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Saddle Thrombus

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  • kltds1
    Hello, I am new to the group and writing because my 4 y.o. cat Indy developed a saddle thrombus. This happened some time Thursday and I found her late
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 8, 2012
      Hello,

      I am new to the group and writing because my 4 y.o. cat Indy developed a saddle thrombus. This happened some time Thursday and I found her late Thursday night. The emergency vet said my only option was immediate euthanasia. I took her to my regular vet the next day and we tried herbs to soften the clot, but the lower legs remain without measurable blood pressure at the 48 hour mark, so she, too has now recommended euthanasia.

      She said even if the clot now dissolves she fears the necrotic tissues will overwhelm the cat’s system. Parts of the leg muscles are getting "congested" (swelling with fluids) and she had no pain response in the back legs or tail. Yet when I got home an hour later, Indy started wagging her tail in fact thumping it angrily when I gave her subâ€"Q fluids. So some reanimation is happening in the “dead” limbs though not in the legs yet.

      The only reason I continue investigating is because of reading success stories despite the stats. Indy still has fight in her. I have been giving fluids (moderate due to the possible heart condition though she is very dehydrated), force feeding (just Nutrical and water) and Buprenex, but today she is very nauseous so the Buprenex and Nutrical will not stay down. I don’t want her to suffer â€" esp now that the pain meds may not be staying in her long enough to work. But if anyone has any useful advice, I would rather hear it before we make her final decision today in a few hours.

      Thanks so much,
      Kendra
    • Laurie Stead
      Kendra, I am so sorry about Indy.  I don t have experience with treating this but I do know others in the group have been successful.  I am surprised you
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 8, 2012
        Kendra, I am so sorry about Indy.  I don't have experience with treating this but I do know others in the group have been successful.  I am surprised you were not given medications to dissolve the blood clot and to prevent future ones??  From my understanding it can be very painful and cats are known to cry in pain.  It does not sound like that happened with Indy so perhaps she can recover.

        I am changing the subject with more urgency since you need more info right away.

        We will pray for Indy and keep pawsitive thoughts for her.

        Laurie


        --- On Sat, 12/8/12, kltds1 <kdesantolo@...> wrote:

        From: kltds1 <kdesantolo@...>
        Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombus
        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 10:52 AM
















         











        Hello,



        I am new to the group and writing because my 4 y.o. cat Indy developed a saddle thrombus. This happened some time Thursday and I found her late Thursday night. The emergency vet said my only option was immediate euthanasia. I took her to my regular vet the next day and we tried herbs to soften the clot, but the lower legs remain without measurable blood pressure at the 48 hour mark, so she, too has now recommended euthanasia.



        She said even if the clot now dissolves she fears the necrotic tissues will overwhelm the cat’s system. Parts of the leg muscles are getting "congested" (swelling with fluids) and she had no pain response in the back legs or tail. Yet when I got home an hour later, Indy started wagging her tail in fact thumping it angrily when I gave her subâ€"Q fluids. So some reanimation is happening in the “deadâ€� limbs though not in the legs yet.



        The only reason I continue investigating is because of reading success stories despite the stats. Indy still has fight in her. I have been giving fluids (moderate due to the possible heart condition though she is very dehydrated), force feeding (just Nutrical and water) and Buprenex, but today she is very nauseous so the Buprenex and Nutrical will not stay down. I don’t want her to suffer â€" esp now that the pain meds may not be staying in her long enough to work. But if anyone has any useful advice, I would rather hear it before we make her final decision today in a few hours.



        Thanks so much,

        Kendra









        __.
















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lynn
        Kendra, My heart goes out to you. These are such difficult decisions!!! This is such a personal decision, but  I have always wondered, did I do this too early
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 8, 2012
          Kendra,

          My heart goes out to you. These are such difficult decisions!!!

          This is such a personal decision, but  I have always wondered, did I do this too early or did I wait too long?

          It sounds like you are not sure; that you are going along with what the vets recommend. I've written to you about our success story on one of the other lists. I do think blood thinners could be important as well as seeing a cardiologist.

          But YOU know your cat. You are seeing positive signs. You could get something to inject for pain if you choose not to euthanize.

