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Limping - HCM?

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  • Lisa Gryschuk
    Hello: I started my HCM guy on Atenolol 6 days ago, 1 dose every 12 hours. He is a 4 out of 5 on heart murmur severity. Last night I noticed he started
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 23, 2010
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      Hello: I started my HCM guy on Atenolol 6 days ago, 1 dose every 12 hours. He is a 4 out of 5 on heart murmur severity.
      Last night I noticed he started limping on his right front leg - sort of like when you first get up after laying on a leg and it is stiff. But the limp hasn't gone away. I have felt paws and it does not seem that one paw is cooler than the other.
      The vet said that limping is not a side affect of atenolol.

      Anyone have any thoughts? I worried about a clot - but then figured I was just being paranoid..

      Lisa
    • Judi Levens
      why don t you add some nattokinassse to his diet just to be safe...if it doesn t improve fairly quickly I d see the vet just in case. The natto helps prevent
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 23, 2010
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        why don't you add some nattokinassse to his diet just to be safe...if it doesn't improve fairly quickly I'd see the vet just in case. The natto helps prevent clots and helps reabsorb them if they occur. He could have just slightly injured the paw, but it's necessary to be very careful with heart kitties re: clots. good luck with htis...Judi and Max









        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        From: Lisa@...
        Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:32:37 +0000
        Subject: [FH] Limping - HCM?







        Hello: I started my HCM guy on Atenolol 6 days ago, 1 dose every 12 hours. He is a 4 out of 5 on heart murmur severity.
        Last night I noticed he started limping on his right front leg - sort of like when you first get up after laying on a leg and it is stiff. But the limp hasn't gone away. I have felt paws and it does not seem that one paw is cooler than the other.
        The vet said that limping is not a side affect of atenolol.

        Anyone have any thoughts? I worried about a clot - but then figured I was just being paranoid..

        Lisa





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Barbie
        When I asked my internist after hearing the many horror stories of clotting I was told that it happens in the rear part of the body.   My internist said
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 23, 2010
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          When I asked my internist after hearing the many
          horror stories of clotting I was told that it happens
          in the rear part of the body.   My internist said the
          back legs would be affected not the front.  Your cat
          may have just pulled something or maybe she has
          a toe bothering her, did you check her claws and toe
          pads to see if there was something wrong in that area.
          Clotting doesn't normally affect that front paws
          in felines so I don't think it would be a clot. 
          When part or all of the clot breaks off, it travels through
          the heart and down the aorta where if large enough it
          will become lodged at the end of the aorta
          where the vessel separates to go down each hind leg.
          If the blockage is complete, the entire blood supply to
          the hind legs is cut off and the cat becomes paralyzed in the hind
          end shortly after. 
          Barbie
           
          "Whoever wants to know something about me,
          must observe my paintings carefully and try to
          see in them what I am".
           
          Gustav Klimt
           
           
           
           




          ________________________________
          From: Lisa Gryschuk <Lisa@...>
          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thu, September 23, 2010 2:32:37 PM
          Subject: [FH] Limping - HCM?

           

          Hello: I started my HCM guy on Atenolol 6 days ago, 1 dose every 12 hours. He is
          a 4 out of 5 on heart murmur severity.
          Last night I noticed he started limping on his right front leg - sort of like
          when you first get up after laying on a leg and it is stiff. But the limp hasn't
          gone away. I have felt paws and it does not seem that one paw is cooler than the
          other.
          The vet said that limping is not a side affect of atenolol.

          Anyone have any thoughts? I worried about a clot - but then figured I was just
          being paranoid..

          Lisa







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Westgold
          Hi Lisa -- if one paw is cooler, than that s a clot -- he needs to go to the vet asap. ... From: Judi Levens To: ;
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 23, 2010
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            Hi Lisa -- if one paw is cooler, than that's a clot -- he needs to go to the
            vet asap.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...>
            To: <lisa@...>; <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:14 PM
            Subject: RE: [FH] Limping - HCM?


