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Re: Need some brainstorming here...

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  • tobythelegend
    Thanks for the feedback Adriann and Judi! I examined Eli s nail beds this morning. All had the same pinkness and looked good. He didn t seem to mind either,
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 26, 2011
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      Thanks for the feedback Adriann and Judi!

      I examined Eli's nail beds this morning. All had the same pinkness and looked good. He didn't seem to mind either, no cries of protest or pain, and no struggling. I observed him this morning and he is walking better on that leg than he has since he threw his first clot, putting almost his full weight on the paw. Yet, after three steps in a row (using the paw) he flicked that paw each time. Really strange.

      He is still washing the foot and leg, extending it when he is sleeping, and he even tries to scratch his face with it (his accuracy/control has decreased since his clots, so he mostly just thumps himself in the face with it).

      We are keeping a close eye on him. We are encouraged because he is walking so well on the leg when he chooses to use it, but baffled and slightly worried by the flicking and the hopping on three legs that he does from time to time.

      Thank you for your time,

      Ryan & Eli

      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "acrocat@..." <acrocat@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Ryan
      >
      > Check out the color of his nail beds (extend the nail, the nail bed should be pink). It's possible that he had a wee clot go to one of his toes. These can be quite painful. In good light, carefully examine the nail beds and look for any subtle difference in the toe pads.
      >
      > It's also possible that he has neuropathy from nerve damage to the leg. This means he could have a pins & needles feeling, or just a weird feeling when he touches that foot. Is he still washing it, sitting on his butt and extending the leg, pulling on the toes, etc. like cats normally do?
      >
      >
      > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "tobythelegend" <tobythelegend@> wrote:
      >
    • Westgold
      Is there any chance he might have undiagnosed diabetes? Has he been tested recently? Diabetes that isn t properly controlled can cause neuropathy in the back
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 26, 2011
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        Is there any chance he might have undiagnosed diabetes? Has he been tested recently? Diabetes that isn't properly controlled can cause neuropathy in the back legs. Does he drink a lot and/or urinate a lot? There are other signs too -- ask your vet if this is a possibility for him. I think the shaking of the paw after he steps on it is like us shaking our arm after it "falls asleep" -- we shake it to try to get rid of the tingling.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: tobythelegend
        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 12:10 PM
        Subject: [FH] Re: Need some brainstorming here...



        Thanks for the feedback Adriann and Judi!

        I examined Eli's nail beds this morning. All had the same pinkness and looked good. He didn't seem to mind either, no cries of protest or pain, and no struggling. I observed him this morning and he is walking better on that leg than he has since he threw his first clot, putting almost his full weight on the paw. Yet, after three steps in a row (using the paw) he flicked that paw each time. Really strange.

        He is still washing the foot and leg, extending it when he is sleeping, and he even tries to scratch his face with it (his accuracy/control has decreased since his clots, so he mostly just thumps himself in the face with it).

        We are keeping a close eye on him. We are encouraged because he is walking so well on the leg when he chooses to use it, but baffled and slightly worried by the flicking and the hopping on three legs that he does from time to time.

        Thank you for your time,

        Ryan & Eli

        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "acrocat@..." <acrocat@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Ryan
        >
        > Check out the color of his nail beds (extend the nail, the nail bed should be pink). It's possible that he had a wee clot go to one of his toes. These can be quite painful. In good light, carefully examine the nail beds and look for any subtle difference in the toe pads.
        >
        > It's also possible that he has neuropathy from nerve damage to the leg. This means he could have a pins & needles feeling, or just a weird feeling when he touches that foot. Is he still washing it, sitting on his butt and extending the leg, pulling on the toes, etc. like cats normally do?
        >
        >
        > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "tobythelegend" <tobythelegend@> wrote:
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • MAUREEN FOGG
        I wish i knew the answer too as Yuki is always shaking her front paws, has for months since her first CHF episode.  Now I noticed her shaking a back paw. I
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 26, 2011
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          I wish i knew the answer too as Yuki is always shaking her front paws, has for
          months since her first CHF episode.  Now I noticed her shaking a back paw. I
          think Im going to try to give more natto (but she hates the big pills).

