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Aslan's lab results - need advise

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  • Banu Korgul
    Hello All,   Aslan is a neuthered male cat I rescued in mid 2009. His owner had died and Aslan was abondened. We do not know how long he lived on the streets
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 2, 2011
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      Hello All,
       
      Aslan is a neuthered male cat I rescued in mid 2009. His owner had died and Aslan was abondened. We do not know how long he lived on the streets but I guess not much. Since I found him in mid 2009 until the end of 2009 Aslan was at my vets roaming free indoors and outdoors. I was uneasy with that and took him home (indoors) December 2009. Since Dec 2009 he is with me and getting the best of everything may it be treatment, food, vet care, love...
       
      Aslan is tought to be above 10yrs old maybe even above 12yrs. He has bad teeth, but again that can be due to bad looking after. He has dark spots near his chin, which I guess is a sign of old age.
       
      He was diagnosed with CRF on January 2010. His crea was 2.1 when the upper limit was 2.0.
       
      After 4 months, in April 2010 he had an epilepsy episode. (about 10 seconds with convulsions, drooling etc and then he was normal) Bloodwork showed that his urea (BUN) has increased and his liver numbers were up. We treated his liver and the liver numbers came down. The epilepsy never recurred so we tought the reason was either he had gas built up or his liver reacting. The vet listened to his lungs and Aslan did not have fluid in his lungs then. He had an abdominal ultrasound confirming the CRF and there were no other issues.
       
      Since then, in regular bloodworks, his liver numbers were up again twice, and it was again treated and returned to normal. His crea increased over time. 2.4 and then 3. His BUN was normal.
       
      Then the horror began. In June 2011, we were at the vets for a regular bloodwork, the vet took blood and the results showed that his crea had increased to 3.1. She also said 'his lungs were not good'. At the time I was busy with the increased crea and did not know much about the importance of the lung issue. Next day we went to the vet again, for the treatment of his lungs. That night, at home, he started to breath like a dog. Labored breathing continued and he sat in sphenx position, he seemed tired etc. In the morning the vet came and gave diueritics, IV and other drugs. In 2 days he started to feel better. I have been told that this was expected due to his old age and there was no treatment to cure it, and there was nothing to do. Of course I could not stop. I dig further and learned that there is a doctor who specializes in cardiac ultrasound. After he started feeling ok, the doctor came and did a cardiac ultrasound and he also looked at the other
      organs. Aslan was diagnosed with Left Dilated Cardiomyopathy. He was given:
      These days he had respiratory problems and first the vet told me it may be gas, so I gave meds to soften the stool until he had diarrea. That did not solve the problem so we gave an injection of 10mg Desal (Lasix). That helped but after a day he started breathing bad again.
         day  night
      Enalapril (ACE Inhibitor) 3mg 3mg
      Desal (Lasix) 5mg 5mg
      Digoxin 1 drop 1 drop
      Vetmedin 1.25mg 1.25mg
      Vit E - 100 IU
       
      Today he woke up and he was lifting his front right paw. We realized that it is cold to the touch. Luckily, the vet was supposed to come in for the long expected bloodwork. She took a look and said it was a circulatory problem. Then she drew blood from the other paw, but the vein was ruptured and he started bleeding inside his arm. Excuse my english, I don't know how to explain correctly. It is like we have bloodwork and the needle are is filled with blood from the inside. Anyway, because of that she could not take enough blood to look at a lot of values. The results for 8 parameters are as follows.
         Results Ref Range
      ALKP 30 U/L 14-111
      ALT 216 U/L 12-130
      BUN 42 mg/dL 16-36
      CK 186 U/L 0-314
      CREA 3.7 mg/dL 0.8-2.4
      GLU 106 mg/dL 71-159
      LDH 484 U/L 0-798
      TP 8.2 g/dL 5.7-8.9
       
      We called the cardiac doc.
      1) He did not increase his heart drugs.
      2) He said to increase his Lasix, or maybe give it in injection form when he had respiratory problems.
      3) He also told me to give 15 min oxygen TWICE a day when he had respiratory problems. I was unable to find an oxygen tent in here and read online that you can make a tent out of a cat carrier. He explained the same thing.4) He said to give 30 ml of IV , FOUR times a day (total 120 ml) for 2-4 weeks, to TRY to bring the crea down.
       