            >
            > why don't you add some nattokinassse to his diet just to be safe...if it
            > doesn't improve fairly quickly I'd see the vet just in case. The natto
            > helps prevent clots and helps reabsorb them if they occur. He could have
            > just slightly injured the paw, but it's necessary to be very careful with
            > heart kitties re: clots. good luck with htis...Judi and Max
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            > From: Lisa@...
            > Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:32:37 +0000
            > Subject: [FH] Limping - HCM?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Hello: I started my HCM guy on Atenolol 6 days ago, 1 dose every 12 hours.
            > He is a 4 out of 5 on heart murmur severity.
            > Last night I noticed he started limping on his right front leg - sort of
            > like when you first get up after laying on a leg and it is stiff. But the
            > limp hasn't gone away. I have felt paws and it does not seem that one paw
            > is cooler than the other.
            > The vet said that limping is not a side affect of atenolol.
            >
            > Anyone have any thoughts? I worried about a clot - but then figured I was
            > just being paranoid..
            >
            > Lisa
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
            > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
            > feline-heart@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • Barbie
            I forgot to ask did you Vet put you on any blood thinner of any sort for you cat?  I know for most HCM cats they should have a blood thinner
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 23, 2010
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              I forgot to ask did you Vet put you on any
              blood thinner of any sort for you cat?  I know
              for most HCM cats they should have a blood
              thinner to stop clots from forming.  Do you know
              if they took blood or administered intravenous
              to the same paw that you are aware of sometimes
              that can weakent he vein and cause it to fail
              which can cause limping.  It could be many things.
              Clots can form anywhere in the body, and if it
              is cold that could be a sign.  I am not sure if
              they feel pain at that point or not, I know some
              of the ladies here have experienced that and they
              could be of more help.  I have no experience in this
              what I am telling you is just from what I was
              told by my own vets and internist.
               
              Barbie
               
              "Whoever wants to know something about me,
              must observe my paintings carefully and try to
              see in them what I am".
               
              Gustav Klimt
               
               
               
               




              ________________________________
              From: Westgold <westgold@...>
              To: Lisa Gryschuk <Lisa@...>; feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thu, September 23, 2010 3:31:41 PM
              Subject: Re: [FH] Limping - HCM?

              Hi Lisa -- if one paw is cooler, than that's a clot -- he needs to go to the
              vet asap.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Judi Levens" <casaobelisco@...>
              To: <lisa@...>; <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:14 PM
              Subject: RE: [FH] Limping - HCM?


              >
              > why don't you add some nattokinassse to his diet just to be safe...if it
              > doesn't improve fairly quickly I'd see the vet just in case.  The natto
              > helps prevent clots and helps reabsorb them if they occur.  He could have
              > just slightly injured the paw, but it's necessary to be very careful with
              > heart kitties re: clots.  good luck with htis...Judi and Max
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              > From: Lisa@...
              > Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:32:37 +0000
              > Subject: [FH] Limping - HCM?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Hello: I started my HCM guy on Atenolol 6 days ago, 1 dose every 12 hours.
              > He is a 4 out of 5 on heart murmur severity.
              > Last night I noticed he started limping on his right front leg - sort of
              > like when you first get up after laying on a leg and it is stiff. But the
              > limp hasn't gone away. I have felt paws and it does not seem that one paw
              > is cooler than the other.
              > The vet said that limping is not a side affect of atenolol.
              >
              > Anyone have any thoughts? I worried about a clot - but then figured I was
              > just being paranoid..
              >
              > Lisa
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
              > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
              > feline-heart@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >



              ------------------------------------

              Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply will
              benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
              feline-heart@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Barbie
              I hear you about the heart problem, I feel I am getting one myself.  As I mentioned in my second message, don t rule out that this could be a clot.  If you
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 23, 2010
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                I hear you about the heart problem, I feel
                I am getting one myself.  As I mentioned in my second
                message, don't rule out that this could be
                a clot.  If you seriously notice a big difference
                in how one paw feels to the other in temperature,
                there very well could be more going on and a
                clot in the front is possible.  But most HCMs
                clot in the rear. 
                 
                Barbie
                 
                "Whoever wants to know something about me,
                must observe my paintings carefully and try to
                see in them what I am".
                 
                Gustav Klimt
                 
                 
                 
                 




                ________________________________
                From: Lisa Gryschuk <lgryschu@...>
                To: Barbie <barbie_guitard@...>
                Sent: Thu, September 23, 2010 4:07:35 PM
                Subject: Re: [FH] Limping - HCM?


                thanks so much for the info....I think this heart condition is going to give ME
                a heart condition!
                Paw pads are normal in color!

                Lisa


                On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Barbie <barbie_guitard@...> wrote:

                When I asked my internist after hearing the many
                >horror stories of clotting I was told that it happens
                >in the rear part of the body.   My internist said the
                >back legs would be affected not the front.  Your cat
                >may have just pulled something or maybe she has
                >a toe bothering her, did you check her claws and toe
                >pads to see if there was something wrong in that area.
                >Clotting doesn't normally affect that front paws
                >in felines so I don't think it would be a clot. 
                >When part or all of the clot breaks off, it travels through
                >the heart and down the aorta where if large enough it
                >will become lodged at the end of the aorta
                >where the vessel separates to go down each hind leg.
                >If the blockage is complete, the entire blood supply to
                >the hind legs is cut off and the cat becomes paralyzed in the hind
                >end shortly after. 
                >Barbie

                >"Whoever wants to know something about me,
                >must observe my paintings carefully and try to
                >see in them what I am".

