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Natto / Plavix / Fragmin questions

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  • lilahsmom94
    Hi All, My name is Kristin and my cat Lilah has had stable kidney disease for 3 yrs. Mild HCM was dx d about 1.5 yrs ago and about a month ago at echo recheck
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 12, 2012
      Hi All,
      My name is Kristin and my cat Lilah has had stable kidney disease for 3 yrs. Mild HCM was dx'd about 1.5 yrs ago and about a month ago at echo recheck it had progressed and now left atrium is enlarged. She started on vetmedin a few weeks ago and she seems to be doing well on it (increased energy/appetite) although it seems to be causing loose stools (?). Has anyone else noticed this? Anyway, I hope someone can help me figure out how to proceed to try and prevent stroke. Here are my questions:

      She had a lot of blood in her urine at the end of Feb. (more than 50 RBC). Additional testing and U/S ruled out stones, infection, etc so the consensus is it's probably idiopathic cystitis which apparently comes and goes and likely so will blood in urine. Blood in urine is a side effect of plavis and heparin. Does anyone know if it would also be w/Nattokinase? Or should it be less likely b/c it works differently?

      If she starts plavix, she would need a reduced dose b/c of her kidneys. Her dose would be .5ml/day of compounded liquid w/a strength of 18.75 mg/ml. I think they said that's 1/2 the normal dose. I'm wondering how effective that would be. Any opinions?

      Does anyone get Fragmin from Canada? Or any other experience w/getting other drugs from Canada?

      Does Nattokinase come in tablet form or only capsules or softgels? I can't pill her so I hide pills in soft treats so they have to be small. Can anyone tell me how small the 36mg softgels are? Do people open the capsules to divide into smaller doses or does that reduce effectiveness?

      Any input would be greatly appreciated!

      Thank you!
      Kristin & Lilah
    • elfinmyst@aol.com
      Hi Kristin Vetmedin seems an excellent drug and has worked well for my cats. I haven t noticed any side effects at all. Nattokinase shouldn t cause blood in
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 12, 2012
        Hi Kristin

        Vetmedin seems an excellent drug and has worked well for my cats. I haven't
        noticed any side effects at all.

        Nattokinase shouldn't cause blood in urine as it works by dissolving clots,
        not thinning the blood. Blood in urine is usually cystitis and a couple of
        my cats get that occasionally, no matter what pills they are on. My
        pitutitary dwarf , Tansy, gets blood in urine once or twice a year and takes no
        pills at all.

        I haven't heard of plavix affecting kidneys. My Trixi is on that drug at
        normal strength and her kidneys seem fine and aren't getting worse. If she is
        at risk of a clot then it is important she gets something for it. You
        can't take plavix and nattokinase together because in humans it increases the
        risk of a cerebral bleed apparently.

        Nattokinase made by Doctor's Best is what I use for my cats, and they are
        small capsules and are about £12 for 90. Each pill has 2000 FU.. which are
        fibrinolytic units and that seems to have no side effects or problems in my
        cats at all.

        Lyn


        _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • MAUREEN FOGG
        Kristen, My Yuki used to get cystitis because of the dehydration from lasix.  Dasuquin worked wonders.  Once she was on it she never got another bout of
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 12, 2012
          Kristen, My Yuki used to get cystitis because of the dehydration from lasix. 
          Dasuquin worked wonders.  Once she was on it she never got another bout of
          cystitis. I gave her one pill each morning.  I think I had to start her out with
          one in the morning and one in the evening.  I got them from my vet. They provide
          a layer of mucus in kittys bladder to keep it from getting infected.
          Best,
          Maureen and Angel Yuki




          ________________________________
          From: lilahsmom94 <ktrelegan@...>
          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thu, April 12, 2012 3:58:53 AM
          Subject: [FH] Natto / Plavix / Fragmin questions

           
          Hi All,
          My name is Kristin and my cat Lilah has had stable kidney disease for 3 yrs.
          Mild HCM was dx'd about 1.5 yrs ago and about a month ago at echo recheck it had
          progressed and now left atrium is enlarged. She started on vetmedin a few weeks
          ago and she seems to be doing well on it (increased energy/appetite) although it
          seems to be causing loose stools (?). Has anyone else noticed this? Anyway, I
          hope someone can help me figure out how to proceed to try and prevent stroke.
          Here are my questions:

          She had a lot of blood in her urine at the end of Feb. (more than 50 RBC).
          Additional testing and U/S ruled out stones, infection, etc so the consensus is
          it's probably idiopathic cystitis which apparently comes and goes and likely so
          will blood in urine. Blood in urine is a side effect of plavis and heparin. Does
          anyone know if it would also be w/Nattokinase? Or should it be less likely b/c
          it works differently?

          If she starts plavix, she would need a reduced dose b/c of her kidneys. Her dose
          would be .5ml/day of compounded liquid w/a strength of 18.75 mg/ml. I think they
          said that's 1/2 the normal dose. I'm wondering how effective that would be. Any
          opinions?

