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subq fluids, what type, where to store, how long to keep?

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  • jruthaitken
    hi everyone, I have been giving Rigsby subq fluids since his rapid demise at the beginning of May. we started out with 80mls a day (40 x2) and then dropped
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 2, 2010
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      hi everyone,

      I have been giving Rigsby subq fluids since his rapid demise at the beginning of May. we started out with 80mls a day (40 x2) and then dropped down to 50mls per day.

      my question to you all is...
      what kind of fluids do you all use? we are using sodium chloride solution, which says does not contain any micobaterial preservative....and that worries me. he used to be on hartmanns 11 which contained too much potassium so we stopped that.

      where should I store it - I store the sodium chloride in a fridge (in a plastic bag) and then warm it up in a heat pad that i warm in the microwave before use. the problem is, the sodium chloride should not be kept above 25c and I am sure this temperature is exceeded by the heat pad.

      how long should I keep the bag for? it takes us about 10 days to use the bag, but the bag says it is for single use only...
      help!! what should I do?

      he is doing quite well by the way, despite being stage 4 CRF for two years, having diabetes, throwing a clot in december (which he still has in his heart) and having severe HCM. he caught a mouse a few nights ago and brought it to me as a gift at 3.30am! Cats are incredible and resilient creatures aren't they?

      thanks Ruth
    • C.R.
      hi Ruth, I m glad Rigsby is doing so well. That s great to hear. I d be a little wary of using sodium chloride for a heart kitty, but if your vet okay d this,
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 2, 2010
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        hi Ruth,

        I'm glad Rigsby is doing so well. That's great to hear.

        I'd be a little wary of using sodium chloride for a heart kitty, but if your vet okay'd this, then I guess it's okay. But, I might ask them about using plain lacated ringers. I just think the extra sodium wouldn't be what a heart kitty should be having, so check with your vet about that, okay?

        I've been giving subq's for many years(unfortunately), for my crf kitties. The bag is sterile, so it will keep for quite a while. When you plug in the IV line, it still stays sterile. We use one bag for Misty every 10 days, she gets 100 a day.

        You don't need to store them in the fridge, just a cool dry dark place, like a drawer or cabinet or you can hang them up and throw a dark towel over them. That's what we do.

        You should really just warm them up in a sink full of hot water. It only takes a little while before they're warmed enough to use. They shouldn't be "hot", just barely warm. We stick the bag into the hot tap water with the end that the IV line is at sticking out. You don't want to get the connection area wet where the IV goes into the bag. It takes about five minutes for the bag to be warmed. Using a heated disk and having the plastic fluid bag right against it can cause the plastic to become unstable (too much hot heat) and depending on the kind of bag it is, if it's not a DEHP free one, the plastic polymers can leach in to the fluids from the hot heat.

        The bags always say single use, because they're used in hospitals usually for one patient and aren't reused till they're empty. That doesn't really apply to us for our kitties. The thing you do need to change more often in the IV line. Many on the crf groups use one line each bag, but that's not really necessary. We use one line for every 3 bags. You just need to be extra careful with keeping it sterile while changing the lines to a new bag. Don't touch the end of it. Get the new bag all ready and then pull out the line from the old bag and immediately insert it in the new bag. We've been doing it like this for years and never had any problems.

        Here's a link to the supplies info from the crf groups.
        http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt/supplies/compare.htm
        There's tons of info there including where you can buy the fluids. You can also buy your fluids from local pharmacies. We've gotten them from Costco, Target and now I get mine from our little local KML pharmacy out here in California. We pay $32 a case. Some places are even cheaper. A lot of folks on the crf groups get them from Brico. Here's the link to their site. They sell the Hospira brand. Depending on where you live, the shipping can be pricey, highest to the West Coast. We paid $44 a case at Target out here in San Jose, CA. You can call the local pharmacies and ask them for prices. I did that and they were all very nice about it.

        Whatever fluids you end up getting, whether what you're using now or lactated ringers, we think it's a good idea to get the DEHP free bags. BBraun/McGaw and Hospira make DEHP free bags. The Hospira are less expensive than the BBraun. IV sets are much cheaper to get online too. I pay only $2.50 a line from Brico. You can also get lines and needles from Thrivingpets.com.

        http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/chronic-conditions/kidney-renal-disease.html . Just remember that wherever you order from online, the shipping costs might not make it cost effective and you might be able to get everything at your local pharmacy for less.

