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Re: [FH] Re: Great news for Mystro; many things ruled out by new vet!! No CHF or Asthma!

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  • Toby Jones
    The main issue with dry foods isn t so much the lack of protein and high carb content, as there are many dry foods that have high protein counts, comparable of
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 3 2:02 PM
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      The main issue with dry foods isn't so much the lack of protein and high carb content, as there are many dry foods that have high protein counts, comparable of wet foods.  The issue is the lack of moisture, which usually runs ~8% in dry food versus ~78% in wet food.

      Ryan

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Toby Jones
      Prescribing a diet for a cat without actually monitoring their weight gain/loss is like you recommending me a diet over the internet, without knowing anything
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 3 2:10 PM
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        Prescribing a diet for a cat without actually monitoring their weight gain/loss is like you recommending me a diet over the internet, without knowing anything about me.  I weigh each of my cats' meals, every meal, and I weigh each of them daily and log their weight.  Kinda weird, but it gives me something to do.  My 6 pound 10 ounce female Singapura needs approximately two ounces of wet food per day, twice a day (approx 160 cals total).  My 8 pound 14 ounce female Bengal needs 2.2 ounces of wet food twice per day; she gains weight with 2.5 ounces, and loses with 2.0 ounces.  My 7 pound 15 ounce Bengal kitten boy eats around 7+ ounces per day and is solid muscle.

        I don't really know what my point is other than if you want to help your kitty safely lose weight, you need to have a baby scale and a food scale and monitor their weight.  And don't feed a junky wet food.  And shoot for ~3% loss of body weight per month.  Anything more can put your cat at risk of hepatic lipidosis.

        Ryan



        ________________________________
        From: Jackie <jboynton@...>
        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 9:52 AM
        Subject: [FH] Great news for Mystro; many things ruled out by new vet!! No CHF or Asthma!


         
        I finally took mystro to a third vet, who gave me the right diagnosis. She does NOT have CHF, She does Not have respiratory disease. She is way TOO fat, despite diet. She is NOT diabetic!! He felt the litter was causing both of us to cough, lol.

        So, since the diets prescribed by former vets have always been "no more than 2/3 cup of dry food a day, anything's fine." My new and permanent vet is checking thyroid to see if that might causing her to continue gaining weight, despite special diet last vet gave me.

        Great news all around, thyroid test results tomorrow. I now have enough enalapril and furosemide to treat a cat with real heart disease for a year. But she doesn't need them, so I don't even care that they cost a fortune. Actually, I am very close to needing both of them if my heart doesn't get better, and my BP continues to rise.

        For the first time in many months, I now am able to think straight, and my panic is subsiding. I knew the cat didn't need those pills, she wasn't having the symptoms that your FH or FA kittys do. Mystro and I are blessed. I hope I can stll be a part of this group, becase she might just get CHF. And I contiue to learn about many other things here.

        Peace to all, love jackie and fat mystro. No more pilling, yay!!!! Unless the thyroid tests are funky. But no CHF, such a miracle




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Westgold
        Well it is the high carbs causing the weight gain -- but you re right on the other point. My vet feels that dry food sucks the fluids out of the cat -- he
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 3 2:32 PM
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          Well it is the high carbs causing the weight gain -- but you're right on the other point. My vet feels that dry food sucks the fluids out of the cat -- he says that a cat can never possibly drink enough water to replace all the fluids that are sucked up by the dry foods as they pass through the body. This of course puts extra strain on the kidneys.

          I am also very active on the felinediabetes group where I have helped many kitties achieve what I did with my cat after he was diabetic on insulin for 4 years -- with an all-canned diet we've been able to get our cats off insulin. Or at least greatly reduce the amount of insulin needed, which reduces complications. A few years ago when Evo came out with that new dry food that was supposed to be higher protein, a lot of people tried it. They were happy to be able to feed their kitties dry again, etc. However, within just a couple weeks they had to stop feeding Evo and go back to the canned. Several kitties who were totally off insulin started needing it again after just a couple weeks on the evo -- and some who were on a reduced amount of insulin on canned had to up the insulin when they went on Evo. So although Evo "might" be the highest-protein dry food, it is still not enough for cats, who are obligate carnivores, that means they should eat only meat.

