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HCM and loose clots

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  • zippersandsquid
    Hi i was wondering if anyone may have some advice or has been through a similar problem with their HCM cat. Basically Biscuit was diagnosed approx a year ago
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 25, 2012
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      Hi i was wondering if anyone may have some advice or has been through a similar problem with their HCM cat. Basically Biscuit was diagnosed approx a year ago with HCM, this last week he has shown symptoms of lethargy and refusal to eat. I took him to the vet who basically diagnosed a virus and high temp. I wasnt happy so after many appointments and several shots of painkillers it was discovered he is constipated. He hasnt been to the loo since he had an enema on weds (that i am aware of, however he did escape) and seems to be peeing a lot of urine approx 3 times a day which apparently is down to the frusemide and the spirilactone. i now cant get him to eat any of his heart meds (frusemide, Spiralactone, Plavix, Fortekor) and i cant give him asprin due to the painkillers he has had. he is on a laxative twice a day and on the hills a/d critical care food which he is still refusuing to eat more than a mouthful at a time.
      I am wondering if he is in some sort of failure in his bowel due to a clot coming loose? and does anyone have any advice for me with what to do? he seems uncomfortable and has stopped grooming himself, i really dont want to give up on him but they have warned me if he doesnt go to the loo i might have too.
      Any advice would be very much appreciated
      Thank you
    • elfinmyst@aol.com
      Hi I am sorry I don t have much advice as I have little or no experience of this. All my HCM cats go to the toilet normally. A blood clot would travel to one
      Message 2 of 19 , Feb 26, 2012
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        Hi

        I am sorry I don't have much advice as I have little or no experience of
        this. All my HCM cats go to the toilet normally. A blood clot would travel to
        one of three places, the coronary artery (heart attack) femoral artery
        (paralysis of rear legs) or the brain (stroke). I don't know of any
        circumstances where it could cause the rectal muscles to fail.

        It is absolutely vital he gets his meds, they can't just be stopped,
        especialy the fortekor. I hope someone replies with experience of this soon.

        Lyn..


        _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Anna Moore
        Thank you for your reply. It s just so distressing to see him so wiped out. He is down for another scan and ultrasound tomorrow so will have to wait and see.
        Message 3 of 19 , Feb 26, 2012
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          Thank you for your reply. It's just so distressing to see him so wiped out. He is down for another scan and ultrasound tomorrow so will have to wait and see. Hes not eating so it's really difficult to get his tablets down, I don't know if I am stressing him out more in a sense by forcing them down him. The emergency vet has advised to try and get the fortekor and frusemide down which I am just about managing. The plavix and spiralacetone I am trying whenever he looks a bit brighter and I think he can. This disease is just an awful thing to watch take hold :(
        • Lynda Doty
          Oh, I hate this disease!!!!           I have to depend on Martha eating in order to get her meds down also. It can be so difficult. On those days when
          Message 4 of 19 , Feb 26, 2012
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            Oh, I hate this disease!!!!
                      I have to depend on Martha eating in order to get her meds down also. It
            can be so difficult. On those days when she won't eat, I keep stirring
            her food and adding stuff to it---Fortiflora, bonita flakes, and freeze
            dried chicken, ground up and sprinkled. She will eat the goodies off and
            leave the food. But each time we go through this drama, she gets a
            little bit more of the food (medicine) and I just keep going till the food
            is gone.

                        The cardiologist prescribed Plavix for Martha but it made
            her foam and drool, so she could not take it. She is taking 5 mg of baby
            aspirin every three days. I put that in a tiny bit of turkey baby food
            (no additives) and she takes it fine.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~
            Blessings,
            Lynda, Martha & Angel C.B.


            --- On Sun, 2/26/12, Anna Moore <tinylittlewoman@...> wrote:

















             









            Thank you for your reply. It's just so distressing to see him so wiped out. He is down for another scan and ultrasound tomorrow so will have to wait and see. Hes not eating so it's really difficult to get his tablets down, I don't know if I am stressing him out more in a sense by forcing them down him. The emergency vet has advised to try and get the fortekor and frusemide down which I am just about managing. The plavix and spiralacetone I am trying whenever he looks a bit brighter and I think he can. This disease is just an awful thing to watch take hold :(

























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          • Lynda Doty
            Lyn, can blood clots travel to the lungs? ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Blessings, Lynda, Martha & Angel C.B. ...   Hi I am sorry I don t have much advice as I have little or
            Message 5 of 19 , Feb 26, 2012
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              Lyn, can blood clots travel to the lungs?

