Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [FH] Heart and Kidney issues- Prayers are appreciated

Expand Messages
  • karenborga@yahoo.com
    Dear Amy, Prayers going out for Mez and you. Karen, Assistant Host Moderated On-Line Chat Room Pet Loss Support Fridays Anticipatory Bereavement Chat Room 1st
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 31, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Amy,

      Prayers going out for Mez and you.

      Karen, Assistant Host
      Moderated On-Line Chat Room Pet Loss Support
      Fridays
      Anticipatory Bereavement Chat Room
      1st and 3rd Thursdays
      8-10 pm eastern
      www.APLB.org

      *****

      ....My vet is reluctant to give fluids because of fluid in her heart, saying she doesn't know what else to do for her. Really?? Can we do small doses (sub-fluids) and still be effective? Would B shots be important at this time? Potassium supplement?

      Thank you. Feeling in a really tough spot. Prayers are appreciated :)

      ~Amy and Mez



      Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
    • elfinmyst@aol.com
      Hi Amy Please get a potassium supplement immediately. Low potassium can cause weakness and lethargy and coordination problems and movement problems. If the
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 1, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Amy

        Please get a potassium supplement immediately. Low potassium can cause
        weakness and lethargy and coordination problems and movement problems. If the
        potassium is low from the spiro it's vital it is replaced. I use a
        supplement called Kaminox which is a beefy flavour and drops. Your vet or
        cardiologist will be able to get something.

        I`m not sure about the fluids, I know some here do subcutaneous but it's
        not something I have experience with. But I know a potassium deficiency will
        be making Mez very weak and poorly and is something that can be treated.

        Lyn:)

        _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • water glow
        Thank you for your responses and prayers. I will ask my vet to give the Potassium supp today. Is it a quick acting thing or one to wait a day or two? I tried
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 1, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Thank you for your responses and prayers. I will ask my vet to give the Potassium supp today. Is it a quick acting thing or one to wait a day or two? I tried giving her alum. hydrox. for binding the Phosphorus but she threw it up. Yesterday was our first day with Slippery Elm Bark for the acidity. I gave her 7.5 ml altogether, I'm not sure if she needs more or less and how long it takes to start counteracting the acidity. The vet said I could give her a shot of pimobodin under the skin. I was thinking I didn't want to overload her system by doing both. She seems so exhausted. :(

          This morning she did lick the top of her fancy feast food but only a handful of times. I plan to feed her by syringe again today.

          ~Amy and Mez



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • lorkatz2004
          yes, I have. I had a persian that had both HCM and PKD. It is a tough balancing act..........however, the one rule I always remembered and followed was the
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 1, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            yes, I have. I had a persian that had both HCM and PKD. It is a tough balancing act..........however, the one rule I always remembered and followed was the heart trumps the kidneys. Without the heart pumping, you have no need to treat the kidneys.

            Good luck and my prayers are with you
            Cathy




            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, water glow <waterglow12@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Lorie (and others dealing with this),
            >
            > Have you dealt with many cases where a cat was on diuretics for heart and also receiving fluids for Kidneys? Mez's legs are now weak and she seems to not have much muscle tone all in a couple of days. What is the protocol usually for this? Her voice has been scratchy the past 2 days. I was told her potassium was low, electrolytes abnormal (from spiro?) I have a call into her vet. Is there anything we can do in your opinion? My vet is reluctant to give fluids because of fluid in her heart, saying she doesn't know what else to do for her. Really?? Can we do small doses (sub-fluids) and still be effective? Would B shots be important at this time? Potassium supplement?
            >
            > Thank you. Feeling in a really tough spot. Prayers are appreciated :)
            >
            > ~Amy and Mez
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • LorieAHuston@cs.com
            Hi Amy (and Mez). You both have my thoughts and prayers behind you! Amy, I would definitely consider a potassium supplement to increase the blood potassium
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 1, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Amy (and Mez).

              You both have my thoughts and prayers behind you!

              Amy, I would definitely consider a potassium supplement to increase the blood potassium level if it is very low. Giving fluids to these cats with kidney and heart issues can be tricky and really is a delicate balancing act. Often, fluids are given along with a low-dose of a diuretic (like Lasix/furosemide). But this is something that is disputed even between veterinarians. If fluids are given, low volumes given more frequently may be helpful. For instance, if you're giving subcut. fluids, cut the total fluid dose (calculated for a cat with kidney disease but no heart disease) by 25-50% and divide it up into two doses rather than one.

              I would also make sure Mez' blood pressure is being monitored. Hyper or hypo-tension can both cause further issues with both the heart and kidneys.

              Are you seeing a cardiologist with Mez? If not, you might want to consider doing so. Often, they have a bit more experience dealing with these types of problems than a general practitioner.