          I believe that our heart kitties deserve the best possible food, to keep their strength up -- and that is what they were created to eat -- MEAT. No grains, no vegetables, no fruit, no corn, no gluten, etc. MEAT.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Toby Jones
          To: Westgold ; elfinmyst@... ; feline-heart
          Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 5:02 PM
          Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Great news for Mystro; many things ruled out by new vet!! No CHF or Asthma!


          The main issue with dry foods isn't so much the lack of protein and high carb content, as there are many dry foods that have high protein counts, comparable of wet foods. The issue is the lack of moisture, which usually runs ~8% in dry food versus ~78% in wet food.

          Ryan




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Leo Wempu
          That s good news! I see you ve received lots of advice on how to feed Mystro. Here s a little guide to add to the mix :-)
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 3 4:13 PM
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            That's good news!

            I see you've received lots of advice on how to feed Mystro. Here's a little guide to add to the mix :-)

            http://dels-old.nas.edu/dels/rpt_briefs/cat_nutrition_final.pdf

            You'll want her to get everything she needs, but a little less calories each day, so she'll loose weight slowly and safely. I actually think it might be easier with canned food. The amount of dry per day is quite restricted and she might not be a happy cat. There's quite nothing like a kitty on a diet begging for more food to make one feel like a "criminal".


            Henna & Angel Leo



            ________________________________
            From: Jackie <jboynton@...>
            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 7:52 PM
            Subject: [FH] Great news for Mystro; many things ruled out by new vet!! No CHF or Asthma!


             
            I finally took mystro to a third vet, who gave me the right diagnosis. She does NOT have CHF, She does Not have respiratory disease. She is way TOO fat, despite diet. She is NOT diabetic!! He felt the litter was causing both of us to cough, lol.

            So, since the diets prescribed by former vets have always been "no more than 2/3 cup of dry food a day, anything's fine." My new and permanent vet is checking thyroid to see if that might causing her to continue gaining weight, despite special diet last vet gave me.

            Great news all around, thyroid test results tomorrow. I now have enough enalapril and furosemide to treat a cat with real heart disease for a year. But she doesn't need them, so I don't even care that they cost a fortune. Actually, I am very close to needing both of them if my heart doesn't get better, and my BP continues to rise.

            For the first time in many months, I now am able to think straight, and my panic is subsiding. I knew the cat didn't need those pills, she wasn't having the symptoms that your FH or FA kittys do. Mystro and I are blessed. I hope I can stll be a part of this group, becase she might just get CHF. And I contiue to learn about many other things here.

            Peace to all, love jackie and fat mystro. No more pilling, yay!!!! Unless the thyroid tests are funky. But no CHF, such a miracle




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Banu Korgul
            So very happy to hear that.. i still can t believe the vet who gave your cat such a high dose of lasix... Wow. But good news at the end.. ... Sent via Banu s
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 3 4:30 PM
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              So very happy to hear that.. i still can't believe the vet who gave your cat such a high dose of lasix...
              Wow.

              But good news at the end..
              :)


              Sent via Banu's iPod touch

              On Apr 3, 2012, at 19:52, "Jackie" <jboynton@...> wrote:

              > I finally took mystro to a third vet, who gave me the right diagnosis. She does NOT have CHF, She does Not have respiratory disease. She is way TOO fat, despite diet. She is NOT diabetic!! He felt the litter was causing both of us to cough, lol.
              >
              > So, since the diets prescribed by former vets have always been "no more than 2/3 cup of dry food a day, anything's fine." My new and permanent vet is checking thyroid to see if that might causing her to continue gaining weight, despite special diet last vet gave me.
              >
              > Great news all around, thyroid test results tomorrow. I now have enough enalapril and furosemide to treat a cat with real heart disease for a year. But she doesn't need them, so I don't even care that they cost a fortune. Actually, I am very close to needing both of them if my heart doesn't get better, and my BP continues to rise.
              >
              > For the first time in many months, I now am able to think straight, and my panic is subsiding. I knew the cat didn't need those pills, she wasn't having the symptoms that your FH or FA kittys do. Mystro and I are blessed. I hope I can stll be a part of this group, becase she might just get CHF. And I contiue to learn about many other things here.
              >
              > Peace to all, love jackie and fat mystro. No more pilling, yay!!!! Unless the thyroid tests are funky. But no CHF, such a miracle
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > TODAY(Beta) • Powered by Yahoo!
              > What Mega Millions winners should do
              > Privacy Policy
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Vicky
              The guide is copyright 2006 and seems very outdated. While some of the charts may be accurate, I seriously question many of the conclusions it makes about what
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 4 6:57 AM
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                The guide is copyright 2006 and seems very outdated. While some of the
                charts may be accurate, I seriously question many of the conclusions
                it makes about what to feed cats. When a scientific publication states
                that the cat has a short intestine, yet can't conclude that
                carbohydrates and fiber are bad, I would not recommend any of their
                guidelines. They even mention the false assumption that fiber helps
                control blood glucose. Fiber in the form of grains or plant products
                contribute to hyperglycemia by adding carbohydrates. The pamphlet even
                says, "Because cats are carnivores, the short length of their long
                intestines limits their ability to ferment fibers that are found in
                many carbohydrates."
                So why even suggest that cats need carbohydrates and fiber???

                If anyone wants to learn what to appropriately feed cats, please go to
                catinfo.org. Written and maintained by a licensed veterinarian with
                decades of feline experince, Dr. Pierson explains in a no nonsense
                fashion why cats need to eat meat or at least good quality canned
                food. The examples she gives from her own experiences are helpful
                explanations. Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins also wrote a very good book
                called "Your Cat." There are several other vets online, Dr. Hofke is
                one, Dr. Zoran is another, who repeat over and over again that cats
                are obligate carnivores, which means they should eat meat only.

                After feeding Hill's Science Diet "Hairball Control" to my magnificent
                Nebelung kitty Gandalf for several years, he became diabetic. I
                learned a lot about what is best for cats because of that horrible
                disease, and I hope to help others avoid the heartbreak.

                Vicky

                On Apr 3, 2012, at 6:13 PM, Leo Wempu wrote:

                > That's good news!
                >
                > I see you've received lots of advice on how to feed Mystro. Here's a
                > little guide to add to the mix :-)
                >
                > http://dels-old.nas.edu/dels/rpt_briefs/cat_nutrition_final.pdf
                >
                > You'll want her to get everything she needs, but a little less
                > calories each day, so she'll loose weight slowly and safely. I
                > actually think it might be easier with canned food. The amount of
                > dry per day is quite restricted and she might not be a happy cat.
                > There's quite nothing like a kitty on a diet begging for more food
                > to make one feel like a "criminal".
                >
                > Henna & Angel Leo
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Jackie <jboynton@...>
                > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 7:52 PM
                > Subject: [FH] Great news for Mystro; many things ruled out by new
                > vet!! No CHF or Asthma!
                >
                >
                >
                > I finally took mystro to a third vet, who gave me the right
                > diagnosis. She does NOT have CHF, She does Not have respiratory
                > disease. She is way TOO fat, despite diet. She is NOT diabetic!! He
                > felt the litter was causing both of us to cough, lol.
                >
                > So, since the diets prescribed by former vets have always been "no
                > more than 2/3 cup of dry food a day, anything's fine." My new and
                > permanent vet is checking thyroid to see if that might causing her
                > to continue gaining weight, despite special diet last vet gave me.
                >
                > Great news all around, thyroid test results tomorrow. I now have
                > enough enalapril and furosemide to treat a cat with real heart
                > disease for a year. But she doesn't need them, so I don't even care
                > that they cost a fortune. Actually, I am very close to needing both
                > of them if my heart doesn't get better, and my BP continues to rise.
                >
                > For the first time in many months, I now am able to think straight,
                > and my panic is subsiding. I knew the cat didn't need those pills,
                > she wasn't having the symptoms that your FH or FA kittys do. Mystro
                > and I are blessed. I hope I can stll be a part of this group, becase
                > she might just get CHF. And I contiue to learn about many other
                > things here.
                >
                > Peace to all, love jackie and fat mystro. No more pilling, yay!!!!
                > Unless the thyroid tests are funky. But no CHF, such a miracle
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jim Sinclair
                ... Fortunately my vegetarian cats have not read those articles..... There *is* a well established (since 1986) veterinarian-approved vegan diet formulation
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 4 7:59 AM
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                  On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Vicky <zhrbjn@...> wrote:

