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Re: [FH] Looking for answers

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  • Westgold
    Dear Cynthia --- yes, there are all kinds of things you could have done, but it would have been expensive, stressful for everybody and would have made your
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 27, 2010
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      Dear Cynthia --- yes, there are all kinds of things you "could" have done, but it would have been expensive, stressful for everybody and would have made your dear little boy suffer more. You did the absolute right thing by letting him go. Now he's happy and healthy again, and thanking you for having the strength to give him that last gift to end his suffering.

      This is something we all have to think about BEFORE we need it. What will we do IF. I was not prepared when my precious soul-kitty Pooh suffered a series of seizures 6 years ago. I took him to the ER and told them money was no object (I brought Dr Mastercard with me), and after a harrowing 10 days in ICU I was able to bring him home. He was practically dead after the seizures, but because of my selfishness, I couldn't bear to let him go without a proper chance to say goodbye. He did live for another 3 1/2 months, but he had a brain tumor and kidney problems and HyperT caused by the heat his body produced during the seizures, and some other smaller things, he was on all kinds of meds which he hated, etc.
      I will never stop regretting that I didn't just let him go right after the seizures, he was half dead anyway.

      They have ALL kinds of things that they can do now -- a well-funded well-equipped animal ER will rival the best human hospital. Animals can be kept alive by machines, with tubes sticking out all over, and all kinds of other horrors. But that doesn't mean we should all use these things all the time. Our cats on this list are all already sick. When something happens, it won't be coming out of the blue -- we already know they're sick and that SOMEDAY things will take a turn for the worse. We have to be prepared.

      I have already made the decisions for if/when Tigger gets worse. Easier treatments like fluid draining, etc are one thing -- but there is a line that needs to be drawn, and I think each one of us should make that decision BEFORE it's needed. It's too stressful to have to make a decision like that on the spot.

      let's all give our kitties extra playtime and extra cuddle time today --

      take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto




      ----- Original Message -----
      From: calebmylove
      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:50 PM
      Subject: [FH] Looking for answers



      Hi, I used to belong to this group but had to create a new account. My Caleb was diagnosed over two years ago with restrictive cardiomyopathy.
      The last few days he was in kidney failure although we didn't know this.
      We took him to a vet clinic and the blood tests confirmed his kidney levels were through the roof.
      We made the very very difficult decision to euthanize him. Even as I made the decision, I was not sure that euthanizing him was the right decision. We could have gone to the major city closest to us (2hours north) and spend thousands to help him. But we didn't have the money.
      I miss him terribly. My husband misses him terribly. I'm wracked with guild about possibly having done more. Caleb wasn't eating, couldn't get comfortable and given his really terrible BUN, CRE, POT, etc. kidney levels, I guess I'm looking to you people for answers. Could/Should I have done more? Given his heart problems and then kidney problems, was there anything else we could have done? I've never felt this awful in my life. I keep questioning everything that was done for him. Could I have done sub-q at home? But would this have effected his heart? He was on plavix, lasix, spiroton, and benazepril for over two years - all the lowest dose. Please please be honest with me. We live in Canada and we have a lack of resources compared to our south neighbours. We only have five vet cardiologists here. The one we could have seen only goes to the clinic 3days a month. Could he have done anything? I'm probably grasping at straws here but I need some honest answers and opinions. I've never been this hurt and sad in my life. My husband is just as sad. I'd appreciate any info. or advice you guys/gals can give me. Thank you in advance,

      Cynthia





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Westgold
      I know you re hurting so much today, Cynthia, but you absolutely did the right thing. Open your heart to a new little boy, he will find you. Any kitty would
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 27, 2010
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        I know you're hurting so much today, Cynthia, but you absolutely did the right thing. Open your heart to a new little boy, he will find you. Any kitty would be thrilled to have you to take care of him. He will help you heal. I put in an order for a new Scottish Fold boy shortly after I helped Pooh move up to heaven, and Tigger was born exactly one month after Pooh left me. I don't know if Pooh picked him out for me, but I was glad he was red and white so I could name him Tigger Too. He's nothing like Pooh, but he sure helped heal my broken heart. But Tigger has HCM, and so now he is my special little boy. Just he open ....

        take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Cynthia Halligan
        To: Westgold
        Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 4:50 PM
        Subject: Re: [FH] Looking for answers


        Thank you Michelle for your very kind words and truly, an important perspective in all of this. I'm sorry to hear about your furbaby but it sounds like we might have gone through the same things and your very right, would have been more suffering. I guess its just hard, the pain we are feeling right now and I at least keep going back between this selfless thing I did to let him go and the selfishness of wanting him to stay around longer to avoid that pain. Thank Michelle for putting this into another perspective, as it truly helps me deal with the pain alittle better. Hugs from a previous Ontarian, and now in Alberta, but miss Ontario very much. Cynthia




        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        From: Westgold <westgold@...>
        To: calebmylove <calebmylove@...>; feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sat, March 27, 2010 2:30:59 PM
        Subject: Re: [FH] Looking for answers


        Dear Cynthia --- yes, there are all kinds of things you "could" have done, but it would have been expensive, stressful for everybody and would have made your dear little boy suffer more. You did the absolute right thing by letting him go. Now he's happy and healthy again, and thanking you for having the strength to give him that last gift to end his suffering.

