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RE: [FH] My cat's problems with Atenolol

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  • Carol R.
    Karen, Ask the vet to give you a prescription to get it compounded into a transdermal cream. Snowball never threw up from the cream. The only thing about the
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 4, 2010
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      Karen,



      Ask the vet to give you a prescription to get it compounded into a transdermal cream. Snowball never threw up from the cream. The only thing about the cream, and vets won't admit this, is that it doesn't work as well as the oral medication. They don't absorb all of the dose you rub into the skin in the inner ear as well, so you'll have to experiment with the dose to get it to what will work for Sydney.



      Here's some information on the comparison of the two.

      http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/ajvr.69.1.39



      Conclusions and Clinical Relevance�Oral administration of atenolol at a median dose of 1.1 mg/kg every 12 hours (range, 0.8 to 1.5 mg/kg) in cats induced effective plasma concentrations at 2 hours after treatment in most cats. Transdermal administration provided lower and inconsistent plasma atenolol concentrations. Further studies are needed to find an effective formulation and dosing scheme for transdermal administration of atenolol.

      I still think the cream is a good option, but you just need to give more potent doses. The compounding pharmacy can make the dose however strong as you need. Remember that you're rubbing it into the tiny upper hairless area on the inside of the ear, so there's not much space for a big glob of cream to rub in. We had Snowball's cream made so that we only had to use .05cc, which is like just half a drop of stuff...very very tiny. The pharmacy can make the potency of the cream to match the amount administered. It came in 1cc syringes and you plunge out the needed amount for the dose. The .05cc is very small, but we found that was as much cream as we could get rubbed into her ear. Any more than that and we couldn't get it to soak in.

      The other thing you might try is ask the vet or pharmacy for a different brand of Atenolol. Different brands have different fillers and it might be something in that that's making Sydney spew it up.

      Sometimes CoQ10 makes them spew too. Snowball always spewed her up, till I found a brand that she didn't bring back up. The one we eventually got her to keep down was Natural Factors, the one with the little bit of vit. E in it for absorption. It was little softgels and I'd poke them and squeez out the contents into a little wad of food and she ate it up...no more spewing the pill. She didn't mind the taste of the Natural Factors one. They're 50mg softgels, but I figured she got about 30 since I couldn't really get it all squeezed out of the gel. This is the one we got. http://tinyurl.com/ygeckt6









      Carol & Angel Snowball *5/10/91 to 1/1/10*
      & the gang


      http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/

      Snowball's videos
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6bLwo5jPE
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxKQH2mM-d0
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg48_zK3b24
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODcUI5PReXo
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqO6UZ4a3VE




      > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      > From: hippkaren@...
      > Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 15:46:21 +0000
      > Subject: [FH] My cat's problems with Atenolol
      >
      > Just last week, I started my cat Sydney on Atenolol
      > from the cardioligist recommendation after the echo.
      > He is on a very small dose (about 6mg 1x a day),
      > but he is throwing it up.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • cococy45
      Could it be that the manufacturer of the atenolol makes the difference in how the cat reacts to the drug? Mellie has always taken atenolol made by Teva,
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 5, 2010
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        Could it be that the manufacturer of the atenolol makes the difference in how the cat reacts to the drug?

        Mellie has always taken atenolol made by Teva, imprint is 93 and 787 which we've always had filled at RiteAid. We recently had it filled at Costco and the manufacturer is Sandoz with imprint GG L7.

        I am very hesitant to try switching brands as she's never had a problem with the Teva brand. It is just a thought that the problem could be the brand. What do you think?

