Re: [FH] Oscar - another 'seizure' - any kitties with similar symptoms?
- I did a spinal tap on my epileptic dog, he was sedated. He was fine. It was not
cruel, it was necessary to determine what was going on. They did his MRI at the
same time. I love the show, but House is fiction.
My point is not to second guess your choices, but to say please stop telling
people that there is no hope, that it's a brain tumor, and that nothing can be
done. It's not something you can know. It's not something anyone on this list
It might be rare for an older cat to get epilepsy, but I don't know how old
Oscar is or that he is an "older cat."
More importantly, seizures as a result of toxicity or low thyroid or some other
cause is not epilepsy. Epilepsy usually means idiopathic--meaning the doctors
have not found some "sinister" reason for the cat's seizures. I had a cat who
had epilepsy. He lived many many more years and died at nearly 18. He never
needed meds and his seizures eventually just stopped happening.
Sue & Boo
----- Original Message ----
From: Westgold <westgold@...>
To: Sue Painter-Thorne <npumie@...>; feline-heart
Sent: Tue, October 26, 2010 2:04:56 PM
Subject: Re: [FH] Oscar - another 'seizure' - any kitties with similar symptoms?
Hi Sue -- you are right. But when the neurologist examined Pooh after his
seizures (he was 16 1/2) I was told that it is extremely rare for an older cat
to get epilepsy. He offered me all those tests you listed, but there was no way
I was going to put him through all that. OMG -- a spinal tap?? How horrible to
do that to a poor little kitty!! I wouldn't do that to my worst enemy. Don't
you watch House??!! :)
The neurologist also told me that even if I did the tests and found the tumor,
that it was very difficult to do brain surgery on a little cat brain, and they
usually couldn't remove the whole tumor, etc -- and the prognosis would be the
same. With meds for the various problems caused by Pooh's having 6 seizures
before I could get him to the ER, he lived for another 3 1/2 months. Looking
back now, I regret what they had to do to save him, poor little guy. I should
have pts while he was still unconscious.
My mother also had a brain tumor, diagnosed when she started falling down at age
64. She had the surgery, but they couldn't remove all the little tumor
tentacles, and she was a vegetable until she died about 9 months later.
cancer is hell
- So sorry for Oscar and you.
These sound like petit mall seizure to me. May not be related to heart at all.
Here are two links you may find interesting.
From: marciahibberd <marciahibberd@...>
To: feline-heart <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Sent: Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:23 am
Subject: [FH] Oscar - another 'seizure' - any kitties with similar symptoms?
Oscar had his 3rd 'seizure' last night, and it was the worst so far. We're still not sure if it's neurological or down to his heart problems, and I've posted this on the feline epilepsy group too.
I'd appreciate any of your comments or observations.
It was only 3 weeks ago we lost our other cat, and I'm having nightmares of Oscar's imminent death.
Thanks and best wishes to you and your kitties,
* Wednesday 6th October, about 11am
* On the floor near airing cupboard (favoured sleeping spot, very warm)
* Marcia present
* Oscar's mood before - Very affectionate, purring, stretching, wanted fuss
* What happened? - Oscar was resting on lying on his side purring, then appeared
unconscious, spasms in front legs then rear legs, then `woke up'
* Duration - About 30 seconds
* Oscar's mood after - Oscar was very happy, as if he'd not noticed anything out
of the ordinary
* Veterinary care
Saw Ben (local vet) on 7th October, who diagnosed heart murmur and took blood
for `senior cat' blood screen (nothing found), discussed possible referral to
Visited Ben again on 14th October and the heart murmur was still present so
Ben said he'd arrange referral to NDSR (cardiologist) for investigations
* Sunday 17th October, about 2pm
* Our bed
* Marcia and Dan present (me and husband)
* Oscar's mood before - Resting, half asleep
* What happened? - Oscar `startled', then got up and started walking round in
circles, following his hind quarters. He was blinking rapidly as he did so,
with dilated pupils. He seemed unaware of his surroundings. Then he lay back
down and `came back'.
