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RE: [FH] Please help me... in a panic

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  • Judi Levens
    I m not trying to panic anyone, but just reaffirming what several other people have said...it s important information to pass on, and I think that s what we re
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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      I'm not trying to panic anyone, but just reaffirming what several other people have said...it's important information to pass on, and I think that's what we're here for? I wish I had known, although for me I didn't know Max had heart disease at the time he was administered steroids, so it wouldn't have helped. Judi and Max







      To: casaobelisco@...; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      From: npumie@...
      Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 09:11:48 -0500
      Subject: Re: [FH] Please help me... in a panic






      And my regular vet does know about steroids and heart kitties. Again, not
      everyone�s experience is the same and neither is every cat�s condition. My
      point is there�s no reason to panic someone.

      Sue & Boo

      On 1/3/11 8:22 AM, "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...> wrote:

      > In my experience the regular vet didn't know that steroids are bad for heart
      > kitties...I found out here and the cardiologist confirmed it, so be
      > careful...do some research and present it to the doctor. There is a case
      > study here of cats who went into CHF after being administered steroids...I
      > don't know how to find it though. This is what happened to Max also, and
      > thank goodness he recovered, but it was a real touch and go...good luck.
      > Judi and Max

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Suzianne Painter-Thorne
      I didn¹t say you were trying to panic anyone. But that doesn¹t change that she was in fact panicked. I¹ve received the same emails telling me the perils of
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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        I didn¹t say you were trying to panic anyone. But that doesn¹t change that
        she was in fact panicked. I¹ve received the same emails telling me the
        perils of steroids. I appreciate the information, but never the tone of
        ³YOU¹RE GOING TO KILL YOUR CAT!² that all too often comes with it. Even
        though I know it is coming from someone who just wants to share and help, it
        does actually panic people to read things like that. And panic isn¹t going
        to help anyone.

        While I appreciate the support and information on this list, like all such
        lists people have a tendency to project all their experiences to every other
        cat even though they¹re not vets and haven¹t examined the cat. According to
        my cat¹s regular vet and her cardiologist, there is a difference between
        injectable and oral steroids when it comes to heart cats, but that
        distinction is always left out of the alarm bells. So I offered my
        experience that my cat was fine after taking steroids twice as a counter
        story to those who¹d told her her cat would die. My experience doesn¹t prove
        her cat will be okay, but it does suggest that steroids aren¹t the death
        sentence they are all too often portrayed to be.

        Sue & Boo


        On 1/3/11 9:17 AM, "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...> wrote:

        > I'm not trying to panic anyone, but just reaffirming what several other people
        > have said...it's important information to pass on, and I think that's what
        > we're here for? I wish I had known, although for me I didn't know Max had
        > heart disease at the time he was administered steroids, so it wouldn't have
        > helped. Judi and Max



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Melissa Legan
        I think Judi was just trying to relay the importantance of being aware of the effects. My Winston was adminstired ORAL steriods and DID go into CHF. I think
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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          I think Judi was just trying to relay the importantance of being aware of the effects. My Winston was adminstired ORAL steriods and DID go into CHF. I think the severity of the heart disease also plays a role. Winston has end stage heart disease....very severe HCM with mitral value displysia and conduction distrubance pattern (AV ans sinus). So, i think that the steriods proved to be too much, and caused the CHF. There is a WONDERFUL copy of the study performed on the internet- just google it. EVEN cats without heart diease went into idopathic heart failure after the ADMINISTRATION of steriods.
           
           
          Please keep in mind, every cat is different. Steriods are in fact very dangerous for heart kitties. Just because one cat didnt go into CHF after steriods does not put to rest the fact that steriods in heart kitties have been studied extensively (oral and injectable).
           
          If you have questions about steriods and CHF ask your vet, I dont think any of us should make judgment on the reaction that any of our kitties should have or could have. We ARENT vets (to my knowledge). The best advice is- call your vet, tell him you have concerns and leave it at that.
           
          M

          --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Suzianne Painter-Thorne <npumie@...> wrote:


          From: Suzianne Painter-Thorne <npumie@...>
          Subject: Re: [FH] Please help me... in a panic
          To: "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...>, feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 9:26 AM


           



          I didn¹t say you were trying to panic anyone. But that doesn¹t change that
          she was in fact panicked. I¹ve received the same emails telling me the
          perils of steroids. I appreciate the information, but never the tone of
          ³YOU¹RE GOING TO KILL YOUR CAT!² that all too often comes with it. Even
          though I know it is coming from someone who just wants to share and help, it
          does actually panic people to read things like that. And panic isn¹t going
          to help anyone.

          While I appreciate the support and information on this list, like all such
          lists people have a tendency to project all their experiences to every other
          cat even though they¹re not vets and haven¹t examined the cat. According to
          my cat¹s regular vet and her cardiologist, there is a difference between
          injectable and oral steroids when it comes to heart cats, but that
          distinction is always left out of the alarm bells. So I offered my
          experience that my cat was fine after taking steroids twice as a counter
          story to those who¹d told her her cat would die. My experience doesn¹t prove
          her cat will be okay, but it does suggest that steroids aren¹t the death
          sentence they are all too often portrayed to be.