          Does anyone get Fragmin from Canada? Or any other experience w/getting other
          drugs from Canada?

          Does Nattokinase come in tablet form or only capsules or softgels? I can't pill
          her so I hide pills in soft treats so they have to be small. Can anyone tell me
          how small the 36mg softgels are? Do people open the capsules to divide into
          smaller doses or does that reduce effectiveness?

          Any input would be greatly appreciated!

          Thank you!
          Kristin & Lilah




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • MAUREEN FOGG
          Kristin, Hi - Im not sure if  glucosamine/chondroitin are as good but they are ingredients in the dasuquin so I would try those until you run out and in the
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 13, 2012
            Kristin,
            Hi - Im not sure if  glucosamine/chondroitin are as good but they are
            ingredients in the dasuquin so I would try those until you run out and in the
            mean time get the dasuquin.  With Yuki it definately worked, as she had 3 bouts
            of cystitis in a row - went on antibiotics each time.  Then when my vet told me
            of dasuquin i was desperate because I didnt want her on antibiotic all the time
            - (they made her appetite go way down). So I got her on those pills with no
            problems.  Then at one point I ran out of the pills for a couple of weeks and
            she got another infection - so I got her right back on them after we cleared it
            up with antibiotics and I swore she would always have the pills with no
            interruptions (she suffered so with the  infections – constantly straining and
            bleeding). 

            Best wishes,
            Maureen and Angel Yuki



            ________________________________
            From: lilahsmom94 <ktrelegan@...>
            To: MAUREEN FOGG <maureen.fogg@...>
            Sent: Fri, April 13, 2012 2:27:01 AM
            Subject: Re: Natto / Plavix / Fragmin questions

            Thanks so much Maureen for the Dasuquin info.  I remember that I read
            glucosamine/chondroitin can help protect the bladder from infection and
            irritation.  When I asked the vet she said no studies have actually shown that
            so I sort of put it on the back burner although I did start giving her treats
            w/glucosamine/chondroitin in them.  Do you happen to know if cosequin should be
            as good?  I have some of that already so I was just wondering...
            Thanks again,
            Kristin

            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, MAUREEN FOGG <maureen.fogg@...> wrote:
            >
            > Kristen, My Yuki used to get cystitis because of the dehydration from lasix. 
            > Dasuquin worked wonders.  Once she was on it she never got another bout of
            > cystitis. I gave her one pill each morning.  I think I had to start her out
            >with
            > one in the morning and one in the evening.  I got them from my vet. They
            >provide
            > a layer of mucus in kittys bladder to keep it from getting infected.
            > Best,
            > Maureen and Angel Yuki
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: lilahsmom94 <ktrelegan@...>
            > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thu, April 12, 2012 3:58:53 AM
            > Subject: [FH] Natto / Plavix / Fragmin questions
            >
            >  
            > Hi All,
            > My name is Kristin and my cat Lilah has had stable kidney disease for 3 yrs.
            > Mild HCM was dx'd about 1.5 yrs ago and about a month ago at echo recheck it
            >had
            > progressed and now left atrium is enlarged. She started on vetmedin a few
            weeks
            > ago and she seems to be doing well on it (increased energy/appetite) although
            >it
            > seems to be causing loose stools (?). Has anyone else noticed this? Anyway, I
            > hope someone can help me figure out how to proceed to try and prevent stroke.
            > Here are my questions:
            >
            > She had a lot of blood in her urine at the end of Feb. (more than 50 RBC).
            > Additional testing and U/S ruled out stones, infection, etc so the consensus
            is
            > it's probably idiopathic cystitis which apparently comes and goes and likely
            so
            > will blood in urine. Blood in urine is a side effect of plavis and heparin.
            >Does
            > anyone know if it would also be w/Nattokinase? Or should it be less likely b/c
            > it works differently?
            >
            > If she starts plavix, she would need a reduced dose b/c of her kidneys. Her
            >dose
            > would be .5ml/day of compounded liquid w/a strength of 18.75 mg/ml. I think
            >they
            > said that's 1/2 the normal dose. I'm wondering how effective that would be.
            Any
            > opinions?
            >
            > Does anyone get Fragmin from Canada? Or any other experience w/getting other
            > drugs from Canada?
            >
            > Does Nattokinase come in tablet form or only capsules or softgels? I can't
            pill
            > her so I hide pills in soft treats so they have to be small. Can anyone tell
            me
            > how small the 36mg softgels are? Do people open the capsules to divide into
            > smaller doses or does that reduce effectiveness?
            >
            > Any input would be greatly appreciated!
            >
            > Thank you!
            > Kristin & Lilah
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Leo Wempu
            Hi, Infection and inflammation are two separate things, although an infection can of course cause inflammation. But so can other things. Crystals can for
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 13, 2012
              Hi,

              Infection and inflammation are two separate things, although an infection can of course cause inflammation. But so can other things. Crystals can for example irritate the bladder walls. Or the cause might not be found and then it would be called idiopathic (which means we don't know why :-)). Antibiotics are useless, unless there really is a bacterial infection.