              ~~~~~~~~~~~~
              Blessings,
              Lynda, Martha & Angel C.B.


              --- On Sun, 2/26/12, elfinmyst@... <elfinmyst@...> wrote:

















               









              Hi



              I am sorry I don't have much advice as I have little or no experience of

              this. All my HCM cats go to the toilet normally. A blood clot would travel to

              one of three places, the coronary artery (heart attack) femoral artery

              (paralysis of rear legs) or the brain (stroke). I don't know of any

              circumstances where it could cause the rectal muscles to fail.



              It is absolutely vital he gets his meds, they can't just be stopped,

              especialy the fortekor. I hope someone replies with experience of this soon.



              Lyn..



















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            • Carol
              hi Lynda, I have the same problem with hiding meds in food with my guys. I gave up and just pill them now. If you put the bad tasting meds inside empty
              Message 6 of 19 , Feb 26, 2012
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                hi Lynda,

                I have the same problem with hiding meds in food with my guys. I gave up and just pill them now. If you put the bad tasting meds inside empty capsules, they won't taste it and no foaming at the mouth. With Misty we put her Amlodipine, Methimazole and Nattokinase in one capsule and pill her with that, so she gets only one pill instead of three separate ones and we know she's getting all the meds.

                It's imperative that Martha gets all her meds. Find a way that works for you and her as far as pilling goes. Some people can pill with no problem, others have trouble. I did years ago...couldn't get a pill down my angel Sweetie to save my neck! Someone told me how they did it and I've had success ever since. I take the pill and put it in a little wad of canned food, make it like a little meatball. I stick that to my finger and pill my guys that way. They always just swallow the little meatball thinking it's food, don't even know there's a pill inside. I push it along the side of the mouth as far back and I can and quickly get my finger out before they start chewing on me. It took a little practice, but now it's a breeze to give them their pills.

                The other thing is that putting meds in food can make them have aversion to the food, then they won't eat, no matter what you try to feed them. I try never to put meds in food if I can help it. Things like psyllium or digestive enzymes and probiotics are fine, but not bad tasting meds.


                Carol and the gang



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Lynda Doty <ibdcat@...>
                To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>; Anna Moore <tinylittlewoman@...>
                Sent: Sun, Feb 26, 2012 7:40 am
                Subject: Re: [FH] Re: HCM and loose clots





                Oh, I hate this disease!!!!
                I have to depend on Martha eating in order to get her meds down also. It
                can be so difficult. On those days when she won't eat, I keep stirring
                her food and adding stuff to it---Fortiflora, bonita flakes, and freeze
                dried chicken, ground up and sprinkled. She will eat the goodies off and
                leave the food. But each time we go through this drama, she gets a
                little bit more of the food (medicine) and I just keep going till the food
                is gone.

                The cardiologist prescribed Plavix for Martha but it made
                her foam and drool, so she could not take it. She is taking 5 mg of baby
                aspirin every three days. I put that in a tiny bit of turkey baby food
                (no additives) and she takes it fine.

                ~~~~~~~~~~~~
                Blessings,
                Lynda, Martha & Angel C.B.





                .







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • elfinmyst@aol.com
                Hi Lynda Yes they can, theoretically they can travel anywhere and stick in any artery, but it s rarer in cats. They usually stick in the branch of the femoral
                Message 7 of 19 , Feb 26, 2012
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                  Hi Lynda

                  Yes they can, theoretically they can travel anywhere and stick in any
                  artery, but it's rarer in cats. They usually stick in the branch of the femoral
                  artery where it narrows to go down both legs. Clots in other places are
                  much rarer.

                  Lyn:)

                  _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • elfinmyst@aol.com
                  Hi I also use that method, a little ball of meat paste. The vet showed me how to, I push it as far back as possible and they just swallow it. After a while
                  Message 8 of 19 , Feb 26, 2012
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                    Hi

                    I also use that method, a little ball of meat paste. The vet showed me how
                    to, I push it as far back as possible and they just swallow it. After a
                    while they get quite used to it and even seem keen to wait for the paste
                    treat. It also works with recovery food which is perfect for cats who aren't
                    eating much.

