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Re: [feline-heart] More on Sam and clots

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  • Laura Penny
    I don t think it s included on many blood panels. I don t remember what it stands for--something like creatine phoskinase (not to be confused with creatinine).
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 1, 2001
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      I don't think it's included on many blood panels. I don't remember what it
      stands for--something like creatine phoskinase (not to be confused with
      creatinine).

      Good luck with him...

      Laura

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mellephone D'Aeriel <mellephone@...>
      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Saturday, December 01, 2001 10:07 PM
      Subject: Re: [feline-heart] More on Sam and clots


      >I don't see a CPK on his blood tests. Is it part of a
      >standard blood panel or something they have to take
      >seperate? His blood work was done within 24 hours
      >after he threw the first and second clot and only a
      >few hours before he threw the third.
      >
      >Iva
      >
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    • Jonathan Rosenberg
      ... While CPK is elevated after a clot, it is not a very reliable primary indicator. CPK can become elevated by a large number of things, many of which do not
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 1, 2001
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        -----Original Message-----
        > From: Laura Penny [mailto:lepenny@...]
        > Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 8:34 PM
        > To: heart
        > Subject: [feline-heart] More on Sam and clots

        > One way we were able to tell my Annie had been having
        > clots was because her CPK (a blood value) was way, way up.
        > First it was 1400; eventually it went up to 10,000+. I don't
        > remember the normal range, but it's well below 1400.
        >
        > The trick with the CPK is that it needs to be taken
        > within 24 hours after a clot is believed to have occurred.

        While CPK is elevated after a clot, it is not a very reliable
        primary indicator. CPK can become elevated by a large number of
        things, many of which do not indicate any medical problem at all.

        In addition to other findings (e.g., cold toes, lack of or weak
        pulse), CPK is useful in making a diagnosis.

        > Laura

        --
        JR
        Tabby (RB), Lynx (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Jet
      • Mellephone D'Aeriel
        Well Sam is still kicking. He was eating like a champ on Friday, but then come Saturday he had no interest. So I resorted to force feeding him broth, kitten
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 3, 2001
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          Well Sam is still kicking. He was eating like a champ
          on Friday, but then come Saturday he had no interest.
          So I resorted to force feeding him broth, kitten milk
          and clam juice like the vet suggested. That worked
          well for Saturday, then come Sunday evening he decided
          he no longer wanted to eat at all, and now spits it
          all back out when you try and feed him. Any advice?

          He's also developed really bad diarhea. He was
          medication for that but it gets mixed into his food
          and without his food he's not been getting it. We got
          a liquid formula to put in his mouth, but everytime we
          give it to him he vomits it right back up or spits it
          out. I'm at a loss of what to do!

          He's also developed what sounds a bit like a hacking
          cough. It has me very worried. My husband said he
          started it Sunday night when he first started spitting
          out his food. I worry my husband might have gotten
          some of the broth down into his lungs.

          Aside from all that he's still alert during most of
          the day and he loves to be petted. He moves around
          quite a bit in his 'area' and his front paw seems to
          be a bit more useful to him. He still drags it but now
          he can at least swing it forward, and I've seen him
          bend the arm. His back legs are still weak, but one is
          completely all better now. I'm scared to get my hopes
          up.

          He sees the cardiologist tomorrow at 1 PM, and they
          are also going to recheck his T4 count to see if the
          meds are helping.

          I could still use and appreciate any advice on how to
          help him.

          Iva

          __________________________________________________
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        • Jonathan Rosenberg
          ... All of these symptoms could be caused by his heart. It s very good that you re seeing the cardiologist tomorrow. ... The quick recovery in functionality
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 3, 2001
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            -----Original Message-----
            > From: Mellephone D'Aeriel [mailto:mellephone@...]
            > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 4:31 PM
            > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [feline-heart] More on Sam and clots

            > Well Sam is still kicking. He was eating like a champ
            > on Friday, but then come Saturday he had no interest.
            > So I resorted to force feeding him broth, kitten milk
            > and clam juice like the vet suggested. That worked
            > well for Saturday, then come Sunday evening he decided
            > he no longer wanted to eat at all, and now spits it
            > all back out when you try and feed him. Any advice?