          Not being a vet, I don't know. My ki had been paralyzed in his back legs for a least a week when he had CHF. His leg pulses were weak. He was miserable. It was difficult. None of the doctors thought he would survive, but I was lucky none of them told me that, because he is here 8 years later.

          I do think if there is doubt, get a back up plan for pain and nutrition and give it more time until you are sure. So many people get the digest, so I worry they won't get your post in time. Do trying searching the archives. Perhaps you can find information there that may help you.

          All my best to you.

          Lynn

          --- On Sat, 12/8/12, Laurie Stead <kittykatwhiskas@...> wrote:

          From: Laurie Stead <kittykatwhiskas@...>
          Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombus - URGENT NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 8:08 AM
















           









          Kendra, I am so sorry about Indy.  I don't have experience with treating this but I do know others in the group have been successful.  I am surprised you were not given medications to dissolve the blood clot and to prevent future ones??  From my understanding it can be very painful and cats are known to cry in pain.  It does not sound like that happened with Indy so perhaps she can recover.



          I am changing the subject with more urgency since you need more info right away.



          We will pray for Indy and keep pawsitive thoughts for her.



          Laurie



          --- On Sat, 12/8/12, kltds1 <kdesantolo@...> wrote:



          From: kltds1 <kdesantolo@...>

          Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombus

          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com

          Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 10:52 AM



           



          Hello,



          I am new to the group and writing because my 4 y.o. cat Indy developed a saddle thrombus. This happened some time Thursday and I found her late Thursday night. The emergency vet said my only option was immediate euthanasia. I took her to my regular vet the next day and we tried herbs to soften the clot, but the lower legs remain without measurable blood pressure at the 48 hour mark, so she, too has now recommended euthanasia.



          She said even if the clot now dissolves she fears the necrotic tissues will overwhelm the cat’s system. Parts of the leg muscles are getting "congested" (swelling with fluids) and she had no pain response in the back legs or tail. Yet when I got home an hour later, Indy started wagging her tail in fact thumping it angrily when I gave her subâ€"Q fluids. So some reanimation is happening in the “deadâ€� limbs though not in the legs yet.



          The only reason I continue investigating is because of reading success stories despite the stats. Indy still has fight in her. I have been giving fluids (moderate due to the possible heart condition though she is very dehydrated), force feeding (just Nutrical and water) and Buprenex, but today she is very nauseous so the Buprenex and Nutrical will not stay down. I don’t want her to suffer â€" esp now that the pain meds may not be staying in her long enough to work. But if anyone has any useful advice, I would rather hear it before we make her final decision today in a few hours.



          Thanks so much,



          Kendra



          __.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • BubbaCat1@aol.com
          Don t they use something like heparin to dissolve those clots? And then follow up with another anticoagulant? I know I ve seen treatment plans discussed on
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 8, 2012
            Don't they use something like heparin to dissolve those clots? And then
            follow up with another anticoagulant? I know I've seen treatment plans
            discussed on this group, so hope someone is home today and can answer quickly!

            Meanwhile, you could search the archives & files for more info .....

            Paws crossed for Indy,
            Jo
            ________________________




            In a message dated 12/8/2012 11:08:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
            kittykatwhiskas@... writes:




            Kendra, I am so sorry about Indy. I don't have experience with treating
            this but I do know others in the group have been successful. I am surprised
            you were not given medications to dissolve the blood clot and to prevent
            future ones?? From my understanding it can be very painful and cats are
            known to cry in pain. It does not sound like that happened with Indy so
            perhaps she can recover.

            I am changing the subject with more urgency since you need more info right
            away.

            We will pray for Indy and keep pawsitive thoughts for her.

            Laurie

            --- On Sat, 12/8/12, kltds1 <_kdesantolo@..._
            (mailto:kdesantolo@...) > wrote:

            From: kltds1 <_kdesantolo@..._ (mailto:kdesantolo@...) >
            Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombus
            To: _feline-heart@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com)
            Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 10:52 AM



            Hello,

            I am new to the group and writing because my 4 y.o. cat Indy developed a
            saddle thrombus. This happened some time Thursday and I found her late
            Thursday night. The emergency vet said my only option was immediate euthanasia.
            I took her to my regular vet the next day and we tried herbs to soften the
            clot, but the lower legs remain without measurable blood pressure at the 48
            hour mark, so she, too has now recommended euthanasia.