                    Lyn

                    _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Westgold
                    Hi -- I just read all these posts. I don t know why your vets haven t given you an appetite stimulant for your kitty. If they don t eat, they just get
                    Message 9 of 19 , Feb 26, 2012
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                      Hi -- I just read all these posts. I don't know why your vets haven't given you an appetite stimulant for your kitty. If they don't eat, they just get weaker. They need their strength! Ask your vet for some periactin -- it's a miracle drug. When I gave 1/4 pill to my Pooh when he was so sick, he would start to eat in about a half hour. (Always give canned food with some extra water added.) He'd eat a good full meal, and then come back and nibble a little more over the next couple hours. Sometimes I only had to do that for 3-4 days, and then he'd be feeling stronger and would start eating by himself again. But on any days when I felt he didn't have enough, I gave him a pill. It really helped him get through his last 3 months before the brain tumor got him. Be sure to check with your cardiologist to make sure that it's ok to give periactin, that it won't interfere with any of the heart meds, etc. But you have to keep your kitty's strength up!! And protein is the only way to do that -- good canned food. Even if you have to feed little bits at a time on your finger, or mix water in the food and syringe it in -- they must eat! There is a whole list for assisted feeding, they will help you with all kinds of suggestions. But try that pill first and see -- it might be enough to solve the problem.

                      take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto

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                    • Joanne Haeussinger
                      We just added Periactin to Twix s regime, and it s been a Godsend. She went from barely eating to eating up a storm. One question I have for everyone... Do you
                      Message 10 of 19 , Feb 26, 2012
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                        We just added Periactin to Twix's regime, and it's been a Godsend.
                        She went from barely eating to eating up a storm. One question I have for everyone... Do you find there are some days where they just don't seem to feel right, but their breathing is still ok? Twix seems a bit lethargic today, and doesn't want to eat as much, but her rrr is ok. Please let me know if your kitties go through days like that and then bounce back. I'm a little worried.
                        Joanne
                        Sent from my iPhone

                        On Feb 26, 2012, at 10:48 AM, "Westgold" <westgold@...> wrote:

                        > Hi -- I just read all these posts. I don't know why your vets haven't given you an appetite stimulant for your kitty. If they don't eat, they just get weaker. They need their strength! Ask your vet for some periactin -- it's a miracle drug. When I gave 1/4 pill to my Pooh when he was so sick, he would start to eat in about a half hour. (Always give canned food with some extra water added.) He'd eat a good full meal, and then come back and nibble a little more over the next couple hours. Sometimes I only had to do that for 3-4 days, and then he'd be feeling stronger and would start eating by himself again. But on any days when I felt he didn't have enough, I gave him a pill. It really helped him get through his last 3 months before the brain tumor got him. Be sure to check with your cardiologist to make sure that it's ok to give periactin, that it won't interfere with any of the heart meds, etc. But you have to keep your kitty's strength up!! And protein i s the only way to do that -- good canned food. Even if you have to feed little bits at a time on your finger, or mix water in the food and syringe it in -- they must eat! There is a whole list for assisted feeding, they will help you with all kinds of suggestions. But try that pill first and see -- it might be enough to solve the problem.
                        >
                        > take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >


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                      • Anna Moore
                        Hi guys. Thankyou for all these suggestions. I will deffo check out the assisted feeding link and mention the appetite stimulants to the vet tomorrow. I had
                        Message 11 of 19 , Feb 27, 2012
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                          Hi guys. Thankyou for all these suggestions. I will deffo check out the assisted feeding link and mention the appetite stimulants to the vet tomorrow. I had some luck with biscuit today, he managed to go to the toilet by himself this morning and devour a big plate of chicken I had left out. However, I took him back to the vet this morning and they ran both another X-ray and ultrasound on him and they fear it's a clot in his small intestine. We've travelled down the country to an animal hospital 80 miles away and he's been left in their care for the night. Fingers crossed the fact he started eating again and developed some strength back may bode well for whatever tomorrow's tests result show.
                          Anna and biscuit x
                        • Anna Moore
                          Hi All I received a phone call from the hospitalwhere Biscuit is being treated, it turns out they think he has a problem with his kidneys now, which doesn’t
                          Message 12 of 19 , Feb 28, 2012
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                            Hi All

                            I received a phone call from the hospitalwhere Biscuit is being treated, it turns out they think he has a problem with his kidneys now, which doesn’t bode well for the ginger as heart failure and kidney disease are difficult to treat together. Does anyone in the group have any experience of these two problems together?? He is being kept in theliverpool animal hospital until the weekend and he stabilizes enough to maybe come home.

