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Re: [feline-heart] Re: Added another diuretic...

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  • Pam Sessoms
    ... Nancy, sorry to hear about your sweet (and so young) kitty. My Sunny weighed about 1 kg, or 2.2 pounds. At one point, before we added the amiloride/hctz,
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 1, 2001
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      > --- In feline-heart@y..., "Nancy Wahlstrom" <nancyw@e...> wrote:
      >
      > My cat is on lasix. he weighs 7 lbs. he was getting 10 mg per day but
      > needed to be drained about every 5 days. he then went on 12.5 mg and
      > his chest remained clear. Now his potassium is down and our vet wants
      > us to cut back the lasix. I have a few questions for you. What kind of
      > dose were you using for what size animal.

      Nancy, sorry to hear about your sweet (and so young) kitty.

      My Sunny weighed about 1 kg, or 2.2 pounds. At one point, before we added
      the amiloride/hctz, she was getting 8 mg of lasix ever six hours. Yes,
      really... It was a lot. That was much more than was listed as the top
      dose in many ferret books, but me and my vet did some consulting and found
      that some ferrets tolerate really high doses and it's a "dose to effect"
      drug, so we just used what we had to. It's not terribly long-acting. We
      did get a long boost when we went from giving it twice a day to three
      times a day. I can't remember how much we decreased it when she went on
      the amiloride/hctz, but it was significant. She compensated by drinking a
      whole lot; I read that some animals don't tolerate the really high doses
      and just get dehydrated, so of course you have to watch the individual.

      Sunny was never tapped, but she never had fluid *around* her lungs, only
      actually in her lungs. I think my vet mentioned once that taps were
      usually needed once the fluid was around the lungs, because diuretics
      weren't so good at getting it out from there even though they work well on
      fluid inside the lungs.

      > Did it throw off electrolytes?

      Yes, eventually, we did have to give her Tumil-K as a potassium
      supplement. For the longest time, she was in a delicate balance between
      the lotensin/benazepril and spironolactone (both can increase potassium)
      and the lasix (wastes potassium) and didn't need supplementation. But
      then, sure enough, she did need it eventually. The Amiloride/HCTZ was
      another one that spares potassium, if memory serves.

      At any rate, it may be worth checking with your vet about either
      supplementing potassium or adding another diuretic that spares potassium
      in the body... Whatever it takes to keep your baby's fluid at bay...

      Best of wishes to you and your kitty,

      -Pam S.
    • Nancy Wahlstrom
      Thanks so much for the information. ... From: Pam Sessoms To: Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 5:27
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 3, 2001
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        Thanks so much for the information.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Pam Sessoms" <pjdutche@...>
        To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 5:27 PM
        Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Re: Added another diuretic...


        > > --- In feline-heart@y..., "Nancy Wahlstrom" <nancyw@e...> wrote:
        > >
        > > My cat is on lasix. he weighs 7 lbs. he was getting 10 mg per day but
        > > needed to be drained about every 5 days. he then went on 12.5 mg and
        > > his chest remained clear. Now his potassium is down and our vet wants
        > > us to cut back the lasix. I have a few questions for you. What kind of
        > > dose were you using for what size animal.
        >
        > Nancy, sorry to hear about your sweet (and so young) kitty.
        >
        > My Sunny weighed about 1 kg, or 2.2 pounds. At one point, before we added
        > the amiloride/hctz, she was getting 8 mg of lasix ever six hours. Yes,
        > really... It was a lot. That was much more than was listed as the top
        > dose in many ferret books, but me and my vet did some consulting and found
        > that some ferrets tolerate really high doses and it's a "dose to effect"
        > drug, so we just used what we had to. It's not terribly long-acting. We
        > did get a long boost when we went from giving it twice a day to three
        > times a day. I can't remember how much we decreased it when she went on
        > the amiloride/hctz, but it was significant. She compensated by drinking a
        > whole lot; I read that some animals don't tolerate the really high doses
        > and just get dehydrated, so of course you have to watch the individual.
        >
        > Sunny was never tapped, but she never had fluid *around* her lungs, only
        > actually in her lungs. I think my vet mentioned once that taps were
        > usually needed once the fluid was around the lungs, because diuretics
        > weren't so good at getting it out from there even though they work well on
        > fluid inside the lungs.
        >
        > > Did it throw off electrolytes?
        >
        > Yes, eventually, we did have to give her Tumil-K as a potassium
        > supplement. For the longest time, she was in a delicate balance between
        > the lotensin/benazepril and spironolactone (both can increase potassium)
        > and the lasix (wastes potassium) and didn't need supplementation. But
        > then, sure enough, she did need it eventually. The Amiloride/HCTZ was
        > another one that spares potassium, if memory serves.
        >
        > At any rate, it may be worth checking with your vet about either
        > supplementing potassium or adding another diuretic that spares potassium
        > in the body... Whatever it takes to keep your baby's fluid at bay...
        >
        > Best of wishes to you and your kitty,
        >
        > -Pam S.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
      • mukki2@yahoo.com
        My cat (who ranges from 10-11 lbs) started on 12.5mg a day when he was first diagnosed and went up to 8 tabs a day (100mg), which, yes, is insane. I have
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 3, 2001
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          My cat (who ranges from 10-11 lbs) started on 12.5mg a day when he
          was first diagnosed and went up to 8 tabs a day (100mg), which, yes,
          is insane. I have consulted with a cardiologist who has said that
          37.5mg can be used every 8-12 hours when the cat is in severe
          distress. No one else has ever given me a number 1/2 that high,
          however, so I really wouldn't recommend doing anything like that on
          your own. My vet knows that my cat experiences severe stress from
          going to the vet so he provides me with dosage amounts with the
          caveat that I must watch for signs of kidney failure and that
          bloodwork really should be done quite often.

