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Re: New Diagnosis & Concerns

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  • Toby Jones
    Hi Zoe, I can do my best to attempt to answer some of your questions.  Keep in mind that I am not a vet.  I did, however, care for my cat with HCM for 4+
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
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      Hi Zoe,

      I can do my best to attempt to answer some of your questions.  Keep in mind that I am not a vet.  I did, however, care for my cat with HCM for 4+ years.  The following is based on my understanding of things.

      1. Taurine is essential for heart function in humans as well as cats.  In the years past (80's?) not all foods had sufficient Taurine, and so some cats developed heart issues.  Any food that you feed now should be fine.

      2. Many veterinarians and other science based professionals won't make recommendations for things if they're not research based and published in peer-reviewed journals.  That being said, many people here have used Coq10 for their HCM cats without any adverse side effects.  Benefits?  Maybe?  Most of us feel that if it's not doing harm, it's worth trying.

      3. Regarding food, I've spent about 20 hours in the last two weeks researching cat food.  My personal recommendations, based on levels of protein, fat, carbs, phosphorous, and sodium would be to feed ONLY canned food and to feed "Wellness Turkey", "Wellness Chicken", and "INNOVA Evo Turkey & Chicken Cat and Kitten".  One of my few regrets with my HCM cat was that I did not realize what a critical role nutrition played with cats at that time.

      I can't help you with vet recommendations, I'm on the west coast.  Post any other questions you may have, we're happy to help here!

      Ryan 


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jim Sinclair
      ... Actually, according to Clipsy s cardiologist, too much taurine can cause gastrointestinal upset. That s probably not a concern for cats on regular
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
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        On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 11:53 AM, joanne marbut <jomarbut@...> wrote:

        > Taurine is already in cat food but again, there's no reason not to give more.

        Actually, according to Clipsy's cardiologist, too much taurine can
        cause gastrointestinal upset. That's probably not a concern for cats
        on regular commercial cat foods. My cats are on a vegetarian diet made
        with Vegecat supplement, which contains taurine, but still when I
        found out my vegetarian cat had heart disease, I wanted to make sure
        it wasn't her diet at fault. I insisted on having her blood taurine
        level checked. It turned out to be not just within the reference range
        of 300-600, but actually well above reference levels at 734. When I
        asked about supplements, the cardiologist recommended firmly *against*
        adding more taurine because her level was already essentially at the
        level of a cat on a commercial diet with additional taurine
        supplementation.

        He did say that CoQ10 and L-carnitine would be fine for her, though.

        Anecdotally, after I read the articles here about CoQ10, I started
        giving it to my cat with asthma too. She seems to be healthier on it.

        Jim Sinclair  jisincla@...
        www.jimsinclair.org
        http://moosepuppy.petfinder.com
      • Westgold
        Your cats are on vegetarian diet??? I can t believe it!!! Cats are OBLIGATE CARNIVORES, that means God created them to eat ONLY MEAT. Their poor little
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
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          Your cats are on vegetarian diet??? I can't believe it!!! Cats are OBLIGATE CARNIVORES, that means God created them to eat ONLY MEAT. Their poor little bodies are crying out for MEAT, poor babies! Cats should be eating almost 100 protein, that is what their bodies are designed for. Their systems are not designed to properly digest and use all those other things. Do some research! Supplementing is not enough -- they need MEAT. They are forced to eat what you give them, please don't be so cruel to them. YOU can be vegetarian if you want, but please do not impose your beliefs on your poor cats!!

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Toby Jones
          From the research I ve done, a quality cat food should consist of (based on dry matter analysis, food should be 70 to 78% moisture as well): 40%+ protein
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
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            From the "research" I've done, a "quality" cat food should consist of (based on dry matter analysis, food should be 70 to 78% moisture as well):

            40%+ protein from a meat source (other sources of protein may not be nutritionally available to cats in digestion).
            20-40% fat.
            10% (MAX) carbohydrates.
            Low levels of "ash", sodium, and phosphorous.

            I don't have a dog/cat in this fight, and if your cats are in optimal health on their vegetarian diet, I suppose I can't argue too loudly.  From what I've read though, meat should be the only thing your cat eats.  Just my two cents.