            She said even if the clot now dissolves she fears the necrotic tissues
            will overwhelm the cat’s system. Parts of the leg muscles are getting
            "congested" (swelling with fluids) and she had no pain response in the back legs
            or tail. Yet when I got home an hour later, Indy started wagging her tail
            in fact thumping it angrily when I gave her subâ€"Q fluids. So some
            reanimation is happening in the “dead� limbs though not in the legs yet.

            The only reason I continue investigating is because of reading success
            stories despite the stats. Indy still has fight in her. I have been giving
            fluids (moderate due to the possible heart condition though she is very
            dehydrated), force feeding (just Nutrical and water) and Buprenex, but today she
            is very nauseous so the Buprenex and Nutrical will not stay down. I don’
            t want her to suffer â€" esp now that the pain meds may not be staying in
            her long enough to work. But if anyone has any useful advice, I would rather
            hear it before we make her final decision today in a few hours.

            Thanks so much,

            Kendra

            __.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Westgold
            This really upsets me. Yes, they should have used heparin. This is extremely serious and is NOT the place to go to a holistic vet who uses herbs. If you
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 8, 2012
              This really upsets me. Yes, they should have used heparin. This is extremely serious and is NOT the place to go to a holistic vet who uses herbs. If you have a kitty with heart disease, you need a real cardiologist.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: BubbaCat1@...
              To: kittykatwhiskas@... ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 11:40 AM
              Subject: Re: [FH] Saddle Thrombus - URGENT NEED HELP ASAP!!!!



              Don't they use something like heparin to dissolve those clots? And then
              follow up with another anticoagulant? I know I've seen treatment plans
              discussed on this group, so hope someone is home today and can answer quickly!

              Meanwhile, you could search the archives & files for more info .....

              Paws crossed for Indy,
              Jo
              ________________________




              In a message dated 12/8/2012 11:08:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              kittykatwhiskas@... writes:

              Kendra, I am so sorry about Indy. I don't have experience with treating
              this but I do know others in the group have been successful. I am surprised
              you were not given medications to dissolve the blood clot and to prevent
              future ones?? From my understanding it can be very painful and cats are
              known to cry in pain. It does not sound like that happened with Indy so
              perhaps she can recover.

              I am changing the subject with more urgency since you need more info right
              away.

              We will pray for Indy and keep pawsitive thoughts for her.

              Laurie

              --- On Sat, 12/8/12, kltds1 <_kdesantolo@..._
              (mailto:kdesantolo@...) > wrote:

              From: kltds1 <_kdesantolo@..._ (mailto:kdesantolo@...) >
              Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombus
              To: _feline-heart@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com)
              Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 10:52 AM

              Hello,

              I am new to the group and writing because my 4 y.o. cat Indy developed a
              saddle thrombus. This happened some time Thursday and I found her late
              Thursday night. The emergency vet said my only option was immediate euthanasia.
              I took her to my regular vet the next day and we tried herbs to soften the
              clot, but the lower legs remain without measurable blood pressure at the 48
              hour mark, so she, too has now recommended euthanasia.

              She said even if the clot now dissolves she fears the necrotic tissues
              will overwhelm the cat’s system. Parts of the leg muscles are getting
              "congested" (swelling with fluids) and she had no pain response in the back legs
              or tail. Yet when I got home an hour later, Indy started wagging her tail
              in fact thumping it angrily when I gave her subâ€"Q fluids. So some
              reanimation is happening in the “dead� limbs though not in the legs yet.

              The only reason I continue investigating is because of reading success
              stories despite the stats. Indy still has fight in her. I have been giving
              fluids (moderate due to the possible heart condition though she is very
              dehydrated), force feeding (just Nutrical and water) and Buprenex, but today she
              is very nauseous so the Buprenex and Nutrical will not stay down. I don’
              t want her to suffer â€" esp now that the pain meds may not be staying in
              her long enough to work. But if anyone has any useful advice, I would rather
              hear it before we make her final decision today in a few hours.