      Thats it.
       
      But there is nothing that is being done now. Because the vet said that his arm with the ruptured vein should heal before she can start IV.
      Again there is nothing being done for the right arm that is cold to the touch.
       
      What do you think?
      Please advise? Is the arm a big problem? I have read painful sacral thrombosis but Aslan's is in the front paw, and he is not shouting with pain, he is using his paw, strecthing it, licking it, lifting it up, but he does not seem in high pain. Should I rub it with my hands? Should I use warm water? Please keep in mind that he gets nervous with the slightest intervention and thats what I am trying to avoid.
       
      Regards and huge thanks.
      Banu

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Carol
      Hi Banu, I think you should give his paw and arm some gentle massage. Make sure your hands are warm. Massage will increase the circulation. Use a warm
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 3, 2011
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        Hi Banu,

        I think you should give his paw and arm some gentle massage. Make sure your hands are warm. Massage will increase the circulation. Use a warm blanket or towel just out of the dryer for him to lay on, warp around his paw and leg. You need to keep him warm and increase the circulation to his paws.

        His kidney values are elevated but aren't too terribly high. I know the numbers are scarey, but try to concentrate on how he's feeling and acting rather than the numers. Our Misty who is 20 1/2 years old, she also has heart and kidney issues, also just had her bloodwork done and her BUN went from 46 to 68 now, and her creatinine was 2.7 and now is 3.5. And though her numbers are much higher, she still is feeling okay.

        We give her fluids twice a day, 50ml each time. Giving them in more than one session is much easier on the heart.

        There is a supplement called Azodyl, that is supposed to help the kidneys function better. Here's some info on that.
        http://www.kibowbiotech.com/azodyl.php
        http://www.vetoquinolusa.com/CoreProducts/CardioNephrologyRenal/Azodyl.html

        Here are pictures of the chamber I made from a carrier. We use it to nebulize Misty for upper respiratory problems. You can use it for an oxygen chamber too. http://carolsnebulizerchamber.shutterfly.com/26

        I hope some of this helps.

        hugs,
        Carol and the gang







        -----Original Message-----
        From: Banu Korgul <banukorgul@...>





        Today he woke up and he was lifting his front right paw. We realized that it is cold to the touch. Luckily, the vet was supposed to come in for the long expected bloodwork. She took a look and said it was a circulatory problem. Then she drew blood from the other paw, but the vein was ruptured and he started bleeding inside his arm. Excuse my english, I don't know how to explain correctly. It is like we have bloodwork and the needle are is filled with blood from the inside. Anyway, because of that she could not take enough blood to look at a lot of values. The results for 8 parameters are as follows.

        Results Ref Range
        ALKP 30 U/L 14-111
        ALT 216 U/L 12-130
        BUN 42 mg/dL 16-36
        CK 186 U/L 0-314
        CREA 3.7 mg/dL 0.8-2.4
        GLU 106 mg/dL 71-159
        LDH 484 U/L 0-798
        TP 8.2 g/dL 5.7-8.9

        We called the cardiac doc.
        1) He did not increase his heart drugs.
        2) He said to increase his Lasix, or maybe give it in injection form when he had respiratory problems.
        3) He also told me to give 15 min oxygen TWICE a day when he had respiratory problems. I was unable to find an oxygen tent in here and read online that you can make a tent out of a cat carrier. He explained the same thing.4) He said to give 30 ml of IV , FOUR times a day (total 120 ml) for 2-4 weeks, to TRY to bring the crea down.

        Thats it.

        But there is nothing that is being done now. Because the vet said that his arm with the ruptured vein should heal before she can start IV.
        Again there is nothing being done for the right arm that is cold to the touch.

