Fw: [FH] ARF and Heart Issues
- I believe this was meant for the group, not just me :) Lisa, in particular.
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: lorkatz2004 <cbower@...>
To: Toby Jones <tobythelegend@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [FH] ARF and Heart Issues
150cc is a lot of fluids...............on our CRF group, 100cc was the max for long term with the group recommending use less if you can get by doing that.
For Dumbledore, 100CC per day was too much for him and causing his heart also to over work. I think if I continued he would have gone into heart failure as his heart was working way too hard to get rid of the fluids..........and he was not an old cat but was 7-8 years old like smudge.
How does the skin feel?? He is hydrated well enough or is he marginal and dehydrated? I have found that a high level of creatine can be backed down by giving SQ fluids...........Dumbledore was over 5.5 and went back down for a while to 3.0 but........this is an ever changing thing.
For Smudge to have a creatine of 3, she is in the mid-range with not a lot of problems showing. Dumbledore was 3 for 2 years and then went past 5 and end stage renal failure. Some cases progress quickly, others not............when you hit 4 creatine level, you will start to see them get sick and throw up and not wanting to eat as the toxin levels are building up. 5 is considered end stage and when we hit that, my world came to a crashing halt as I had to face losing my beloved cat and I couldn't stop it.
A grade 3 heart murmur of concern..........use the least amount of fluids that you can as our saying is "without the heart pumping you have no need to give fluids"..............Treat the heart first.......
Good luck - one of the hardest combination of problems/complications is the cats that have both kidney and heart problems. It is a balancing act.
Try treating the heart with supplements of nattokinase and coenzyme, along with meds your heart doc gives.
--- In email@example.com, Toby Jones <tobythelegend@...> wrote:
> Fluids can put a cat into CHF, but as far as I'm aware, fluids don't/can't cause heart murmurs, if that's the "issues" that you're referring to.Â Balancing kidney and heart disease is a nightmare, at best.Â Has Smudge been in CHF?
> From: Lisa <lisarosmarin@...>
> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 5:45 AM
> Subject: [FH] ARF and Heart Issues
> My eight year old cat Smudge was in acute renal failure two years ago. Since then she has been on Sub Q at 150 CC six times a week. She is 9.2 LB. She is also on aluminum hydroxide and aransep for her anemia. Is the daily sub Q fluids the cause of her heart condition? If so can I reduce the amount of fluids that I give her? Her BUN is 54 and her creatinine is 3.0. They use to be really high two years ago.
> She is going to be put on benazepril for her heart. So far all I was told is that she has a grade 3 heart mur mur. I think we will go with an ecko cardiogram to see how severe it may be. How do you balance kidney disease and heart issues when they need fluids?
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