              Good luck with Mez. I hope he feels better soon.

              Lorie Huston, DVM
              Pet Health Care Gazette (www.pet-health-care-gazette.com)






              -----Original Message-----
              From: water glow <waterglow12@...>
              To: lorieahuston <lorieahuston@...>; feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2011 12:08 am
              Subject: Heart and Kidney issues- Prayers are appreciated




              Hi Lorie (and others dealing with this),

              Have you dealt with many cases where a cat was on diuretics for heart and also receiving fluids for Kidneys? Mez's legs are now weak and she seems to not have much muscle tone all in a couple of days. What is the protocol usually for this? Her voice has been scratchy the past 2 days. I was told her potassium was low, electrolytes abnormal (from spiro?) I have a call into her vet. Is there anything we can do in your opinion? My vet is reluctant to give fluids because of fluid in her heart, saying she doesn't know what else to do for her. Really?? Can we do small doses (sub-fluids) and still be effective? Would B shots be important at this time? Potassium supplement?

              Thank you. Feeling in a really tough spot. Prayers are appreciated :)

              ~Amy and Mez









              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • water glow
              Hi Lorie, Her respiratory rate is elevated since last night. I spoke with my vet this morning and she said she considered giving her fluids for her kidneys at
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 1, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Lorie,

                Her respiratory rate is elevated since last night. I spoke with my vet this morning and she said she considered giving her fluids for her kidneys at a small dose when we thought the fluid/respiratory rate was under control. She feels it would put her under more duress and quite possibly put her into heart failure now. She also said that to be effective the potassium would need to be introduced intravenously-? She said injection stings and supplements are difficult because she is not eating. Again she said fluids could affect her negatively. Her breath is quite strong smelling so I imagine it is the toxic build up. She said we could try Themodidine for the acid in her system and to help coat the possible ulcerations she is dealing with. I'm having a hard time feeling clear about it all. Can I put potassium in a syringe? Does it need to be balanced with any other minerals? Will it make any impact without the fluids?

                Thanks,

                Amy and Mez




                --- On Fri, 4/1/11, lorieahuston@... <lorieahuston@...> wrote:

                From: lorieahuston@... <lorieahuston@...>
                Subject: Re: Heart and Kidney issues- Prayers are appreciated
                To: waterglow12@...,
                Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 8:54 AM


                Hi Amy (and Mez).


                 


                You both have my thoughts and prayers behind you!


                 


                Amy, I would definitely consider a potassium supplement to increase the blood potassium level if it is very low. Giving fluids to these cats with kidney and heart issues can be tricky and really is a delicate balancing act. Often, fluids are given along with a low-dose of a diuretic (like Lasix/furosemide). But this is something that is disputed even between veterinarians. If fluids are given, low volumes given more frequently may be helpful. For instance, if you're giving subcut. fluids, cut the total fluid dose (calculated for a cat with kidney disease but no heart disease) by 25-50% and divide it up into two doses rather than one.


                 


                I would also make sure Mez' blood pressure is being monitored. Hyper or hypo-tension can both cause further issues with both the heart and kidneys.


                 


                Are you seeing a cardiologist with Mez? If not, you might want to consider doing so. Often, they have a bit more experience dealing with these types of problems than a general practitioner.


                 


                Good luck with Mez. I hope he feels better soon.


                 


                Lorie Huston, DVM


                Pet Health Care Gazette (www.pet-health-care-gazette.com)













                -----Original Message-----

                From: water glow <waterglow12@...>

                To: lorieahuston <lorieahuston@...>; feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>

                Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2011 12:08 am

                Subject: Heart and Kidney issues- Prayers are appreciated









                Hi Lorie (and others dealing with this),



                Have you dealt with many cases where a cat was on diuretics for heart and also receiving fluids for Kidneys? Mez's legs are now weak and she seems to not have much muscle tone all in a couple of days. What is the protocol usually for this? Her voice has been scratchy the past 2 days. I was told her potassium was low, electrolytes abnormal (from spiro?) I have a call into her vet. Is there anything we can do in your opinion? My vet is reluctant to give fluids because of fluid in her heart, saying she doesn't know what else to do for her. Really?? Can we do small doses (sub-fluids) and still be effective? Would B shots be important at this time? Potassium supplement?



                Thank you. Feeling in a really tough spot. Prayers are appreciated :)



                ~Amy and Mez














                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Carol
                hi Amy, Boy, I know how you feel. I ve gone through what you re going through too many times with my heart/kidney kitties. Did you give the phos binder by
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 1, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  hi Amy,

                  Boy, I know how you feel. I've gone through what you're going through too many times with my heart/kidney kitties.