        What do you think?
        Please advise? Is the arm a big problem? I have read painful sacral thrombosis but Aslan's is in the front paw, and he is not shouting with pain, he is using his paw, strecthing it, licking it, lifting it up, but he does not seem in high pain. Should I rub it with my hands? Should I use warm water? Please keep in mind that he gets nervous with the slightest intervention and thats what I am trying to avoid.

        Regards and huge thanks.
        Banu




        ___




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Carol
        Ooops.. I meant WRAP around his paw and leg... not warp. ... I think you should give his paw and arm some gentle massage. Make sure your hands are warm.
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 3, 2011
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          Ooops.. I meant WRAP around his paw and leg... not warp.



          >>



          I think you should give his paw and arm some gentle massage. Make sure your hands are warm. Massage will increase the circulation. Use a warm blanket or towel just out of the dryer for him to lay on, warp around his paw and leg. You need to keep him warm and increase the circulation to his paws.
          >>









          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • elfinmyst@aol.com
          Hi If Aslan has thrown a clot to his paw, he needs treatment for it. Usually it s the back legs that are affected but if the paw was cold to touch, then he
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 3, 2011
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            Hi

            If Aslan has thrown a clot to his paw, he needs treatment for it. Usually
            it's the back legs that are affected but if the paw was cold to touch, then
            he may have got a blood clot in his paw. I see he is on aspirin, but there
            is also plavix to prevent clots. There is an alternative medicine as well
            called nattokinase and that dissolves clots that are already present. I`m
            not sure if it can be given at the same time as aspirin though.

            Lyn

            _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Banu Korgul
            Thank you for your email Aslan is not on asprin, though The vet said its poisonous İ know, it is given, it helps, we just need to be careful... (By the way,
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 3, 2011
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              Thank you for your email
              Aslan is not on asprin, though
              The vet said its poisonous
              İ know, it is given, it helps, we just need to be careful...

              (By the way, İ thought asprin is to prevent cloths not to dissolve them) ??? Would it help to dissolve the clot??

              İts been 1,5 days since he is been like this.
              İ have read that it may dissolve on its own, is there a time limit on that??

              Thanks



              Sent via Banu's iPod touch

              On Nov 3, 2011, at 12:10, elfinmyst@... wrote:

              > Hi
              >
              > If Aslan has thrown a clot to his paw, he needs treatment for it. Usually
              > it's the back legs that are affected but if the paw was cold to touch, then
              > he may have got a blood clot in his paw. I see he is on aspirin, but there
              > is also plavix to prevent clots. There is an alternative medicine as well
              > called nattokinase and that dissolves clots that are already present. I`m
              > not sure if it can be given at the same time as aspirin though.
              >
              > Lyn
              >
              > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Carol
              It s possible that a clot may be reabsorbed, but it can take a long time, especially if the patient is not on something to help with the process, like heparin
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 3, 2011
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                It's possible that a clot may be reabsorbed, but it can take a long time, especially if the patient is not on something to help with the process, like heparin (an anticoagulant), aspirin (anticoagulant) or plavix (anti-platelet). Aspirin won't dissolve a clot, it just thins the blood so that clots are less likely to form. None of these things dissolve the clots. Nattikinase is said to "digest" a clot. Nattokinase is an enzyme that breaks down and digests the clot.

                Heparin is an anticoagulant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heparin
                Heparin acts as an anticoagulant, preventing the formation of clots and extension of existing clots within the blood. While heparin does not break down clots that have already formed (unlike tissue plasminogen activator), it allows the body's natural clot lysis mechanisms to work normally to break down clots that have formed.

                Plavix is an antiplatelet: http://www.plavix.com/Index.aspx
                PLAVIX helps keep platelets in the blood from sticking together and forming clots—the direct cause of most heart attacks and strokes.

                If it was me, I would give Aslan the Nattokinase, like we did with Misty. We give her one 36mg/1440FU (fibrinolytic units) twice a day with food. This is the one we get. http://www.vitacost.com/NutriCology-Nattozyme
                You must buy one that has the vitamin K removed, as vit. K makes blood clot.