            > He's also developed what sounds a bit like a hacking
            > cough. It has me very worried. My husband said he
            > started it Sunday night when he first started spitting
            > out his food. I worry my husband might have gotten
            > some of the broth down into his lungs.

            All of these symptoms could be caused by his heart. It's very
            good that you're seeing the cardiologist tomorrow.

            > Aside from all that he's still alert during most of
            > the day and he loves to be petted. He moves around
            > quite a bit in his 'area' and his front paw seems to
            > be a bit more useful to him. He still drags it but now
            > he can at least swing it forward, and I've seen him
            > bend the arm. His back legs are still weak, but one is
            > completely all better now. I'm scared to get my hopes
            > up.

            The quick recovery in functionality is a very good sign. it
            means his immune system is dealing well with the clots. I
            suspect he'll regain most of the functionality in his limbs after
            a few months.

            I think we all try to avoid getting our hopes up ... but it's
            pretty much impossible to avoid.

            > He sees the cardiologist tomorrow at 1 PM, and they
            > are also going to recheck his T4 count to see if the
            > meds are helping.

            Please let us know what you find out.

            > I could still use and appreciate any advice on how to
            > help him.

            It sounds like you're doing everything right for him. Sam is
            very lucky to have you guys for friends :-)

            Obviously, if anything obviously serious develops before tomorrow
            (e.g., difficulty breathing), you would get him to the emergency
            vet ASAP.

            > Iva

            --
            JR
            Tabby (RB), Lynx (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Jet
          • Jan
            Dear Iva, My prayers are with your little Sam. I do hope the cardiologist gives you good news. Jan http://joekopecky.homestead.com
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 3, 2001
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              Dear Iva,
              My prayers are with your little Sam. I do hope the cardiologist gives you
              good news.
              Jan

              http://joekopecky.homestead.com
              http://home.talkcity.com/earthteam2000/tonismith/index.html
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Mellephone D'Aeriel <mellephone@...>
              To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 3:30 PM
              Subject: RE: [feline-heart] More on Sam and clots


              > Well Sam is still kicking. He was eating like a champ
              > on Friday, but then come Saturday he had no interest.
              > So I resorted to force feeding him broth, kitten milk
              > and clam juice like the vet suggested. That worked
              > well for Saturday, then come Sunday evening he decided
              > he no longer wanted to eat at all, and now spits it
              > all back out when you try and feed him. Any advice?
              >
              > He's also developed really bad diarhea. He was
              > medication for that but it gets mixed into his food
              > and without his food he's not been getting it. We got
              > a liquid formula to put in his mouth, but everytime we
              > give it to him he vomits it right back up or spits it
              > out. I'm at a loss of what to do!
              >
              > He's also developed what sounds a bit like a hacking
              > cough. It has me very worried. My husband said he
              > started it Sunday night when he first started spitting
              > out his food. I worry my husband might have gotten
              > some of the broth down into his lungs.
              >
              > Aside from all that he's still alert during most of
              > the day and he loves to be petted. He moves around
              > quite a bit in his 'area' and his front paw seems to
              > be a bit more useful to him. He still drags it but now
              > he can at least swing it forward, and I've seen him
              > bend the arm. His back legs are still weak, but one is
              > completely all better now. I'm scared to get my hopes
              > up.
              >
              > He sees the cardiologist tomorrow at 1 PM, and they
              > are also going to recheck his T4 count to see if the
              > meds are helping.
              >
              > I could still use and appreciate any advice on how to
              > help him.
              >
              > Iva
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
              > http://shopping.yahoo.com
              >
              >
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              > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • VHess2000@cs.com
              You can help restore circulation and function to Sam s leg by gently massaging the leg several times a day, manually exercising the joints, and by applying, in
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 4, 2001
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                You can help restore circulation and function to Sam's leg by gently
                massaging the leg several times a day, manually exercising the joints, and by
                applying, in alternation, an ice pack and hot water bottle to the leg.
                This hot and cold stimulation forces the blood vessels to open and close.
                He'll hate the ice pack though, but this proved to do the trick when my cat
                was scheduled for a rear limb amputation, 1 month after suffering her first
                clot. Her leg, which had remained cool, limp and lifeless, rebounded after a
                couple days of this therapy. Make sure the hot water bottle/bag isn't hot
                enough to burn him, or course. Do this about 4 - 6 times a day.

