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Oscar had a syncope last night

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  • marciahibberd
    Hello everyone Oscar is nearly 17, and was diagnosed with a heart murmur and HCM last October following a number of syncopes, which at first I thought was
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 27, 2011
      Hello everyone

      Oscar is nearly 17, and was diagnosed with a heart murmur and HCM last October following a number of syncopes, which at first I thought was epilepsy.

      He's on 0.7ml atenolol twice daily (compounded liquid, given in milk) to stabilise his heart rhythm, and c. 18.75 mg daily clopidegrel to stop clots forming. Because of his age, our cardio advised against aspirin.

      Last night he had his first syncope since we upped his atenolol to its current level in November 2010. Unlike previous episodes he was clearly gasping for breath, which went on for a minute or so after he stopped moving.

      He recovered in a few minutes and went on to eat and drink (not unusual), but was restless for an hour or so. For a minute or so he couldn't use his hind legs, and was a bit wobbly for a half hour.

      He didn't seem to be able to settle on his side, and eventually fell asleep with his head being supported in my hand. He had been purring, but at least some of that was 'distress purr', and he made a strange noise for a bit while breathing.

      The emergency vet I spoke to was happy that he was back to normal, and suggested that we take him to the normal vet today. She explained that they wouldn't have been able to treat him with anything. (I should explain, she's not our normal vet, just a much cheaper 24 hour service than our normal vet who knows Oscar well).

      We're taking Oscar to the vet later for a check up. He's totally back to normal this morning, which is reassuring.

      I'd really appreciate your feedback on this attack. Does this mean his meds have stopped working? Does this mean his HCM is advancing quickly? I don't want him to suffer like he did last night.

      Thank you
      Marcia x
    • C.R.
      Hi Marcia, What you described doesn t sound like a syncope to me. My angel Sweetie had syncopies, so did Snowball, and when it happened to them, all that
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 27, 2011
        Hi Marcia,

        What you described doesn't sound like a syncope to me. My angel Sweetie had syncopies, so did Snowball, and when it happened to them, all that happened was they "fainted"...in their tracks. Wherever they were or whatever they were doing, they just would collapse on the spot. There wasn't any open mouth or heavy breathing, just them being like they were out cold for a short while. Then they'd get up after they "woke up" and it was business as usual.

        What you described with the breathing, sounds more to me like some kind of seizure. My angel dog Fritzy had seizures that were brought on from her liver disease, and she would do that...the heavy breathing, and she'd also kind of flail her legs. Snowball had a seizure caused from a drug interaction with Mirtazapine and Tapazole (never give the two together - the Tapazole inhibits the enzymes necessary to clear the Mirtazapine out of the liver, causing a toxic liver situation and that in turn can cause seizures). When Snowball had the seizure it was her falling down on her side, flailing her legs, open mouth breathing... we thought she was dying. After about five minutes, she recovered slowly and was okay after about another half hour. It was really scarey. It sounds like what Oscar experiences.

        I'm not sure what Oscar is having are syncopies. In the experience with our guys that had them, the syncopies were just them kind of falling down and fainting...not any other distress to their bodies.

        I think I might talk to a specialist if you can, if you have one around where you live...someone like a neurologist or at least an internist that specializes in seizure type problems.

        I may be totally off base with all this...but this is just how it was for my guys. But I think if I were you, I'd consult with someone about the possibility that these are seizures and not syncopies...never hurts to get another opinion.

        take care,
        Carol and Angel Snowball
        and the gang
      • Carol
        When Mellie had her 5 episodes of whatever that one day back in early May of 2008 she would cry a few times just a little mournful cry, she d walk in a
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 28, 2011
          When Mellie had her 5 "episodes" of whatever that one day back in early May of 2008 she would cry a few times just a little mournful cry, she'd walk in a circle, salivate, and slowly collapse down to be on her side, I do recall she was breathing fast too. No leg movements at all. After the first event I quickly called her regular vet to find he was not in that day. I then called the acupuncture vet and rushed her to him. He did a chest xray as she sounded like she was drowning - it was clear. He did bloodwork - normal except for bun elevated 1 pt above normal. He gave her a low dose injection of an antinausea med ( -promazine of some sort). He commented on hearing a grade III heart murmur and suggested we have an US on her heart at another clinic.

