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Re: [FH] OT: Bladder stones

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  • Westgold
    hi ---- you must take away ALL dry food immediately -- that is really messing him up. Try the Royal Canin or medi-cal feline s/o canned -- and add extra water
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 1, 2011
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      hi ---- you must take away ALL dry food immediately -- that is really messing him up. Try the Royal Canin or medi-cal feline s/o canned -- and add extra water to it to make it kinda soupy -- they really like it and it will help. The dry food is sucking water out of him, when you need to put more water in him. All-canned will also help him lose some weight. But some cats are just prone to crystals. I know someone on another list whose cat had this same problem, and they did an operation on him, and he has been completely cured. I will pass your email along to her -- she can advise you. Better to do the operation just once than to continue to have to have him unblocked -- but you need to go somewhere where they have a lot of experience doing this procedure, so they will be fast with it -- and an expert keeping him asleep. He also will need fluids the whole night before and constant monitoring during -- not every clinic can provide all this. You need to take every precaution. Where do you live, someone may be able to give you the name of a good vet who can go the surgery.

      take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: elfinmyst@...
      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 12:42 PM
      Subject: [FH] OT: Bladder stones



      Hi all

      Can anyone help?

      Toby is a member of this group as he has a grade 3 dynamic murmur and some
      valve dysfunction. He takes valerian and skullcap, cystaid daily and has a
      problem with bladder gravel. He has blocked on several occasions but the
      last 3 times have been within a month and the gravel blocks in his penis so
      he has to go in as an emergency for an anaesthetic.

      We have tried the dried urinary food and are currently trying wet. I know
      this is off topic but does anyone know a group or have any advice? He's not
      stressed, but overweight (7kg) and he's 5 years old. He is going to0 have
      to have an operation to shorten the urethra as a last resort, but surgery in
      a heart cat is always risky.

      Thanks

      Lyn

      _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

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    • Carol
      Hi Lyn, Yes... go to this group. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/catswithflutd/ My Puddy has the somewhat the same problems. He actually did have to have
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 1, 2011
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        Hi Lyn,

        Yes... go to this group.
        http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/catswithflutd/

        My Puddy has the somewhat the same problems. He actually did have to have that surgery (perineal urethrostomy). Here's more information about it. http://www.petplace.com/cats/perineal-urethrostomy-pu/page1.aspx

        When you say "bladder gravel", do you mean struvite crystals or calcium oxalate stones? If they're struvites, those can be dissolved either with diet (an acidic diet like raw meat or no grain/no carb foods) or sometimes using the supplement DL-Methionine to acidify the urine is helpful. Personally, I used the DL-Methionine for Puddy, but it didn't do much. It wasn't until I changed him onto a specific raw diet that he started having a more acidic PH of around 6.5. He was on raw when he developed the crystals, but the one I was feeding him had too many fruits and veggies (carbs) in it. Carbs, fruits and veggies make the urine alkaline and the alkaline urine forms struvite crystals. That's just one of the causes, but I think it's the most common one.

        Anyway, the flutd group can help you out. They were very helpful when Puddy was going through this.

        Carol and Angel Snowball *5/10/91 to 1/1/10*



        and the gang
        http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/







        and the gang
        http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/






        -----Original Message-----
        From: elfinmyst elfinmyst@...




        Toby is a member of this group as he has a grade 3 dynamic murmur and some
        valve dysfunction. He takes valerian and skullcap, cystaid daily and has a
        problem with bladder gravel. He has blocked on several occasions but the
        last 3 times have been within a month and the gravel blocks in his penis so
        he has to go in as an emergency for an anaesthetic.





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      • acrocat@rocketmail.com
        Water, water, water. Dilution is the solution in this case :) As others posted, no more dry food, ever, and pour a little water over his wet food as well.
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 1, 2011
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          Water, water, water. Dilution is the solution in this case :) As others posted, no more dry food, ever, and pour a little water over his wet food as well. Many cats don't like it mushed into soup but some will permit you to just put water in the bowl along with the food, unmixed, and will lap it when they get to it. (I have no idea why that is ok and mushy food isn't!) I can get about 2 tablespoons in my cat's meal this way.

          You can also try to encourage drinking free water by offering a different type of bowl (some animals prefer porcelain/glass over plastic) or trying a fountain.
          Adriann
        • elfinmyst@aol.com
          Hi Adriann Thankyou so much to everyone who replied to my request for help. I joined the FLUTD group and the PU (PU-Feline(Perineal Urethrostomy) group so
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 2, 2011
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            Hi Adriann

            Thankyou so much to everyone who replied to my request for help. I joined
            the FLUTD group and the PU (PU-Feline(Perineal Urethrostomy) group so
            should be excellent advice and support for Toby there. He's on wet food which is
            for his problem and trying to lose weight. Toby isn't stressed, yes we're
            multi cat but he's so laid back and floppy and an absolute baby. The kids
            carry him around upside down with purring and claw clicking. He's so good
            natured.

            I`ll keep everyone up to date on how the surgery goes. Obviously it's
            complicated by his heart problem but at least we know he's recovered well from
            anaesthetics before. Every time he blocks is an emergency and luckily we can
            spot symptoms really quickly.