            ________________________________
            From: Westgold <westgold@...>
            To: Jim Sinclair <jisincla@...>; feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 10:54 AM
            Subject: Re: [FH] Re: New Diagnosis & Concerns


             
            Your cats are on vegetarian diet??? I can't believe it!!! Cats are OBLIGATE CARNIVORES, that means God created them to eat ONLY MEAT. Their poor little bodies are crying out for MEAT, poor babies! Cats should be eating almost 100 protein, that is what their bodies are designed for. Their systems are not designed to properly digest and use all those other things. Do some research! Supplementing is not enough -- they need MEAT. They are forced to eat what you give them, please don't be so cruel to them. YOU can be vegetarian if you want, but please do not impose your beliefs on your poor cats!!

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Westgold
            Yes, this is right, Toby. No more than 10% carbs. A vegetarian diet is a lot more than that. But the problem is that a cat s digestive system is simply not
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
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              Yes, this is right, Toby. No more than 10% carbs. A vegetarian diet is a lot more than that. But the problem is that a cat's digestive system is simply not designed to handle all those carbs from vegetables, rice and grains, etc. You cannot fight Mother Nature!!!

              BTW, dogs are totally different -- dogs can happily eat all those vegetables, grains, rice, etc, and be perfectly healthy. But cats of all kinds are OBLIGATE CARNIVORES.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Toby Jones
              To: Westgold ; Jim Sinclair ; feline-heart
              Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 2:37 PM
              Subject: Re: [FH] Re: New Diagnosis & Concerns


              From the "research" I've done, a "quality" cat food should consist of (based on dry matter analysis, food should be 70 to 78% moisture as well):


              40%+ protein from a meat source (other sources of protein may not be nutritionally available to cats in digestion).
              20-40% fat.
              10% (MAX) carbohydrates.
              Low levels of "ash", sodium, and phosphorous.


              I don't have a dog/cat in this fight, and if your cats are in optimal health on their vegetarian diet, I suppose I can't argue too loudly. From what I've read though, meat should be the only thing your cat eats. Just my two cents.




              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              From: Westgold <westgold@...>
              To: Jim Sinclair <jisincla@...>; feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 10:54 AM
              Subject: Re: [FH] Re: New Diagnosis & Concerns



              Your cats are on vegetarian diet??? I can't believe it!!! Cats are OBLIGATE CARNIVORES, that means God created them to eat ONLY MEAT. Their poor little bodies are crying out for MEAT, poor babies! Cats should be eating almost 100 protein, that is what their bodies are designed for. Their systems are not designed to properly digest and use all those other things. Do some research! Supplementing is not enough -- they need MEAT. They are forced to eat what you give them, please don't be so cruel to them. YOU can be vegetarian if you want, but please do not impose your beliefs on your poor cats!!

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jim Sinclair
              Yes, my cats are on a vegetarian diet. Yes, I did plenty of research. I also have at this point more than 25 years of personal experience preparing and feeding
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
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                Yes, my cats are on a vegetarian diet. Yes, I did plenty of research.
                I also have at this point more than 25 years of personal experience
                preparing and feeding a vegetarian (mostly vegan but when I can get
                reliably humanely sourced eggs, I do) diet to cats. Yes, my
                veterinarian is fully aware of their diet and is attentive to any
                indication of diet-related issues with their health. My veterinarian
                is also my current supplier of humanely sourced eggs, from her
                family's cherished pet ducks.

                Check out the Vegecat supplements and recipes. They've been around for
                some 25 years. (Evolution is more suspect. I don't trust them.)

                Read the book titled _Obligate Carnivore_ by Jed Gillen for some
                insights on what "obligate carnivore" actually means.

                NO I AM ***NOT*** being cruel to my cats. You're entitled to your
                philosophical opinion about what cats "should" be eating, but you have
                absolutely no grounds for accusing me of cruelty to the animals who
                are in my care.

                Jim Sinclair  jisincla@...
                www.jimsinclair.org
                http://moosepuppy.petfinder.com
              • Cathy Mack
                Jim, I would be interested in knowing what was your decision in feeding a vegatarian diet to your kitties. Was it a distrust of commercially made cat food?
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 3, 2011
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                  Jim,

                  I would be interested in knowing what was your decision in feeding a vegatarian
                  diet to your kitties. Was it a distrust of commercially made cat food? Was it
                  that a vegan diet was superior to a meat diet? I feed my kitties a raw meat
                  diet (grass feed meats, organic fowls) because I tried to replicate their
                  natural diets without all the fillers. I too test my cats on a regular basis to
                  make sure the taurine levels are adequate and I don't need to supplement with
                  any vitamins/minerals because I'm using the whole animal (tissue, organs, muscle
                  and bones). In all my research this is the best I can do for my kitties, but
                  I'm open to your opinion on a vegan diet.