          When we got her home she was unable to get herself out of the carrier, took her about 10 minutes... and within a few minutes of being out, she had another episode (5p)... then another 2 hrs later (7p)...and another 2 hrs later (9p). The vet had called at 8p to see how she was and when he heard she'd repeated it he said she must be having seizures, to take her to the emergency clinic if she did it again, so we took her to the ER after the 9p one. They put in an IV and when she had another at 11p they gave her valium IV. The ER vet was with her when she had that last episode and even when she was seeing it happen, she was not able to say whether it was syncope or seizure!

          As it turns out - Mellie had a very high normal heart rate of 220+ beats per minute. We took her to a cardiologist (it took 3 wks to get her in with him) and he discovered the high hr as well as dx her with cardiomyopathy without hypertrophy. She had suffered physical after effects from the episodes that day (difficulty walking, could not keep food in her mouth, etc.) and we were referred to a neurologist. The neuro exam was a month later... she was found to have left forebrain injury from either an accident/fall, seizure (doubtful as she'd not had another after that one day), tumor, unmasked birth defect, or stroke. On recheck 2 months later, neuro then gave the dx of stroke as she'd improved so very much. She still has signs of the brain damage but she is able to eat on her own. Thank goodness she's had no more episodes!

          Mellie's high heart rate was causing the heart to not empty properly and her organs were not receiving the necessary amount of blood to function properly. During the month waiting to see cardiologist she had gone into renal failure which we are still dealing with.

          Sorry my reply is so long but I wanted to give her story. If your kitty is not being seen by a cardiologist then that would be very helpful... plus a neuro evaluation would be excellent.

          carol and mellie



          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "C.R." <carolroar@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Marcia,
          >
          > What you described doesn't sound like a syncope to me. My angel Sweetie had syncopies, so did Snowball, and when it happened to them, all that happened was they "fainted"...in their tracks. Wherever they were or whatever they were doing, they just would collapse on the spot. There wasn't any open mouth or heavy breathing, just them being like they were out cold for a short while. Then they'd get up after they "woke up" and it was business as usual.
          >
          > What you described with the breathing, sounds more to me like some kind of seizure. My angel dog Fritzy had seizures that were brought on from her liver disease, and she would do that...the heavy breathing, and she'd also kind of flail her legs. Snowball had a seizure caused from a drug interaction with Mirtazapine and Tapazole (never give the two together - the Tapazole inhibits the enzymes necessary to clear the Mirtazapine out of the liver, causing a toxic liver situation and that in turn can cause seizures). When Snowball had the seizure it was her falling down on her side, flailing her legs, open mouth breathing... we thought she was dying. After about five minutes, she recovered slowly and was okay after about another half hour. It was really scarey. It sounds like what Oscar experiences.
          >
          > I'm not sure what Oscar is having are syncopies. In the experience with our guys that had them, the syncopies were just them kind of falling down and fainting...not any other distress to their bodies.
          >
          > I think I might talk to a specialist if you can, if you have one around where you live...someone like a neurologist or at least an internist that specializes in seizure type problems.
          >
          > I may be totally off base with all this...but this is just how it was for my guys. But I think if I were you, I'd consult with someone about the possibility that these are seizures and not syncopies...never hurts to get another opinion.
          >
          > take care,
          > Carol and Angel Snowball
          > and the gang
          >
        • LorieAHuston@cs.com
          I apologize for being a bit late in responding to this. It s quite difficult to tell whether the episode that Marcia describes was syncope or a seizure. I
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 28, 2011
            I apologize for being a bit late in responding to this. It's quite difficult to tell whether the episode that Marcia describes was syncope or a seizure. I think either is possible and the two can appear very similar to one another. If a similar episode occurs, it might be helpful to videotape it if you can and show the video to your veterinarians. Sometimes this can be helpful in sorting things out. As Carol stated, I would definitely recommend seeing a cardiologist to have her heart re-evaluated. A neurologist or at least a neuro exam performed by your regular vet is also in order.

            Lorie Huston, DVM
            www.pet-health-care-gazette.com










            -----Original Message-----
            From: Carol <czyonov@...>
            To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Fri, Jan 28, 2011 10:53 am
            Subject: [FH] Re: Oscar had a syncope last night





            When Mellie had her 5 "episodes" of whatever that one day back in early May of 2008 she would cry a few times just a little mournful cry, she'd walk in a circle, salivate, and slowly collapse down to be on her side, I do recall she was breathing fast too. No leg movements at all. After the first event I quickly called her regular vet to find he was not in that day. I then called the acupuncture vet and rushed her to him. He did a chest xray as she sounded like she was drowning - it was clear. He did bloodwork - normal except for bun elevated 1 pt above normal. He gave her a low dose injection of an antinausea med ( -promazine of some sort). He commented on hearing a grade III heart murmur and suggested we have an US on her heart at another clinic.