                >Gustav Klimt




                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                ________________________________
                From: Lisa Gryschuk <Lisa@...>
                >
                >To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                >Sent: Thu, September 23, 2010 2:32:37 PM
                >Subject: [FH] Limping - HCM?
                >
                >

                >
                >Hello: I started my HCM guy on Atenolol 6 days ago, 1 dose every 12 hours. He is
                >a 4 out of 5 on heart murmur severity.
                >Last night I noticed he started limping on his right front leg - sort of like
                >when you first get up after laying on a leg and it is stiff. But the limp hasn't
                >gone away. I have felt paws and it does not seem that one paw is cooler than the
                >other.
                >The vet said that limping is not a side affect of atenolol.
                >
                >Anyone have any thoughts? I worried about a clot - but then figured I was just
                >being paranoid..
                >
                >Lisa
                >
                >
                >
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Barbie
                Hmmm not sure why they would say that it does not good. I know there are ladies on here that use other things besides Aspirin, my cat is on a low dose of just
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 23, 2010
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                  Hmmm not sure why they would say that it does not good.
                  I know there are ladies on here that use other things besides
                  Aspirin, my cat is on a low dose of just 5mgs every 72 hours.

                  Aspirin has been proven to be very beneficial in humans
                  for heart problems and has saved many human lives when
                  people were in the midst of heart attack and that Aspirin
                  saved their lives.  I would have to believe that it has a positive
                  affect on preventing clotting in kitties too.

                  I think it was Carol that had a kitty put on heart meds without
                  blood thinner and it ended up throwing a clot and it passed away
                  within days.  She was going to
                  ask the doc about a thinner and figured she would trust his
                  judgement.  She regrets that now and wonders if the thinner
                  would have saved her kitties life.  It is very possible it would
                  have.  I think it was Carol who told me her story of this
                  happening.  I am sure she will let you know if I am correct.
                  Have heard so many sad stories here it is hard to keep them all
                  straight.

                  Barbie
                   
                  "Whoever wants to know something about me,
                  must observe my paintings carefully and try to
                  see in them what I am".
                   
                  Gustav Klimt
                   
                   
                   
                   




                  ________________________________
                  From: Lisa Gryschuk <lgryschu@...>
                  To: barbie_guitard@...
                  Sent: Thu, September 23, 2010 4:09:40 PM
                  Subject: Re: [FH] Limping - HCM?


                  No blood thinner prescribed yet.  I go back in two weeks and by that time, the
                  vet will
                  have consulted more closely with a cardiologist.  Is this where baby aspirin
                  comes in?  this vet is quite young and suggested that from the research that has
                  been done thus far, they are saying that aspirin may not be doing any good!

                  Lisa




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Wendy Solem
                  Hi Lisa, While my Tino s limp was in his hind leg... the vet thought that he had actually thrown a small clot. I have read that some people say it only
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 23, 2010
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                    Hi Lisa,

                    While my Tino's limp was in his hind leg... the vet thought that he had actually
                    thrown a small clot. I have read that some people say it only affects a cat's
                    hind leg
                    (like my Tino) but since we are all here basically as patients and caregivers,
                    I would still check with the cardiologist to be on the safe side.


                    My Tino is on a small baby aspirin every 3 days to help prevent this again.
                    So, if it was a small clot,,,,it can be dealt with, but I wouldn't want to take
                    the chance of guessing.


                    Hope all is well!
                    Good Luck!
                    Wendy "Tino" and "Joey"





                    ________________________________
                    From: Lisa Gryschuk <Lisa@...>
                    To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thu, September 23, 2010 2:32:37 PM
                    Subject: [FH] Limping - HCM?



                    Hello: I started my HCM guy on Atenolol 6 days ago, 1 dose every 12 hours. He
                    is a 4 out of 5 on heart murmur severity.
                    Last night I noticed he started limping on his right front leg - sort of like
                    when you first get up after laying on a leg and it is stiff. But the limp
                    hasn't gone away. I have felt paws and it does not seem that one paw is cooler
                    than the other.
                    The vet said that limping is not a side affect of atenolol.

                    Anyone have any thoughts? I worried about a clot - but then figured I was just
                    being paranoid..