              Thanks so much,

              Kendra

              __.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Banu Korgul
              I am very sorry about your kitty.. I have heard Nattokinase (without vit K) has clot dissolving effects.. Maybe you want to try..   Best wishes.. banu   ...
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 8, 2012
                I am very sorry about your kitty.. I have heard Nattokinase (without vit K) has clot dissolving effects..
                Maybe you want to try..
                 
                Best wishes..
                banu
                 

                >________________________________
                > From: Lynn <mosaic.artist@...>
                >To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Laurie Stead <kittykatwhiskas@...>
                >Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 6:36 PM
                >Subject: Re: [FH] Saddle Thrombus - URGENT NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
                >
                >

                >
                >Kendra,
                >
                >My heart goes out to you. These are such difficult decisions!!!
                >
                >This is such a personal decision, but  I have always wondered, did I do this too early or did I wait too long?
                >
                >It sounds like you are not sure; that you are going along with what the vets recommend. I've written to you about our success story on one of the other lists. I do think blood thinners could be important as well as seeing a cardiologist.
                >
                >But YOU know your cat. You are seeing positive signs. You could get something to inject for pain if you choose not to euthanize.
                >
                >Not being a vet, I don't know. My ki had been paralyzed in his back legs for a least a week when he had CHF. His leg pulses were weak. He was miserable. It was difficult. None of the doctors thought he would survive, but I was lucky none of them told me that, because he is here 8 years later.
                >
                >I do think if there is doubt, get a back up plan for pain and nutrition and give it more time until you are sure. So many people get the digest, so I worry they won't get your post in time. Do trying searching the archives. Perhaps you can find information there that may help you.
                >
                >All my best to you.
                >
                >Lynn
                >
                >--- On Sat, 12/8/12, Laurie Stead <mailto:kittykatwhiskas%40yahoo.com> wrote:
                >
                >From: Laurie Stead <mailto:kittykatwhiskas%40yahoo.com>
                >Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombus - URGENT NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
                >To: mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com
                >Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 8:08 AM
                >

                >
                >Kendra, I am so sorry about Indy.  I don't have experience with treating this but I do know others in the group have been successful.  I am surprised you were not given medications to dissolve the blood clot and to prevent future ones??  From my understanding it can be very painful and cats are known to cry in pain.  It does not sound like that happened with Indy so perhaps she can recover.
                >
                >I am changing the subject with more urgency since you need more info right away.
                >
                >We will pray for Indy and keep pawsitive thoughts for her.
                >
                >Laurie
                >
                >--- On Sat, 12/8/12, kltds1 <mailto:kdesantolo%40gmail.com> wrote:
                >
                >From: kltds1 <mailto:kdesantolo%40gmail.com>
                >
                >Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombus
                >
                >To: mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com
                >
                >Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 10:52 AM
                >

                >
                >Hello,
                >
                >I am new to the group and writing because my 4 y.o. cat Indy developed a saddle thrombus. This happened some time Thursday and I found her late Thursday night. The emergency vet said my only option was immediate euthanasia. I took her to my regular vet the next day and we tried herbs to soften the clot, but the lower legs remain without measurable blood pressure at the 48 hour mark, so she, too has now recommended euthanasia.
                >
                >She said even if the clot now dissolves she fears the necrotic tissues will overwhelm the cat’s system. Parts of the leg muscles are getting "congested" (swelling with fluids) and she had no pain response in the back legs or tail. Yet when I got home an hour later, Indy started wagging her tail in fact thumping it angrily when I gave her subâ€"Q fluids. So some reanimation is happening in the “deadâ€� limbs though not in the legs yet.
                >
                >The only reason I continue investigating is because of reading success stories despite the stats. Indy still has fight in her. I have been giving fluids (moderate due to the possible heart condition though she is very dehydrated), force feeding (just Nutrical and water) and Buprenex, but today she is very nauseous so the Buprenex and Nutrical will not stay down. I don’t want her to suffer â€" esp now that the pain meds may not be staying in her long enough to work. But if anyone has any useful advice, I would rather hear it before we make her final decision today in a few hours.
                >
                >Thanks so much,
                >
                >Kendra
                >
                >__.
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Kendra DeSantolo
                Thank you Lynn, Laurie, Jo, Banu and others for your help and advice. Sorry for the group reply, rushing against time here. I have contacted a second vet --
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 8, 2012
                  Thank you Lynn, Laurie, Jo, Banu and others for your help and advice.
                  Sorry for the group reply, rushing against time here. I have contacted a
                  second vet -- not a cardiologist but just to see if there is anything not
                  yet considered. I don't know if I could get in to a specialist on a
                  weekend and wonder if they would require a referring vet who is on board?