                  Did you give the phos binder by itself? It has to be given in the food. It doesn't do anything if it's not given with food as far as binding the phosphorus. Take your daily dose and divide it up between how many meals you give Mez and mix it in. If you're syringing, then put it in the food to be syringed, and only give a little at a time so you can avoid the spewing as much as possible.

                  The potassium supplement isn't a fast acting thing. It'll take a few days to a week to really kick in, but you might see some improvement in a couple day, depending on how good Mez is at absorbing it. We gave Misty potassium injections in her subq fluids, so she absorbed them right away. I think the oral medication takes a little longer.

                  Slippery elm works immediately. It coats the lining of the stomach and digestive tract, including the intestinal tract, protecting it from the acid. It doesn't reduce the acid or neutralize it... it just protects the stomach from it, so it doesn't cause as much nausea.

                  Remember to give the slippery elm NOT with other medications. It has to be given at least two hours away from other things, because of it's mucilagenous nature of coating the digestive and intestinal tract, it can inhibit the absorption of those things. Are you giving it as a syrup or gruel or are you putting the powder in food? When you give it straight as powder in food, you can give up to 1/4 teaspoon of the powder twice a day. If you make a syrup (1tsp of slippery elm to 1 cup of boiled water), you can give up to 3 teaspoons (15ml) a day, spread apart. Sometimes I've given more than than when they were really, really nauseated.

                  Forgive me if you've already told this, I haven't been able to read many posts this week so am not up to date on everything, but are you giving Mez Pepcid AC or any other acid blocking thing? 1/4 a tablet twice a day is what we gave Snowball, then we switched to injectable... much easier.

                  Also, what about an anti-nausea medication? We gave our angel Snowball Cyproheptadine, and it worked very well for her. The normal dose is 1/4 tablet twice a day, but we never gave her that much. She got by with 1/16 to 1/8 a tablet once a day and it worked well for her. We did such a low dose because it can cause rapid heart rate, and Snowball had a really high one already.

                  Another thing we gave Snowball is Ondansetron injections. It's an anti-emetic and it's supposed to prevent nausea. It's normall given to cancer patients to curb the nausea side effects of chemo and radiation. You need a prescription and you can buy it online at Thrivingpets.
                  http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/ondansetron-zofran.html

                  You give an injection once or twice a day. We gave Snowball .35ml twice a day. It really did help her a lot. Between that and the Cyproheptadine, she ate much better.

                  My angel Sweetie was also a heart/kidney kitty, and she had congestive heart failure too. We gave her MINIMAL subq fluids. We'd give her 25 to 50ml a day. We also gave her Lasix to counteract the fluid build up. If she got in worse CHF, we'd increase the Lasix a little bit, hold off on the fluids and hope for the best. She was in this balancing act for the last 10 months of her life, but pretty much most of the time she was really okay. It's really hard, but not totally impossible to treat both.

                  One thing you can do is try to get Mez to drink more. Getting the fluids orally isn't as hard on the heart at when they're directly injected under the skin. Giving IV fluids or subQ's, the fluid goes directly into the tissues, and that can overload them quicker. Giving more fluid orally, going through the digestive system, the body takes what it needs at a slower pace. My angel dog, Fritzy, also had heart/kidney problems, and I could not give her subQ's. She just wouldn't let me. So I gave her homemade chicken broth, just chicken and water that I boiled into broth...no spices. She drank about 2 1/2 cups a day which more than made up for her not getting fluids. With a cat, you'd only need to get her to drink (or eat in the food) maybe 1/2 cup. There are about 118 ml of fluid in 1/2 cup, so you could spread it out throughout the day to get that 100 or so ml's of fluid into her. I used to syringe water or broth into my heart/kidney kitties when I couldn't give them subq's. Thankfully, none of them rebelled too terribly, except for Snowball... she never let me syringe her very well.

                  Hang in there Amy. I feel so much for what you're going through. My prayers are with you guys and we'll send lots of healing energy.

                  hugs,
                  Carol and Angel Snowball *5/10/91 to 1/1/10*

                  and the gang
                  http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: water glow <waterglow12@...>
                  To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2011 4:13 am
                  Subject: [FH] Re: Heart and Kidney issues- Prayers are appreciated




                  Thank you for your responses and prayers. I will ask my vet to give the Potassium supp today. Is it a quick acting thing or one to wait a day or two? I tried giving her alum. hydrox. for binding the Phosphorus but she threw it up. Yesterday was our first day with Slippery Elm Bark for the acidity. I gave her 7.5 ml altogether, I'm not sure if she needs more or less and how long it takes to start counteracting the acidity. The vet said I could give her a shot of pimobodin under the skin. I was thinking I didn't want to overload her system by doing both. She seems so exhausted. :(

                  This morning she did lick the top of her fancy feast food but only a handful of times. I plan to feed her by syringe again today.

