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RE: [FH] plan for an emergency...

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  • Laurie Stead
    Hi Judi, Interesting to read about using butorphenol....   You wrote: It s for pain and relaxes them also (the Mexican vet said it was like morphine.) and
    Message 1 of 22 , May 2, 2012
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      Hi Judi,

      Interesting to read about using butorphenol....   You wrote: "It's for pain and relaxes them also (the Mexican vet said it
      was like morphine.)" and "put him to sleep".  I recently posted to the group that Boo's cardiologist wants me to give this to her before her next appt to help relax her as she gets very stressed.  The cardiologist used the phrase "to take the edge off" but It sounds much stronger by your description.  Someone in the group had replied that they would be surprised if it did anything of the sort.   Now I am confused by what to expect.  Do you remember the dosage you gave Max?

      Thanks!
      Laurie




      --- On Wed, 5/2/12, Judi Levens <casaobelisco@...> wrote:

      From: Judi Levens <casaobelisco@...>
      Subject: RE: [FH] plan for an emergency...
      To: joeychloe@..., feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, May 2, 2012, 9:59 AM


      yes, because we were in Mexico for 6 months a year with virtually no vet access, I asked my vet for and he perscribed butorphenol and extra lasix.  Both things came in handy...I used the butorphenol twice, when Max had a (minor) clot) and when he was passing.  It's for pain and relaxes them also (the Mexican vet said it was like morphine.)  I used the extra lasix when he threw the clot.  When he threw the clot he was Ok the following morning, and I credit both of these meds for that somewhat, because he got very nervous when he realized something was wrong (probably remembering his 48 hours in emergency with oxygen) and the butorphenol put him to sleep while the lasix and aspirin and natto worked and his body recovered.  I would ask for these two things and instructions on how to use.  Good luck...Judi and Angel Max




      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      From: joeychloe@...
      Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 03:46:46 +0000
      Subject: [FH] plan for an emergency...




















       


         
           
           
            does anyone know the best plan for an emergency for a cat with hcm if they need to go to the emergency hospital and it is 15 minutes away?  the only one i have come up with is to buy an oxygen mask and request medication from his cardiologist such as lasix (or something more effective for emergencies) to buy me some time to get to the hospital...all suggestions are so welcome :)





         
           

         
         






                                  

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    • Kathleen King
      Here are a couple of links I have found all talking about giving Nitroglycerin to cats in a CHF emergency:  
      Message 2 of 22 , May 2, 2012
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        Here are a couple of links I have found all talking about giving Nitroglycerin to cats in a CHF emergency:
         
        http://maxshouse.com/Cardiology/myocardial_diseases_of_the_cat.htm
        http://zimmer-foundation.org/sch/ajd.html
         
        There appears to be a lot of mention of it's use in cases of acute pulmonary edema, given with lasix when a cat is hospitalized.  There were a couple of PDF's about it too, but I could not always determine how recent articles were written.


        ________________________________
        From: Westgold <westgold@...>
        To: Kathleen King <katn3kits@...>; feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 2:41 PM
        Subject: Re: [FH] plan for an emergency...


        
        Wow, this sounds like something we all could have on hand.  Especially for those whose cats have had fluid on the lungs previously.  I hope you have a chance to do a little research on this and its exact uses.  Has anyone else been given nitroglycerin for their cats?   
        ----- Original Message -----
        >From: Kathleen King
        >To: Westgold ; feline-heart
        >Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 1:51 PM
        >Subject: Re: [FH] plan for an emergency...
        >
        >
        >I don't have my instruction sheet any longer since Danny died, but I was actually given that before he had CHF.  I was to use it if he had a sudden change in cardiac symptoms.  I believe it was a way to buy time since I live in the mountains and it is 45 minute to an hour to the emergency vet.  Washington State University mentions it as a possible medication for pets with heart disease, but I have not researched it and I did not used it for Danny. 
        >It does dialate the blood vessels and in an emergency can help with both pulmonary edema and pulmonary effusion.


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      • acrocat@rocketmail.com
        Re: nitroprusside ... Some cardiologists don t use it anymore in animals because they think it does not absorb transdermally. If it does absorb transdermally,
        Message 3 of 22 , May 2, 2012
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          Re: nitroprusside

          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Westgold" <westgold@...> wrote:
          > Wow, this sounds like something we all could have on hand. Especially for those whose cats have had fluid on the lungs previously. I hope you have a chance to do a little research on this and its exact uses. Has anyone else been given nitroglycerin for their cats?

          Some cardiologists don't use it anymore in animals because they think it does not absorb transdermally. If it does absorb transdermally, it can cause a frightening drop in blood pressure -- animals on IV nitroprusside have their BP monitored constantly because its effect on BP can be so strong.

