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Re: [FH] Please help me... in a panic

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  • Suzianne Painter-Thorne
    Is it oral or injectable prednisone? My heart kitty Boo has HCM and she also has other issues that have required that she take low doses of oral prednisone.
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 2, 2011
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      Is it oral or injectable prednisone? My heart kitty Boo has HCM and she also
      has other issues that have required that she take low doses of oral
      prednisone. She was FINE both times. Her vet said that injectable is to be
      avoided in heart kitties, but oral is okay to use.

      I too have gotten dire messages that I'm going to kill my cat by giving her
      this. But, they were wrong. She was fine. She didn't go into CHF. She just
      celebrated her fourth birthday yesterday.

      That being said, I do think it make sense to talk to your vet about your
      concerns. And don't abruptly stop the prednisone as I understand that can
      cause problems too.

      Sue & Boo

      On 1/2/11 6:17 PM, "HON3Ycomb" <hon3ycomb@...> wrote:

      > I have received two responses now that have me in a panic about Mars taking
      > Prednisone & Lasix... Will the Prednisone really kill him????
      >
      > I think I read of one other person on the IBD site that uses those two drugs
      > on their kitty. I think their kitty has lived an additional 2 years?? But I
      > can't be sure of that. I'll have to review the posts.
      >
      > Please someone reply to me. I'm in a panic. Mars is taking 10mg of Pred per
      > day along with the Lasix... His IBD is quite bad at this point, so maybe the
      > doctor is addressing that as being the most important thing right now.
      >
      > So worried now!
      > Please someone help me-
      > Lora
    • C.R.
      I think it all depends on each individual kitty. My angel Sweetie took oral prednisone and it wasn t good for her. So I think you definitely should talk to
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 2, 2011
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        I think it all depends on each individual kitty. My angel Sweetie took oral prednisone and it wasn't good for her. So I think you definitely should talk to your vet about it all in the morning and get their input.

        Carol and Angel Snowball
        and the gang


        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Suzianne Painter-Thorne <npumie@...> wrote:
        >
        > Is it oral or injectable prednisone? My heart kitty Boo has HCM and she also has other issues that have required that she take low doses of oral prednisone. She was FINE both times. Her vet said that injectable is to be avoided in heart kitties, but oral is okay to use.
      • Suzianne Painter-Thorne
        I m sure it does depend on the cat and the cat s condition, which the cat s vet is probably in the best position to assess. I m not suggesting anyone trust
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 2, 2011
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          I'm sure it does depend on the cat and the cat's condition, which the cat's
          vet is probably in the best position to assess.

          I'm not suggesting anyone trust their vet's advice as holy writ, it's always
          good to be informed and to ask questions. At the same time, because one
          medication adversely affected another person's cat does not mean it will so
          affect every cat or any other particular cat.

          Sue & Boo

          On 1/2/11 9:04 PM, "C.R." <carolroar@...> wrote:

          > I think it all depends on each individual kitty. My angel Sweetie took oral
          > prednisone and it wasn't good for her. So I think you definitely should talk
          > to your vet about it all in the morning and get their input.
          >
          > Carol and Angel Snowball
          > and the gang
        • elfinmyst@aol.com
          Hi I agree that you must speak to your vet about this. The most important thing is the ultrasound. If Mars has any sign of fluid on the lungs the steroids
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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            Hi

            I agree that you must speak to your vet about this. The most important
            thing is the ultrasound. If Mars has any sign of fluid on the lungs the
            steroids could push him into heart failure. I understand your dilemma. Mars has
            complicated problems, as did my Tess.

            She had advanced HCM, kidney disease and crippling arthritis. She took
            prednisolone and painkillers after all other options were tried. She died of
            kidney failure but her last few months were happy and pain free. Quality of
            life is the most important thing. And fluid on the lungs is not quality,
            it's unpleasant and frightening. That has to be dealt with first. A vet would
            be able to tell you if Mars has fluid on the lungs by stethoscope and the
            ultrasound will certainly give a diagnosis.

            I would look into alternative options for IBD, such as allergy testing and
            diet changes. It may be Mars is intolerant to certain foods. Avoid milk.
            Has he had a stool test to rule out a parasitic infection? Trixis' bowel
            problems were found to be tritrichomonas.

            You must be in a whirl right now, with all this advice and suggestions.
            Read through them carefully when you're relaxed and write down a list of
            questions for the cardiologist and vet. Then work together for the best
            combination to give Mars a comfortable and happy life.