          At any rate, I believe Smer's electrolytes were only affected
          slightly. His kidneys only showed minor BUN elevation, but that was
          during his bladder infection when they thought the infection may have
          spread to his kidneys.

          After about 4 tablets a day, the high doses seemed to stop working.
          Apparently, the receptors on the kidneys had been overloaded. So, I
          added the new diuretic and reduced the lasix to 24 mgs a day (on the
          vet's recommendation).

          Hope that helps. I haven't heard of anyone using such high dosages of
          lasix. But, in Smer's case, we were either going to have to put him
          to sleep or take the risk of a higher dose. Of course, if I had
          learned about the hydrochlorthiazide earlier, I wouldn't have had to
          take the risk.


          --- In feline-heart@y..., "Nancy Wahlstrom" <nancyw@e...> wrote:
          > I am so interested about news on diuretics. My cat is about 3 and
          has and
          > keeps filling with chest fluid. I was wondering what is your dosage
          of lasix
          > and for what size animal. Have electrolytes gone out of whack with
          the dose?
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: <mukki2@y...>
          > To: <feline-heart@y...>
          > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 1:51 PM
          > Subject: [feline-heart] Added another diuretic...
          >
          >
          > > Well, last Monday, after Smer's breathing had been getting worse
          and
          > > worse, I talked to my vet about adding another diuretic (in the
          > > hydrochlorthiazide group) to Smer's meds after doing some internet
          > > research. I did so just in time, too. The vet had never heard of
          > > adding a different diuretic, but I pushed him on the matter and he
          > > called a vet cardiologist who agreed with me that we should try a
          > > combination. That night Smer had open mouth breathing after eating
          > > his dinner and really looked like he wouldn't make it through the
          > > night. I started him on the hydrochlorthiazide and lowered the
          lasix,
          > > however, that night and the results have been miraculous! He has
          had
          > > no open mouth breathing since then and has been sleeping
          in "normal"
          > > positions and yelling at me for food. I am absolutely thrilled and
          > > hope that this new med keeps him comfortable for many more months.
          > >
          > > The new diuretic hits different receptors in his kidneys. The vet
          > > said that the lasix had overloaded the receptors it was hitting;
          > > hence, the effects had diminished greatly. There is also a third
          > > group of diuretics that hit yet a third receptor.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
        • mukki2@yahoo.com
          I should add that Smer takes all of his meds ground up in wet food. I have always wondered whether this reduces the effect of the medication, but everyone
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 3, 2001
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            I should add that Smer takes all of his meds ground up in wet food. I
            have always wondered whether this reduces the effect of the
            medication, but everyone tells me that it doesn't. Smer was probably
            able to handle such a high dose because he had been on lasix for so
            long that it just wasn't affecting him as much.