          Sue & Boo

          On 1/3/11 9:17 AM, "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...> wrote:

          > I'm not trying to panic anyone, but just reaffirming what several other people
          > have said...it's important information to pass on, and I think that's what
          > we're here for? I wish I had known, although for me I didn't know Max had
          > heart disease at the time he was administered steroids, so it wouldn't have
          > helped. Judi and Max

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Suzianne Painter-Thorne
          I GET that it what she is doing. And since Lora had written that she was in a panic over it, I m pretty sure she already knew the importance of being aware.
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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            I GET that it what she is doing. And since Lora had written that she was in
            a panic over it, I'm pretty sure she already knew the importance of being
            aware.

            I'm not sure what you're really disagreeing with. I said my experience did
            not prove they were not a problem for her cat. And I also said she should
            speak to her vet. That every cat is different. That we are not vets. I
            didn't use all caps for it, but I said the same thing.

            If you're talking about this study:
            http://jarvm.com/articles/Vol2Iss3/TOBIASJARVMVol2No304.pdf, that report
            concludes that "CHF should be listed as a potential adverse effect of
            corticosteroid administration in cats." It doesn't say always, it says
            potential.

            And, the thing is, that study's sample started with only cats who had been
            diagnosed with CHF. It did not look at all the cats given steroids to
            determine the risk of CHF. Instead, it looked only at cats who had already
            developed CHF and considered how many had done so within a certain time of
            getting steroids. It excluded cats who'd been on steroids for months or
            years prior to CHF. And--most important--it did not look at the number of
            cats who are on steroids who did or did not go into CHF, which would be an
            entirely different study and would actually give more answers about the
            risks of steroids themselves.

            So yes, speak to your vet about it. But don't get into a panic and don't
            cause someone else to panic by telling them they're killing their cat by
            giving steroids.

            Sue & Boo

            On 1/3/11 9:40 AM, "Melissa Legan" <smittyhj82@...> wrote:

            > I think Judi was just trying to relay the importantance of being aware of the
            > effects. My Winston was adminstired ORAL steriods and DID go into CHF. I think
            > the severity of the heart disease also plays a role. Winston has end stage
            > heart disease....very severe HCM with mitral value displysia and conduction
            > distrubance pattern (AV ans sinus). So, i think that the steriods proved to be
            > too much, and caused the CHF. There is a WONDERFUL copy of the study performed
            > on the internet- just google it. EVEN cats without heart diease went into
            > idopathic heart failure after the ADMINISTRATION of steriods.
            >  
            > Please keep in mind, every cat is different. Steriods are in fact very
            > dangerous for heart kitties. Just because one cat didnt go into CHF after
            > steriods does not put to rest the fact that steriods in heart kitties have
            > been studied extensively (oral and injectable).
            >  
            > If you have questions about steriods and CHF ask your vet, I dont think any of
            > us should make judgment on the reaction that any of our kitties should have or
            > could have. We ARENT vets (to my knowledge). The best advice is- call your
            > vet, tell him you have concerns and leave it at that.
          • Melissa Legan
            OK, I think this is enough.   People are here to share their expereinces. Steriods are a very serious issue and I think Judi and I feel this way because we
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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              OK, I think this is enough.
               
              People are here to share their expereinces. Steriods are a very serious issue and I think Judi and I feel this way because we almost lost our kitties because of it. Losing my Winston will be like losing a child.
               
              Sorry that we feel strongly about a very serious situation. No one wanted to panic anyone.
               
              Nothing in the realm of heart disease should be taken lightly, and Judi and I probably feel this way given what our kitties have been through. My Winston is one of the most complicated and serious cases ever seen by my cardio.
               
               
              Melissa

              --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Suzianne Painter-Thorne <npumie@...> wrote:


              From: Suzianne Painter-Thorne <npumie@...>
              Subject: Re: [FH] Please help me... in a panic
              To: "Melissa Legan" <smittyhj82@...>, "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...>, feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 10:18 AM


              I GET that it what she is doing. And since Lora had written that she was in
              a panic over it, I'm pretty sure she already knew the importance of being
              aware.

              I'm not sure what you're really disagreeing with. I  said my experience did
              not prove they were not a problem for her cat. And I also said she should
              speak to her vet. That every cat is different. That we are not vets. I
              didn't use all caps for it, but I said the same thing.

              If you're talking about this study:
              http://jarvm.com/articles/Vol2Iss3/TOBIASJARVMVol2No304.pdf, that report
              concludes that "CHF should be listed as a potential adverse effect of
              corticosteroid administration in cats." It doesn't say always, it says
              potential.