                  I personally have and use heparin. I am a long time anti-coagulation
                  patient myself and was prepared to consider trying it if I could find
                  dosage guidance. But what the vet said was that we found her too late with
                  this condition and once it becomes advanced the circulation has to be
                  reintroduced gradually rather than suddenly or else you flood the body with
                  toxins (gangrene? or dying tissue?) that could be a horrible trauma to the
                  cat even worse than now and cause sudden death of heart muscle and
                  kidneys. She felt strongly about this and said the herbs were strong
                  medicine, as aggressive as she could offer (I have seen her herbs work
                  miracles in the past). Challenge was getting enough of them into a nauseous
                  cat. And now since Plan A did not work, the limbs may be irreversibly
                  damaged. I will post later what the other vet tells me.

                  Thanks again,
                  Kendra



                  On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Banu Korgul <banukorgul@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > I am very sorry about your kitty.. I have heard Nattokinase (without vit
                  > K) has clot dissolving effects..
                  > Maybe you want to try..
                  >
                  > Best wishes..
                  > banu
                  >
                  >
                  > >________________________________
                  > > From: Lynn <mosaic.artist@...>
                  > >To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Laurie Stead <kittykatwhiskas@...>
                  >
                  > >Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 6:36 PM
                  > >Subject: Re: [FH] Saddle Thrombus - URGENT NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >Kendra,
                  > >
                  > >My heart goes out to you. These are such difficult decisions!!!
                  > >
                  > >This is such a personal decision, but I have always wondered, did I do
                  > this too early or did I wait too long?
                  > >
                  > >It sounds like you are not sure; that you are going along with what the
                  > vets recommend. I've written to you about our success story on one of the
                  > other lists. I do think blood thinners could be important as well as seeing
                  > a cardiologist.
                  > >
                  > >But YOU know your cat. You are seeing positive signs. You could get
                  > something to inject for pain if you choose not to euthanize.
                  > >
                  > >Not being a vet, I don't know. My ki had been paralyzed in his back legs
                  > for a least a week when he had CHF. His leg pulses were weak. He was
                  > miserable. It was difficult. None of the doctors thought he would survive,
                  > but I was lucky none of them told me that, because he is here 8 years later.
                  > >
                  > >I do think if there is doubt, get a back up plan for pain and nutrition
                  > and give it more time until you are sure. So many people get the digest, so
                  > I worry they won't get your post in time. Do trying searching the archives.
                  > Perhaps you can find information there that may help you.
                  > >
                  > >All my best to you.
                  > >
                  > >Lynn
                  > >
                  > >--- On Sat, 12/8/12, Laurie Stead <mailto:kittykatwhiskas%40yahoo.com>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > >From: Laurie Stead <mailto:kittykatwhiskas%40yahoo.com>
                  >
                  > >Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombus - URGENT NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
                  > >To: mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > >Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 8:08 AM
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >Kendra, I am so sorry about Indy. I don't have experience with treating
                  > this but I do know others in the group have been successful. I am
                  > surprised you were not given medications to dissolve the blood clot and to
                  > prevent future ones?? From my understanding it can be very painful and
                  > cats are known to cry in pain. It does not sound like that happened with
                  > Indy so perhaps she can recover.
                  > >
                  > >I am changing the subject with more urgency since you need more info
                  > right away.
                  > >
                  > >We will pray for Indy and keep pawsitive thoughts for her.
                  > >
                  > >Laurie
                  > >
                  > >--- On Sat, 12/8/12, kltds1 <mailto:kdesantolo%40gmail.com> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >From: kltds1 <mailto:kdesantolo%40gmail.com>
                  > >
                  > >Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombus
                  > >
                  > >To: mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > >
                  > >Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 10:52 AM
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >Hello,
                  > >
                  > >I am new to the group and writing because my 4 y.o. cat Indy developed a
                  > saddle thrombus. This happened some time Thursday and I found her late
                  > Thursday night. The emergency vet said my only option was immediate
                  > euthanasia. I took her to my regular vet the next day and we tried herbs to
                  > soften the clot, but the lower legs remain without measurable blood
                  > pressure at the 48 hour mark, so she, too has now recommended euthanasia.
                  > >
                  > >She said even if the clot now dissolves she fears the necrotic tissues
                  > will overwhelm the cat’s system. Parts of the leg muscles are getting
                  > "congested" (swelling with fluids) and she had no pain response in the back
                  > legs or tail. Yet when I got home an hour later, Indy started wagging her
                  > tail in fact thumping it angrily when I gave her subâ€"Q fluids. So some
                  > reanimation is happening in the “dead� limbs though not in the legs
                  > yet.
                  > >
                  > >The only reason I continue investigating is because of reading success
                  > stories despite the stats. Indy still has fight in her. I have been giving
                  > fluids (moderate due to the possible heart condition though she is very
                  > dehydrated), force feeding (just Nutrical and water) and Buprenex, but
                  > today she is very nauseous so the Buprenex and Nutrical will not stay down.
                  > I don’t want her to suffer â€" esp now that the pain meds may not be
                  > staying in her long enough to work. But if anyone has any useful advice, I
                  > would rather hear it before we make her final decision today in a few hours.
                  > >
                  > >Thanks so much,
                  > >
                  > >Kendra
                  > >
                  > >__.
                  > >
                  > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • janie
                  This is a long shot. Are you in Indiana? I see the cats name is Indy. If so you can go to Purdue University and get great care. If you are not in that county
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 8, 2012
                    This is a long shot. Are you in Indiana? I see the cats name is Indy.
                    If so you can go to Purdue University and get great care. If you are
                    not in that county your vet can refer you and go in as an emergency.
                    Just a thought You may not be