            --- In feline-heart@y..., mukki2@y... wrote:
            > My cat (who ranges from 10-11 lbs) started on 12.5mg a day when he
            > was first diagnosed and went up to 8 tabs a day (100mg), which,
            yes,
            > is insane. I have consulted with a cardiologist who has said that
            > 37.5mg can be used every 8-12 hours when the cat is in severe
            > distress. No one else has ever given me a number 1/2 that high,
            > however, so I really wouldn't recommend doing anything like that on
            > your own. My vet knows that my cat experiences severe stress from
            > going to the vet so he provides me with dosage amounts with the
            > caveat that I must watch for signs of kidney failure and that
            > bloodwork really should be done quite often.
            >
            > At any rate, I believe Smer's electrolytes were only affected
            > slightly. His kidneys only showed minor BUN elevation, but that was
            > during his bladder infection when they thought the infection may
            have
            > spread to his kidneys.
            >
            > After about 4 tablets a day, the high doses seemed to stop working.
            > Apparently, the receptors on the kidneys had been overloaded. So, I
            > added the new diuretic and reduced the lasix to 24 mgs a day (on
            the
            > vet's recommendation).
            >
            > Hope that helps. I haven't heard of anyone using such high dosages
            of
            > lasix. But, in Smer's case, we were either going to have to put him
            > to sleep or take the risk of a higher dose. Of course, if I had
            > learned about the hydrochlorthiazide earlier, I wouldn't have had
            to
            > take the risk.
            >
            >
            > --- In feline-heart@y..., "Nancy Wahlstrom" <nancyw@e...> wrote:
            > > I am so interested about news on diuretics. My cat is about 3 and
            > has and
            > > keeps filling with chest fluid. I was wondering what is your
            dosage
            > of lasix
            > > and for what size animal. Have electrolytes gone out of whack
            with
            > the dose?
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: <mukki2@y...>
            > > To: <feline-heart@y...>
            > > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 1:51 PM
            > > Subject: [feline-heart] Added another diuretic...
            > >
            > >
            > > > Well, last Monday, after Smer's breathing had been getting
            worse
            > and
            > > > worse, I talked to my vet about adding another diuretic (in the
            > > > hydrochlorthiazide group) to Smer's meds after doing some
            internet
            > > > research. I did so just in time, too. The vet had never heard of
            > > > adding a different diuretic, but I pushed him on the matter and
            he
            > > > called a vet cardiologist who agreed with me that we should try
            a
            > > > combination. That night Smer had open mouth breathing after
            eating
            > > > his dinner and really looked like he wouldn't make it through
            the
            > > > night. I started him on the hydrochlorthiazide and lowered the
            > lasix,
            > > > however, that night and the results have been miraculous! He
            has
            > had
            > > > no open mouth breathing since then and has been sleeping
            > in "normal"
            > > > positions and yelling at me for food. I am absolutely thrilled
            and
            > > > hope that this new med keeps him comfortable for many more
            months.
            > > >
            > > > The new diuretic hits different receptors in his kidneys. The
            vet
            > > > said that the lasix had overloaded the receptors it was hitting;
            > > > hence, the effects had diminished greatly. There is also a
            third
            > > > group of diuretics that hit yet a third receptor.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > >
          • Jan
            Good info on checking into the potassium sparing diuretics. My prayers are with you. My Pretty Girl had the same problem with fluid build up. Jan
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 3, 2001
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              Good info on checking into the potassium sparing diuretics. My prayers are
              with you. My Pretty Girl had the same problem with fluid build up.
              Jan

              http://joekopecky.homestead.com
              http://home.talkcity.com/earthteam2000/tonismith/index.html
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Pam Sessoms <pjdutche@...>
              To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 4:27 PM
              Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Re: Added another diuretic...