* Duration -About 30 seconds
* Oscar's mood after - He seemed a bit perturbed and wanted a fuss. He was
back to normal shortly after that, and was hungry.
* Veterinary care
Saw Ben 18th Oct. Urgent referral to cardiologist at NDSR.
We saw Nuala (cardiologist) at NDSR 20th October. ECG and echocardiogram
(ultrasound) showed very erratic heart beat, and thickening of the centre wall
of the heart. However, no obvious cause for these `seizures'.
Prescribed beta blocker atenolol 0.1ml daily (less than therapeutic dose,
worry that these fits / syncopes caused by drop in heart beat so need to
increase dose very gradually).
* Monday 25th October about 7pm
* It started on our front step and garden, then continued on our bed
* Marcia and Dan present
* Oscar's mood before - We're not sure. He often sits outside on the step at
that time of the evening, and greets us when we return.
* What happened? - Oscar was sitting on the step when we returned from our walk.
He got up and started following his rear left hindquarters, with his left rear
leg sticking out oddly (and not walking on it). His eyes were wide open and
staring not sure of his awareness of us / surroundings. Staggering in circles
on 3 legs, lost balance and fell off step. Continued to stagger round garden,
when he fell to floor I gently held him there to stop him falling under a bush
and hurting himself. He was staring (still unaware) and crying. Carried him
upstairs (his movements had calmed down a bit) and put him on bed. He was still
staring, and got up and tried to circle a couple of times. He then laid down and
`came to'. He tried to move to the other side of the bed but staggered, as if
his left rear leg was giving him problems. Purred very heavily for a couple of
minutes but obviously still distressed. There was no loss of bowel/bladder
functions. Came to full awareness about 5 minutes after `seizure' started.
Rested for an hour, then hungry. Very slight limp on left rear leg. Sociable
and happy since then, back to normal behaviour.
* Duration - 3 minutes (we think)
* Oscar's mood after - Briefly upset and needing reassurance, then tired.
Spoke to Nuala. She says his symptoms are confusing will treat cardio, but
not entirely rule out neurological problems. From last week's ultrasound,
thinks that he shouldn't be having clots as his heart isn't yet that bad.
Increasing dose of atenolol to 0.2ml daily (working up to therapeutic dose),
and has prescribed / will send anti-clot meds (clopidegrel, ¼ tablet once daily)
`just in case'.
Calling Nuala on Friday with update discuss next steps.
Have been asked to start seizure diary, and film one if possible.
* Update - Oscar's limp has gone.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- hi Marcia,
Sometimes seizures can be caused from liver and kidney toxicity. My angel Sweetie who was a heart and kidney kitty had seizures that were caused from her kidney failure. She became toxic from the uremic poisoning from her kidney failure and began having these little head shaking seizures. Hers eventually developed into much more serious seizures that involved her whole body.
If it wouldn't put Oscar through an undo amount of stress, it might be a good idea to see a specialist and have an MRI done. They do need to sedate the kitty for it, which is always a concern for heart kitties, but they can find out so much more with an MRI.
It might also be a good idea to do a full blood panel including liver function test (like bile salts). If there is elevation in the liver values, that could possibly be a cause for the seizures. My angel dog, Fritzy, who we later found out had liver problems, she one day just had these two grand mal seizures out of the blue. After testing, that's when we found out she had liver problems, and that was what was causing her seizures.
I hope the seizures stop. We'll keep Oscar in our thoughts and prayers.
Carol and Angel Snowball
and the gang
--- In email@example.com, "marciahibberd" <marciahibberd@...> wrote:
> Hello everyone
> Oscar had his 3rd 'seizure' last night, and it was the worst so far. We're still not sure if it's neurological or down to his heart problems, and I've posted this on the feline epilepsy group too.