        This is something we all have to think about BEFORE we need it. What will we do IF. I was not prepared when my precious soul-kitty Pooh suffered a series of seizures 6 years ago. I took him to the ER and told them money was no object (I brought Dr Mastercard with me), and after a harrowing 10 days in ICU I was able to bring him home. He was practically dead after the seizures, but because of my selfishness, I couldn't bear to let him go without a proper chance to say goodbye. He did live for another 3 1/2 months, but he had a brain tumor and kidney problems and HyperT caused by the heat his body produced during the seizures, and some other smaller things, he was on all kinds of meds which he hated, etc.
        I will never stop regretting that I didn't just let him go right after the seizures, he was half dead anyway.

        They have ALL kinds of things that they can do now -- a well-funded well-equipped animal ER will rival the best human hospital. Animals can be kept alive by machines, with tubes sticking out all over, and all kinds of other horrors. But that doesn't mean we should all use these things all the time. Our cats on this list are all already sick. When something happens, it won't be coming out of the blue -- we already know they're sick and that SOMEDAY things will take a turn for the worse. We have to be prepared.

        I have already made the decisions for if/when Tigger gets worse. Easier treatments like fluid draining, etc are one thing -- but there is a line that needs to be drawn, and I think each one of us should make that decision BEFORE it's needed. It's too stressful to have to make a decision like that on the spot.

        let's all give our kitties extra playtime and extra cuddle time today --

        take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: calebmylove
        To: feline-heart@ yahoogroups. com
        Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:50 PM
        Subject: [FH] Looking for answers

        Hi, I used to belong to this group but had to create a new account. My Caleb was diagnosed over two years ago with restrictive cardiomyopathy.
        The last few days he was in kidney failure although we didn't know this.
        We took him to a vet clinic and the blood tests confirmed his kidney levels were through the roof.
        We made the very very difficult decision to euthanize him. Even as I made the decision, I was not sure that euthanizing him was the right decision. We could have gone to the major city closest to us (2hours north) and spend thousands to help him. But we didn't have the money.
        I miss him terribly. My husband misses him terribly. I'm wracked with guild about possibly having done more. Caleb wasn't eating, couldn't get comfortable and given his really terrible BUN, CRE, POT, etc. kidney levels, I guess I'm looking to you people for answers. Could/Should I have done more? Given his heart problems and then kidney problems, was there anything else we could have done? I've never felt this awful in my life. I keep questioning everything that was done for him. Could I have done sub-q at home? But would this have effected his heart? He was on plavix, lasix, spiroton, and benazepril for over two years - all the lowest dose. Please please be honest with me. We live in Canada and we have a lack of resources compared to our south neighbours. We only have five vet cardiologists here. The one we could have seen only goes to the clinic 3days a month. Could he have done anything? I'm probably grasping at straws here but I need some honest answers and opinions. I've never been this hurt and sad in my life. My husband is just as sad. I'd appreciate any info. or advice you guys/gals can give me. Thank you in advance,

        Cynthia

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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      • elfinmyst@aol.com
        Hi Cynthia YOu have nothing whatsoever to blame yourself for. Someone on this list once told me early on that a prolonged life should never be a prolonged
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 28, 2010
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          Hi Cynthia

          YOu have nothing whatsoever to blame yourself for. Someone on this list
          once told me early on that a prolonged life should never be a prolonged death.
          I would have done exactly the same and kidney failure is a painful and
          terminal illness at that stage. His low dose medications would not have caused
          kidney failure like that, but more likely the heart disease.

          You can't treat both and you gave Caleb a couple of years of life that were
          precious and wonderful. RCM is not easy to treat and does not carry a good
          prognosis and if he had several wonderful years I would say you did all
          you could and more.

          We all have to face that choice. My 19yr old Arnie went to vet for
          'spitting out food and weight loss'. He had thyroid and various other problems..
          the vet showed me a tumor in the roof of his mouth. I could have made the
          choice to use painkillers and assisted feeding but for Arnie that was no life.
          It was a terminal illness and we gave him the last act of kindness we
          could. I still question that decision, but know in my heart it was the right
          one.

          Guilt is a natural part of grieving. You're a special person, Cynthia and
          my thoughts and prayers are with you as Caleb passes to the bridge.

          Love Lyn

          _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Diane
          Still so confused about what happened with Houdini. The vet couldn t find any obvious cause of death and is looking to see if she can get some biopsies done.
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 14, 2013
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            Still so confused about what happened with Houdini. The vet couldn't
            find any obvious cause of death and is looking to see if she can get
            some biopsies done.

            This is what I remember from the conversation with the vet Friday
            night (she woke me up): She had an enlarged heart, gall bladder
            stones and her liver was mottled. I don't think she found anything in
            her throat to cause the little gagging issue she had. I'll have to
            double check on the possible embolism to her lungs, the vet had been
            concerned about it but I think what she said last night was that she
            didn't see any evidence.