                Carol and the gang


                Angel Snowball *5/10/91 to 1/1/10*
                and the gang
                http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/









                -----Original Message-----
                From: Banu Korgul <banukorgul@...>





                Thank you for your email
                Aslan is not on asprin, though
                The vet said its poisonous
                İ know, it is given, it helps, we just need to be careful...

                (By the way, İ thought asprin is to prevent cloths not to dissolve them) ??? Would it help to dissolve the clot??

                İts been 1,5 days since he is been like this.
                İ have read that it may dissolve on its own, is there a time limit on that??

                Thanks

                Sent via Banu's iPod touch










                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • elfinmyst@aol.com
                Hi You re right, aspirin and plavix work to prevent clots. The only thing which actually can help when they throw a clot is heparin from the vet or nattokinase
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 4, 2011
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                  Hi

                  You're right, aspirin and plavix work to prevent clots. The only thing
                  which actually can help when they throw a clot is heparin from the vet or
                  nattokinase which is a food supplement. I use the brand Doctor's best as you
                  need brand with the vitamin K removed. It actually breaks up clots that are
                  present. How is Aslan's paw this morning?

                  Lyn

                  _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Banu Korgul
                  Hello All,   Thank you for the advise you send. (keeping his paw warm, massaging his paw, natto...)   After the last vet exam and bloodwork, he continued to
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 15, 2011
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                    Hello All,
                     
                    Thank you for the advise you send. (keeping his paw warm, massaging his paw, natto...)
                     
                    After the last vet exam and bloodwork, he continued to act tired a few days more.
                    The vet said she prefered not to give fluids (against the cardio vet's advise of 30 ml x 4 times a day) in order for Aslan to relax and not to get stressed.
                    So in the mean time, I continued the meds (except vetmedin, the shipment is delayed).
                    After a few days he seemed very well. Purring...Breathing ok, walks and talks etc..
                    Paw was still cold.
                     
                    Then almost 10 days after the vet exam, I received the natto I ordered from US.
                    His front paw was the one with the problem. (cold to the touch, he streches it as if to dissolve the numbness...)
                    The day nato arrived his paw seemed warm. So I did not give him any yet.
                     
                    BUT on Monday and Tuesday, he seemed a bit weird. His breathing seems good, his appetite is good as always but no purring, the voice got shallow, seems down, a few coughs again, and the hind legs are a bit weak.
                    the most mysterious thing is that although his breathing looks ok, he makes weird sounds. I dont know how to imitate but I think it is as if a pig snorts.. We do that when our nose and throat is full, because of flu or smthg. Do you know why he does that?
                     
                    What do I do?
                     
                    _ 14 days ago was his last bloodwork. The vet had ruptured the vein and could not get the amount necessary to test for the things I wanted to test. (thyroid, phosporous, glucose etc...) Should I do it again? Or is it too soon for another bloodwork?
                     
                    _ Maybe he is dehydrated due to the constant lasix intake of 10mg a day. Should I stop this med and restart if heavy breathing starts after a few days? This is prob a Feline Heart question. Is it ok to let the lungs go full and then drain them w lasix, or is it ideal to give the med everyday to prevent the lungs from getting full?
                     
                    _ Should I start the IV? (he is an old heart kitty) If yes, can it be substituted with Subq. I think he will have the catheder so I think he will tolerate a slight pinch of subQ s better. 
                     
                    note: Aslan's full history and labs and med schedule is below.
                     
                    Thank you
                    I am grateful for you guys.
                    He would not be living if you werent here. I posted only a few times, but I read almost every post and learned a lot.
                     
                    Banu & Aslan
                     
                     
                    --- Forwarded Message -----
                    From: Banu Korgul <banukorgul@...>
                    To: crf <Feline-CRF-Support@yahoogroups.com>; fh <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 11:11 PM
                    Subject: Aslan's lab results - need advise

                    Hello All,

                    >Aslan is a neuthered male cat I rescued in mid 2009. His owner had died and Aslan was abondened. We do not know how long he lived on the streets but I guess not much. Since I found him in mid 2009 until the end of 2009 Aslan was at my vets roaming free indoors and outdoors. I was uneasy with that and took him home (indoors) December 2009. Since Dec 2009 he is with me and getting the best of everything may it be treatment, food, vet care, love...

