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Re: [FH] Oscar - another 'seizure' - any kitties with similar symptoms?

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  • Sue Painter-Thorne
    I did a spinal tap on my epileptic dog, he was sedated. He was fine. It was not cruel, it was necessary to determine what was going on. They did his MRI at the
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 26, 2010
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      I did a spinal tap on my epileptic dog, he was sedated. He was fine. It was not
      cruel, it was necessary to determine what was going on. They did his MRI at the
      same time. I love the show, but House is fiction.

      My point is not to second guess your choices, but to say please stop telling
      people that there is no hope, that it's a brain tumor, and that nothing can be
      done. It's not something you can know. It's not something anyone on this list
      can know.

      It might be rare for an older cat to get epilepsy, but I don't know how old
      Oscar is or that he is an "older cat."

      More importantly, seizures as a result of toxicity or low thyroid or some other
      cause is not epilepsy. Epilepsy usually means idiopathic--meaning the doctors
      have not found some "sinister" reason for the cat's seizures. I had a cat who
      had epilepsy. He lived many many more years and died at nearly 18. He never
      needed meds and his seizures eventually just stopped happening.

      Sue & Boo



      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Westgold <westgold@...>
      To: Sue Painter-Thorne <npumie@...>; feline-heart
      <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tue, October 26, 2010 2:04:56 PM
      Subject: Re: [FH] Oscar - another 'seizure' - any kitties with similar symptoms?

      Hi Sue -- you are right. But when the neurologist examined Pooh after his
      seizures (he was 16 1/2) I was told that it is extremely rare for an older cat
      to get epilepsy. He offered me all those tests you listed, but there was no way
      I was going to put him through all that. OMG -- a spinal tap?? How horrible to
      do that to a poor little kitty!! I wouldn't do that to my worst enemy. Don't
      you watch House??!! :)

      The neurologist also told me that even if I did the tests and found the tumor,
      that it was very difficult to do brain surgery on a little cat brain, and they
      usually couldn't remove the whole tumor, etc -- and the prognosis would be the
      same. With meds for the various problems caused by Pooh's having 6 seizures
      before I could get him to the ER, he lived for another 3 1/2 months. Looking
      back now, I regret what they had to do to save him, poor little guy. I should
      have pts while he was still unconscious.


      My mother also had a brain tumor, diagnosed when she started falling down at age
      64. She had the surgery, but they couldn't remove all the little tumor
      tentacles, and she was a vegetable until she died about 9 months later.


      cancer is hell
    • Mmayer11
      So sorry for Oscar and you. These sound like petit mall seizure to me. May not be related to heart at all. Here are two links you may find interesting.
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 26, 2010
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        So sorry for Oscar and you.
        These sound like petit mall seizure to me. May not be related to heart at all.
        Here are two links you may find interesting.


        www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+1321&aid
        yourcatcareguide.com/wordpress/?p=145

        HTH

        Marianna




        -----Original Message-----
        From: marciahibberd <marciahibberd@...>
        To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:23 am
        Subject: [FH] Oscar - another 'seizure' - any kitties with similar symptoms?





        Hello everyone

        Oscar had his 3rd 'seizure' last night, and it was the worst so far. We're still not sure if it's neurological or down to his heart problems, and I've posted this on the feline epilepsy group too.

        I'd appreciate any of your comments or observations.

        It was only 3 weeks ago we lost our other cat, and I'm having nightmares of Oscar's imminent death.

        Thanks and best wishes to you and your kitties,
        Marcia

        1st seizure
        * Wednesday 6th October, about 11am
        * On the floor near airing cupboard (favoured sleeping spot, very warm)
        * Marcia present
        * Oscar's mood before - Very affectionate, purring, stretching, wanted fuss
        * What happened? - Oscar was resting on lying on his side purring, then appeared
        unconscious, spasms in front legs then rear legs, then `woke up'
        * Duration - About 30 seconds
        * Oscar's mood after - Oscar was very happy, as if he'd not noticed anything out
        of the ordinary
        * Veterinary care
        • Saw Ben (local vet) on 7th October, who diagnosed heart murmur and took blood
        for `senior cat' blood screen (nothing found), discussed possible referral to
        NDSR.
        • Visited Ben again on 14th October and the heart murmur was still present so
        Ben said he'd arrange referral to NDSR (cardiologist) for investigations