                    Lisa







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • carolroar@aol.com
                    I think Barbie s right, it was my angel Snowball. She was never on blood thinners. The cardiologist told us she didn t need it. He told us she wasn t in any
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 23, 2010
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                      I think Barbie's right, it was my angel Snowball. She was never on blood thinners. The cardiologist told us she didn't need it. He told us she wasn't in any danger of throwing a clot, and this was after I asked him specifically if she was in danger of just that. We unfortunately trusted him, one of the few times that I've decided to actually trust the vets we see here, whom I've not really been that enthused with, and this time it was wrong. He was wrong. If I could do it over again, I'd have started Snowball on some kind of blood thinner as soon as her HCM went from "mild" to "moderate". She was with mild HCM in June of last year, and 3 months later it was diagnosed as moderate. At that time I asked the cardio vet about blood thinners, he said she didn't need it. Started her on Atenolol, which she didn't tolerate, so we did it in a transdermal cream, which we found out later, doesn't absorb that well, so she wasn't getting the full dose she needed. Three months later she had another ultrasound and again I asked him about the blood thinners, because that checkup showed she was a lot worse than before, that her heart walls were "floppy and loose". He was adamant about that she didn't need the blood thinners. I asked him if she was in danger of throwing a clot, and he said NO. It wasn't a few days later, but it was two weeks later...she threw a clot and was gone within 20 minutes.
                      .
                      I regret every day that I didn't start her on something those six months. I don't know for sure if it would have made any difference...but at least I'd have known that I tried everything for her, which I don't really feel that way now. I feel like I failed her, and every day I wonder. Obviously I'm still working through the grief, all these months later.

                      I just really think it's very important that you work with a cardiologist and your regular vet who are very, very experienced with heart issues. You'd think a cardiologist would be, but our experience wasn't that way. You have to learn to be your own doctor, learn as much as you can so that you can know what the right things are to do for your kitty.

                      Depending on how severe the HCM is, what shape the heart walls are in, how enlarged the upper chamber is...that would determine whether or not the kitty needs blood thinners. An Enlarged upper chamber with more than average thickened heart walls, is a recipe for clots. The blood backs up into the chamber, because the heart can't pump properly because of it's size and stiffness, and that pooling blood in the upper chamber gets sticky and thick and that's where a clot can form. We need to know all about exactly what our kitty's hearts are doing. Make the vets explain the measurements to us. It's our right to know and the only way we can properly make the decision on how to treat our kitties. If we don't know everything, we can't make the right decisions. I learn that the hard way.

                      Keep open communication with your vets and specialists. That's imperative for proper care.

                      Take care everyone.

                      Carol and Angel Snowball *5/10/91 to 1/1/10*
                      and the gang










                      -----Original Message-----



                      Aspirin has been proven to be very beneficial in humans
                      for heart problems and has saved many human lives when
                      people were in the midst of heart attack and that Aspirin
                      saved their lives. I would have to believe that it has a positive
                      affect on preventing clotting in kitties too.

                      I think it was Carol that had a kitty put on heart meds without
                      blood thinner and it ended up throwing a clot and it passed away
                      within days.






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • C.R.
                      hi Lisa, I don t think you re being paranoid. Although it s not as common, the front legs can also be affected when a kitty throws a clot. If his paws are
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 23, 2010
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                        hi Lisa,

                        I don't think you're being paranoid. Although it's not as common, the front legs can also be affected when a kitty throws a clot. If his paws are still both warm, then it might just be that he sprained it maybe...jumping down from somewhere, maybe he fell on it wrong.

                        I think if he's not walking normally by tomorrow, I'd talk to an internist or a cardiologist if you have either near you. In the meantime, you might try massaging his foot and leg. If it's just a sprain, the massaging can help, and if it was a little clot, the massaging will improve the circulation in the leg and foot.

                        I think I'd also start giving him something for thinning the blood. If you don't want to try aspirin (it's very hard on the liver and stomach), I'd give nattokinase. Make sure you buy a brand that has the vitamin K removed. Vit. K makes blood clot, not what you want for a heart kitty. There are good brands without vit. K.

                        Nutricology Nattozyme is one and Doctor's Best Nattokinase both have the vit. K removed. You can buy them at most health food stores and many places online. There's more info on nattokinase in the group's files.

                        http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/files/Nattokinase/

                        I hope this is not a clot and that he just has a little sprain, but I'd get him checked out tomorrow if it's not any better.

                        hugs,
                        Carol and Angel Snowball
                        and the gang

                        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa Gryschuk" <Lisa@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Hello: I started my HCM guy on Atenolol 6 days ago, 1 dose every 12 hours. He is a 4 out of 5 on heart murmur severity.
                        > Last night I noticed he started limping on his right front leg - sort of like when you first get up after laying on a leg and it is stiff. But the limp hasn't gone away. I have felt paws and it does not seem that one paw is cooler than the other.
                        > The vet said that limping is not a side affect of atenolol.
                        >
                        > Anyone have any thoughts? I worried about a clot - but then figured I was just being paranoid..
                        >
                        > Lisa
                        >
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