                  Thanks,
                  Cathy




                  ________________________________
                  From: Jim Sinclair <jisincla@...>
                  To: Westgold <westgold@...>
                  Cc: Toby Jones <tobythelegend@...>; feline-heart
                  <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Fri, December 2, 2011 1:21:17 PM
                  Subject: Re: [FH] Re: New Diagnosis & Concerns


                  Yes, my cats are on a vegetarian diet. Yes, I did plenty of research.
                  I also have at this point more than 25 years of personal experience
                  preparing and feeding a vegetarian (mostly vegan but when I can get
                  reliably humanely sourced eggs, I do) diet to cats. Yes, my
                  veterinarian is fully aware of their diet and is attentive to any
                  indication of diet-related issues with their health. My veterinarian
                  is also my current supplier of humanely sourced eggs, from her
                  family's cherished pet ducks.

                  Check out the Vegecat supplements and recipes. They've been around for
                  some 25 years. (Evolution is more suspect. I don't trust them.)

                  Read the book titled _Obligate Carnivore_ by Jed Gillen for some
                  insights on what "obligate carnivore" actually means.

                  NO I AM ***NOT*** being cruel to my cats. You're entitled to your
                  philosophical opinion about what cats "should" be eating, but you have
                  absolutely no grounds for accusing me of cruelty to the animals who
                  are in my care.

                  Jim Sinclair jisincla@...
                  www.jimsinclair.org
                  http://moosepuppy.petfinder.com



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Banu Korgul
                  I have done a lot of research about diet of healthy cats too. I am astonished to hear that they can be fed vegetarian diets... Can you please provide anything
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 3, 2011
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                    I have done a lot of research about diet of healthy cats too. I am astonished to hear that they can be fed vegetarian diets... Can you please provide anything (other then the book) like a vet university article, a conference note etc so that I can read...
                    At first it sounds absolutely ridiculous and cruel, I must admit that was my first reaction too, but again I really want to ask some resources to see if I miss anything.
                    I am almost becoming a vegetarian myself but I would never deprive my animals from what they need. And that is a almost 90 percent meat... As least that is the common info for decades...

                    Sent via Banu's iPod touch

                    On Dec 3, 2011, at 18:35, Cathy Mack <cathymack@...> wrote:

                    > Jim,
                    >
                    > I would be interested in knowing what was your decision in feeding a vegatarian
                    > diet to your kitties. Was it a distrust of commercially made cat food? Was it
                    > that a vegan diet was superior to a meat diet? I feed my kitties a raw meat
                    > diet (grass feed meats, organic fowls) because I tried to replicate their
                    > natural diets without all the fillers. I too test my cats on a regular basis to
                    > make sure the taurine levels are adequate and I don't need to supplement with
                    > any vitamins/minerals because I'm using the whole animal (tissue, organs, muscle
                    > and bones). In all my research this is the best I can do for my kitties, but
                    > I'm open to your opinion on a vegan diet.
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    > Cathy
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Jim Sinclair <jisincla@...>
                    > To: Westgold <westgold@...>
                    > Cc: Toby Jones <tobythelegend@...>; feline-heart
                    > <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Fri, December 2, 2011 1:21:17 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [FH] Re: New Diagnosis & Concerns
                    >
                    > Yes, my cats are on a vegetarian diet. Yes, I did plenty of research.
                    > I also have at this point more than 25 years of personal experience
                    > preparing and feeding a vegetarian (mostly vegan but when I can get
                    > reliably humanely sourced eggs, I do) diet to cats. Yes, my
                    > veterinarian is fully aware of their diet and is attentive to any
                    > indication of diet-related issues with their health. My veterinarian
                    > is also my current supplier of humanely sourced eggs, from her
                    > family's cherished pet ducks.
                    >
                    > Check out the Vegecat supplements and recipes. They've been around for
                    > some 25 years. (Evolution is more suspect. I don't trust them.)
                    >
                    > Read the book titled _Obligate Carnivore_ by Jed Gillen for some
                    > insights on what "obligate carnivore" actually means.
                    >
                    > NO I AM ***NOT*** being cruel to my cats. You're entitled to your
                    > philosophical opinion about what cats "should" be eating, but you have
                    > absolutely no grounds for accusing me of cruelty to the animals who
                    > are in my care.
                    >
                    > Jim Sinclair jisincla@...
                    > www.jimsinclair.org
                    > http://moosepuppy.petfinder.com
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • acrocat@rocketmail.com
                    Hi Zoe Sorry your post is getting derailed into a diet debate :) Are you in NYC or upstate NY? I know some vets in NYC. ... My beef with giving cats a ton of
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 5, 2011
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                      Hi Zoe

                      Sorry your post is getting derailed into a diet debate :) Are you in NYC or upstate NY? I know some vets in NYC.