        I hope this helps. Please write me anytime if you need anymore info about all this. I'm happy to help.

        hugs,
        Carol & Angel Snowball *5/10/91 to 1/1/10*
        & the gang
        http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6bLwo5jPE
      • jruthaitken
        thanks Carole, that is really helpful. I called the specialist to ask about changing to LRS yesterday but she hasn t got back to me yet. we will continue with
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 3, 2010
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          thanks Carole,
          that is really helpful.
          I called the specialist to ask about changing to LRS yesterday but she hasn't got back to me yet. we will continue with sodium chloride over the weekend and then I will contact her again on monday. I will let you know what she says.

          I am very worried about the plastic getting into the fluids because on some occasions the bag has become rather too hot and I have had to cool it down again. I only hope I haven't caused him any harm....
          best wishes
          Ruth

          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "C.R." <carolroars@...> wrote:
          >
          > hi Ruth,
          >
          > I'm glad Rigsby is doing so well. That's great to hear.
          >
          > I'd be a little wary of using sodium chloride for a heart kitty, but if your vet okay'd this, then I guess it's okay. But, I might ask them about using plain lacated ringers. I just think the extra sodium wouldn't be what a heart kitty should be having, so check with your vet about that, okay?
          >
          > I've been giving subq's for many years(unfortunately), for my crf kitties. The bag is sterile, so it will keep for quite a while. When you plug in the IV line, it still stays sterile. We use one bag for Misty every 10 days, she gets 100 a day.
          >
          > You don't need to store them in the fridge, just a cool dry dark place, like a drawer or cabinet or you can hang them up and throw a dark towel over them. That's what we do.
          >
          > You should really just warm them up in a sink full of hot water. It only takes a little while before they're warmed enough to use. They shouldn't be "hot", just barely warm. We stick the bag into the hot tap water with the end that the IV line is at sticking out. You don't want to get the connection area wet where the IV goes into the bag. It takes about five minutes for the bag to be warmed. Using a heated disk and having the plastic fluid bag right against it can cause the plastic to become unstable (too much hot heat) and depending on the kind of bag it is, if it's not a DEHP free one, the plastic polymers can leach in to the fluids from the hot heat.
          >
          > The bags always say single use, because they're used in hospitals usually for one patient and aren't reused till they're empty. That doesn't really apply to us for our kitties. The thing you do need to change more often in the IV line. Many on the crf groups use one line each bag, but that's not really necessary. We use one line for every 3 bags. You just need to be extra careful with keeping it sterile while changing the lines to a new bag. Don't touch the end of it. Get the new bag all ready and then pull out the line from the old bag and immediately insert it in the new bag. We've been doing it like this for years and never had any problems.
          >
          > Here's a link to the supplies info from the crf groups.
          > http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt/supplies/compare.htm
          > There's tons of info there including where you can buy the fluids. You can also buy your fluids from local pharmacies. We've gotten them from Costco, Target and now I get mine from our little local KML pharmacy out here in California. We pay $32 a case. Some places are even cheaper. A lot of folks on the crf groups get them from Brico. Here's the link to their site. They sell the Hospira brand. Depending on where you live, the shipping can be pricey, highest to the West Coast. We paid $44 a case at Target out here in San Jose, CA. You can call the local pharmacies and ask them for prices. I did that and they were all very nice about it.
          >
          > Whatever fluids you end up getting, whether what you're using now or lactated ringers, we think it's a good idea to get the DEHP free bags. BBraun/McGaw and Hospira make DEHP free bags. The Hospira are less expensive than the BBraun. IV sets are much cheaper to get online too. I pay only $2.50 a line from Brico. You can also get lines and needles from Thrivingpets.com.
          >
          > http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/chronic-conditions/kidney-renal-disease.html . Just remember that wherever you order from online, the shipping costs might not make it cost effective and you might be able to get everything at your local pharmacy for less.
          >
          > I hope this helps. Please write me anytime if you need anymore info about all this. I'm happy to help.
          >
          > hugs,
          > Carol & Angel Snowball *5/10/91 to 1/1/10*
          > & the gang
          > http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6bLwo5jPE
          >
        • jruthaitken
          thanks Carole, that is really helpful. I called the specialist to ask about changing to LRS yesterday but she hasn t got back to me yet. we will continue with
          Message 4 of 4 , Jul 3, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            thanks Carole,
            that is really helpful.
            I called the specialist to ask about changing to LRS yesterday but she hasn't got back to me yet. we will continue with sodium chloride over the weekend and then I will contact her again on monday. I will let you know what she says.