            I talked to the vet who did the cleaning yesterday. He'd been beating
            himself up since our talks on Friday before I brought her in,
            thinking maybe he should have done the hyper-t treatment first for a
            couple of months. But he felt her numbers were not that bad and her
            teeth and gums were horrible. She lost a number of teeth when he
            touched them, to the point where he didn't consider them an
            extraction. He's been doing dentals (and other surgeries for over 30
            years) and he's done this before. He said other than her jumping
            around a bit when they took her out of the cage before the cleaning,
            everything went well and it was actually a very quick cleaning. She's
            feral so the jumping is to be expected, hell I warned him about claws
            as her brother shredded his arms a couple of years ago! Her heart
            rate was a little fast when he examined her Sunday but again, to be
            expected as it was the first time she had been out of the house in 17
            years! Car ride, dogs barking in the background, strange people - oh
            my! It was NOT irregular on Sunday but was when I brought her in
            Friday night.

            She was given a reversible anesthesia (sorry, I don't know more than
            that but I've seen it mentioned.) She had gotten a long-lasting
            antibiotic shot on Sunday when we were in the office. She got
            Buprenex (sp) Thursday for pain, but nothing came home with us.
            Sunday she also got a shot for inflammation for her gums.

            They called Thursday at 3:45 to say she was waking up and I could
            pick her up around 5. We didn't get there till about 7:30 so she was
            under their observation till then. She was on her feet when they
            brought her to us in the carrier. When we got her home, she paced the
            entire house multiple times, seemed a bit groggy and weak and didn't
            want to settle down for long, but she was walking and managing the
            stairs, up and down. She did seem to drink (she drinks using her paw
            so she can make quite the mess, I wiped the hall twice). I gave her
            wet food mixed with water which she didn't touch. They told me she'd
            likely be groggy and disoriented. I cleaned her litter box and found
            a little poop in it not long after.

            We have a carpeted board hanging off the basement landing and she was
            on that for a bit, then upstairs, then down. All over really.

            In hindsight maybe I should've closed the basement door, but again
            with her being feral, the basement was her safe place. Any time I
            closed that door with her upstairs, it would send her into a panic
            and I didn't want that. I could however lock her down there and she'd
            be fine. We have another adopted cat that was abused in her past life
            and she's the same, any change like that just freaks them out. I
            didn't want to stress her any more.

            My bf got up at 4:30 Friday morning and found her in the basement
            behind the washer. She actually meowed to him as he was calling her
            name. She was still there when I got up. I put food and water near
            her and left the house for two hours, and when I came back she was
            still back there. I then placed her on a folded fleece when she
            refused to stay in front of it on a towel. She had drunk but I doubt
            she ate. I think this was when I went up to send you guys my first
            message and in that 15 mins she came out from behind the washer,
            threw up (only time) and then went back. I went to my other job and
            came back around 1 and decided to bring her upstairs and stay home
            for the day after seeing her try to jump on the couch and miss as she
            had no strength. She was moving around better earlier in the morning
            although she didn't want to - if I put her in front of the washer,
            she'd scurry in the back again.

            In the couple of hours before I brought her in, she went from having
            a gasp/gag/couch every couple of minutes which I (and the vet)
            thought was the cough they told me she may have from the tube. She
            didn't have it the night before. I brought her in when it became
            every breath and turned into open mouthed breathing. After being in
            the oxygen cage for over an hour, that turned back into once every
            couple of minutes and she was not open mouth breathing anymore. Even
            once seeing it, the vet felt that something had happened to her
            throat. She had put an numbing agent on it in hopes of helping that
            ease but it never fully went away.

            Could this be a delayed reaction to the anesthesia? I'd have thought
            it would have happened sooner. I just don't know what to think. I am
            heartbroken to think that I hurt her by trying to clean her teeth,
            which I have done to other cats that needed it, even old ones! She's
            just been my smallest. And she was probably just 17, as I found them
            summer of 1996 and they were a few months old then.

            It stuns me to realize that just a week ago, we were joking about her
            first trip outside. She was a relatively healthy cat, skinny and
            vocal, but still full of piss and vinegar and jumping on the
            counters, bed, cabinets. My bf had to hold her from jumping on a
            hanging wall unit at the vet. And 5 days later I watched her go
            downhill, and I caused it.

            Any comments would be so much appreciated. I'm trying to learn from
            this. I had promised myself no heroic efforts for her or her brothers
            but my options last week seemed to be clean her teeth & rub a gel in
            her ears when she graced me with her presence, put her to sleep as
            she wasn't eating much, or bring her home and watch her waste away to
            nothing. Option 1 seemed like the best one at the time and she seemed
            to be so much better with letting us handle her. It all seemed to
            fall into place, we caught her Sunday, I caught her Thursday etc. The
            vet gave me an open appointment - whenever I could catch her again
            I'd bring her in on a Thursday, so I didn't need to bring her in the
            other day, it just all worked. But now she's gone and I feel I did
            her so wrong. She sure didn't deserve this for her last day. :(

            Sadly,
            Diane
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