            When we got her home she was unable to get herself out of the carrier, took her about 10 minutes... and within a few minutes of being out, she had another episode (5p)... then another 2 hrs later (7p)...and another 2 hrs later (9p). The vet had called at 8p to see how she was and when he heard she'd repeated it he said she must be having seizures, to take her to the emergency clinic if she did it again, so we took her to the ER after the 9p one. They put in an IV and when she had another at 11p they gave her valium IV. The ER vet was with her when she had that last episode and even when she was seeing it happen, she was not able to say whether it was syncope or seizure!

            As it turns out - Mellie had a very high normal heart rate of 220+ beats per minute. We took her to a cardiologist (it took 3 wks to get her in with him) and he discovered the high hr as well as dx her with cardiomyopathy without hypertrophy. She had suffered physical after effects from the episodes that day (difficulty walking, could not keep food in her mouth, etc.) and we were referred to a neurologist. The neuro exam was a month later... she was found to have left forebrain injury from either an accident/fall, seizure (doubtful as she'd not had another after that one day), tumor, unmasked birth defect, or stroke. On recheck 2 months later, neuro then gave the dx of stroke as she'd improved so very much. She still has signs of the brain damage but she is able to eat on her own. Thank goodness she's had no more episodes!

            Mellie's high heart rate was causing the heart to not empty properly and her organs were not receiving the necessary amount of blood to function properly. During the month waiting to see cardiologist she had gone into renal failure which we are still dealing with.

            Sorry my reply is so long but I wanted to give her story. If your kitty is not being seen by a cardiologist then that would be very helpful... plus a neuro evaluation would be excellent.

            carol and mellie

            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "C.R." <carolroar@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Marcia,
            >
            > What you described doesn't sound like a syncope to me. My angel Sweetie had syncopies, so did Snowball, and when it happened to them, all that happened was they "fainted"...in their tracks. Wherever they were or whatever they were doing, they just would collapse on the spot. There wasn't any open mouth or heavy breathing, just them being like they were out cold for a short while. Then they'd get up after they "woke up" and it was business as usual.
            >
            > What you described with the breathing, sounds more to me like some kind of seizure. My angel dog Fritzy had seizures that were brought on from her liver disease, and she would do that...the heavy breathing, and she'd also kind of flail her legs. Snowball had a seizure caused from a drug interaction with Mirtazapine and Tapazole (never give the two together - the Tapazole inhibits the enzymes necessary to clear the Mirtazapine out of the liver, causing a toxic liver situation and that in turn can cause seizures). When Snowball had the seizure it was her falling down on her side, flailing her legs, open mouth breathing... we thought she was dying. After about five minutes, she recovered slowly and was okay after about another half hour. It was really scarey. It sounds like what Oscar experiences.
            >
            > I'm not sure what Oscar is having are syncopies. In the experience with our guys that had them, the syncopies were just them kind of falling down and fainting...not any other distress to their bodies.
            >
            > I think I might talk to a specialist if you can, if you have one around where you live...someone like a neurologist or at least an internist that specializes in seizure type problems.
            >
            > I may be totally off base with all this...but this is just how it was for my guys. But I think if I were you, I'd consult with someone about the possibility that these are seizures and not syncopies...never hurts to get another opinion.
            >
            > take care,
            > Carol and Angel Snowball
            > and the gang
            >








            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • LorieAHuston@cs.com
            Oops, meant to say him, not her. Sorry! ... From: LorieAHuston To: czyonov ; feline-heart
            Message 5 of 5 , Jan 28, 2011
              Oops, meant to say him, not her. Sorry!








              -----Original Message-----
              From: LorieAHuston <LorieAHuston@...>
              To: czyonov <czyonov@...>; feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Fri, Jan 28, 2011 11:25 pm
              Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Oscar had a syncope last night






              I apologize for being a bit late in responding to this. It's quite difficult to tell whether the episode that Marcia describes was syncope or a seizure. I think either is possible and the two can appear very similar to one another. If a similar episode occurs, it might be helpful to videotape it if you can and show the video to your veterinarians. Sometimes this can be helpful in sorting things out. As Carol stated, I would definitely recommend seeing a cardiologist to have her heart re-evaluated. A neurologist or at least a neuro exam performed by your regular vet is also in order.