                            Anna and Biscuit x



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                          • Claire Wood Hill
                            Hello there Anna I m sorry that you and biscuit are dealing with this double whammy of a diagnosis. My cat has both as well but this is complicated by a
                            Message 13 of 19 , Feb 29, 2012
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                              Hello there Anna

                              I'm sorry that you and biscuit are dealing with this double whammy of a diagnosis. My cat has both as well but this is complicated by a number of other problems. The main issue that you need to contend with is that a cat with Heart problems needs to reduce the load or the fluid pressure on the heart should it go into congestive heart failure. This is done using diuretics which causing them to lose fluids. With chronic renal problems, the main challenge is keeping the cats hydrated, as they urinate
                              more than they should. So the two conditions contradict one another. My cat Wowie has received diuretics but a cautious dose with very careful monitoring. My advice would be to treat the kidney disease as proactively as possible to try and pre-empt a
                              'crash' or crisis which is treated by IV fluids which can very easily overload the heart and should be avoided. There is a fabulous chronic renal failure group, Tanya's crf forum and an associated website with an abundance of really helpful information.

                              It will be a real balancing act but if you can keep on top of the kidneys that will really help.

                              Very best of luck to you and biscuit.

                              Claire and Wowie

                              Sent from my iPhone

                              On 29 Feb 2012, at 07:54, Anna Moore <tinylittlewoman@...> wrote:

                              > Hi All
                              >
                              > I received a phone call from the hospitalwhere Biscuit is being treated, it turns out they think he has a problem with his kidneys now, which doesn’t bode well for the ginger as heart failure and kidney disease are difficult to treat together. Does anyone in the group have any experience of these two problems together?? He is being kept in theliverpool animal hospital until the weekend and he stabilizes enough to maybe come home.
                              >
                              > Anna and Biscuit x
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >


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                            • Anna Moore
                              Hi Claire and wowie Thankyou for your reply, it s comforting to know someone else is going through the same problems with their cat. He s currently on an Iv
                              Message 14 of 19 , Feb 29, 2012
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                                Hi Claire and wowie
                                Thankyou for your reply, it's comforting to know someone else is going through the same problems with their cat. He's currently on an Iv drip at the moment, but as you mentioned this isn't a solution for a cat with heart failure. They have managed to get him eating a bit this morning and apparently he seems a lot brighter in himself. Can I ask if you found that wowie had hcm first and then developed kidney failure?? I am wondering how my insurance company may deal with this, ie two separate claims or just the 1??
                                Thankyou for those links, I will go and join the support group for the renal failure too.
                                Thank you for your advice. And hope all is well with you and wowie
                                Anna and biscuit xx
                              • Westgold
                                Hi -- I had a cat diagnosed once with serious kidney disease. But they decided to keep her overnight on fluids and retest. After fluid, she was just fine.
                                Message 15 of 19 , Feb 29, 2012
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                                  Hi -- I had a cat diagnosed once with serious kidney disease. But they decided to keep her overnight on fluids and retest. After fluid, she was just fine. If they are dehydrated, the kidney values can be way off. But your vet will have to be very careful if he wants to try this -- he will have to balance the fluids with the heart disease, etc. But dicsuss with him the possibility of the kidney values being knocked out of whack by the lasix or other drugs Biscuit might be taking.
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Anna Moore
                                  To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 2:54 AM
                                  Subject: [FH] Re: HCM and loose clots



                                  Hi All

                                  I received a phone call from the hospitalwhere Biscuit is being treated, it turns out they think he has a problem with his kidneys now, which doesn’t bode well for the ginger as heart failure and kidney disease are difficult to treat together. Does anyone in the group have any experience of these two problems together?? He is being kept in theliverpool animal hospital until the weekend and he stabilizes enough to maybe come home.