            Lyn:)

            _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Judi Levens
            In my experience the regular vet didn t know that steroids are bad for heart kitties...I found out here and the cardiologist confirmed it, so be careful...do
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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              In my experience the regular vet didn't know that steroids are bad for heart kitties...I found out here and the cardiologist confirmed it, so be careful...do some research and present it to the doctor. There is a case study here of cats who went into CHF after being administered steroids...I don't know how to find it though. This is what happened to Max also, and thank goodness he recovered, but it was a real touch and go...good luck.
              Judi and Max










              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              From: npumie@...
              Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 21:19:15 -0500
              Subject: Re: [FH] Please help me... in a panic






              I'm sure it does depend on the cat and the cat's condition, which the cat's
              vet is probably in the best position to assess.

              I'm not suggesting anyone trust their vet's advice as holy writ, it's always
              good to be informed and to ask questions. At the same time, because one
              medication adversely affected another person's cat does not mean it will so
              affect every cat or any other particular cat.

              Sue & Boo

              On 1/2/11 9:04 PM, "C.R." <carolroar@...> wrote:

              > I think it all depends on each individual kitty. My angel Sweetie took oral
              > prednisone and it wasn't good for her. So I think you definitely should talk
              > to your vet about it all in the morning and get their input.
              >
              > Carol and Angel Snowball
              > and the gang





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Suzianne Painter-Thorne
              And my regular vet does know about steroids and heart kitties. Again, not everyone¹s experience is the same and neither is every cat¹s condition. My point is
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                And my regular vet does know about steroids and heart kitties. Again, not
                everyone¹s experience is the same and neither is every cat¹s condition. My
                point is there¹s no reason to panic someone.

                Sue & Boo


                On 1/3/11 8:22 AM, "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...> wrote:

                > In my experience the regular vet didn't know that steroids are bad for heart
                > kitties...I found out here and the cardiologist confirmed it, so be
                > careful...do some research and present it to the doctor. There is a case
                > study here of cats who went into CHF after being administered steroids...I
                > don't know how to find it though. This is what happened to Max also, and
                > thank goodness he recovered, but it was a real touch and go...good luck.
                > Judi and Max



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Judi Levens
                I m not trying to panic anyone, but just reaffirming what several other people have said...it s important information to pass on, and I think that s what we re
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                  I'm not trying to panic anyone, but just reaffirming what several other people have said...it's important information to pass on, and I think that's what we're here for? I wish I had known, although for me I didn't know Max had heart disease at the time he was administered steroids, so it wouldn't have helped. Judi and Max







                  To: casaobelisco@...; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  From: npumie@...
                  Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 09:11:48 -0500
                  Subject: Re: [FH] Please help me... in a panic






                  And my regular vet does know about steroids and heart kitties. Again, not
                  everyone�s experience is the same and neither is every cat�s condition. My
                  point is there�s no reason to panic someone.

                  Sue & Boo

                  On 1/3/11 8:22 AM, "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...> wrote:

                  > In my experience the regular vet didn't know that steroids are bad for heart
                  > kitties...I found out here and the cardiologist confirmed it, so be
                  > careful...do some research and present it to the doctor. There is a case
                  > study here of cats who went into CHF after being administered steroids...I
                  > don't know how to find it though. This is what happened to Max also, and
                  > thank goodness he recovered, but it was a real touch and go...good luck.
                  > Judi and Max

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Suzianne Painter-Thorne
                  I didn¹t say you were trying to panic anyone. But that doesn¹t change that she was in fact panicked. I¹ve received the same emails telling me the perils of
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                    I didn¹t say you were trying to panic anyone. But that doesn¹t change that
                    she was in fact panicked. I¹ve received the same emails telling me the
                    perils of steroids. I appreciate the information, but never the tone of
                    ³YOU¹RE GOING TO KILL YOUR CAT!² that all too often comes with it. Even
                    though I know it is coming from someone who just wants to share and help, it
                    does actually panic people to read things like that. And panic isn¹t going
                    to help anyone.

                    While I appreciate the support and information on this list, like all such
                    lists people have a tendency to project all their experiences to every other
                    cat even though they¹re not vets and haven¹t examined the cat. According to
                    my cat¹s regular vet and her cardiologist, there is a difference between
                    injectable and oral steroids when it comes to heart cats, but that
                    distinction is always left out of the alarm bells. So I offered my
                    experience that my cat was fine after taking steroids twice as a counter
                    story to those who¹d told her her cat would die. My experience doesn¹t prove
                    her cat will be okay, but it does suggest that steroids aren¹t the death
                    sentence they are all too often portrayed to be.