              I have a kitty that has struggled with idiopathic cystitis. What worked best for us was very wet food (canned with water added) + avoiding stress (which can be hard in a multicat household). I tried glucosamine & chondroitin at one point and it didn't make any difference. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try it. There's no evidence that glucosamine would actually work:

              http://jfm.sagepub.com/content/6/4/219.short

              But who knows, it might work for some. Personally, I wouldn't place too much hope in it. The theory is that it would help to strenghten the bladder walls but it didn't do anything for us.


              It's my understanding that, unlike Cosequin, Dasuquin has avocado soybean unsaponifiables in addition to glucosamine & chondroitin. These supplements were created for arthritis and I'm not sure what effect if any ASU would have on cystitis.


              Henna



              ________________________________
              From: MAUREEN FOGG <maureen.fogg@...>
              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 3:56 PM
              Subject: [FH] Re: Natto / Plavix / Fragmin questions


               
              Kristin,
              Hi - Im not sure if  glucosamine/chondroitin are as good but they are
              ingredients in the dasuquin so I would try those until you run out and in the
              mean time get the dasuquin.  With Yuki it definately worked, as she had 3 bouts
              of cystitis in a row - went on antibiotics each time.  Then when my vet told me
              of dasuquin i was desperate because I didnt want her on antibiotic all the time
              - (they made her appetite go way down). So I got her on those pills with no
              problems.  Then at one point I ran out of the pills for a couple of weeks and
              she got another infection - so I got her right back on them after we cleared it
              up with antibiotics and I swore she would always have the pills with no
              interruptions (she suffered so with the  infections – constantly straining and
              bleeding). 

              Best wishes,
              Maureen and Angel Yuki







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • s.theye
              Hi Kristin, My cat, Jack, is on Plavix. He takes 1/4 of a 75mg. tablet once a day. So that is 18.75mg. as prescribed by his cardiologist. He had a wound on
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 15, 2012
                Hi Kristin,

                My cat, Jack, is on Plavix. He takes 1/4 of a 75mg. tablet once a day.
                So that is 18.75mg. as prescribed by his cardiologist. He had a wound on
                his foot pad that wouldn't completely heal a few months ago and the dr.
                said that we would maybe have to go to a lower plavix dose for awhile, by compounding it,
                so that it could heal, but it finally healed so we never had too. She did say that the 18.75mg. dose is slightly higher than necessary but that it is done for convenience sake. I am not sure what the best dose is, she didn't say.

                In summer 2009 Jack had a urinary blockage, and I switched him to grain-free
                canned food with added water. He has not had another one since, and when
                his urine is checked it is fine. I think the previous advice about feeding just the canned food with a bit of water added is great advice.

                I am also on a FLUTD yahoo group and they can be very helpful. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FLUTD/ Try a grain-free with
                poultry, not fish.

                I didn't think Plavix would cause blood in urine, but I guess if there was an irritated
                bladder lining Plavix could make it bleed worse?

                I did have some trouble finding the right food for both his heart and FLUTD. Some
                grain-free canned can be very high in fat, and the vet diet, canned Urinary SO was too
                high in salt....right now we are using Weruva 'Paw lickin' Chicken' It is very low in
                fat and salt....it is pretty watery but I still add just a bit of water.

                Jack actually has somewhat loose/soft stools recently, and I am not sure what is causing them, he loves eating, so I might be overfeeding him, but am actually going to bring in a sample to his vet just in case.

                Shelley


                --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Leo Wempu <leowempu@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi,
                >
                > Infection and inflammation are two separate things, although an infection can of course cause inflammation. But so can other things. Crystals can for example irritate the bladder walls. Or the cause might not be found and then it would be called idiopathic (which means we don't know why :-)). Antibiotics are useless, unless there really is a bacterial infection.
                >
                >
                > I have a kitty that has struggled with idiopathic cystitis. What worked best for us was very wet food (canned with water added) + avoiding stress (which can be hard in a multicat household). I tried glucosamine & chondroitin at one point and it didn't make any difference. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try it. There's no evidence that glucosamine would actually work:
                >
                > http://jfm.sagepub.com/content/6/4/219.short
                >
                > But who knows, it might work for some. Personally, I wouldn't place too much hope in it. The theory is that it would help to strenghten the bladder walls but it didn't do anything for us.
                >
                >
                > It's my understanding that, unlike Cosequin, Dasuquin has avocado soybean unsaponifiables in addition to glucosamine & chondroitin. These supplements were created for arthritis and I'm not sure what effect if any ASU would have on cystitis.
                >
                >
                > Henna
                >
                >
                >
                >
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