                      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "acidsoda" <r17re@...> wrote:
                      > I spoke to the cardiologist via phone(have not met yet and will not until the 3 mo. re-echo) about supplement and dietary change, about CoQ10, fish oil, l-carnitine and taurine. The only supplement my cardiologist advised was the fish oil, Omega 3 Fatty Acid 400mg a day and geriatric food for a low sodium diet.

                      My beef with giving cats a ton of supplements is that cats dislike being pilled, and also can become averse to eating "tainted" food if you try to mix the supplements in. I think the battle to give pills should be over lifesaving meds like the lasix and enalapril, not over a supplement that is not directly indicated.

                      The research on CoQ10 is in humans, who generally have different types of heart disease than cats. If you can get your cat to eat it without an issue, fine, but if you are having to forcibily pill him, no way. There are plenty of people who have given CoQ10 and had their cats do poorly (not due to the CoQ10, just because of their heart condition); there are a few who will pipe up and say that CoQ10 has saved their cat. It's your call if you want to give it a try.

                      > Also, does anyone have good suggestion as to how to give precisely 400mg of fish oil omega3? I've looked up on Amazon and have only seen ones like fish oil 1000mg with 300mg omega3 in gel form.

                      I don't think your cardiologist meant to assign you a precise amount. The range for cats is wide, so if you give 350 or 450 I think you're safe ... You can ask the cardiologist when you meet her, but as it wasn't prescribed she didn't feel it was essential (I assume). Getting a liquid gelatin capsule into a cat is a chore, and having to puncture it and put it in the food is also a chore, so I'd get a liquid one and start with just a drop in the food and work your way up. I have heard of a few cats who love the taste and are happy to have it in their food, but most need to get used to it bit by bit.

                      > I know cats don't tend to overwork themselves and will adjust to what their body can take, but is it possible that he doesn't? Should their exercise be under a certain amount?

                      If he's running around to the point that he's panting or fainting, I would be concerned that he was overworking himself. If he gets the zoomies late at night and makes a loop through the dining room and living room, I wouldn't worry about it. Some cats are way too find of the feather toy or laser light and will over-exert themselves so I'd stay away from anything that is too irresistible. He can play with his toys on his own but shouldn't be incited to exert himself, does that make sense?

                      > Does anyone know if their sodium levels are appropriate for HCM cats? I plan on writing the companies but am also going to shop this weekend for geriatric food to be safe.

                      You need to call the company (number on the bag) and ask for the % sodium on a *dry matter basis*. It should be less than 0.5. Most high quality foods are lower-sodium, actually, but I've found that some fish based foods are more salty (not sure why).

                      > Sorry my post is so long and rambly and full of question marks and everywhere.

                      Write all of the rambly posts and questions that you want :) Keep in mind that if you reply on the web, you need to change the drop down box so it goes to the group rather than the individual.

                      Take care
                      Adriann
                    • ERIC LEE
                      You are scaring me. I have been giving my little one Cardiostrength for 6 months now. It is a supplement that has COQ10 among other things. The reviews say
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 5, 2011
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                        You are scaring me. I have been giving my little one Cardiostrength for 6 months now. It is a supplement that has COQ10 among other things. The reviews say people think it helped their babies.



                        ________________________________
                        From: "acrocat@..." <acrocat@...>
                        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:22 AM
                        Subject: [FH] Re: New Diagnosis & Concerns


                         
                        Hi Zoe

                        Sorry your post is getting derailed into a diet debate :) Are you in NYC or upstate NY? I know some vets in NYC.

                        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "acidsoda" <r17re@...> wrote:
                        > I spoke to the cardiologist via phone(have not met yet and will not until the 3 mo. re-echo) about supplement and dietary change, about CoQ10, fish oil, l-carnitine and taurine. The only supplement my cardiologist advised was the fish oil, Omega 3 Fatty Acid 400mg a day and geriatric food for a low sodium diet.