                Have your cardioligist evaluate the cough. He could have aspirated food or
                fluids, but it might also be the cardiac cough that cats with HCM sometimes
                exhibit. In Kira's case it was very wet sounding, and sounded more like a
                sneeze.

                Victoria
              • Bob&Anne
                Iva, Of course you made the right decision. But, oh what a hard decision to have to make even when you know it is right. I am so sorry that Sam is no longer
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 4, 2001
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                  Iva,

                  Of course you made the right decision. But, oh what a hard decision to have to make even when you know it is right. I am so sorry that Sam is no longer with you.

                  Anne V
                  Warner Robins, GA
                  From: Mellephone D'Aeriel
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 10:17 PM
                  But then he started having a seizure.

                  The vet said he was no longer breathing on his own.
                  They thought for sure he had died, but his little
                  heart was still beating. They put him on oxygen. But
                  they checked his eyes and said chances are he had
                  brain damage. They asked if I wanted to resuscitate
                  but I said no, not if his quality of life would be
                  poor. They said it would, so I made the tough decision
                  to have him put to sleep.


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mellephone D'Aeriel
                  Thanks for all of the advice. Unfortunately things took a noticeable turn for the worse today. I took Sam to the vet at 2:30 AM because he was panting. They
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 4, 2001
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                    Thanks for all of the advice. Unfortunately things
                    took a noticeable turn for the worse today.

                    I took Sam to the vet at 2:30 AM because he was
                    panting. They put him on Oxygen and he got better. I
                    left him there overnight. My husband called the vet
                    this morning and was told that his T4 count was down
                    to a 5 and his heart was doing much better. However
                    his liver and kidney enzymes were elevated and he had
                    cancerous cells in his blood sample. They told him
                    that Sam seemed very depressed. So I went immediately
                    to the vets to be with him. I held him for an hour and
                    petted him. He purred the whole time. The good news
                    was he'd gotten control back of all of his legs and
                    was moving. He was kneading my legs and seemed very
                    content. But then he started having a seizure.

                    The vet said he was no longer breathing on his own.
                    They thought for sure he had died, but his little
                    heart was still beating. They put him on oxygen. But
                    they checked his eyes and said chances are he had
                    brain damage. They asked if I wanted to resuscitate
                    but I said no, not if his quality of life would be
                    poor. They said it would, so I made the tough decision
                    to have him put to sleep. He never stopped having
                    little seizures. I felt so guilty. But he was still
                    purring when they stopped his heart. I'm glad I got to
                    hold him while he passed.

                    I requested he be cremated so at the least I can give
                    the remains to my friend so he can say a proper
                    goodbye. And I couldn't bear the thought of him being
                    disposed of like trash. It was so hard to watch, and I
                    feel so terrible about what I did to him. I hope I
                    made the right decision. I'm just glad I got to be
                    there in the end.

                    Iva

                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
                    http://shopping.yahoo.com
                  • Jonathan Rosenberg
                    Iva, I am so sorry to hear about Sam. Please know that you did what was best for Sam. And God bless you for caring so well for this boy, even though you were
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 4, 2001
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                      Iva,

                      I am so sorry to hear about Sam. Please know that you did what
                      was best for Sam. And God bless you for caring so well for this
                      boy, even though you were watching him for a friend. Sam was so
                      very lucky to have you in his life at this time & to be able to
                      pass in your loving arms.

                      And you were blessed to have known Sam.

                      Please accept my heartfelt condolences.