                    I had bad advise to put my baby to sleep years ago and I should not
                    have done it at the time years ago though the treatment may not have
                    let her last.

                    There is a lot of cats on here that have had this and is still alive.
                    You need some better dr. You prob need blood thiner or baby aspirin
                    and what is wrong with her now heart meds. A cardiologist is the best
                    approach. If Indy is wagging tail not ready to go keep fighting. Some
                    get well on there own if they dont throw another.
                    Janie
                  • Darlene Handley
                    A cardiologist or at the least a internist specialist; my boy Boone had the same thing happen to him at 5 yo; suddenly my Mom found him dragging himself around
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 8, 2012
                      A cardiologist or at the least a internist specialist; my boy Boone had the
                      same thing happen to him at 5 yo; suddenly my Mom found him dragging himself
                      around the house crying - extremely painful! I tear up thinking about your
                      kitty and Boone having to endure this. Eventually, Boone threw another clot
                      to his brain before we could euthanize and he died on his own (but not
                      alone) and try any treatment like Heparin. Course, this was 7 years ago
                      now, you would think more vets would have this information more readily
                      available.



                      Typically, a heart murmur is a early indication of potential heart issues
                      (but not always); their little hearts can change a lot between 1-3 years and
                      during that time every vet visit should include checking for a heart murmur.




                      I am so sorry to hear of this heartbreaking event for your baby.



                      Darlene and Angel Skeet (and Boone, Kita, Pepsi, Helmet, Seeger, Spook,
                      Bacio and most recently Skeet)







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • acrocat@rocketmail.com
                      Re: the use of heparin etc. Just to clarify, heparin does not dissolve the clot. Its use (usually in a specific form called fractionated or low molecular
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 8, 2012
                        Re: the use of heparin etc.

                        Just to clarify, heparin does not dissolve the clot. Its use (usually in a specific form called fractionated or low molecular weight heparin) in clot cats is meant to keep the clot from getting bigger, and to help prevent other clots from forming. Whether it works for this purpose is not definitively known.