              > > --- In feline-heart@y..., "Nancy Wahlstrom" <nancyw@e...> wrote:
              > >
              > > My cat is on lasix. he weighs 7 lbs. he was getting 10 mg per day but
              > > needed to be drained about every 5 days. he then went on 12.5 mg and
              > > his chest remained clear. Now his potassium is down and our vet wants
              > > us to cut back the lasix. I have a few questions for you. What kind of
              > > dose were you using for what size animal.
              >
              > Nancy, sorry to hear about your sweet (and so young) kitty.
              >
              > My Sunny weighed about 1 kg, or 2.2 pounds. At one point, before we added
              > the amiloride/hctz, she was getting 8 mg of lasix ever six hours. Yes,
              > really... It was a lot. That was much more than was listed as the top
              > dose in many ferret books, but me and my vet did some consulting and found
              > that some ferrets tolerate really high doses and it's a "dose to effect"
              > drug, so we just used what we had to. It's not terribly long-acting. We
              > did get a long boost when we went from giving it twice a day to three
              > times a day. I can't remember how much we decreased it when she went on
              > the amiloride/hctz, but it was significant. She compensated by drinking a
              > whole lot; I read that some animals don't tolerate the really high doses
              > and just get dehydrated, so of course you have to watch the individual.
              >
              > Sunny was never tapped, but she never had fluid *around* her lungs, only
              > actually in her lungs. I think my vet mentioned once that taps were
              > usually needed once the fluid was around the lungs, because diuretics
              > weren't so good at getting it out from there even though they work well on
              > fluid inside the lungs.
              >
              > > Did it throw off electrolytes?
              >
              > Yes, eventually, we did have to give her Tumil-K as a potassium
              > supplement. For the longest time, she was in a delicate balance between
              > the lotensin/benazepril and spironolactone (both can increase potassium)
              > and the lasix (wastes potassium) and didn't need supplementation. But
              > then, sure enough, she did need it eventually. The Amiloride/HCTZ was
              > another one that spares potassium, if memory serves.
              >
              > At any rate, it may be worth checking with your vet about either
              > supplementing potassium or adding another diuretic that spares potassium
              > in the body... Whatever it takes to keep your baby's fluid at bay...
              >
              > Best of wishes to you and your kitty,
              >
              > -Pam S.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • Nancy Wahlstrom
              I am trying to build up the potassium with banana baby food. So far my Wiley is eating it when mixed with food. I hope it works on the potassium deficiency. We
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 4, 2001
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                I am trying to build up the potassium with banana baby food. So far my Wiley
                is eating it when mixed with food. I hope it works on the potassium
                deficiency. We will get new blood work in another week. We have not had to
                have Wiley drained in about 20 days!
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Jan" <toni@...>
                To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 1:38 AM
                Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Re: Added another diuretic...


                > Good info on checking into the potassium sparing diuretics. My prayers
                are
                > with you. My Pretty Girl had the same problem with fluid build up.
                > Jan
                >
                > http://joekopecky.homestead.com
                > http://home.talkcity.com/earthteam2000/tonismith/index.html
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Pam Sessoms <pjdutche@...>
                > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 4:27 PM
                > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Re: Added another diuretic...
                >
                >
                > > > --- In feline-heart@y..., "Nancy Wahlstrom" <nancyw@e...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > My cat is on lasix. he weighs 7 lbs. he was getting 10 mg per day but
                > > > needed to be drained about every 5 days. he then went on 12.5 mg and
                > > > his chest remained clear. Now his potassium is down and our vet wants
                > > > us to cut back the lasix. I have a few questions for you. What kind of
                > > > dose were you using for what size animal.
                > >
                > > Nancy, sorry to hear about your sweet (and so young) kitty.
                > >
                > > My Sunny weighed about 1 kg, or 2.2 pounds. At one point, before we
                added
                > > the amiloride/hctz, she was getting 8 mg of lasix ever six hours. Yes,
                > > really... It was a lot. That was much more than was listed as the top
                > > dose in many ferret books, but me and my vet did some consulting and
                found
                > > that some ferrets tolerate really high doses and it's a "dose to effect"
                > > drug, so we just used what we had to. It's not terribly long-acting.
                We
                > > did get a long boost when we went from giving it twice a day to three
                > > times a day. I can't remember how much we decreased it when she went on
                > > the amiloride/hctz, but it was significant. She compensated by drinking
                a
                > > whole lot; I read that some animals don't tolerate the really high doses
                > > and just get dehydrated, so of course you have to watch the individual.
                > >
                > > Sunny was never tapped, but she never had fluid *around* her lungs, only
                > > actually in her lungs. I think my vet mentioned once that taps were
                > > usually needed once the fluid was around the lungs, because diuretics
                > > weren't so good at getting it out from there even though they work well
                on
                > > fluid inside the lungs.
                > >
                > > > Did it throw off electrolytes?
                > >
                > > Yes, eventually, we did have to give her Tumil-K as a potassium
                > > supplement. For the longest time, she was in a delicate balance between
                > > the lotensin/benazepril and spironolactone (both can increase potassium)
                > > and the lasix (wastes potassium) and didn't need supplementation. But
                > > then, sure enough, she did need it eventually. The Amiloride/HCTZ was
                > > another one that spares potassium, if memory serves.
                > >
                > > At any rate, it may be worth checking with your vet about either
                > > supplementing potassium or adding another diuretic that spares potassium
                > > in the body... Whatever it takes to keep your baby's fluid at bay...
                > >
                > > Best of wishes to you and your kitty,
                > >
                > > -Pam S.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
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