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can the furosemid sometimes be stopped?

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  • marievdbc
    Hello, I am a new member. My cat is 12 years old. We have discovered that she has a beginning intermediary cardiopathy* - because she developed a pulmonary
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 2, 2011
      Hello,
      I am a new member. My cat is 12 years old. We have discovered that she has a beginning intermediary cardiopathy* - because she developed a pulmonary oedema mid-august with slight pericardic effusion.
      She's been treated from mid august until the 25th of september with Fortekor 5mg ( one half a day) and Furosemid (5mg a day). Her weight was around 3,3 kg.
      The last echography (25th of september) showed that the oedema and the pericardic effusion had disappeared but a left endocavitary echo was perceived (whose diameter was 3,7mm). Since then, she's been on 5 mg of aspirin twice a week.
      About the furosemid, I heard two points of view at the time : the person who did the echo, told me to stop the medication (since the cat's oedema was resorbed) ; a second advice told me to go on with the slightest possible dose (to prevent reformation of oedemas). My choice was to give her 5 mg of furosemid twice a week.

      If I need to share your experiences, it's because I have some hesitations about the proper time to do a new echo.
      My cat has found some kind of stability and since she can easily get stressed, it's a difficult question.
      But the cardiologist who gave me a second advice then, tells me that I should do a new echo soon, arguing now that it is, in some rare cases, possible to stop the furosemid all the same...

      What are your experiences on the matter?

      Thank you for your help,
      Marie.



      * left atrium in september : AG/AO=16,9/8,5 ; 198,7%
    • elfinmyst@aol.com
      Hi I have stopped the lasix (furosemide) in my cats once their fluids were under control. The drug lasts 8 hours so twice a week would only work for 16 hours
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 3, 2011
        Hi

        I have stopped the lasix (furosemide) in my cats once their fluids were
        under control. The drug lasts 8 hours so twice a week would only work for 16
        hours in a week. However, I have continued a second diuretic called
        spironolactone instead at the lowest dose. The normal time to do a repeat echo is
        between 3 months and year depending on how stable the cats are. Maxi is
        yearly as his HCM never seems to progress, Trixi is 6 months as she does
        progress.

        If they change tablets, echos can be 3 months to check they are working.
        Are you worried about lasix and the kidneys? I monitor my cats carefully when
        I stop, sometimes they need to go back onto it for a while. Every cat is
        different. You need to watch the breathing very very carefully at rest.

        Sorry I can't be more help. It must be difficult when you get two
        conflicting reports from two vets,

        Lyn

        _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • joanne marbut
        My cat is on both lasix and Sprionolactone. But her condition is serious. I would use Spironolactone each day.  It drains the fluid while maintaining
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 3, 2011
          My cat is on both lasix and Sprionolactone. But her condition is serious. I would use Spironolactone each day.  It drains the fluid while maintaining potassium which the body needs. My cat receives half a pill a day divided over two times a day (I don't have the mg on me.) But if the cat is susceptible to congestive heart failure/fluid in the lungs, then the cat will need lasix daily in addition. My cat receives half of a pill divided over three times a day.  The best thing to do is monitor the cat (lethargy or just always tired and easily worn out, breathing heavily with rapid breathing/fast and constant rise and fall of chest), get xrays every three months (which will show if fluid is in the lungs/heart), and see a cardiologist if possible every few months for echos. If a tech is doing the echos and a cardiologist isn't reviewing the echos, I would suggest that you find a cardiologist and not rely on a vet tech. 

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • acrocat@rocketmail.com
          Hi Marie Furosemide often can t be stopped. The point of furosemide is not just to get rid of edema that is there, it is to prevent edema from building up
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 5, 2011
            Hi Marie

            Furosemide often can't be stopped. The point of furosemide is not just to get rid of edema that is there, it is to prevent edema from building up since this is an often fatal condition (the cat can "drown" from fluid in the lungs if not treated quickly).

            Some cats will have mild or moderate heart disease and have an episode of heart failure due to stress, or steroids, or even a huge salty meal. These cats can often go off furosemide because their underlying disease isn't that bad, but this should be done carefully and with vet (preferably cardiologist) supervision.

            Cats with severe or advanced disease will build up fluid if they don't stay on furosemide. The cats should have chest x-rays if they go off their cardiac meds to watch for a build up of fluid.