              And, the thing is, that study's sample started with only cats who had been
              diagnosed with CHF. It did not look at all the cats given steroids to
              determine the risk of CHF. Instead, it looked only at cats who had already
              developed CHF and considered how many had done so within a certain time of
              getting steroids. It excluded cats who'd been on steroids for months or
              years prior to CHF. And--most important--it did not look at the number of
              cats who are on steroids who did or did not go into CHF, which would be an
              entirely different study and would actually give more answers about the
              risks of steroids themselves.

              So yes, speak to your vet about it. But don't get into a panic and don't
              cause someone else to panic by telling them they're killing their cat by
              giving steroids.

              Sue & Boo

              On 1/3/11 9:40 AM, "Melissa Legan" <smittyhj82@...> wrote:

              > I think Judi was just trying to relay the importantance of being aware of the
              > effects. My Winston was adminstired ORAL steriods and DID go into CHF. I think
              > the severity of the heart disease also plays a role. Winston has end stage
              > heart disease....very severe HCM with mitral value displysia and conduction
              > distrubance pattern (AV ans sinus). So, i think that the steriods proved to be
              > too much, and caused the CHF. There is a WONDERFUL copy of the study performed
              > on the internet- just google it. EVEN cats without heart diease went into
              > idopathic heart failure after the ADMINISTRATION of steriods.
              >  
              > Please keep in mind, every cat is different. Steriods are in fact very
              > dangerous for heart kitties. Just because one cat didnt go into CHF after
              > steriods does not put to rest the fact that steriods in heart kitties have
              > been studied extensively (oral and injectable).
              >  
              > If you have questions about steriods and CHF ask your vet, I dont think any of
              > us should make judgment on the reaction that any of our kitties should have or
              > could have. We ARENT vets (to my knowledge). The best advice is- call your
              > vet, tell him you have concerns and leave it at that.







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Suzianne Painter-Thorne
              Please don t suggest I m saying anyone should take anything to do with heart disease or their cats lightly. I have not done this or come close to suggesting
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                Please don't suggest I'm saying anyone should take anything to do with heart
                disease or their cats lightly. I have not done this or come close to
                suggesting it. I have not said heart disease is not a serious situation. I
                have shared my experience, which you acknowledge people are here to do. As a
                member of this list, I assume I am allowed to do so as well.

                And I feel strongly about this too. I have been advised by people on this
                list to ignore a health problem my cat was having--one that was putting her
                life at risk--because of their fear of steroids because of their experience
                with their cats.

                Everyone on this list feels strongly about their cats and my assumption is
                that for all of us the loss of our cat is the loss of a beloved child. I
                also assume everyone is trying to do the best she or he can for their cat.
                That goes for those I agree and disagree with.

                Sue & Boo


                On 1/3/11 10:42 AM, "Melissa Legan" <smittyhj82@...> wrote:

                > OK, I think this is enough.
                >  
                > People are here to share their expereinces. Steriods are a very serious issue
                > and I think Judi and I feel this way because we almost lost our kitties
                > because of it. Losing my Winston will be like losing a child.
                >  
                > Sorry that we feel strongly about a very serious situation. No one wanted to
                > panic anyone.
                >  
                > Nothing in the realm of heart disease should be taken lightly, and Judi and I
                > probably feel this way given what our kitties have been through. My Winston is
                > one of the most complicated and serious cases ever seen by my cardio.
              • Mmayer11
                Please everyone let s take Sue s words as the end of this subject. We are back going in circles. Let s try starting the New Year giving this topic a rest. Ir s
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                  Please everyone let's take Sue's words as the end of this subject. We are back going in circles. Let's try starting the New Year giving this topic a rest. Ir's unhelpful to drag this on.


                  Sue wrote:for all of us the loss of our cat is the loss of a beloved child. I
                  also assume everyone is trying to do the best she or he can for their cat.
                  That goes for those I agree and disagree with.





                  Marianna








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                • Patti Thomas
                  From Washington State University regarding HCM research in Sphynx. The following is from Dr.Kate Meurs: We have had a fabulous response to our request for
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                    From Washington State University regarding HCM research in Sphynx.

                    The following is from Dr.Kate Meurs:

                    We have had a fabulous response to our request for samples and they have really
                    been coming in! The company that makes the feline array is running behind
                    schedule so we still have time to collect both affected and unaffected samples
                    and would still really like them! We will start looking at some new genes next
                    week so we can keep progressing while we wait for the array.

                    Also , we really need some heart tissue samples (just a few) from affected and
                    unaffected cats. If someone is unfortunate enough to be putting their HCM
                    affected cat or older (at least 8 years of age) to sleep it would be extremely
                    helpful if we could ask the veterinarian to save a small section of the heart
                    for us? It does have to be specially preserved in a solution from us, but we
                    could fedex the solution for next day arrival to your veterinarian. At this
                    point we have ruled out many genes but have not found anything and being able to
                    exam the tissue may be very helpful. We don't need very many so if even 3-4
                    people can help us it may be enough!

                    Thank you!
                    Kate






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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