His head jerks do seem fewer now. I feel that they may be more pronounced when he is not so stable and feeling less well. But I also feel strong meds make him this way too. Since both possible events are likely to co-incide it's hard to pin it down more.
            But given the fact the head jerking with my previous girl did increase as she got older and sicker, I feel fairly happy with the explanation above from the neuro.

            Again apologies for my mistake before, hope this helps

            Best

            Sarah

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          • Julia Jennings
            Hi Sara, Thanks for your response.  Dante s head twitching seems to have increased somewhat as he ages but he doesn t do it all the time.  I don t think he s
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 29, 2012
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              Hi Sara,
              Thanks for your response.  Dante's head twitching seems to have increased somewhat as he ages but he doesn't do it all the time.  I don't think he's in pain I just look at him while it's happening and it's kind of weird.  He will be 13 in April.  He has CRF/asthma, the HCM possibility was ruled out by a specialist who did an echo on him.  I have never heard of the head twitching being specific to bengals.  I have mentioned it to my vet before and they just say oh really and I don't get a great explanation.  Your neuro guy's explanation sounds like the best one I've heard.  Dante' isn't really on alot of meds, just liquid terbutaline 2x day (can't get any Flovent into him, he won't let me) and he is on an allergy hyposensitization program (which I don't feel is really working).  So, that's it.  Thanks for the information though this head twitching has always puzzled me.
              Julia and Dante'

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