            Thankyou again for all the really helpful replies and advice :)

            Lyn

            _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


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          • Westgold
            hi -- it was that diet dry food that was keeping Toby fat. Cats need almost all protein, very low carbs.... and diet dry foods contain even MORE carbs than
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 2, 2011
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              hi -- it was that diet dry food that was keeping Toby fat. Cats need almost all protein, very low carbs.... and diet dry foods contain even MORE carbs than regular dry food. Now that he is on all-canned (with extra water added), you can let him have as much as he wants and he will still lose weight. It was just the carbs keeping him fat. Once he has the operation, you might be able to switch him to other canned foods, you'll have to see. Judi's Fibber kept producing lots of crystals even after his operation, although he never blocked again. But if Toby's were mostly caused by the dry food, you might be able to switch to Fancy Feast or Friskies after the operation, that remains to be seen. Just have a good talk with the surgeon before the operation. Cats with "special needs" should be kept in the hospital on fluids all night long before the operation, and perhap also during the operation. You need ALL the fancy monitoring equipment. But my vet told me that as long as the surgeon knows the exact condition of the cat going in, he can work faster and take more care. When a kitty dies of heart problems during an operation, it is usually because nobody KNEW he had a heart condition. If they KNOW, everything is so much better, they are prepared. I got my Tigger successfully neutered at 6 months, even tho he has HCM and I was terrified of the operation. My vet said he NEVER worked so fast!! But you also want a correct job done, what Toby is having is more complicated than just a neuter -- so do have a talk with the surgeon -- you don't want him to work so fast that he misses something and then you have to do it again......
              we'll all be praying for him!
              give him a kiss from us!
              Michelle, Susie Q & Tigger Too
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Elfinmyst@...
              To: westgold@...
              Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 6:03 AM
              Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Bladder stones


              Hi Michelle

              Toby is off all dried food now and on the royal canin urinary wet. He definitely needs to lose weight and was on the low calorie urinary dry for a few months. Thankyou for forwarding my mail to your friend, she replied this morning with a lot of help and advice. I can choose to have the operation at my vets or the local animal hospital, both are experienced with the operation and heart cases. I really want to try all options before surgery but Toby is really running out of options.

              Thankyou again.

              :) Lyn

              www.myfurkids.co.uk

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            • Diana Anderson
              I would just like to point out that there are some cats who will refuse to eat wet food no matter how many tricks are employed. I think we all know or have
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 2, 2011
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                I would just like to point out that there are some cats who will refuse to eat wet food no matter how many tricks are employed. I think we all know or have owned such a kitty at some point. I have a tortie girl now who wont go near wet food and believe me, this girl lives to eat.
                 
                And one cannot simply "starve" them into switching foods, cats dont play that game.
                 
                If you cant convince yours to eat canned food then I would advise you let him eat what he likes and provide as much water as possible. Having lived with a cat who would barely eat one can of Fancy Feast a day has taught me that it's most important that they eat whatever they want even if it's not the best quality. I was over the moon on those rare days Happy ate two cans.
                 
                My angel boy Happy loved his "Cat It" brand  fountain, it did encourage him to drink more water. In addition to the fountain he would go to the sink and insist we fill up a bowl with fresh water and hold it up to him (yes we were trained well)
                 
                Best of luck
                 
                Diana

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              • acrocat@rocketmail.com
                A feline vet, Dr. Lisa Pierson, has a site with a lot of info and specifically information on nutrition and helping dry-food addicts move on to wet food. Her
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 2, 2011
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                  A feline vet, Dr. Lisa Pierson, has a site with a lot of info and specifically information on nutrition and helping dry-food addicts move on to wet food. Her info is here:
                  http://catinfo.org/?link=felineobesity .
                  Adriann
                • John Gerace
                  My 5 year old HCM cat Maya has had many serious issues since December such as not eating, developing lameness, seizures. Mostly she comes back from them all, I
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 4, 2011
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                    My 5 year old HCM cat Maya has had many serious issues since December such
                    as not eating, developing lameness, seizures. Mostly she comes back from
                    them all, I have some pills the vet gave to stimulate her appetite that work
                    very well. But now nothing seems to work as she can not keep any food down.
                    Are there meds to make her keep her food down (anti nausea maybe)? (although
                    it is sooo hard to get her to take her meds, when I give her the lasix
                    pill, which she refuses, she ends up having a fit and I feel guilty for
                    causing it) She can handle small small amounts of tuna when she shows an
                    interest in eating,but if i bring her food (tuna) before she wants it she
                    throws up clear vomit along with the food. she hasn't had a "full" meal in a
                    couple days, today she just sits in a sphinx position staring at the floor
                    and jumps suddenly at noises as if she was dozing off and got startled. I am
                    thinking this is it for her but she has come so close to death before then
                    bounces back. At first the vet and myself are overjoyed but now I cant help
                    but think this is cruel and I should just end her discomfort. my vet wont
                    usually euthanize an animal until it is on its last legs- and there is
                    another vet in town that seems to be very anxious to end a life- all you
                    gotta do is ask.
                    thanks for any advice
                    john


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                  • Carol
                    Hi John, I m sorry Maya is having such a hard time. My Angel Snowball did the same thing. She had a terrible time with spewing all the time. One thing that we
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 4, 2011
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                      Hi John,

                      I'm sorry Maya is having such a hard time. My Angel Snowball did the same thing. She had a terrible time with spewing all the time.