                    Sue & Boo


                    On 1/3/11 9:17 AM, "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...> wrote:

                    > I'm not trying to panic anyone, but just reaffirming what several other people
                    > have said...it's important information to pass on, and I think that's what
                    > we're here for? I wish I had known, although for me I didn't know Max had
                    > heart disease at the time he was administered steroids, so it wouldn't have
                    > helped. Judi and Max



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Melissa Legan
                    I think Judi was just trying to relay the importantance of being aware of the effects. My Winston was adminstired ORAL steriods and DID go into CHF. I think
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                      I think Judi was just trying to relay the importantance of being aware of the effects. My Winston was adminstired ORAL steriods and DID go into CHF. I think the severity of the heart disease also plays a role. Winston has end stage heart disease....very severe HCM with mitral value displysia and conduction distrubance pattern (AV ans sinus). So, i think that the steriods proved to be too much, and caused the CHF. There is a WONDERFUL copy of the study performed on the internet- just google it. EVEN cats without heart diease went into idopathic heart failure after the ADMINISTRATION of steriods.
                       
                       
                      Please keep in mind, every cat is different. Steriods are in fact very dangerous for heart kitties. Just because one cat didnt go into CHF after steriods does not put to rest the fact that steriods in heart kitties have been studied extensively (oral and injectable).
                       
                      If you have questions about steriods and CHF ask your vet, I dont think any of us should make judgment on the reaction that any of our kitties should have or could have. We ARENT vets (to my knowledge). The best advice is- call your vet, tell him you have concerns and leave it at that.
                       
                      M

                      --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Suzianne Painter-Thorne <npumie@...> wrote:


                      From: Suzianne Painter-Thorne <npumie@...>
                      Subject: Re: [FH] Please help me... in a panic
                      To: "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...>, feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 9:26 AM


                       



                      I didn¹t say you were trying to panic anyone. But that doesn¹t change that
                      she was in fact panicked. I¹ve received the same emails telling me the
                      perils of steroids. I appreciate the information, but never the tone of
                      ³YOU¹RE GOING TO KILL YOUR CAT!² that all too often comes with it. Even
                      though I know it is coming from someone who just wants to share and help, it
                      does actually panic people to read things like that. And panic isn¹t going
                      to help anyone.

                      While I appreciate the support and information on this list, like all such
                      lists people have a tendency to project all their experiences to every other
                      cat even though they¹re not vets and haven¹t examined the cat. According to
                      my cat¹s regular vet and her cardiologist, there is a difference between
                      injectable and oral steroids when it comes to heart cats, but that
                      distinction is always left out of the alarm bells. So I offered my
                      experience that my cat was fine after taking steroids twice as a counter
                      story to those who¹d told her her cat would die. My experience doesn¹t prove
                      her cat will be okay, but it does suggest that steroids aren¹t the death
                      sentence they are all too often portrayed to be.

                      Sue & Boo

                      On 1/3/11 9:17 AM, "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...> wrote:

                      > I'm not trying to panic anyone, but just reaffirming what several other people
                      > have said...it's important information to pass on, and I think that's what
                      > we're here for? I wish I had known, although for me I didn't know Max had
                      > heart disease at the time he was administered steroids, so it wouldn't have
                      > helped. Judi and Max

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Suzianne Painter-Thorne
                      I GET that it what she is doing. And since Lora had written that she was in a panic over it, I m pretty sure she already knew the importance of being aware.
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                        I GET that it what she is doing. And since Lora had written that she was in
                        a panic over it, I'm pretty sure she already knew the importance of being
                        aware.

                        I'm not sure what you're really disagreeing with. I said my experience did
                        not prove they were not a problem for her cat. And I also said she should
                        speak to her vet. That every cat is different. That we are not vets. I
                        didn't use all caps for it, but I said the same thing.

                        If you're talking about this study:
                        http://jarvm.com/articles/Vol2Iss3/TOBIASJARVMVol2No304.pdf, that report
                        concludes that "CHF should be listed as a potential adverse effect of
                        corticosteroid administration in cats." It doesn't say always, it says
                        potential.