                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Mellephone D'Aeriel [mailto:mellephone@...]
                      > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 5:18 PM
                      > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] More on Sam and clots
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks for all of the advice. Unfortunately things
                      > took a noticeable turn for the worse today.
                      >
                      > I took Sam to the vet at 2:30 AM because he was
                      > panting. They put him on Oxygen and he got better. I
                      > left him there overnight. My husband called the vet
                      > this morning and was told that his T4 count was down
                      > to a 5 and his heart was doing much better. However
                      > his liver and kidney enzymes were elevated and he had
                      > cancerous cells in his blood sample. They told him
                      > that Sam seemed very depressed. So I went immediately
                      > to the vets to be with him. I held him for an hour and
                      > petted him. He purred the whole time. The good news
                      > was he'd gotten control back of all of his legs and
                      > was moving. He was kneading my legs and seemed very
                      > content. But then he started having a seizure.
                      >
                      > The vet said he was no longer breathing on his own.
                      > They thought for sure he had died, but his little
                      > heart was still beating. They put him on oxygen. But
                      > they checked his eyes and said chances are he had
                      > brain damage. They asked if I wanted to resuscitate
                      > but I said no, not if his quality of life would be
                      > poor. They said it would, so I made the tough decision
                      > to have him put to sleep. He never stopped having
                      > little seizures. I felt so guilty. But he was still
                      > purring when they stopped his heart. I'm glad I got to
                      > hold him while he passed.
                      >
                      > I requested he be cremated so at the least I can give
                      > the remains to my friend so he can say a proper
                      > goodbye. And I couldn't bear the thought of him being
                      > disposed of like trash. It was so hard to watch, and I
                      > feel so terrible about what I did to him. I hope I
                      > made the right decision. I'm just glad I got to be
                      > there in the end.
                      >
                      > Iva
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
                      > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
                      > http://shopping.yahoo.com
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                    • Jan
                      Dear Iva, I m so glad you were able to be there with Sam and able to hold him in the end. I know that was a comfort for him. Do not feel bad for having him
                      Message 10 of 13 , Dec 4, 2001
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                        Dear Iva,
                        I'm so glad you were able to be there with Sam and able to hold him in the
                        end. I know that was a comfort for him. Do not feel bad for having him
                        PTS. It would have been worse for him to suffer, and it sounds like that is
                        exactly what would have happened. Sam was so lucky to have you. There are
                        so many little animals who would love to have a human who would love and
                        care for them, and make decisions for them. You were wonderful to Sam.
                        My prayers are with Sam, and with you.
                        Jan

                        http://joekopecky.homestead.com
                        http://home.talkcity.com/earthteam2000/tonismith/index.html
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Jonathan Rosenberg <jr40@...>
                        To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 5:45 PM
                        Subject: RE: [feline-heart] More on Sam and clots


                        > Iva,
                        >
                        > I am so sorry to hear about Sam. Please know that you did what
                        > was best for Sam. And God bless you for caring so well for this
                        > boy, even though you were watching him for a friend. Sam was so
                        > very lucky to have you in his life at this time & to be able to
                        > pass in your loving arms.
                        >
                        > And you were blessed to have known Sam.
                        >
                        > Please accept my heartfelt condolences.
                        >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: Mellephone D'Aeriel [mailto:mellephone@...]
                        > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 5:18 PM
                        > > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] More on Sam and clots
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for all of the advice. Unfortunately things
                        > > took a noticeable turn for the worse today.
                        > >
                        > > I took Sam to the vet at 2:30 AM because he was
                        > > panting. They put him on Oxygen and he got better. I
                        > > left him there overnight. My husband called the vet
                        > > this morning and was told that his T4 count was down
                        > > to a 5 and his heart was doing much better. However
                        > > his liver and kidney enzymes were elevated and he had
                        > > cancerous cells in his blood sample. They told him
                        > > that Sam seemed very depressed. So I went immediately
                        > > to the vets to be with him. I held him for an hour and
                        > > petted him. He purred the whole time. The good news
                        > > was he'd gotten control back of all of his legs and
                        > > was moving. He was kneading my legs and seemed very
                        > > content. But then he started having a seizure.
                        > >
                        > > The vet said he was no longer breathing on his own.
                        > > They thought for sure he had died, but his little
                        > > heart was still beating. They put him on oxygen. But
                        > > they checked his eyes and said chances are he had
                        > > brain damage. They asked if I wanted to resuscitate
                        > > but I said no, not if his quality of life would be
                        > > poor. They said it would, so I made the tough decision
                        > > to have him put to sleep. He never stopped having
                        > > little seizures. I felt so guilty. But he was still
                        > > purring when they stopped his heart. I'm glad I got to
                        > > hold him while he passed.
                        > >
                        > > I requested he be cremated so at the least I can give
                        > > the remains to my friend so he can say a proper
                        > > goodbye. And I couldn't bear the thought of him being
                        > > disposed of like trash. It was so hard to watch, and I
                        > > feel so terrible about what I did to him. I hope I
                        > > made the right decision. I'm just glad I got to be
                        > > there in the end.
                        > >
                        > > Iva
                        > >
                        > > __________________________________________________
                        > > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > > Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
                        > > http://shopping.yahoo.com
                        > >
                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                      • Jan
                        ... is ... are ... http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        Message 11 of 13 , Dec 4, 2001
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                          > Dear Iva,
                          > I'm so glad you were able to be there with Sam and able to hold him in the
                          > end. I know that was a comfort for him. Do not feel bad for having him
                          > PTS. It would have been worse for him to suffer, and it sounds like that
                          is
                          > exactly what would have happened. Sam was so lucky to have you. There
                          are
                          > so many little animals who would love to have a human who would love and
                          > care for them, and make decisions for them. You were wonderful to Sam.
                          > My prayers are with Sam, and with you, and with Sam's owner.
                          > Jan