            An important point is that no vet can listen to your cat and tell you that there is no edema. Only chest x-rays do this. So going to the vet, having them listen to the heart, and then someone saying to go off the furosemide is silly, unless they do chest x-rays and prove there is no edema. I know you didn't say this happened, I'm just saying for general information :)

            Take care
            Adriann
          • Cont Marie
            Thanks Adriann. The fact is indeed that, before she had CHF mid-August, I had to give her prednisolon because interpreting the x-rays, the vet had first
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 5, 2011
              Thanks Adriann.
              The fact is indeed that, before she had CHF mid-August, I had to give her prednisolon because interpreting the x-rays, the vet had first thought she had asthma...
              (Not speaking of the vaccination against cold and the flea spot on she received at the beginning of August)


              At the end of Septembre, the specialist who did the second echo, said that it was a beginning cardiopathy (with a thrombus though).
              He adviced to stop the furosemide.
              But I saw another cardiologist for a second advice (based on the results of the echo only). That person told me I should not stop the furosemide, out of prevention.


              Now this person whose advice I followed, said to me, on the phone, that I should check my cat's heart condition soon, to see if it might be possible to stop the furosemide. It gives me the feeling that I might have done the wrong choice in Septembre, while my cat's kidneys had already been under a lot of pressure to get rid of the edema (5 mg a day, during one month and a half).

              She's been since Septembre on 5mg of furosemide twice a week (2x 2 quarters).

              So I am worried for the kidneys on one hand.

              But on the other hand, I'm worried for the stress I 'll put my cat through with a third echo within not even three months (if I have an appointment before Christmas)...

              My cat is in better condition (though she still sleeps a lot). I can't really see improvement on the day she gets furosemide. Sometimes I feel she's then more tired.


              Either I do a new echo before Christmas to be sure, either I try to reduce the furosemide during next month to 2,5 mg twice a week and wait until about the 10th of January for a new echo?

              I can't decide!!

              Thank you,
              Marie.
















              ________________________________
              From: "acrocat@..." <acrocat@...>
              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 4:28 PM
              Subject: [FH] Re: can the furosemid sometimes be stopped?


               
              Hi Marie

              Furosemide often can't be stopped. The point of furosemide is not just to get rid of edema that is there, it is to prevent edema from building up since this is an often fatal condition (the cat can "drown" from fluid in the lungs if not treated quickly).

              Some cats will have mild or moderate heart disease and have an episode of heart failure due to stress, or steroids, or even a huge salty meal. These cats can often go off furosemide because their underlying disease isn't that bad, but this should be done carefully and with vet (preferably cardiologist) supervision.

              Cats with severe or advanced disease will build up fluid if they don't stay on furosemide. The cats should have chest x-rays if they go off their cardiac meds to watch for a build up of fluid.

              An important point is that no vet can listen to your cat and tell you that there is no edema. Only chest x-rays do this. So going to the vet, having them listen to the heart, and then someone saying to go off the furosemide is silly, unless they do chest x-rays and prove there is no edema. I know you didn't say this happened, I'm just saying for general information :)

              Take care
              Adriann




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • joanne marbut
              Marie,  I agree with Adriann.  If you re noticing the cat is better the days she takes lasix, then she needs it each day. While my cat receives a 1/4  three
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 6, 2011
                Marie, 
                I agree with Adriann.  If you're noticing the cat is better the days she takes lasix, then she needs it each day. While my cat receives a 1/4  three times a day, your cat might need 1/4 of a pill a day or twice a day. The object is to keep down and away the edema. Stick with lasix but I would do it daily. Discuss it with the vet the amount needed.  Get the echo when you can because it's a great diagnostic tool. Stick with the doctor who said that the cat needs lasix and avoid the one who seems not to understand the situation.  The cat won't like going to the vet but it's necessary. The more you go, the calmer the cat will be in the car and at the vet (at least mine is but getting her into the carrier at home is another story. I need lots of patience, a quiet atmosphere, and must pretend that nothing is going on AND I don't move the carrier until I have her in my arms.)  As for the kidneys, if the heart isn't working, the kidneys won't either and the
                body will shut down. A potassium supplement will help the kidneys and Spironolactone as I've mentioned before. 

                You must make decisions and choose a course of action based on what you know and the vet knows and then stick with that for a few hours or days and see how the cat responds. Then if you see an adverse reaction, call the vet and make another decision based on what is happening at that moment. As time goes by, you will learn more about your cat, the disease, the reactions of the meds, etc. and will be better informed for future decision making.

                -Joanne

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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