            I am very worried about the plastic getting into the fluids because on some occasions the bag has become rather too hot and I have had to cool it down again. I only hope I haven't caused him any harm....
            best wishes
            Ruth

            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "C.R." <carolroars@...> wrote:
            >
            > hi Ruth,
            >
            > I'm glad Rigsby is doing so well. That's great to hear.
            >
            > I'd be a little wary of using sodium chloride for a heart kitty, but if your vet okay'd this, then I guess it's okay. But, I might ask them about using plain lacated ringers. I just think the extra sodium wouldn't be what a heart kitty should be having, so check with your vet about that, okay?
            >
            > I've been giving subq's for many years(unfortunately), for my crf kitties. The bag is sterile, so it will keep for quite a while. When you plug in the IV line, it still stays sterile. We use one bag for Misty every 10 days, she gets 100 a day.
            >
            > You don't need to store them in the fridge, just a cool dry dark place, like a drawer or cabinet or you can hang them up and throw a dark towel over them. That's what we do.
            >
            > You should really just warm them up in a sink full of hot water. It only takes a little while before they're warmed enough to use. They shouldn't be "hot", just barely warm. We stick the bag into the hot tap water with the end that the IV line is at sticking out. You don't want to get the connection area wet where the IV goes into the bag. It takes about five minutes for the bag to be warmed. Using a heated disk and having the plastic fluid bag right against it can cause the plastic to become unstable (too much hot heat) and depending on the kind of bag it is, if it's not a DEHP free one, the plastic polymers can leach in to the fluids from the hot heat.
            >
            > The bags always say single use, because they're used in hospitals usually for one patient and aren't reused till they're empty. That doesn't really apply to us for our kitties. The thing you do need to change more often in the IV line. Many on the crf groups use one line each bag, but that's not really necessary. We use one line for every 3 bags. You just need to be extra careful with keeping it sterile while changing the lines to a new bag. Don't touch the end of it. Get the new bag all ready and then pull out the line from the old bag and immediately insert it in the new bag. We've been doing it like this for years and never had any problems.
            >
            > Here's a link to the supplies info from the crf groups.
            > http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt/supplies/compare.htm
            > There's tons of info there including where you can buy the fluids. You can also buy your fluids from local pharmacies. We've gotten them from Costco, Target and now I get mine from our little local KML pharmacy out here in California. We pay $32 a case. Some places are even cheaper. A lot of folks on the crf groups get them from Brico. Here's the link to their site. They sell the Hospira brand. Depending on where you live, the shipping can be pricey, highest to the West Coast. We paid $44 a case at Target out here in San Jose, CA. You can call the local pharmacies and ask them for prices. I did that and they were all very nice about it.
            >
            > Whatever fluids you end up getting, whether what you're using now or lactated ringers, we think it's a good idea to get the DEHP free bags. BBraun/McGaw and Hospira make DEHP free bags. The Hospira are less expensive than the BBraun. IV sets are much cheaper to get online too. I pay only $2.50 a line from Brico. You can also get lines and needles from Thrivingpets.com.
            >
            > http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/chronic-conditions/kidney-renal-disease.html . Just remember that wherever you order from online, the shipping costs might not make it cost effective and you might be able to get everything at your local pharmacy for less.
            >
            > I hope this helps. Please write me anytime if you need anymore info about all this. I'm happy to help.
            >
            > hugs,
            > Carol & Angel Snowball *5/10/91 to 1/1/10*
            > & the gang
            > http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6bLwo5jPE
            >
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