                          >
                          > http://joekopecky.homestead.com
                          > http://home.talkcity.com/earthteam2000/tonismith/index.html
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Jonathan Rosenberg <jr40@...>
                          > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 5:45 PM
                          > Subject: RE: [feline-heart] More on Sam and clots
                          >
                          >
                          > > Iva,
                          > >
                          > > I am so sorry to hear about Sam. Please know that you did what
                          > > was best for Sam. And God bless you for caring so well for this
                          > > boy, even though you were watching him for a friend. Sam was so
                          > > very lucky to have you in his life at this time & to be able to
                          > > pass in your loving arms.
                          > >
                          > > And you were blessed to have known Sam.
                          > >
                          > > Please accept my heartfelt condolences.
                          > >
                          > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > From: Mellephone D'Aeriel [mailto:mellephone@...]
                          > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 5:18 PM
                          > > > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] More on Sam and clots
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks for all of the advice. Unfortunately things
                          > > > took a noticeable turn for the worse today.
                          > > >
                          > > > I took Sam to the vet at 2:30 AM because he was
                          > > > panting. They put him on Oxygen and he got better. I
                          > > > left him there overnight. My husband called the vet
                          > > > this morning and was told that his T4 count was down
                          > > > to a 5 and his heart was doing much better. However
                          > > > his liver and kidney enzymes were elevated and he had
                          > > > cancerous cells in his blood sample. They told him
                          > > > that Sam seemed very depressed. So I went immediately
                          > > > to the vets to be with him. I held him for an hour and
                          > > > petted him. He purred the whole time. The good news
                          > > > was he'd gotten control back of all of his legs and
                          > > > was moving. He was kneading my legs and seemed very
                          > > > content. But then he started having a seizure.
                          > > >
                          > > > The vet said he was no longer breathing on his own.
                          > > > They thought for sure he had died, but his little
                          > > > heart was still beating. They put him on oxygen. But
                          > > > they checked his eyes and said chances are he had
                          > > > brain damage. They asked if I wanted to resuscitate
                          > > > but I said no, not if his quality of life would be
                          > > > poor. They said it would, so I made the tough decision
                          > > > to have him put to sleep. He never stopped having
                          > > > little seizures. I felt so guilty. But he was still
                          > > > purring when they stopped his heart. I'm glad I got to
                          > > > hold him while he passed.
                          > > >
                          > > > I requested he be cremated so at the least I can give
                          > > > the remains to my friend so he can say a proper
                          > > > goodbye. And I couldn't bear the thought of him being
                          > > > disposed of like trash. It was so hard to watch, and I
                          > > > feel so terrible about what I did to him. I hope I
                          > > > made the right decision. I'm just glad I got to be
                          > > > there in the end.
                          > > >
                          > > > Iva
                          > > >
                          > > > __________________________________________________
                          > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > > > Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
                          > > > http://shopping.yahoo.com
                          > > >
                          > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
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