                    >Aslan is tought to be above 10yrs old maybe even above 12yrs. He has bad teeth, but again that can be due to bad looking after. He has dark spots near his chin, which I guess is a sign of old age.

                    >He was diagnosed with CRF on January 2010. His crea was 2.1 when the upper limit was 2.0.

                    >After 4 months, in April 2010 he had an epilepsy episode. (about 10 seconds with convulsions, drooling etc and then he was normal) Bloodwork showed that his urea (BUN) has increased and his liver numbers were up. We treated his liver and the liver numbers came down. The epilepsy never recurred so we tought the reason was either he had gas built up or his liver reacting. The vet listened to his lungs and Aslan did not have fluid in his lungs then. He had an abdominal ultrasound confirming the CRF and there were no other issues.

                    >Since then, in regular bloodworks, his liver numbers were up again twice, and it was again treated and returned to normal. His crea increased over time. 2.4 and then 3. His BUN was normal.

                    >Then the horror began. In June 2011, we were at the vets for a regular bloodwork, the vet took blood and the results showed that his crea had increased to 3.1. She also said 'his lungs were not good'. At the time I was busy with the increased crea and did not know much about the importance of the lung issue. Next day we went to the vet again, for the treatment of his lungs. That night, at home, he started to breath like a dog. Labored breathing continued and he sat in sphenx position, he seemed tired etc. In the morning the vet came and gave diueritics, IV and other drugs. In 2 days he started to feel better. I have been told that this was expected due to his old age and there was no treatment to cure it, and there was nothing to do. Of course I could not stop. I dig further and learned that there is a doctor who specializes in cardiac ultrasound. After he started feeling ok, the doctor came and did a cardiac ultrasound and he also looked at the other
                    organs. Aslan was diagnosed with Left Dilated Cardiomyopathy. He was given:
                    >These days he had respiratory problems and first the vet told me it may be gas, so I gave meds to soften the stool until he had diarrea. That did not solve the problem so we gave an injection of 10mg Desal (Lasix). That helped but after a day he started breathing bad again.
                    >   day  night
                    >Enalapril (ACE Inhibitor) 3mg 3mg
                    >Desal (Lasix) 5mg 5mg
                    >Digoxin 1 drop 1 drop
                    >Vetmedin 1.25mg 1.25mg
                    >Vit E - 100 IU

                    >Today he woke up and he was lifting his front right paw. We realized that it is cold to the touch. Luckily, the vet was supposed to come in for the long expected bloodwork. She took a look and said it was a circulatory problem. Then she drew blood from the other paw, but the vein was ruptured and he started bleeding inside his arm. Excuse my english, I don't know how to explain correctly. It is like we have bloodwork and the needle are is filled with blood from the inside. Anyway, because of that she could not take enough blood to look at a lot of values. The results for 8 parameters are as follows.
                    >   Results Ref Range
                    >ALKP 30 U/L 14-111
                    >ALT 216 U/L 12-130
                    >BUN 42 mg/dL 16-36
                    >CK 186 U/L 0-314
                    >CREA 3.7 mg/dL 0.8-2.4
                    >GLU 106 mg/dL 71-159
                    >LDH 484 U/L 0-798
                    >TP 8.2 g/dL 5.7-8.9

                    >We called the cardiac doc.
                    >1) He did not increase his heart drugs.
                    >2) He said to increase his Lasix, or maybe give it in injection form when he had respiratory problems.
                    >3) He also told me to give 15 min oxygen TWICE a day when he had respiratory problems. I was unable to find an oxygen tent in here and read online that you can make a tent out of a cat carrier. He explained the same thing.4) He said to give 30 ml of IV , FOUR times a day (total 120 ml) for 2-4 weeks, to TRY to bring the crea down.

                    >Thats it.
                    >
                    >But there is nothing that is being done now. Because the vet said that his arm with the ruptured vein should heal before she can start IV.
                    >Again there is nothing being done for the right arm that is cold to the touch.