                        And, the thing is, that study's sample started with only cats who had been
                        diagnosed with CHF. It did not look at all the cats given steroids to
                        determine the risk of CHF. Instead, it looked only at cats who had already
                        developed CHF and considered how many had done so within a certain time of
                        getting steroids. It excluded cats who'd been on steroids for months or
                        years prior to CHF. And--most important--it did not look at the number of
                        cats who are on steroids who did or did not go into CHF, which would be an
                        entirely different study and would actually give more answers about the
                        risks of steroids themselves.

                        So yes, speak to your vet about it. But don't get into a panic and don't
                        cause someone else to panic by telling them they're killing their cat by
                        giving steroids.

                        Sue & Boo

                        On 1/3/11 9:40 AM, "Melissa Legan" <smittyhj82@...> wrote:

                        > I think Judi was just trying to relay the importantance of being aware of the
                        > effects. My Winston was adminstired ORAL steriods and DID go into CHF. I think
                        > the severity of the heart disease also plays a role. Winston has end stage
                        > heart disease....very severe HCM with mitral value displysia and conduction
                        > distrubance pattern (AV ans sinus). So, i think that the steriods proved to be
                        > too much, and caused the CHF. There is a WONDERFUL copy of the study performed
                        > on the internet- just google it. EVEN cats without heart diease went into
                        > idopathic heart failure after the ADMINISTRATION of steriods.
                        >  
                        > Please keep in mind, every cat is different. Steriods are in fact very
                        > dangerous for heart kitties. Just because one cat didnt go into CHF after
                        > steriods does not put to rest the fact that steriods in heart kitties have
                        > been studied extensively (oral and injectable).
                        >  
                        > If you have questions about steriods and CHF ask your vet, I dont think any of
                        > us should make judgment on the reaction that any of our kitties should have or
                        > could have. We ARENT vets (to my knowledge). The best advice is- call your
                        > vet, tell him you have concerns and leave it at that.
                      • Melissa Legan
                        OK, I think this is enough.   People are here to share their expereinces. Steriods are a very serious issue and I think Judi and I feel this way because we
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                          OK, I think this is enough.
                           
                          People are here to share their expereinces. Steriods are a very serious issue and I think Judi and I feel this way because we almost lost our kitties because of it. Losing my Winston will be like losing a child.
                           
                          Sorry that we feel strongly about a very serious situation. No one wanted to panic anyone.
                           
                          Nothing in the realm of heart disease should be taken lightly, and Judi and I probably feel this way given what our kitties have been through. My Winston is one of the most complicated and serious cases ever seen by my cardio.
                           
                           
                          Melissa

                          --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Suzianne Painter-Thorne <npumie@...> wrote:


                          From: Suzianne Painter-Thorne <npumie@...>
                          Subject: Re: [FH] Please help me... in a panic
                          To: "Melissa Legan" <smittyhj82@...>, "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...>, feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 10:18 AM


                          I GET that it what she is doing. And since Lora had written that she was in
                          a panic over it, I'm pretty sure she already knew the importance of being
                          aware.

                          I'm not sure what you're really disagreeing with. I  said my experience did
                          not prove they were not a problem for her cat. And I also said she should
                          speak to her vet. That every cat is different. That we are not vets. I
                          didn't use all caps for it, but I said the same thing.

                          If you're talking about this study:
                          http://jarvm.com/articles/Vol2Iss3/TOBIASJARVMVol2No304.pdf, that report
                          concludes that "CHF should be listed as a potential adverse effect of
                          corticosteroid administration in cats." It doesn't say always, it says
                          potential.

                          And, the thing is, that study's sample started with only cats who had been
                          diagnosed with CHF. It did not look at all the cats given steroids to
                          determine the risk of CHF. Instead, it looked only at cats who had already
                          developed CHF and considered how many had done so within a certain time of
                          getting steroids. It excluded cats who'd been on steroids for months or
                          years prior to CHF. And--most important--it did not look at the number of
                          cats who are on steroids who did or did not go into CHF, which would be an
                          entirely different study and would actually give more answers about the
                          risks of steroids themselves.

                          So yes, speak to your vet about it. But don't get into a panic and don't
                          cause someone else to panic by telling them they're killing their cat by
                          giving steroids.