                                  Anna and Biscuit x

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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                                • Toby Jones
                                  Dealing with these two diseases is ultimately what killed my boy, Eli.  My recommendations to you would be: 1. Talk to your vet about the benefits of
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Feb 29, 2012
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                                    Dealing with these two diseases is ultimately what killed my boy, Eli.  My recommendations to you would be:

                                    1. Talk to your vet about the benefits of Benazepril, if Biscuit is not already taking it.
                                    2. Make sure you are feeding a WET food only diet.  Talk to your vet about the benefit of a low Phosphorous diet.
                                    3. Make sure that you have a water dish with running water to stimulate drinking.

                                    It's a very horrible type of Hell (pardon the strong language) that you are in.  Walking the razor's edge.

                                    Ryan



                                    ________________________________
                                    From: Anna Moore <tinylittlewoman@...>
                                    To: "feline-heart@yahoogroups.com" <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 11:54 PM
                                    Subject: [FH] Re: HCM and loose clots


                                     
                                    Hi All

                                    I received a phone call from the hospitalwhere Biscuit is being treated, it turns out they think he has a problem with his kidneys now, which doesn’t bode well for the ginger as heart failure and kidney disease are difficult to treat together. Does anyone in the group have any experience of these two problems together?? He is being kept in theliverpool animal hospital until the weekend and he stabilizes enough to maybe come home.

                                    Anna and Biscuit x

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                                  • Anna Moore
                                    Hi Toby I remember reading your posts about Eli when I first joined the group and I am truly sorry for your loss. I think biscuit is already taking benazepril
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Feb 29, 2012
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                                      Hi Toby
                                      I remember reading your posts about Eli when I first joined the group and I am truly sorry for your loss.
                                      I think biscuit is already taking benazepril as fortekor as it is marketed in the uk. I will definately speak to the animal hospital regarding a low phosphorous diet, will do some research into that this week before he comes home. He was on the hills gd dried diet before he became ill so will look at the canned and pouch kd versions they do, unless you have any recommendations??
                                      I also have a catit water fountain at home which he drinks out of, so am glad to see am doing some things right!!
                                      Many thanks for your mail, it's been greatly appreciated and very informative
                                      Anna and biscuit x
                                    • Anna Moore
                                      Hi Claire Any advice is greatly appreciated. I like to be informed before I go to the vet so I am able to suggest things to them. I will look into these oils,
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Mar 1 12:04 AM
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                                        Hi Claire
                                        Any advice is greatly appreciated. I like to be informed before I go to the vet so I am able to suggest things to them. I will look into these oils, scrubs and the stimulants and binders. This area is all new to me, I had only just managed to get my head round his hcm and get into a routine. What you said about supporting the kidneys more is exactly what the consultant in the hospital said. Some of his levels are starting to return to normal so fingers crossed he may get home soon. They are planning to reintroduce the frusemide to him today after being on a drip
                                        Thank you for all your help
                                        Anna and biscuit x
                                      • Toby Jones
                                        The Catit water fountain is the best fountain that I have used, and the most affordable that I have seen.  Please read Tanya s Chronic Kidney Disease website
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Mar 1 1:51 PM
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                                          The Catit water fountain is the best fountain that I have used, and the most affordable that I have seen.  Please read Tanya's Chronic Kidney Disease website (www.felinecrf.org).  It is VERY informative regarding kidney disease.  Basically you want to be as easy on the kidneys as you are able, and a canned food diet with low phosphorous is a good way to do it.  I believe there is a chart with food values for the UK on Tanya's website.  You are in a rough spot because you are trying to keep Biscuit hydrated without over hydrating him.  The last piece of advice that I would give you is to buy a baby scale and weigh Biscuit once per day.  I purchased one for about $35 on Amazon that is accurate to half an ounce and has a "hold" function for squirmy babies/cats.  A scale is highly advised because you can tell if Biscuit is rapidly losing weight or gaining weight from water retention.  We didn't realize how dehydrated Eli was until much too late.  I
                                          now weigh my three cats once per day and chart their weight.  It may seem like a lot of work, but I do the same with our new (human) baby, and I love my cats just as much, so it is worth the effort to me. 


                                          Ryan

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