                        The only clot-busting agent used in these cases would be streptokinase. It is really almost never used in cats because it is expensive (too expensive to keep in stock) and quite high-risk. It breaks up clots indiscriminately (we make 'appropriate' clots all the time) and there is a high risk of reperfusion injury--what Kendra referred to in the below snippet. Unless one is there to witness the clot event and immediately transport the cat to the vet, there is a risk of fatal reperfusion injury if streptokinase is used. The treatment for saddle thrombus is mainly supportive -- pain meds, use of LMW heparin to help stave off further clot formation, treatment of CHF if it occurs at the same time, and monitoring for reperfusion injury. The body can break the clot down, and if it happens soon enough after the clot is formed, the leg(s) can be saved. However, a cat who throws one clot is extremely likely to have another, so the reprieve may be short-lived.

                        Adriann


                        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Kendra DeSantolo <kdesantolo@...> wrote:
                        > But what the vet said was that we found her too late with
                        > this condition and once it becomes advanced the circulation has to be
                        > reintroduced gradually rather than suddenly or else you flood the body with
                        > toxins (gangrene? or dying tissue?) that could be a horrible trauma to the
                        > cat even worse than now and cause sudden death of heart muscle and
                        > kidneys. She felt strongly about this and said the herbs were strong
                        > medicine, as aggressive as she could offer (I have seen her herbs work
                        > miracles in the past). Challenge was getting enough of them into a nauseous
                        > cat. And now since Plan A did not work, the limbs may be irreversibly
                        > damaged. I will post later what the other vet tells me.
                        >
                        > Thanks again,
                        > Kendra
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Banu Korgul <banukorgul@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > **
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I am very sorry about your kitty.. I have heard Nattokinase (without vit
                        > > K) has clot dissolving effects..
                        > > Maybe you want to try..
                        > >
                        > > Best wishes..
                        > > banu
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > >________________________________
                        > > > From: Lynn <mosaic.artist@...>
                        > > >To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Laurie Stead <kittykatwhiskas@...>
                        > >
                        > > >Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 6:36 PM
                        > > >Subject: Re: [FH] Saddle Thrombus - URGENT NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >Kendra,
                        > > >
                        > > >My heart goes out to you. These are such difficult decisions!!!
                        > > >
                        > > >This is such a personal decision, but I have always wondered, did I do
                        > > this too early or did I wait too long?
                        > > >
                        > > >It sounds like you are not sure; that you are going along with what the
                        > > vets recommend. I've written to you about our success story on one of the
                        > > other lists. I do think blood thinners could be important as well as seeing
                        > > a cardiologist.
                        > > >
                        > > >But YOU know your cat. You are seeing positive signs. You could get
                        > > something to inject for pain if you choose not to euthanize.
                        > > >
                        > > >Not being a vet, I don't know. My ki had been paralyzed in his back legs
                        > > for a least a week when he had CHF. His leg pulses were weak. He was
                        > > miserable. It was difficult. None of the doctors thought he would survive,
                        > > but I was lucky none of them told me that, because he is here 8 years later.
                        > > >
                        > > >I do think if there is doubt, get a back up plan for pain and nutrition
                        > > and give it more time until you are sure. So many people get the digest, so
                        > > I worry they won't get your post in time. Do trying searching the archives.
                        > > Perhaps you can find information there that may help you.
                        > > >
                        > > >All my best to you.
                        > > >
                        > > >Lynn
                        > > >
                        > > >--- On Sat, 12/8/12, Laurie Stead <mailto:kittykatwhiskas%40yahoo.com>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >From: Laurie Stead <mailto:kittykatwhiskas%40yahoo.com>
                        > >
                        > > >Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombus - URGENT NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
                        > > >To: mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > > >Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 8:08 AM
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >Kendra, I am so sorry about Indy. I don't have experience with treating
                        > > this but I do know others in the group have been successful. I am
                        > > surprised you were not given medications to dissolve the blood clot and to
                        > > prevent future ones?? From my understanding it can be very painful and
                        > > cats are known to cry in pain. It does not sound like that happened with
                        > > Indy so perhaps she can recover.
                        > > >
                        > > >I am changing the subject with more urgency since you need more info
                        > > right away.
                        > > >
                        > > >We will pray for Indy and keep pawsitive thoughts for her.
                        > > >
                        > > >Laurie
                        > > >
                        > > >--- On Sat, 12/8/12, kltds1 <mailto:kdesantolo%40gmail.com> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >From: kltds1 <mailto:kdesantolo%40gmail.com>
                        > > >
                        > > >Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombus
                        > > >
                        > > >To: mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > >Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 10:52 AM
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >Hello,
                        > > >
                        > > >I am new to the group and writing because my 4 y.o. cat Indy developed a
                        > > saddle thrombus. This happened some time Thursday and I found her late
                        > > Thursday night. The emergency vet said my only option was immediate
                        > > euthanasia. I took her to my regular vet the next day and we tried herbs to
                        > > soften the clot, but the lower legs remain without measurable blood
                        > > pressure at the 48 hour mark, so she, too has now recommended euthanasia.
                        > > >
                        > > >She said even if the clot now dissolves she fears the necrotic tissues
                        > > will overwhelm the cat’s system. Parts of the leg muscles are getting
                        > > "congested" (swelling with fluids) and she had no pain response in the back
                        > > legs or tail. Yet when I got home an hour later, Indy started wagging her
                        > > tail in fact thumping it angrily when I gave her subâ€"Q fluids. So some
                        > > reanimation is happening in the â€Å"dead� limbs though not in the legs
                        > > yet.
                        > > >
                        > > >The only reason I continue investigating is because of reading success
                        > > stories despite the stats. Indy still has fight in her. I have been giving
                        > > fluids (moderate due to the possible heart condition though she is very
                        > > dehydrated), force feeding (just Nutrical and water) and Buprenex, but
                        > > today she is very nauseous so the Buprenex and Nutrical will not stay down.
                        > > I don’t want her to suffer â€" esp now that the pain meds may not be
                        > > staying in her long enough to work. But if anyone has any useful advice, I
                        > > would rather hear it before we make her final decision today in a few hours.
                        > > >
                        > > >Thanks so much,
                        > > >
                        > > >Kendra
                        > > >
                        > > >__.
                        > > >
                        > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Lynn
                        Kendra, Here is an article on Saddle Thrombosis.The prognosis may be better than your vet said according to this. My cat didn t have any necrosis and was
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 8, 2012
                          Kendra,