                          Sue & Boo

                          On 1/3/11 9:40 AM, "Melissa Legan" <smittyhj82@...> wrote:

                          > I think Judi was just trying to relay the importantance of being aware of the
                          > effects. My Winston was adminstired ORAL steriods and DID go into CHF. I think
                          > the severity of the heart disease also plays a role. Winston has end stage
                          > heart disease....very severe HCM with mitral value displysia and conduction
                          > distrubance pattern (AV ans sinus). So, i think that the steriods proved to be
                          > too much, and caused the CHF. There is a WONDERFUL copy of the study performed
                          > on the internet- just google it. EVEN cats without heart diease went into
                          > idopathic heart failure after the ADMINISTRATION of steriods.
                          >  
                          > Please keep in mind, every cat is different. Steriods are in fact very
                          > dangerous for heart kitties. Just because one cat didnt go into CHF after
                          > steriods does not put to rest the fact that steriods in heart kitties have
                          > been studied extensively (oral and injectable).
                          >  
                          > If you have questions about steriods and CHF ask your vet, I dont think any of
                          > us should make judgment on the reaction that any of our kitties should have or
                          > could have. We ARENT vets (to my knowledge). The best advice is- call your
                          > vet, tell him you have concerns and leave it at that.







                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Suzianne Painter-Thorne
                          Please don t suggest I m saying anyone should take anything to do with heart disease or their cats lightly. I have not done this or come close to suggesting
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                            Please don't suggest I'm saying anyone should take anything to do with heart
                            disease or their cats lightly. I have not done this or come close to
                            suggesting it. I have not said heart disease is not a serious situation. I
                            have shared my experience, which you acknowledge people are here to do. As a
                            member of this list, I assume I am allowed to do so as well.

                            And I feel strongly about this too. I have been advised by people on this
                            list to ignore a health problem my cat was having--one that was putting her
                            life at risk--because of their fear of steroids because of their experience
                            with their cats.

                            Everyone on this list feels strongly about their cats and my assumption is
                            that for all of us the loss of our cat is the loss of a beloved child. I
                            also assume everyone is trying to do the best she or he can for their cat.
                            That goes for those I agree and disagree with.

                            Sue & Boo


                            On 1/3/11 10:42 AM, "Melissa Legan" <smittyhj82@...> wrote:

                            > OK, I think this is enough.
                            >  
                            > People are here to share their expereinces. Steriods are a very serious issue
                            > and I think Judi and I feel this way because we almost lost our kitties
                            > because of it. Losing my Winston will be like losing a child.
                            >  
                            > Sorry that we feel strongly about a very serious situation. No one wanted to
                            > panic anyone.
                            >  
                            > Nothing in the realm of heart disease should be taken lightly, and Judi and I
                            > probably feel this way given what our kitties have been through. My Winston is
                            > one of the most complicated and serious cases ever seen by my cardio.
                          • Mmayer11
                            Please everyone let s take Sue s words as the end of this subject. We are back going in circles. Let s try starting the New Year giving this topic a rest. Ir s
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                              Please everyone let's take Sue's words as the end of this subject. We are back going in circles. Let's try starting the New Year giving this topic a rest. Ir's unhelpful to drag this on.


                              Sue wrote:for all of us the loss of our cat is the loss of a beloved child. I
                              also assume everyone is trying to do the best she or he can for their cat.
                              That goes for those I agree and disagree with.





                              Marianna








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                            • Patti Thomas
                              From Washington State University regarding HCM research in Sphynx. The following is from Dr.Kate Meurs: We have had a fabulous response to our request for
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jan 3, 2011
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                                From Washington State University regarding HCM research in Sphynx.

                                The following is from Dr.Kate Meurs:

                                We have had a fabulous response to our request for samples and they have really
                                been coming in! The company that makes the feline array is running behind
                                schedule so we still have time to collect both affected and unaffected samples
                                and would still really like them! We will start looking at some new genes next
                                week so we can keep progressing while we wait for the array.

                                Also , we really need some heart tissue samples (just a few) from affected and
                                unaffected cats. If someone is unfortunate enough to be putting their HCM
                                affected cat or older (at least 8 years of age) to sleep it would be extremely
                                helpful if we could ask the veterinarian to save a small section of the heart
                                for us? It does have to be specially preserved in a solution from us, but we
                                could fedex the solution for next day arrival to your veterinarian. At this
                                point we have ruled out many genes but have not found anything and being able to
                                exam the tissue may be very helpful. We don't need very many so if even 3-4
                                people can help us it may be enough!

                                Thank you!
                                Kate






                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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