          Maureen and Yuki

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • MAUREEN FOGG
          I got this info at: http://www.natto-nattokinase.com/herbal-remedies/natto-nattokinase/nattokinase-benefits It has to do with nattokinase and clot formation...
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 27, 2011
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            I got this info at:
            http://www.natto-nattokinase.com/herbal-remedies/natto-nattokinase/nattokinase-benefits

            It has to do with nattokinase and clot formation...


            Thrombolytic Effect: Nattokinase dissolves existing thrombus (clotting) by
            dissolving the fibrin that binds platelets together. Nattō acts much like
            plasmin, the only enzyme produced by the human body that breaks down fibrin. As
            we age, our plasmin production decreases, making Nattō supplementation the ideal
            replacement. Nattokinase also enhances the body’s own production of plasmin and
            other blood clotting agents, including urokinase (endogenous)( Sumi, H. et al.
            “A novel fibrinolytic enzyme (Nattokinase) in the vegetable cheese Nattō….”
            Experientia 1987, 43:1110-11).

            Blood Pressure: Nattokinase has been shown to lower blood pressure levels.
            People in Japan have been eating Nattō for this purpose for hundreds of years.
            Studies have shown it lowers blood pressure by inhibiting angiotensin converting
            enzyme (ACE). Ace causes blood vessels to narrow and blood pressure to rise.
            Nattokinase’s ability to inhibit ACE, therefore, has a lowering effect on blood
            pressure (Maruyama M, Sumi H. Effect of Nattō Diet on Blood Pressure. JTTAS,
            1995.).
            Circulation Enhancement: Nattokinase has been shown to aid in blood flow by
            assisting in the clearing of circulation. It has also been shown to help prevent
            the hardening and narrowing of arteries (Sumi H. Healthy Microbe "Bacillus
            Nattō". Japan Bio Science Laboratory Co. Ltd.).
            Other Benefits: Nattokinase has been shown to augment bone density, aid joint
            pain, assist in the management of migraine headaches and alleviate exercise
            induced joint and muscle pain. In ancient times the food Nattō was also used for
            its antibacterial effect to prevent cholera, typhoid and dysentery (Sumi H.
            Healthy Microbe "Bacillus Nattō". Japan Bio Science Laboratory Co. Ltd.).
            Thrombotic clogging of the cerebral blood vessels has been identified as a major
            factor leading to senile dementia. Other thrombotic diseases include cerebral
            hemorrhage, cerebral infarction, cardiac infarction, angina pectoris and
            hemorrhoids. The amazing thrombolytic effect of Nattokinase holds much promise
            for those suffering from these conditions.



            ________________________________
            From: "harris.rose@..." <harris.rose@...>
            To: MAUREEN FOGG <maureen.fogg@...>
            Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 1:31:37 PM
            Subject: [FH] Re: Need some brainstorming here...

            Tell me what natto is. Thanks.
            L-Danyielle


            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, MAUREEN FOGG <maureen.fogg@...> wrote:
            >
            > I wish i knew the answer too as Yuki is always shaking her front paws, has for
            > months since her first CHF episode.  Now I noticed her shaking a back paw. I
            > think Im going to try to give more natto (but she hates the big pills).
            >
            > Maureen and Yuki
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Judi Levens
            How interesting...I was sure it was working for Max. Now I d like to take it...did it give any guidelines for the amt in humans? thanks...Judi and Angel Max
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 27, 2011
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              How interesting...I was sure it was working for Max.
              Now I'd like to take it...did it give any guidelines for the amt in humans? thanks...Judi and Angel Max and lovebug Tucker







              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              From: maureen.fogg@...
              Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:47:18 -0700
              Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Need some brainstorming here...






              I got this info at:
              http://www.natto-nattokinase.com/herbal-remedies/natto-nattokinase/nattokinase-benefits

              It has to do with nattokinase and clot formation...

              Thrombolytic Effect: Nattokinase dissolves existing thrombus (clotting) by
              dissolving the fibrin that binds platelets together. Natt� acts much like
              plasmin, the only enzyme produced by the human body that breaks down fibrin. As
              we age, our plasmin production decreases, making Natt� supplementation the ideal
              replacement. Nattokinase also enhances the body's own production of plasmin and
              other blood clotting agents, including urokinase (endogenous)( Sumi, H. et al.
              "A novel fibrinolytic enzyme (Nattokinase) in the vegetable cheese Natt�.."
              Experientia 1987, 43:1110-11).