          Personally, if my cat was in bad enough shape that I thought he needed nitro before we got to the ER, he'd be in bad enough shape that I'd be too nervous about his BP to try it. Cats and dogs in a CHF crisis can be hypotensive and this is life-threatening. I think getting to the ER is the important thing. If you live more than 30 min away, it's good to have a plan, but apart from those cases, just getting there as fast as you can while still being safe is the most important thing.
        • acrocat@rocketmail.com
          ... It was I who said that I d be surprised if butorphanol did anything. It is not like morphine -- it is a weak pain medication. Back in the olden days (5-10
          Message 4 of 22 , May 2, 2012
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            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Stead <kittykatwhiskas@...> wrote:
            > Interesting to read about using butorphenol....   You wrote: "It's for pain and relaxes them also (the Mexican vet said it
            > was like morphine.)"

            It was I who said that I'd be surprised if butorphanol did anything. It is not like morphine -- it is a weak pain medication. Back in the olden days (5-10 years ago), butorphanol was widely used as a pain medication. Some older-school vets still use it. It is not nearly as effective as other opioids, so everyone needs to make sure their dog or cat is getting more than butorphanol if they are having surgery or in pain for another reason.

            Among veterinary anesthesiologists, butorphanol is most used for its sedative effects when used in combination with other medications. Among other vet specialists, it is often used as a cough medication in dogs with chronic cough.

            If you are concerned, Laurie, can you just give the butorphanol one day at home and see? Do you have enough for two doses?
          • Main Moulu
            Message 5 of 22 , May 3, 2012
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              ------------------------------
              On Wed, May 2, 2012 8:51 PM AST (Arabian) Kathleen King wrote:

              >I don't have my instruction sheet any longer since Danny died, but I was actually given that before he had CHF.  I was to use it if he had a sudden change in cardiac symptoms.  I believe it was a way to buy time since I live in the mountains and it is 45 minute to an hour to the emergency vet.  Washington State University mentions it as a possible medication for pets with heart disease, but I have not researched it and I did not used it for Danny. 
              >It does dialate the blood vessels and in an emergency can help with both pulmonary edema and pulmonary effusion.



              >From: Westgold <westgold@...>
              >To: Kathleen King <katn3kits@...>; feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
              >Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 12:16 AM
              >Subject: Re: [FH] plan for an emergency...
              >
              >

              >Hi -- I never heard of giving a kitty nitroglycerin -- under what circumstances did he say you would use it?
              >----- Original Message -----
              >From: Kathleen King
              >To: joeychloe ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              >Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 11:59 PM
              >Subject: Re: [FH] plan for an emergency...
              >
              >With Danny, my vet helped me develop an emergency plan and gave me some emergency meds including nitroglycerin paste and injectable lasix. When he was on Enalapril I was also suppose to give an extra dose of that if there was ever an emergency or if he even started acting like he was having problems. I live even further from the vet and the emergency hospital so that was always a fear of mine.
              >
              >I didn't know you could get oxygen without a doctor's order.
              >
              >________________________________
              >From: joeychloe <joeychloe@...>
              >To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              >Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 9:46 PM
              >Subject: [FH] plan for an emergency...
              >
              >does anyone know the best plan for an emergency for a cat with hcm if they need to go to the emergency hospital and it is 15 minutes away? the only one i have come up with is to buy an oxygen mask and request medication from his cardiologist such as lasix (or something more effective for emergencies) to buy me some time to get to the hospital...all suggestions are so welcome :)
              >
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            • elfinmyst@aol.com
              Hi Melinda That s really good news and great for Jazzie. Give her a big hug for me and I think it s good she keeps on the atenolol. Cats caught early seem to
              Message 6 of 22 , May 3, 2012
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                Hi Melinda

                That's really good news and great for Jazzie. Give her a big hug for me and
                I think it's good she keeps on the atenolol. Cats caught early seem to do
                well on that.

                Lyn:)

                _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Judi Levens
                Hi: I wonder if maybe I have the name wrong...it s been over a year since Max passed and maybe I am forgetting, but I thought that was the name. What I had
                Message 7 of 22 , May 3, 2012
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                  Hi: I wonder if maybe I have the name wrong...it's been over a year since Max passed and maybe I am forgetting, but I thought that was the name. What I had came in glass ampules with a needle to administer. The vet in Mexico said that he couldn't even perscribe that drug because it was like Morphine and he didn't have authority to use it. Can you think of something else which sounds similar and would come in that packaging? I had 3 ampules in a package. I know that it knocked Max out...hope I'm not leading you wrong...Judi and Angel Max and Tucker



                  To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  From: acrocat@...
                  Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 05:38:19 +0000
                  Subject: Re: [FH] plan for an emergency...






























                  --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Stead <kittykatwhiskas@...> wrote:

                  > Interesting to read about using butorphenol.... You wrote: "It's for pain and relaxes them also (the Mexican vet said it

                  > was like morphine.)"