                      One thing that we did was gave her Ondansetron injections. It's an anti-nausea medication that is used for people who get chemo to keep them from throwing up. It worked wonders for Snowball. She went from throwing up every day to maybe only once a week, then it was only a couple times a month.

                      You need a prescription for the medicine and some places (like your local pharmacy) the needles. I buy our Ondansetron (brand name is Zofran), from Thrivingpets.com. If you buy this at a pharmacy they sometimes charge up to $200 a vial! Crazy! So I only get it from Thrivingpets.com. I get our needles from our local pharmacy or online. The needles can be anywhere from $20 to $25 a box. These BD Ultra-Fine II Insulin Syringes are the only ones I'll use. They're very tiny and don't hurt the cats as far as I can tell.

                      Ondansetron Injectible, Sandoz, 4mg / 2ml, Case of 10 Vials, $24.95
                      http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/ondansetron-zofran.html

                      BD Ultra-Fine II Short Needle Insulin Syringes-1/2cc 31G 5/16" -90ct
                      http://www.otcwholesale.com/bd-28290.html You don't need a prescription for the needles from this site.

                      I hope this helps. I'd talk to your vet about getting the prescription for the Ondansetron. At least you can try it and see if it helps.

                      hugs,
                      Carol and Angel Snowball
                      and the gang
                      http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/


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                    • elfinmyst@aol.com
                      Hi John If Maya is in the sphinx position it is likely she is in heart failure and has fluid on her lungs. It is absolutely vital to deal with this first.
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 5, 2011
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                        Hi John

                        If Maya is in the sphinx position it is likely she is in heart failure and
                        has fluid on her lungs. It is absolutely vital to deal with this first.
                        Intravenous lasix is helpful and works quickly in an emergency situation and
                        there are other diuretics that can be used in combination with lasix, such
                        as spironolactone.

                        If she has fluid on her lungs, she won't eat. It is worth a vet trip to
                        listen to her lungs and confirm this as it is an emergency situation. Also if
                        she isn't eating, she'll need a taurine supplement which is essential to
                        cats who aren't on canned/dried catfood. Lack of taurine can produce a form
                        of cardiomyopathy.

                        As for stimulating her appetite I`ve no experience of this, but others will
                        have. Get her lungs checked out and see if that is causing the problem

                        Lyn:)


                        _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


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                      • C.R.
                        hi John, A way to be more sure of what s going on is to listen to her lungs. Get a stethoscope and listen for any kind of crackling or popping sounds. That s
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 5, 2011
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                          hi John,

                          A way to be more sure of what's going on is to listen to her lungs. Get a stethoscope and listen for any kind of crackling or popping sounds. That's usually indicative of fluid. Also take her heart rate. Listen to how many times her heart beats in a minute (take it for 15 seconds and multiply by 4). A heart rate over about 32 can be the start of fluid. If it's way higher than that, it can either be fluid or pain. The heart rate goes up with pain too.

                          Sitting in that sphinx position can also be related to nausea caused from various things, including CRF. All my CRF kitties would lay that way when they had upset stomachs.

                          It would be a good idea to get her to the vet for an xray to rule out the fluid thing. If that's going on, you don't want to wait.

                          hugs,
                          Carol and Angel Snowball
                          and the gang

                          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@... wrote:
                          >
                          > If Maya is in the sphinx position it is likely she is in heart failure and has fluid on her lungs.
                        • tobythelegend
                          There are definitely good anti-nausea medications out there. I would try wrapping your cats pills in pill-pockets before you force pill her. We tried
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jun 5, 2011
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                            There are definitely good anti-nausea medications out there. I would try wrapping your cats pills in pill-pockets before you force pill her. We tried compounding medications with my cat and it lead to him losing his appetite, vomiting, etc. I tried pilling him without pill pockets and he would vomit. Wrapping about 1/3 to 1/2 a pill pocket around 1 or 2 pills keeps him from vomiting and keeps the meds down. It's worth a shot.
                          • C.R.
                            OH! I meant to say respiration here, not heart rate. The respiration (how many breaths in a minute) being over 32... The heart rate is anywhere from around
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jun 5, 2011
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                              OH! I meant to say respiration here, not heart rate. The respiration (how many breaths in a minute) being over 32...

                              The heart rate is anywhere from around 120 to 160. Both should be taken while sleeping or resting, not after having walked around or played, as both will go up from those activities.

                              Sorry! Not much sleep last night!

                              Carol and Angel Snowball
                              and the gang

                              >>
                              A heart rate over about 32 can be the start of fluid. If it's way higher than that, it can either be fluid or pain. The heart rate goes up with pain too.
                              >>
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