              Blood Pressure: Nattokinase has been shown to lower blood pressure levels.
              People in Japan have been eating Natt� for this purpose for hundreds of years.
              Studies have shown it lowers blood pressure by inhibiting angiotensin converting
              enzyme (ACE). Ace causes blood vessels to narrow and blood pressure to rise.
              Nattokinase's ability to inhibit ACE, therefore, has a lowering effect on blood
              pressure (Maruyama M, Sumi H. Effect of Natt� Diet on Blood Pressure. JTTAS,
              1995.).
              Circulation Enhancement: Nattokinase has been shown to aid in blood flow by
              assisting in the clearing of circulation. It has also been shown to help prevent
              the hardening and narrowing of arteries (Sumi H. Healthy Microbe "Bacillus
              Natt�". Japan Bio Science Laboratory Co. Ltd.).
              Other Benefits: Nattokinase has been shown to augment bone density, aid joint
              pain, assist in the management of migraine headaches and alleviate exercise
              induced joint and muscle pain. In ancient times the food Natt� was also used for
              its antibacterial effect to prevent cholera, typhoid and dysentery (Sumi H.
              Healthy Microbe "Bacillus Natt�". Japan Bio Science Laboratory Co. Ltd.).
              Thrombotic clogging of the cerebral blood vessels has been identified as a major
              factor leading to senile dementia. Other thrombotic diseases include cerebral
              hemorrhage, cerebral infarction, cardiac infarction, angina pectoris and
              hemorrhoids. The amazing thrombolytic effect of Nattokinase holds much promise
              for those suffering from these conditions.

              ________________________________
              From: "harris.rose@..." <harris.rose@...>
              To: MAUREEN FOGG <maureen.fogg@...>
              Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 1:31:37 PM
              Subject: [FH] Re: Need some brainstorming here...

              Tell me what natto is. Thanks.
              L-Danyielle

              --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, MAUREEN FOGG <maureen.fogg@...> wrote:
              >
              > I wish i knew the answer too as Yuki is always shaking her front paws, has for
              > months since her first CHF episode. Now I noticed her shaking a back paw. I
              > think Im going to try to give more natto (but she hates the big pills).
              >
              > Maureen and Yuki
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Westgold
              I posted about this before --- last year sometime Dr Oz had health secrets from Japan on his show. He told us how most Japanese people EAT natto everyday, and
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 27, 2011
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                I posted about this before --- last year sometime Dr Oz had health secrets
                from Japan on his show. He told us how most Japanese people EAT natto
                everyday, and he believes that is one of the reasons why they are so
                healthy. I'm sure that if you searched his site, you could find this
                info -- http://www.doctoroz.com --

                apparently it's an acquired taste! But the pills might be a great thing for
                us to add --
                what do you guys think??


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...>
                To: <maureen.fogg@...>; <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:51 PM
                Subject: RE: [FH] Re: Need some brainstorming here...



                How interesting...I was sure it was working for Max.
                Now I'd like to take it...did it give any guidelines for the amt in humans?
                thanks...Judi and Angel Max and lovebug Tucker







                To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                From: maureen.fogg@...
                Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:47:18 -0700
                Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Need some brainstorming here...






                I got this info at:
                http://www.natto-nattokinase.com/herbal-remedies/natto-nattokinase/nattokinase-benefits

                It has to do with nattokinase and clot formation...

                Thrombolytic Effect: Nattokinase dissolves existing thrombus (clotting) by
                dissolving the fibrin that binds platelets together. Nattò acts much like
                plasmin, the only enzyme produced by the human body that breaks down fibrin.
                As
                we age, our plasmin production decreases, making Nattò supplementation the
                ideal
                replacement. Nattokinase also enhances the body's own production of plasmin
                and
                other blood clotting agents, including urokinase (endogenous)( Sumi, H. et
                al.
                "A novel fibrinolytic enzyme (Nattokinase) in the vegetable cheese Nattò.."
                Experientia 1987, 43:1110-11).