                  > If anyone wants to learn what to appropriately feed cats, please go to
                  > catinfo.org. Written and maintained by a licensed veterinarian with
                  > decades of feline experince, Dr. Pierson explains in a no nonsense
                  > fashion why cats need to eat meat or at least good quality canned
                  > food. The examples she gives from her own experiences are helpful
                  > explanations. Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins also wrote a very good book
                  > called "Your Cat." There are several other vets online, Dr. Hofke is
                  > one, Dr. Zoran is another, who repeat over and over again that cats
                  > are obligate carnivores, which means they should eat meat only.

                  Fortunately my vegetarian cats have not read those articles.....

                  There *is* a well established (since 1986) veterinarian-approved vegan
                  diet formulation for cats. See www.vegepet.com and download the book
                  for more information.

                  Jim Sinclair  jisincla@...
                  www.jimsinclair.org
                  http://moosepuppy.petfinder.com
                • Leo Wempu
                  You are entitled to have your opinion :-). One thing I find puzzling is the need to categorize everything as either all good or all bad . Too much of
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 4 10:19 AM
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                    You are entitled to have your opinion :-).

                    One thing I find puzzling is the need to categorize everything as either all "good" or all "bad". Too much of anything, as well as too little, can be bad. Rare things are either completely bad or completely good in essence. Think of drugs for example. The right amount can save a life, too much can kill and too little be ineffective.

                    Also, what's best for your cat may not be best for your neighbour's cat. The guide didn't say your kitty needs to eat carbohydrates. If you read it, it said carbohydrates are not essential but provide energy. That energy might come in handy for an underweight CRF kitty, who can't handle loads of protein for example. Talking about CRF, many CRF kitties eat pumpkin for constipation. Would you like to deny them their pumpkin, because fiber is supposedly "bad"?

                    If I may ask, a little respect for other people's choices. Choices that may work for them and their kitties.


                    I'm sorry to hear about your Gandalf's health problem.


                    Henna



                    ________________________________
                    From: Vicky <zhrbjn@...>
                    To:
                    Cc: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:57 PM
                    Subject: [FH] Re: Your Cat's Nutritional Needs

                    The guide is copyright 2006 and seems very outdated. While some of the 
                    charts may be accurate, I seriously question many of the conclusions 
                    it makes about what to feed cats. When a scientific publication states 
                    that the cat has a short intestine, yet  can't conclude that 
                    carbohydrates and fiber are bad, I would not recommend any of their 
                    guidelines. They even mention the false assumption that fiber helps 
                    control blood glucose. Fiber in the form of grains or plant products 
                    contribute to hyperglycemia by adding carbohydrates. The pamphlet even 
                    says, "Because cats are carnivores, the short length of their long 
                    intestines limits their ability to ferment fibers that are found in 
                    many carbohydrates."
                    So why even suggest that cats need carbohydrates and fiber???

                    If anyone wants to learn what to appropriately feed cats, please go to 
                    catinfo.org. Written and maintained by a licensed veterinarian with 
                    decades of feline experince, Dr. Pierson explains in a no nonsense 
                    fashion why cats need to eat meat or at least good quality canned 
                    food. The examples she gives from her own experiences are helpful 
                    explanations. Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins also wrote a very good book 
                    called "Your Cat." There are several other vets online, Dr. Hofke is 
                    one, Dr. Zoran is another, who repeat over and over again that cats 
                    are obligate carnivores, which means they should eat meat only.

                    After feeding Hill's Science Diet "Hairball Control" to my magnificent 
                    Nebelung kitty Gandalf for several years, he became diabetic. I 
                    learned a lot about what is best for cats because of that horrible 
                    disease, and I hope to help others avoid the heartbreak.

                    Vicky

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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