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Re: [FH] Please help me... in a panic

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  • Suzianne Painter-Thorne
    I m sure it does depend on the cat and the cat s condition, which the cat s vet is probably in the best position to assess. I m not suggesting anyone trust
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 2, 2011
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      I'm sure it does depend on the cat and the cat's condition, which the cat's
      vet is probably in the best position to assess.

      I'm not suggesting anyone trust their vet's advice as holy writ, it's always
      good to be informed and to ask questions. At the same time, because one
      medication adversely affected another person's cat does not mean it will so
      affect every cat or any other particular cat.

      Sue & Boo

      On 1/2/11 9:04 PM, "C.R." <carolroar@...> wrote:

      > I think it all depends on each individual kitty. My angel Sweetie took oral
      > prednisone and it wasn't good for her. So I think you definitely should talk
      > to your vet about it all in the morning and get their input.
      >
      > Carol and Angel Snowball
      > and the gang
    • elfinmyst@aol.com
      Hi I agree that you must speak to your vet about this. The most important thing is the ultrasound. If Mars has any sign of fluid on the lungs the steroids
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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        Hi

        I agree that you must speak to your vet about this. The most important
        thing is the ultrasound. If Mars has any sign of fluid on the lungs the
        steroids could push him into heart failure. I understand your dilemma. Mars has
        complicated problems, as did my Tess.

        She had advanced HCM, kidney disease and crippling arthritis. She took
        prednisolone and painkillers after all other options were tried. She died of
        kidney failure but her last few months were happy and pain free. Quality of
        life is the most important thing. And fluid on the lungs is not quality,
        it's unpleasant and frightening. That has to be dealt with first. A vet would
        be able to tell you if Mars has fluid on the lungs by stethoscope and the
        ultrasound will certainly give a diagnosis.

        I would look into alternative options for IBD, such as allergy testing and
        diet changes. It may be Mars is intolerant to certain foods. Avoid milk.
        Has he had a stool test to rule out a parasitic infection? Trixis' bowel
        problems were found to be tritrichomonas.

        You must be in a whirl right now, with all this advice and suggestions.
        Read through them carefully when you're relaxed and write down a list of
        questions for the cardiologist and vet. Then work together for the best
        combination to give Mars a comfortable and happy life.

        Lyn:)

        _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Judi Levens
        In my experience the regular vet didn t know that steroids are bad for heart kitties...I found out here and the cardiologist confirmed it, so be careful...do
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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          In my experience the regular vet didn't know that steroids are bad for heart kitties...I found out here and the cardiologist confirmed it, so be careful...do some research and present it to the doctor. There is a case study here of cats who went into CHF after being administered steroids...I don't know how to find it though. This is what happened to Max also, and thank goodness he recovered, but it was a real touch and go...good luck.
          Judi and Max










          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          From: npumie@...
          Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 21:19:15 -0500
          Subject: Re: [FH] Please help me... in a panic






          I'm sure it does depend on the cat and the cat's condition, which the cat's
          vet is probably in the best position to assess.

          I'm not suggesting anyone trust their vet's advice as holy writ, it's always
          good to be informed and to ask questions. At the same time, because one
          medication adversely affected another person's cat does not mean it will so
          affect every cat or any other particular cat.

          Sue & Boo

          On 1/2/11 9:04 PM, "C.R." <carolroar@...> wrote:

          > I think it all depends on each individual kitty. My angel Sweetie took oral
          > prednisone and it wasn't good for her. So I think you definitely should talk
          > to your vet about it all in the morning and get their input.
          >
          > Carol and Angel Snowball
          > and the gang





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Suzianne Painter-Thorne
          And my regular vet does know about steroids and heart kitties. Again, not everyone¹s experience is the same and neither is every cat¹s condition. My point is
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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            And my regular vet does know about steroids and heart kitties. Again, not
            everyone¹s experience is the same and neither is every cat¹s condition. My
            point is there¹s no reason to panic someone.