                Blood Pressure: Nattokinase has been shown to lower blood pressure levels.
                People in Japan have been eating Nattò for this purpose for hundreds of
                years.
                Studies have shown it lowers blood pressure by inhibiting angiotensin
                converting
                enzyme (ACE). Ace causes blood vessels to narrow and blood pressure to rise.
                Nattokinase's ability to inhibit ACE, therefore, has a lowering effect on
                blood
                pressure (Maruyama M, Sumi H. Effect of Nattò Diet on Blood Pressure. JTTAS,
                1995.).
                Circulation Enhancement: Nattokinase has been shown to aid in blood flow by
                assisting in the clearing of circulation. It has also been shown to help
                prevent
                the hardening and narrowing of arteries (Sumi H. Healthy Microbe "Bacillus
                Nattò". Japan Bio Science Laboratory Co. Ltd.).
                Other Benefits: Nattokinase has been shown to augment bone density, aid
                joint
                pain, assist in the management of migraine headaches and alleviate exercise
                induced joint and muscle pain. In ancient times the food Nattò was also used
                for
                its antibacterial effect to prevent cholera, typhoid and dysentery (Sumi H.
                Healthy Microbe "Bacillus Nattò". Japan Bio Science Laboratory Co. Ltd.).
                Thrombotic clogging of the cerebral blood vessels has been identified as a
                major
                factor leading to senile dementia. Other thrombotic diseases include
                cerebral
                hemorrhage, cerebral infarction, cardiac infarction, angina pectoris and
                hemorrhoids. The amazing thrombolytic effect of Nattokinase holds much
                promise
                for those suffering from these conditions.

                ________________________________
                From: "harris.rose@..." <harris.rose@...>
                To: MAUREEN FOGG <maureen.fogg@...>
                Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 1:31:37 PM
                Subject: [FH] Re: Need some brainstorming here...

                Tell me what natto is. Thanks.
                L-Danyielle

                --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, MAUREEN FOGG <maureen.fogg@...> wrote:
                >
                > I wish i knew the answer too as Yuki is always shaking her front paws, has
                > for
                > months since her first CHF episode. Now I noticed her shaking a back paw.
                > I
                > think Im going to try to give more natto (but she hates the big pills).
                >
                > Maureen and Yuki
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                ------------------------------------

                Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                feline-heart@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
              • MAUREEN FOGG
                It does sound great - just grain of salt -  this website is selling it! ;   Nattokinase Dosage InformationNattō has been consumed as a breakfast delicacy
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 27, 2011
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                  It does sound great - just grain of salt -  this website is selling it! ;>
                   
                  Nattokinase Dosage InformationNattō has been consumed as a breakfast delicacy by
                  the Japanese for over 1000 years. To the Western palate, however, pure Nattō is
                  not very appealing. Therefore Nattokinase supplementation by way of oral softgel
                  capsules is the preferred method of ingestion. Dr. Sumi’s original research
                  reported that Nattō has an average of 40 fibrinolytic units per gram
                  (fibrinolytic units are a determination of how much fibrin a specific amount of
                  the enzyme breaks up in a test tube) . Human clinical trials have used dosages
                  of between 50 and 200 grams of Nattō per day. This would equate to between 2,000
                  and 8,000 fibrinolytic units (Sumi H. Interview With Doctor of Medicine Hiroyuki
                  Sumi. Japan Bio Science Laboratory Co. Ltd.).

                  Pure, isolated Nattokinase supplements contain 20,000 fibrinolytic units per
                  gram. One 36 mg softgel taken twice per day would supply an adequate amount as a
                  preventative. Patients who are actively combating thrombus should be guided by
                  their medical professional’s dosage recommendation.




                  ________________________________
                  From: Judi Levens <casaobelisco@...>
                  To: maureen.fogg@...; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 2:51:29 PM
                  Subject: RE: [FH] Re: Need some brainstorming here...


                  How interesting...I was sure it was working for Max.
                  Now I'd like to take it...did it give any guidelines for the amt in humans? 
                  thanks...Judi and Angel Max and lovebug Tucker







                  To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  From: maureen.fogg@...
                  Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:47:18 -0700
                  Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Need some brainstorming here...


                   



                  I got this info at:
                  http://www.natto-nattokinase.com/herbal-remedies/natto-nattokinase/nattokinase-benefits


                  It has to do with nattokinase and clot formation...

                  Thrombolytic Effect: Nattokinase dissolves existing thrombus (clotting) by
                  dissolving the fibrin that binds platelets together. Nattò acts much like
                  plasmin, the only enzyme produced by the human body that breaks down fibrin. As
                  we age, our plasmin production decreases, making Nattò supplementation the ideal

                  replacement. Nattokinase also enhances the body's own production of plasmin and
                  other blood clotting agents, including urokinase (endogenous)( Sumi, H. et al.
                  "A novel fibrinolytic enzyme (Nattokinase) in the vegetable cheese Nattò.."
                  Experientia 1987, 43:1110-11).