                        My beef with giving cats a ton of supplements is that cats dislike being pilled, and also can become averse to eating "tainted" food if you try to mix the supplements in. I think the battle to give pills should be over lifesaving meds like the lasix and enalapril, not over a supplement that is not directly indicated.

                        The research on CoQ10 is in humans, who generally have different types of heart disease than cats. If you can get your cat to eat it without an issue, fine, but if you are having to forcibily pill him, no way. There are plenty of people who have given CoQ10 and had their cats do poorly (not due to the CoQ10, just because of their heart condition); there are a few who will pipe up and say that CoQ10 has saved their cat. It's your call if you want to give it a try.

                        > Also, does anyone have good suggestion as to how to give precisely 400mg of fish oil omega3? I've looked up on Amazon and have only seen ones like fish oil 1000mg with 300mg omega3 in gel form.

                        I don't think your cardiologist meant to assign you a precise amount. The range for cats is wide, so if you give 350 or 450 I think you're safe ... You can ask the cardiologist when you meet her, but as it wasn't prescribed she didn't feel it was essential (I assume). Getting a liquid gelatin capsule into a cat is a chore, and having to puncture it and put it in the food is also a chore, so I'd get a liquid one and start with just a drop in the food and work your way up. I have heard of a few cats who love the taste and are happy to have it in their food, but most need to get used to it bit by bit.

                        > I know cats don't tend to overwork themselves and will adjust to what their body can take, but is it possible that he doesn't? Should their exercise be under a certain amount?

                        If he's running around to the point that he's panting or fainting, I would be concerned that he was overworking himself. If he gets the zoomies late at night and makes a loop through the dining room and living room, I wouldn't worry about it. Some cats are way too find of the feather toy or laser light and will over-exert themselves so I'd stay away from anything that is too irresistible. He can play with his toys on his own but shouldn't be incited to exert himself, does that make sense?

                        > Does anyone know if their sodium levels are appropriate for HCM cats? I plan on writing the companies but am also going to shop this weekend for geriatric food to be safe.

                        You need to call the company (number on the bag) and ask for the % sodium on a *dry matter basis*. It should be less than 0.5. Most high quality foods are lower-sodium, actually, but I've found that some fish based foods are more salty (not sure why).

                        > Sorry my post is so long and rambly and full of question marks and everywhere.

                        Write all of the rambly posts and questions that you want :) Keep in mind that if you reply on the web, you need to change the drop down box so it goes to the group rather than the individual.

                        Take care
                        Adriann




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • acrocat@rocketmail.com
                        Eric ... ? Is this directed at me? What s scary? No one has said CoQ10 is bad.
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 5, 2011
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                          Eric

                          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, ERIC LEE <pray4animals@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > You are scaring me. I have been giving my little one Cardiostrength for 6 months now. It is a supplement that has COQ10 among other things. The reviews say people think it helped their babies.


                          ? Is this directed at me? What's scary? No one has said CoQ10 is bad.
                        • Carol
                          I know that there is no official research on cats, but I do know from my own experience that it does help, and I ve spoken with my own cat s cardiologist and
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 5, 2011
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                            I know that there is no "official" research on cats, but I do know from my own experience that it does help, and I've spoken with my own cat's cardiologist and several other holistic veterinarians, and they all have approved of using coQ10 for cats. Many vets just aren't familiar with it, and even if you give them info about it, they're not usually going to agree with the benefits of it, because it's just out of their realm of education.

                            I've been giving my cats and dogs with heart problems coQ10 for over 20 years, and I do believe it helped keep them healthier longer than had I not used it.

                            Carol and the gang



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: ERIC LEE <pray4animals@...>
                            To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Mon, Dec 5, 2011 10:13 am
                            Subject: Re: [FH] Re: New Diagnosis & Concerns





                            You are scaring me. I have been giving my little one Cardiostrength for 6 months now. It is a supplement that has COQ10 among other things. The reviews say people think it helped their babies.