            Sue & Boo


            On 1/3/11 8:22 AM, "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...> wrote:

            > In my experience the regular vet didn't know that steroids are bad for heart
            > kitties...I found out here and the cardiologist confirmed it, so be
            > careful...do some research and present it to the doctor. There is a case
            > study here of cats who went into CHF after being administered steroids...I
            > don't know how to find it though. This is what happened to Max also, and
            > thank goodness he recovered, but it was a real touch and go...good luck.
            > Judi and Max



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Judi Levens
            I m not trying to panic anyone, but just reaffirming what several other people have said...it s important information to pass on, and I think that s what we re
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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              I'm not trying to panic anyone, but just reaffirming what several other people have said...it's important information to pass on, and I think that's what we're here for? I wish I had known, although for me I didn't know Max had heart disease at the time he was administered steroids, so it wouldn't have helped. Judi and Max







              To: casaobelisco@...; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              From: npumie@...
              Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 09:11:48 -0500
              Subject: Re: [FH] Please help me... in a panic






              And my regular vet does know about steroids and heart kitties. Again, not
              everyone�s experience is the same and neither is every cat�s condition. My
              point is there�s no reason to panic someone.

              Sue & Boo

              On 1/3/11 8:22 AM, "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...> wrote:

              > In my experience the regular vet didn't know that steroids are bad for heart
              > kitties...I found out here and the cardiologist confirmed it, so be
              > careful...do some research and present it to the doctor. There is a case
              > study here of cats who went into CHF after being administered steroids...I
              > don't know how to find it though. This is what happened to Max also, and
              > thank goodness he recovered, but it was a real touch and go...good luck.
              > Judi and Max

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Suzianne Painter-Thorne
              I didn¹t say you were trying to panic anyone. But that doesn¹t change that she was in fact panicked. I¹ve received the same emails telling me the perils of
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                I didn¹t say you were trying to panic anyone. But that doesn¹t change that
                she was in fact panicked. I¹ve received the same emails telling me the
                perils of steroids. I appreciate the information, but never the tone of
                ³YOU¹RE GOING TO KILL YOUR CAT!² that all too often comes with it. Even
                though I know it is coming from someone who just wants to share and help, it
                does actually panic people to read things like that. And panic isn¹t going
                to help anyone.

                While I appreciate the support and information on this list, like all such
                lists people have a tendency to project all their experiences to every other
                cat even though they¹re not vets and haven¹t examined the cat. According to
                my cat¹s regular vet and her cardiologist, there is a difference between
                injectable and oral steroids when it comes to heart cats, but that
                distinction is always left out of the alarm bells. So I offered my
                experience that my cat was fine after taking steroids twice as a counter
                story to those who¹d told her her cat would die. My experience doesn¹t prove
                her cat will be okay, but it does suggest that steroids aren¹t the death
                sentence they are all too often portrayed to be.

                Sue & Boo


                On 1/3/11 9:17 AM, "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...> wrote:

                > I'm not trying to panic anyone, but just reaffirming what several other people
                > have said...it's important information to pass on, and I think that's what
                > we're here for? I wish I had known, although for me I didn't know Max had
                > heart disease at the time he was administered steroids, so it wouldn't have
                > helped. Judi and Max



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Melissa Legan
                I think Judi was just trying to relay the importantance of being aware of the effects. My Winston was adminstired ORAL steriods and DID go into CHF. I think
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                  I think Judi was just trying to relay the importantance of being aware of the effects. My Winston was adminstired ORAL steriods and DID go into CHF. I think the severity of the heart disease also plays a role. Winston has end stage heart disease....very severe HCM with mitral value displysia and conduction distrubance pattern (AV ans sinus). So, i think that the steriods proved to be too much, and caused the CHF. There is a WONDERFUL copy of the study performed on the internet- just google it. EVEN cats without heart diease went into idopathic heart failure after the ADMINISTRATION of steriods.
                   