                  Blood Pressure: Nattokinase has been shown to lower blood pressure levels.
                  People in Japan have been eating Nattò for this purpose for hundreds of years.
                  Studies have shown it lowers blood pressure by inhibiting angiotensin converting

                  enzyme (ACE). Ace causes blood vessels to narrow and blood pressure to rise.
                  Nattokinase's ability to inhibit ACE, therefore, has a lowering effect on blood
                  pressure (Maruyama M, Sumi H. Effect of Nattò Diet on Blood Pressure. JTTAS,
                  1995.).
                  Circulation Enhancement: Nattokinase has been shown to aid in blood flow by
                  assisting in the clearing of circulation. It has also been shown to help prevent

                  the hardening and narrowing of arteries (Sumi H. Healthy Microbe "Bacillus
                  Nattò". Japan Bio Science Laboratory Co. Ltd.).
                  Other Benefits: Nattokinase has been shown to augment bone density, aid joint
                  pain, assist in the management of migraine headaches and alleviate exercise
                  induced joint and muscle pain. In ancient times the food Nattò was also used for

                  its antibacterial effect to prevent cholera, typhoid and dysentery (Sumi H.
                  Healthy Microbe "Bacillus Nattò". Japan Bio Science Laboratory Co. Ltd.).
                  Thrombotic clogging of the cerebral blood vessels has been identified as a major

                  factor leading to senile dementia. Other thrombotic diseases include cerebral
                  hemorrhage, cerebral infarction, cardiac infarction, angina pectoris and
                  hemorrhoids. The amazing thrombolytic effect of Nattokinase holds much promise
                  for those suffering from these conditions.

                  ________________________________
                  From: "harris.rose@..." <harris.rose@...>
                  To: MAUREEN FOGG <maureen.fogg@...>
                  Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 1:31:37 PM
                  Subject: [FH] Re: Need some brainstorming here...

                  Tell me what natto is. Thanks.
                  L-Danyielle

                  --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, MAUREEN FOGG <maureen.fogg@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I wish i knew the answer too as Yuki is always shaking her front paws, has for
                  > months since her first CHF episode.  Now I noticed her shaking a back paw. I
                  > think Im going to try to give more natto (but she hates the big pills).
                  >
                  > Maureen and Yuki
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                         

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  ------------------------------------

                  Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply will
                  benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                  feline-heart@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • acrocat@rocketmail.com
                  Hi Ryan ... This is good news because if an animal loses sensation in a limb or digit, they sometimes target it inappropriately (gruesomely). Seems like he
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 28, 2011
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                    Hi Ryan

                    --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "tobythelegend" <tobythelegend@...> wrote:
                    > He is still washing the foot and leg, extending it when he is sleeping, and he even tries to scratch his face with it

                    This is good news because if an animal loses sensation in a limb or digit, they sometimes 'target' it inappropriately (gruesomely). Seems like he knows that it's still his foot!

                    If this keeps up, you can ask your vet about a drug called gabapentin. I know he's on a lot of drugs already, so you may not want to take on another, but if the foot really bothers him then gabapentin may help. It is a drug that is specifically used for neurogenic pain and discomfort. You would have to have it compounded because it only comes in capsules and the capsules are too high of a dose for a cat. It's worth looking into if the leg continues to trouble him.

                    Best of luck and keep us posted
                    Adriann
                  • tobythelegend
                    Adriann, Thank you for the input! I was around for most of the day yesterday and kept an eye on him. He really doesn t seem to be bothered by it except for
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 28, 2011
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                      Adriann,

                      Thank you for the input! I was around for most of the day yesterday and kept an eye on him. He really doesn't seem to be bothered by it except for that occasional flicking. I saw him cleaning that foot and chewing his nails about three times yesterday. He looked happy and content. He was racing around, and when he wants to go really fast he just tucks up that leg. When he slows down he uses it, and he actually has improved so much. I'm very happy with how he's doing overall... I know that the prognosis for a cat that throws clots is very poor, so I feel that every day with my little guy is a blessing. I will keep an eye on how he is using that leg.

                      Ryan & Eli
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