              Lorie Huston, DVM
              www.pet-health-care-gazette.com

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Carol <czyonov@...>
              To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Fri, Jan 28, 2011 10:53 am
              Subject: [FH] Re: Oscar had a syncope last night

              When Mellie had her 5 "episodes" of whatever that one day back in early May of 2008 she would cry a few times just a little mournful cry, she'd walk in a circle, salivate, and slowly collapse down to be on her side, I do recall she was breathing fast too. No leg movements at all. After the first event I quickly called her regular vet to find he was not in that day. I then called the acupuncture vet and rushed her to him. He did a chest xray as she sounded like she was drowning - it was clear. He did bloodwork - normal except for bun elevated 1 pt above normal. He gave her a low dose injection of an antinausea med ( -promazine of some sort). He commented on hearing a grade III heart murmur and suggested we have an US on her heart at another clinic.

              When we got her home she was unable to get herself out of the carrier, took her about 10 minutes... and within a few minutes of being out, she had another episode (5p)... then another 2 hrs later (7p)...and another 2 hrs later (9p). The vet had called at 8p to see how she was and when he heard she'd repeated it he said she must be having seizures, to take her to the emergency clinic if she did it again, so we took her to the ER after the 9p one. They put in an IV and when she had another at 11p they gave her valium IV. The ER vet was with her when she had that last episode and even when she was seeing it happen, she was not able to say whether it was syncope or seizure!

              As it turns out - Mellie had a very high normal heart rate of 220+ beats per minute. We took her to a cardiologist (it took 3 wks to get her in with him) and he discovered the high hr as well as dx her with cardiomyopathy without hypertrophy. She had suffered physical after effects from the episodes that day (difficulty walking, could not keep food in her mouth, etc.) and we were referred to a neurologist. The neuro exam was a month later... she was found to have left forebrain injury from either an accident/fall, seizure (doubtful as she'd not had another after that one day), tumor, unmasked birth defect, or stroke. On recheck 2 months later, neuro then gave the dx of stroke as she'd improved so very much. She still has signs of the brain damage but she is able to eat on her own. Thank goodness she's had no more episodes!

              Mellie's high heart rate was causing the heart to not empty properly and her organs were not receiving the necessary amount of blood to function properly. During the month waiting to see cardiologist she had gone into renal failure which we are still dealing with.

              Sorry my reply is so long but I wanted to give her story. If your kitty is not being seen by a cardiologist then that would be very helpful... plus a neuro evaluation would be excellent.

              carol and mellie

              --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "C.R." <carolroar@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Marcia,
              >
              > What you described doesn't sound like a syncope to me. My angel Sweetie had syncopies, so did Snowball, and when it happened to them, all that happened was they "fainted"...in their tracks. Wherever they were or whatever they were doing, they just would collapse on the spot. There wasn't any open mouth or heavy breathing, just them being like they were out cold for a short while. Then they'd get up after they "woke up" and it was business as usual.
              >
              > What you described with the breathing, sounds more to me like some kind of seizure. My angel dog Fritzy had seizures that were brought on from her liver disease, and she would do that...the heavy breathing, and she'd also kind of flail her legs. Snowball had a seizure caused from a drug interaction with Mirtazapine and Tapazole (never give the two together - the Tapazole inhibits the enzymes necessary to clear the Mirtazapine out of the liver, causing a toxic liver situation and that in turn can cause seizures). When Snowball had the seizure it was her falling down on her side, flailing her legs, open mouth breathing... we thought she was dying. After about five minutes, she recovered slowly and was okay after about another half hour. It was really scarey. It sounds like what Oscar experiences.
              >
              > I'm not sure what Oscar is having are syncopies. In the experience with our guys that had them, the syncopies were just them kind of falling down and fainting...not any other distress to their bodies.
              >
              > I think I might talk to a specialist if you can, if you have one around where you live...someone like a neurologist or at least an internist that specializes in seizure type problems.
              >
              > I may be totally off base with all this...but this is just how it was for my guys. But I think if I were you, I'd consult with someone about the possibility that these are seizures and not syncopies...never hurts to get another opinion.
              >
              > take care,
              > Carol and Angel Snowball
              > and the gang
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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