                   
                  Please keep in mind, every cat is different. Steriods are in fact very dangerous for heart kitties. Just because one cat didnt go into CHF after steriods does not put to rest the fact that steriods in heart kitties have been studied extensively (oral and injectable).
                   
                  If you have questions about steriods and CHF ask your vet, I dont think any of us should make judgment on the reaction that any of our kitties should have or could have. We ARENT vets (to my knowledge). The best advice is- call your vet, tell him you have concerns and leave it at that.
                   
                  M

                  --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Suzianne Painter-Thorne <npumie@...> wrote:


                  From: Suzianne Painter-Thorne <npumie@...>
                  Subject: Re: [FH] Please help me... in a panic
                  To: "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...>, feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 9:26 AM


                   



                  I didn¹t say you were trying to panic anyone. But that doesn¹t change that
                  she was in fact panicked. I¹ve received the same emails telling me the
                  perils of steroids. I appreciate the information, but never the tone of
                  ³YOU¹RE GOING TO KILL YOUR CAT!² that all too often comes with it. Even
                  though I know it is coming from someone who just wants to share and help, it
                  does actually panic people to read things like that. And panic isn¹t going
                  to help anyone.

                  While I appreciate the support and information on this list, like all such
                  lists people have a tendency to project all their experiences to every other
                  cat even though they¹re not vets and haven¹t examined the cat. According to
                  my cat¹s regular vet and her cardiologist, there is a difference between
                  injectable and oral steroids when it comes to heart cats, but that
                  distinction is always left out of the alarm bells. So I offered my
                  experience that my cat was fine after taking steroids twice as a counter
                  story to those who¹d told her her cat would die. My experience doesn¹t prove
                  her cat will be okay, but it does suggest that steroids aren¹t the death
                  sentence they are all too often portrayed to be.

                  Sue & Boo

                  On 1/3/11 9:17 AM, "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...> wrote:

                  > I'm not trying to panic anyone, but just reaffirming what several other people
                  > have said...it's important information to pass on, and I think that's what
                  > we're here for? I wish I had known, although for me I didn't know Max had
                  > heart disease at the time he was administered steroids, so it wouldn't have
                  > helped. Judi and Max

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Suzianne Painter-Thorne
                  I GET that it what she is doing. And since Lora had written that she was in a panic over it, I m pretty sure she already knew the importance of being aware.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                    I GET that it what she is doing. And since Lora had written that she was in
                    a panic over it, I'm pretty sure she already knew the importance of being
                    aware.

                    I'm not sure what you're really disagreeing with. I said my experience did
                    not prove they were not a problem for her cat. And I also said she should
                    speak to her vet. That every cat is different. That we are not vets. I
                    didn't use all caps for it, but I said the same thing.

                    If you're talking about this study:
                    http://jarvm.com/articles/Vol2Iss3/TOBIASJARVMVol2No304.pdf, that report
                    concludes that "CHF should be listed as a potential adverse effect of
                    corticosteroid administration in cats." It doesn't say always, it says
                    potential.

                    And, the thing is, that study's sample started with only cats who had been
                    diagnosed with CHF. It did not look at all the cats given steroids to
                    determine the risk of CHF. Instead, it looked only at cats who had already
                    developed CHF and considered how many had done so within a certain time of
                    getting steroids. It excluded cats who'd been on steroids for months or
                    years prior to CHF. And--most important--it did not look at the number of
                    cats who are on steroids who did or did not go into CHF, which would be an
                    entirely different study and would actually give more answers about the
                    risks of steroids themselves.

                    So yes, speak to your vet about it. But don't get into a panic and don't
                    cause someone else to panic by telling them they're killing their cat by
                    giving steroids.