                          Here is an article on Saddle Thrombosis.The prognosis may be better than your vet said according to this.
                          My cat didn't have any necrosis and was paralyzed on and off for several weeks.

                          Best of luck to you. A cardiologist  might be able to help through the ER, though I never get good care there.
                           http://www.marvistavet.com/html/feline_aortic_thromboembolism.html

                          Lynn

















                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Lynn
                          I reading this jogged my memory. When my cat had CHF, HCM and then saddle thrombosis, he was on daily aspirin as part of his medication.  I wonder if this
                          Message 12 of 14 , Dec 8, 2012
                            I reading this jogged my memory. When my cat had CHF, HCM and then saddle thrombosis, he was on daily aspirin as part of his medication.  I wonder if this would help? He regained use of his legs and is still here at 19 years old 8 years after this! 

                            Praying for a miracle for Indy.

                            Lynn

                            --- On Sat, 12/8/12, acrocat@... <acrocat@...> wrote:

                            From: acrocat@... <acrocat@...>
                            Subject: Re: [FH] Saddle Thrombus - URGENT NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
                            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:10 PM
















                             









                            Re: the use of heparin etc.



                            Just to clarify, heparin does not dissolve the clot. Its use (usually in a specific form called fractionated or low molecular weight heparin) in clot cats is meant to keep the clot from getting bigger, and to help prevent other clots from forming. Whether it works for this purpose is not definitively known.



                            The only clot-busting agent used in these cases would be streptokinase. It is really almost never used in cats because it is expensive (too expensive to keep in stock) and quite high-risk. It breaks up clots indiscriminately (we make 'appropriate' clots all the time) and there is a high risk of reperfusion injury--what Kendra referred to in the below snippet. Unless one is there to witness the clot event and immediately transport the cat to the vet, there is a risk of fatal reperfusion injury if streptokinase is used. The treatment for saddle thrombus is mainly supportive -- pain meds, use of LMW heparin to help stave off further clot formation, treatment of CHF if it occurs at the same time, and monitoring for reperfusion injury. The body can break the clot down, and if it happens soon enough after the clot is formed, the leg(s) can be saved. However, a cat who throws one clot is extremely likely to have another, so the reprieve may be short-lived.



                            Adriann






















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