        2nd seizure
        * Sunday 17th October, about 2pm
        * Our bed
        * Marcia and Dan present (me and husband)
        * Oscar's mood before - Resting, half asleep
        * What happened? - Oscar `startled', then got up and started walking round in
        circles, following his hind quarters. He was blinking rapidly as he did so,
        with dilated pupils. He seemed unaware of his surroundings. Then he lay back
        down and `came back'.
        * Duration -About 30 seconds
        * Oscar's mood after - He seemed a bit perturbed and wanted a fuss. He was
        back to normal shortly after that, and was hungry.
        * Veterinary care
        • Saw Ben 18th Oct. Urgent referral to cardiologist at NDSR.
        • We saw Nuala (cardiologist) at NDSR 20th October. ECG and echocardiogram
        (ultrasound) showed very erratic heart beat, and thickening of the centre wall
        of the heart. However, no obvious cause for these `seizures'.
        • Prescribed beta blocker atenolol 0.1ml daily (less than therapeutic dose,
        worry that these fits / syncopes caused by drop in heart beat so need to
        increase dose very gradually).

        3rd seizure

        * Monday 25th October – about 7pm
        * It started on our front step and garden, then continued on our bed
        * Marcia and Dan present
        * Oscar's mood before - We're not sure. He often sits outside on the step at
        that time of the evening, and greets us when we return.
        * What happened? - Oscar was sitting on the step when we returned from our walk.
        He got up and started following his rear left hindquarters, with his left rear
        leg sticking out oddly (and not walking on it). His eyes were wide open and
        staring – not sure of his awareness of us / surroundings. Staggering in circles
        on 3 legs, lost balance and fell off step. Continued to stagger round garden,
        when he fell to floor I gently held him there to stop him falling under a bush
        and hurting himself. He was staring (still unaware) and crying. Carried him
        upstairs (his movements had calmed down a bit) and put him on bed. He was still
        staring, and got up and tried to circle a couple of times. He then laid down and
        `came to'. He tried to move to the other side of the bed but staggered, as if
        his left rear leg was giving him problems. Purred very heavily for a couple of
        minutes but obviously still distressed. There was no loss of bowel/bladder
        functions. Came to full awareness about 5 minutes after `seizure' started.
        Rested for an hour, then hungry. Very slight limp on left rear leg. Sociable
        and happy since then, back to normal behaviour.
        * Duration - 3 minutes (we think)
        * Oscar's mood after - Briefly upset and needing reassurance, then tired.
        Hungry.
        Veterinary care
        • Spoke to Nuala. She says his symptoms are confusing – will treat cardio, but
        not entirely rule out neurological problems. From last week's ultrasound,
        thinks that he shouldn't be having clots as his heart isn't yet that bad.
        • Increasing dose of atenolol to 0.2ml daily (working up to therapeutic dose),
        and has prescribed / will send anti-clot meds (clopidegrel, ¼ tablet once daily)
        `just in case'.
        • Calling Nuala on Friday with update – discuss next steps.
        • Have been asked to start seizure diary, and film one if possible.
        * Update - Oscar's limp has gone.









        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • C.R.
        hi Marcia, Sometimes seizures can be caused from liver and kidney toxicity. My angel Sweetie who was a heart and kidney kitty had seizures that were caused
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 26, 2010
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          hi Marcia,

          Sometimes seizures can be caused from liver and kidney toxicity. My angel Sweetie who was a heart and kidney kitty had seizures that were caused from her kidney failure. She became toxic from the uremic poisoning from her kidney failure and began having these little head shaking seizures. Hers eventually developed into much more serious seizures that involved her whole body.

          If it wouldn't put Oscar through an undo amount of stress, it might be a good idea to see a specialist and have an MRI done. They do need to sedate the kitty for it, which is always a concern for heart kitties, but they can find out so much more with an MRI.

          It might also be a good idea to do a full blood panel including liver function test (like bile salts). If there is elevation in the liver values, that could possibly be a cause for the seizures. My angel dog, Fritzy, who we later found out had liver problems, she one day just had these two grand mal seizures out of the blue. After testing, that's when we found out she had liver problems, and that was what was causing her seizures.

          I hope the seizures stop. We'll keep Oscar in our thoughts and prayers.

          Carol and Angel Snowball
          and the gang

          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "marciahibberd" <marciahibberd@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello everyone
          >
          > Oscar had his 3rd 'seizure' last night, and it was the worst so far. We're still not sure if it's neurological or down to his heart problems, and I've posted this on the feline epilepsy group too.
          >
        • C.R.
          Oops, sorry... I meant to say bile acids not bile salts test. Carol
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 27, 2010
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            Oops, sorry... I meant to say "bile acids" not bile salts test.

            Carol





            > It might also be a good idea to do a full blood panel including liver function test (like bile salts).
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