                    Sue & Boo

                    On 1/3/11 9:40 AM, "Melissa Legan" <smittyhj82@...> wrote:

                    > I think Judi was just trying to relay the importantance of being aware of the
                    > effects. My Winston was adminstired ORAL steriods and DID go into CHF. I think
                    > the severity of the heart disease also plays a role. Winston has end stage
                    > heart disease....very severe HCM with mitral value displysia and conduction
                    > distrubance pattern (AV ans sinus). So, i think that the steriods proved to be
                    > too much, and caused the CHF. There is a WONDERFUL copy of the study performed
                    > on the internet- just google it. EVEN cats without heart diease went into
                    > idopathic heart failure after the ADMINISTRATION of steriods.
                    >  
                    > Please keep in mind, every cat is different. Steriods are in fact very
                    > dangerous for heart kitties. Just because one cat didnt go into CHF after
                    > steriods does not put to rest the fact that steriods in heart kitties have
                    > been studied extensively (oral and injectable).
                    >  
                    > If you have questions about steriods and CHF ask your vet, I dont think any of
                    > us should make judgment on the reaction that any of our kitties should have or
                    > could have. We ARENT vets (to my knowledge). The best advice is- call your
                    > vet, tell him you have concerns and leave it at that.
                  • Melissa Legan
                    OK, I think this is enough.   People are here to share their expereinces. Steriods are a very serious issue and I think Judi and I feel this way because we
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                      OK, I think this is enough.
                       
                      People are here to share their expereinces. Steriods are a very serious issue and I think Judi and I feel this way because we almost lost our kitties because of it. Losing my Winston will be like losing a child.
                       
                      Sorry that we feel strongly about a very serious situation. No one wanted to panic anyone.
                       
                      Nothing in the realm of heart disease should be taken lightly, and Judi and I probably feel this way given what our kitties have been through. My Winston is one of the most complicated and serious cases ever seen by my cardio.
                       
                       
                      Melissa

                      --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Suzianne Painter-Thorne <npumie@...> wrote:


                      From: Suzianne Painter-Thorne <npumie@...>
                      Subject: Re: [FH] Please help me... in a panic
                      To: "Melissa Legan" <smittyhj82@...>, "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...>, feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 10:18 AM


                      I GET that it what she is doing. And since Lora had written that she was in
                      a panic over it, I'm pretty sure she already knew the importance of being
                      aware.

                      I'm not sure what you're really disagreeing with. I  said my experience did
                      not prove they were not a problem for her cat. And I also said she should
                      speak to her vet. That every cat is different. That we are not vets. I
                      didn't use all caps for it, but I said the same thing.

                      If you're talking about this study:
                      http://jarvm.com/articles/Vol2Iss3/TOBIASJARVMVol2No304.pdf, that report
                      concludes that "CHF should be listed as a potential adverse effect of
                      corticosteroid administration in cats." It doesn't say always, it says
                      potential.

                      And, the thing is, that study's sample started with only cats who had been
                      diagnosed with CHF. It did not look at all the cats given steroids to
                      determine the risk of CHF. Instead, it looked only at cats who had already
                      developed CHF and considered how many had done so within a certain time of
                      getting steroids. It excluded cats who'd been on steroids for months or
                      years prior to CHF. And--most important--it did not look at the number of
                      cats who are on steroids who did or did not go into CHF, which would be an
                      entirely different study and would actually give more answers about the
                      risks of steroids themselves.

                      So yes, speak to your vet about it. But don't get into a panic and don't
                      cause someone else to panic by telling them they're killing their cat by
                      giving steroids.

                      Sue & Boo

                      On 1/3/11 9:40 AM, "Melissa Legan" <smittyhj82@...> wrote:

                      > I think Judi was just trying to relay the importantance of being aware of the
                      > effects. My Winston was adminstired ORAL steriods and DID go into CHF. I think
                      > the severity of the heart disease also plays a role. Winston has end stage
                      > heart disease....very severe HCM with mitral value displysia and conduction
                      > distrubance pattern (AV ans sinus). So, i think that the steriods proved to be
                      > too much, and caused the CHF. There is a WONDERFUL copy of the study performed
                      > on the internet- just google it. EVEN cats without heart diease went into
                      > idopathic heart failure after the ADMINISTRATION of steriods.
                      >  
                      > Please keep in mind, every cat is different. Steriods are in fact very
                      > dangerous for heart kitties. Just because one cat didnt go into CHF after
                      > steriods does not put to rest the fact that steriods in heart kitties have
                      > been studied extensively (oral and injectable).
                      >  
                      > If you have questions about steriods and CHF ask your vet, I dont think any of
                      > us should make judgment on the reaction that any of our kitties should have or
                      > could have. We ARENT vets (to my knowledge). The best advice is- call your
                      > vet, tell him you have concerns and leave it at that.







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Suzianne Painter-Thorne
                      Please don t suggest I m saying anyone should take anything to do with heart disease or their cats lightly. I have not done this or come close to suggesting
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                        Please don't suggest I'm saying anyone should take anything to do with heart
                        disease or their cats lightly. I have not done this or come close to
                        suggesting it. I have not said heart disease is not a serious situation. I
                        have shared my experience, which you acknowledge people are here to do. As a
                        member of this list, I assume I am allowed to do so as well.

                        And I feel strongly about this too. I have been advised by people on this
                        list to ignore a health problem my cat was having--one that was putting her
                        life at risk--because of their fear of steroids because of their experience
                        with their cats.

                        Everyone on this list feels strongly about their cats and my assumption is
                        that for all of us the loss of our cat is the loss of a beloved child. I
                        also assume everyone is trying to do the best she or he can for their cat.
                        That goes for those I agree and disagree with.

                        Sue & Boo


                        On 1/3/11 10:42 AM, "Melissa Legan" <smittyhj82@...> wrote:

                        > OK, I think this is enough.
                        >  
                        > People are here to share their expereinces. Steriods are a very serious issue
                        > and I think Judi and I feel this way because we almost lost our kitties
                        > because of it. Losing my Winston will be like losing a child.
                        >  
                        > Sorry that we feel strongly about a very serious situation. No one wanted to
                        > panic anyone.
                        >  
                        > Nothing in the realm of heart disease should be taken lightly, and Judi and I
                        > probably feel this way given what our kitties have been through. My Winston is
                        > one of the most complicated and serious cases ever seen by my cardio.
                      • Mmayer11
                        Please everyone let s take Sue s words as the end of this subject. We are back going in circles. Let s try starting the New Year giving this topic a rest. Ir s
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                          Please everyone let's take Sue's words as the end of this subject. We are back going in circles. Let's try starting the New Year giving this topic a rest. Ir's unhelpful to drag this on.


                          Sue wrote:for all of us the loss of our cat is the loss of a beloved child. I
                          also assume everyone is trying to do the best she or he can for their cat.
                          That goes for those I agree and disagree with.





                          Marianna








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                        • Patti Thomas
                          From Washington State University regarding HCM research in Sphynx. The following is from Dr.Kate Meurs: We have had a fabulous response to our request for
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                            From Washington State University regarding HCM research in Sphynx.

                            The following is from Dr.Kate Meurs:

                            We have had a fabulous response to our request for samples and they have really
                            been coming in! The company that makes the feline array is running behind
                            schedule so we still have time to collect both affected and unaffected samples
                            and would still really like them! We will start looking at some new genes next
                            week so we can keep progressing while we wait for the array.

                            Also , we really need some heart tissue samples (just a few) from affected and
                            unaffected cats. If someone is unfortunate enough to be putting their HCM
                            affected cat or older (at least 8 years of age) to sleep it would be extremely
                            helpful if we could ask the veterinarian to save a small section of the heart
                            for us? It does have to be specially preserved in a solution from us, but we
                            could fedex the solution for next day arrival to your veterinarian. At this
                            point we have ruled out many genes but have not found anything and being able to
                            exam the tissue may be very helpful. We don't need very many so if even 3-4
                            people can help us it may be enough!

                            Thank you!
                            Kate






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