                  It was I who said that I'd be surprised if butorphanol did anything. It is not like morphine -- it is a weak pain medication. Back in the olden days (5-10 years ago), butorphanol was widely used as a pain medication. Some older-school vets still use it. It is not nearly as effective as other opioids, so everyone needs to make sure their dog or cat is getting more than butorphanol if they are having surgery or in pain for another reason.



                  Among veterinary anesthesiologists, butorphanol is most used for its sedative effects when used in combination with other medications. Among other vet specialists, it is often used as a cough medication in dogs with chronic cough.



                  If you are concerned, Laurie, can you just give the butorphanol one day at home and see? Do you have enough for two doses?


















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Kathleen King
                  As I said before - I beleive part of the reason I was given this is because I live so far away from the emergency vet.  The other things is, we knew Danny s
                  Message 8 of 22 , May 3, 2012
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                    As I said before - I beleive part of the reason I was given this is because I live so far away from the emergency vet.  The other things is, we knew Danny's BP went up during emergencies. 
                     
                    I think it is really important to know your cat.  I considered the Nitro a life or death situation medication.  I did not use it because I was not in that situation. On the other hand, my brother-in-law found his cat collasped with very labored breathing and cyanotic gums and pads.  I think I would have used it if Danny had been like that.
                     

                    ________________________________
                    From: "acrocat@..." <acrocat@...>
                    To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:30 PM
                    Subject: Re: [FH] plan for an emergency...


                     
                    Re: nitroprusside

                    --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Westgold" <westgold@...> wrote:
                    > Wow, this sounds like something we all could have on hand. Especially for those whose cats have had fluid on the lungs previously. I hope you have a chance to do a little research on this and its exact uses. Has anyone else been given nitroglycerin for their cats?

                    Some cardiologists don't use it anymore in animals because they think it does not absorb transdermally. If it does absorb transdermally, it can cause a frightening drop in blood pressure -- animals on IV nitroprusside have their BP monitored constantly because its effect on BP can be so strong.

                    Personally, if my cat was in bad enough shape that I thought he needed nitro before we got to the ER, he'd be in bad enough shape that I'd be too nervous about his BP to try it. Cats and dogs in a CHF crisis can be hypotensive and this is life-threatening. I think getting to the ER is the important thing. If you live more than 30 min away, it's good to have a plan, but apart from those cases, just getting there as fast as you can while still being safe is the most important thing.




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jim Sinclair
                    ... My Buttercup was like that. She would invariably pant, drool, and vomit when taken anywhere in the vehicle. Vets always thought she was acutely ill even
                    Message 9 of 22 , May 3, 2012
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                      On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:22 AM, Joanne Haeussinger <chmiss01@...> wrote:

                      > I even put Feliway in her carrier. Do any of you have cats that get super nervous when going to the vet, and if so, how do you stop them from having such a reaction?

                      My Buttercup was like that. She would invariably pant, drool, and
                      vomit when taken anywhere in the vehicle. Vets always thought she was
                      acutely ill even when I just took her for routine checkups and
                      vaccinations.

                      I eventually learned to spray Feliway on a pad and put it into her
                      carrier at least half an hour before I put the cat into the carrier
                      and took her into the vehicle. That 30-60 minutes seemed to make a
                      huge difference in the effectiveness of the Feliway, so she was
                      finally able to travel without panic and puking.

                      Jim Sinclair  jisincla@...
                      www.jimsinclair.org
                      http://moosepuppy.petfinder.com
                    • Westgold
                      Great advice. My vet also told me that I could give Tigger a double dose of the atenolol before any really stressful event. It is not a sedative, but helps
                      Message 10 of 22 , May 3, 2012
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                        Great advice. My vet also told me that I could give Tigger a double dose of the atenolol before any really stressful event. It is not a sedative, but helps with the heart rhythm. But I wouldn't do this unless my vet approved -- so check with yours ahead of time.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Jim Sinclair
                        To: Joanne Haeussinger
                        Cc: joeychloe ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 2:03 PM
                        Subject: Re: [FH] plan for an emergency...



                        On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:22 AM, Joanne Haeussinger <chmiss01@...> wrote:

                        > I even put Feliway in her carrier. Do any of you have cats that get super nervous when going to the vet, and if so, how do you stop them from having such a reaction?

                        My Buttercup was like that. She would invariably pant, drool, and
                        vomit when taken anywhere in the vehicle. Vets always thought she was
                        acutely ill even when I just took her for routine checkups and
                        vaccinations.

                        I eventually learned to spray Feliway on a pad and put it into her
                        carrier at least half an hour before I put the cat into the carrier
                        and took her into the vehicle. That 30-60 minutes seemed to make a
                        huge difference in the effectiveness of the Feliway, so she was
                        finally able to travel without panic and puking.

                        Jim Sinclair jisincla@...
                        www.jimsinclair.org
                        http://moosepuppy.petfinder.com




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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