                    >What do you think?
                    >Please advise? Is the arm a big problem? I have read painful sacral thrombosis but Aslan's is in the front paw, and he is not shouting with pain, he is using his paw, strecthing it, licking it, lifting it up, but he does not seem in high pain. Should I rub it with my hands? Should I use warm water? Please keep in mind that he gets nervous with the slightest intervention and thats what I am trying to avoid.

                    >Regards and huge thanks.
                    >Banu

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Toby Jones
                    The breathing issue makes me think CHF, but the weak back legs makes me think dehydration. I would be concerned about starting lasix again without having his
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 15, 2011
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                      The breathing issue makes me think CHF, but the weak back legs makes me think dehydration. I would be concerned about starting lasix again without having his kidney values checked. Is he sitting in sphynx position? Does he look like he has lost weight?

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Banu Korgul
                      I am sorry , did I write too long and confused you? because I said he does not have any breathing problems right now, so he is not in CHF and he is already
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 15, 2011
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                        I am sorry , did I write too long and confused you? because I said he does not have any breathing problems right now, so he is not in CHF and he is already on lasix.  
                         
                        :(


                        >________________________________
                        >From: Toby Jones <tobythelegend@...>
                        >To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                        >Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 5:39 AM
                        >Subject: [FH] Re: Fw: Aslan's lab results - need advise
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        >
                        >The breathing issue makes me think CHF, but the weak back legs makes me think dehydration. I would be concerned about starting lasix again without having his kidney values checked. Is he sitting in sphynx position? Does he look like he has lost weight?
                        >
                        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • tobythelegend
                        You said: BUT on Monday and Tuesday, he seemed a bit weird. His breathing seems good, his appetite is good as always but no purring, the voice got shallow,
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 16, 2011
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                          You said:

                          "BUT on Monday and Tuesday, he seemed a bit weird. His breathing seems good, his appetite is good as always but no purring, the voice got shallow, seems down, a few coughs again, and the hind legs are a bit weak. the most mysterious thing is that although his breathing looks ok, he makes weird sounds. I dont know how to imitate but I think it is as if a pig snorts."

                          If he is snuffling, snorting, coughing, from what I went through with Eli I would guess Pulmonary Edema caused by CHF. Again, I only have experience with my one cat going through it. His breathing rate was ok, but it was crackling and it sounded like he had a cold. Just my two cents.

                          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Banu Korgul <banukorgul@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I am sorry , did I write too long and confused you? because I said he does not have any breathing problems right now, so he is not in CHF and he is already on lasix.  
                          >  
                          > :(
                          >
                        • Banu Korgul
                          No no i agree, even with No breathing problems, he has fluid in his lungs. But, he is not in chf. Do i use it wrong? İ thought of chf when he is getting worse
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 16, 2011
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                            No no i agree, even with No breathing problems, he has fluid in his lungs.
                            But, he is not in chf. Do i use it wrong? İ thought of chf when he is getting worse like bpm of above 37-40 ...

                            Anyway İ understand what you mean,

                            Thank you fir the input again,
                            Btw, i rarely get replies to my posts...
                            That makes me even more grateful for each response


                            Sent via Banu's iPod touch

                            On Nov 17, 2011, at 3:31, "tobythelegend" <tobythelegend@...> wrote:

                            > You said:
                            >
                            > "BUT on Monday and Tuesday, he seemed a bit weird. His breathing seems good, his appetite is good as always but no purring, the voice got shallow, seems down, a few coughs again, and the hind legs are a bit weak. the most mysterious thing is that although his breathing looks ok, he makes weird sounds. I dont know how to imitate but I think it is as if a pig snorts."
                            >
                            > If he is snuffling, snorting, coughing, from what I went through with Eli I would guess Pulmonary Edema caused by CHF. Again, I only have experience with my one cat going through it. His breathing rate was ok, but it was crackling and it sounded like he had a cold. Just my two cents.
                            >
                            > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Banu Korgul <banukorgul@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I am sorry , did I write too long and confused you? because I said he does not have any breathing problems right now, so he is not in CHF and he is already on lasix. Â
                            > > Â
                            > > :(
                            > >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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