                  ~Amy and Mez











                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Carol
                  hi Amy, I would give her potassium supplements anyway. Low potassium is as dangerous as high...it affects the heart adversely. You can crush the tablets and
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 1, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    hi Amy,

                    I would give her potassium supplements anyway. Low potassium is as dangerous as high...it affects the heart adversely. You can crush the tablets and mix them is food to syringe. That way you're giving it with food so it shouldn't upset her tummy. The oral supplements won't work as quickly as injectable in fluids, but it'll still help.

                    There are veterinary kinds of potassium (Tumil K is one), and they're usually gels or paste kind of thing that you get them to lick. My guys never liked them. Here's more info about potassium supplements from the CRF group's supplies site.
                    http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt/supplies/potassium.htm

                    I would give Mez some Rescue Remedy flower essence. I gave it to all of our angel heart kitties when they'd have increased respiration, and many times it helped. I don't know if it ever did anything "medical" to correct the breathing, but I know it did make them breath slower and more calmly. You can get Bach Rescue Remedy at a health food store. If you buy the one with alcohol in it, also buy a little empty dropper bottle to make your remedy. Put 5 drops of RR into the dropper bottle with spring water (not tap or distilled water). Shake the bottle 100 times (this is called succussing) on the palm of your hand the first time you make the remedy. Then each time you dose it, do the same thing but only about 20 times. This activates the energy of the flower essence. Put a few drops in the mouth or on any bare skin (rub it in in little counter clockwise circles). The tips of the ears and the tummy, the very top of the head in the middle between the ears is the calming/focus point in acupuncture. Rub some into that point all the way through the fur to the skin. You can dose Rescue Remedy every 15 minutes if you need to. It always seemed to help my guys. Here's more info on flower essences.
                    http://www.holisticat.com/fes.html
                    http://www.bachflower.com/38_Essences.htm

                    hugs,
                    Carol and Angel Snowball *5/10/91 to 1/1/10*

                    and the gang
                    http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • C.R.
                    hi Amy, I just read this about Mez s T4. How high is it? Did they also do a Free T4 to confirm the elevation? What was that? High thyroid can make them feel
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 1, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      hi Amy,

                      I just read this about Mez's T4. How high is it? Did they also do a Free T4 to confirm the elevation? What was that?

                      High thyroid can make them feel awful! It did with my angel Snowball.

                      Yes, keeping the thyroid slightly elevated, can help the kidneys work better, because since the thyroid regulates the other organs, the kidneys will work "faster" to do their job. But a really high thyroid will make the heart also go way faster than normal too. It's another balancing act... {sigh}. How much methimazole does Mez get?

                      Boy, the high thyroid, high phosphorus, low potassium, all these things will definitely make them feel very low and lethargic, nauseated and pewey.

                      Hang in there.

                      Carol and Angel Snowball
                      and the gang

                      >
                      > Blood work showed her creatnine levels were down a bit and the mysterious part was her T4 jumped up to high levels again, the last 2 readings over the past 6 weeks T4 had been below low. The vet said she doesn't know what to say about it but wants to keep her methimazole dose where it is at for now. She said it could be her body suppressing one function to help another...
                    • C.R.
                      I heard from Amy tonight and she told me that Mez crossed the bridge tonight. Please keep her in your prayers. I m not sure if she s going to post tonight,
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 1, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I heard from Amy tonight and she told me that Mez crossed the bridge tonight. Please keep her in your prayers. I'm not sure if she's going to post tonight, but you can email Amy directly by replying to one of her posts and have it sent to her email.

                        So very sad....losing yet another little kitty after trying so very hard to help her. :-(

                        Carol and Angel Snowball
                        and the gang
                      • janie
                        Yes, I heard from Amy too. Mez is an angel. Lots of problems to solve we can only go as far as God lets us. I am so very sorry Amy again I am sure she would
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 2, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Yes, I heard from Amy too. Mez is an angel. Lots of problems to solve
                          we can only go as far as God lets us. I am so very sorry Amy again
                          I am sure she would love the support as this group always gives us. I
                          dont know what I would have done without it since 1999. I have lost a
                          lot of kitties over the years. People come and go and we are here to
                          support as we each go through the stages. Telling new people there is
                          no time frame. We all will live and die and we should enjoy life like
                          our cats do to the fullest. Love your babies each day and dont worry
                          about that day. It could be fast or it could be a long time. God
                          bless. Janie Boomer Cinnamon Stormy and Rockie dog brother.
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.