                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Judi Levens
                            I agree Carol...I believe that Max survived 3.5 years after dx because he was getting supplements like CQ10 and nattokinasse. My husband and I now take it
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 5, 2011
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                              I agree Carol...I believe that Max survived 3.5 years after dx because he was getting supplements like CQ10 and nattokinasse. My husband and I now take it also! Don't worry Eric, you are helping your baby...good luck...Judi and Angel Max




                              To: pray4animals@...; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                              From: carolroar@...
                              Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 14:11:42 -0500
                              Subject: Re: [FH] Re: New Diagnosis & Concerns




























                              I know that there is no "official" research on cats, but I do know from my own experience that it does help, and I've spoken with my own cat's cardiologist and several other holistic veterinarians, and they all have approved of using coQ10 for cats. Many vets just aren't familiar with it, and even if you give them info about it, they're not usually going to agree with the benefits of it, because it's just out of their realm of education.



                              I've been giving my cats and dogs with heart problems coQ10 for over 20 years, and I do believe it helped keep them healthier longer than had I not used it.



                              Carol and the gang



                              -----Original Message-----

                              From: ERIC LEE <pray4animals@...>

                              To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>

                              Sent: Mon, Dec 5, 2011 10:13 am

                              Subject: Re: [FH] Re: New Diagnosis & Concerns



                              You are scaring me. I have been giving my little one Cardiostrength for 6 months now. It is a supplement that has COQ10 among other things. The reviews say people think it helped their babies.



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • acidsoda
                              Thanks Adriann :) ... I don t mind at all. I find most posts here informative. ... Yes, I live in NYC! Please do let me know who you recommend. I want to get
                              Message 14 of 16 , Dec 5, 2011
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                                Thanks Adriann :)


                                --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "acrocat@..." <acrocat@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Zoe
                                >
                                > Sorry your post is getting derailed into a diet debate :)


                                I don't mind at all. I find most posts here informative.


                                >Are you in NYC or upstate NY? I know some vets in NYC.


                                Yes, I live in NYC! Please do let me know who you recommend. I want to get my other cat check out as well for noisy breathing.


                                >
                                > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "acidsoda" <r17re@> wrote:
                                > My beef with giving cats a ton of supplements is that cats dislike being pilled, and also can become averse to eating "tainted" food if you try to mix the supplements in. I think the battle to give pills should be over lifesaving meds like the lasix and enalapril, not over a supplement that is not directly indicated.


                                I give pills with treats and Ziggy is already disliking it and getting suspicious about every treat in my hand. I blame it on Plavix. Now I'm moving onto disassociating treats with Plavix.


                                >
                                > The research on CoQ10 is in humans, who generally have different types of heart disease than cats. If you can get your cat to eat it without an issue, fine, but if you are having to forcibily pill him, no way. There are plenty of people who have given CoQ10 and had their cats do poorly (not due to the CoQ10, just because of their heart condition); there are a few who will pipe up and say that CoQ10 has saved their cat. It's your call if you want to give it a try.
                                >
                                > I don't think your cardiologist meant to assign you a precise amount. The range for cats is wide, so if you give 350 or 450 I think you're safe ... You can ask the cardiologist when you meet her, but as it wasn't prescribed she didn't feel it was essential (I assume). Getting a liquid gelatin capsule into a cat is a chore, and having to puncture it and put it in the food is also a chore, so I'd get a liquid one and start with just a drop in the food and work your way up. I have heard of a few cats who love the taste and are happy to have it in their food, but most need to get used to it bit by bit.


                                Neither my cardiologist or regular vet think I need to care for Ziggy any differently. Every changes that I made for him post ER were the result of me bringing up questions or concerns or req for advice, neither of them took initiative on offering one. I guess in a way it's also for my own peace of mind to know that I am doing the what I could or provide something extra that might give the possibility of better health in long run.

                                The amount the cardiologist gave was based on Ziggy's weight(He's a big boy :). I'm glad I haven't decided what brand to get him yet because I would probably had put all 400mg in there in one day. I will definitely remember to start bit by bit when I do.

                                >
                                > You need to call the company (number on the bag) and ask for the % sodium on a *dry matter basis*. It should be less than 0.5. Most high quality foods are lower-sodium, actually, but I've found that some fish based foods are more salty (not sure why).


                                I don't mean to sound dumb, do I ask for % sodium on a dry matter basis for both wet and dry food?


                                >
                                > Write all of the rambly posts and questions that you want :) Keep in mind that if you reply on the web, you need to change the drop down box so it goes to the group rather than the individual.


                                Haha, yep, I did not know how to reply to group! I hope I am doing this one right.


                                >
                                > Take care
                                > Adriann
                                >
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