        carol and mellie

        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Carol R. <carolroars@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Karen,
        >
        >
        >
        > Ask the vet to give you a prescription to get it compounded into a transdermal cream. Snowball never threw up from the cream. The only thing about the cream, and vets won't admit this, is that it doesn't work as well as the oral medication. They don't absorb all of the dose you rub into the skin in the inner ear as well, so you'll have to experiment with the dose to get it to what will work for Sydney.
        >
        >
        >
        > Here's some information on the comparison of the two.
        >
        > http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/ajvr.69.1.39
        >
        >
        >
        > Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Oral administration of atenolol at a median dose of 1.1 mg/kg every 12 hours (range, 0.8 to 1.5 mg/kg) in cats induced effective plasma concentrations at 2 hours after treatment in most cats. Transdermal administration provided lower and inconsistent plasma atenolol concentrations. Further studies are needed to find an effective formulation and dosing scheme for transdermal administration of atenolol.
        >
        > I still think the cream is a good option, but you just need to give more potent doses. The compounding pharmacy can make the dose however strong as you need. Remember that you're rubbing it into the tiny upper hairless area on the inside of the ear, so there's not much space for a big glob of cream to rub in. We had Snowball's cream made so that we only had to use .05cc, which is like just half a drop of stuff...very very tiny. The pharmacy can make the potency of the cream to match the amount administered. It came in 1cc syringes and you plunge out the needed amount for the dose. The .05cc is very small, but we found that was as much cream as we could get rubbed into her ear. Any more than that and we couldn't get it to soak in.
        >
        > The other thing you might try is ask the vet or pharmacy for a different brand of Atenolol. Different brands have different fillers and it might be something in that that's making Sydney spew it up.
        >
        > Sometimes CoQ10 makes them spew too. Snowball always spewed her up, till I found a brand that she didn't bring back up. The one we eventually got her to keep down was Natural Factors, the one with the little bit of vit. E in it for absorption. It was little softgels and I'd poke them and squeez out the contents into a little wad of food and she ate it up...no more spewing the pill. She didn't mind the taste of the Natural Factors one. They're 50mg softgels, but I figured she got about 30 since I couldn't really get it all squeezed out of the gel. This is the one we got. http://tinyurl.com/ygeckt6
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Carol & Angel Snowball *5/10/91 to 1/1/10*
        > & the gang
        >
        >
        > http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/
        >
        > Snowball's videos
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6bLwo5jPE
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxKQH2mM-d0
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg48_zK3b24
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODcUI5PReXo
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqO6UZ4a3VE
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        > > From: hippkaren@...
        > > Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 15:46:21 +0000
        > > Subject: [FH] My cat's problems with Atenolol
        > >
        > > Just last week, I started my cat Sydney on Atenolol
        > > from the cardioligist recommendation after the echo.
        > > He is on a very small dose (about 6mg 1x a day),
        > > but he is throwing it up.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Judi Levens
        I don t think there is a difference between manufacturers...I take Atenolol, could also be called Tenormin and Wallmart has another name for it ($4 on their
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 5, 2010
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          I don't think there is a difference between manufacturers...I take Atenolol, could also be called Tenormin and Wallmart has another name for it ($4 on their special program) which I can't remember...but I notice no difference from one to the other...all are different manufacturers. Might be over-thinking this one...Judi and Max









          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          From: czyonov@...
          Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 16:37:37 +0000
          Subject: [FH] Re: My cat's problems with Atenolol





          Could it be that the manufacturer of the atenolol makes the difference in how the cat reacts to the drug?

          Mellie has always taken atenolol made by Teva, imprint is 93 and 787 which we've always had filled at RiteAid. We recently had it filled at Costco and the manufacturer is Sandoz with imprint GG L7.

          I am very hesitant to try switching brands as she's never had a problem with the Teva brand. It is just a thought that the problem could be the brand. What do you think?

          carol and mellie

          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Carol R. <carolroars@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Karen,
          >
          >
          >
          > Ask the vet to give you a prescription to get it compounded into a transdermal cream. Snowball never threw up from the cream. The only thing about the cream, and vets won't admit this, is that it doesn't work as well as the oral medication. They don't absorb all of the dose you rub into the skin in the inner ear as well, so you'll have to experiment with the dose to get it to what will work for Sydney.
          >
          >
          >
          > Here's some information on the comparison of the two.
          >
          > http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/ajvr.69.1.39
          >
          >
          >
          > Conclusions and Clinical Relevance�Oral administration of atenolol at a median dose of 1.1 mg/kg every 12 hours (range, 0.8 to 1.5 mg/kg) in cats induced effective plasma concentrations at 2 hours after treatment in most cats. Transdermal administration provided lower and inconsistent plasma atenolol concentrations. Further studies are needed to find an effective formulation and dosing scheme for transdermal administration of atenolol.
          >
          > I still think the cream is a good option, but you just need to give more potent doses. The compounding pharmacy can make the dose however strong as you need. Remember that you're rubbing it into the tiny upper hairless area on the inside of the ear, so there's not much space for a big glob of cream to rub in. We had Snowball's cream made so that we only had to use .05cc, which is like just half a drop of stuff...very very tiny. The pharmacy can make the potency of the cream to match the amount administered. It came in 1cc syringes and you plunge out the needed amount for the dose. The .05cc is very small, but we found that was as much cream as we could get rubbed into her ear. Any more than that and we couldn't get it to soak in.
          >
          > The other thing you might try is ask the vet or pharmacy for a different brand of Atenolol. Different brands have different fillers and it might be something in that that's making Sydney spew it up.
          >
          > Sometimes CoQ10 makes them spew too. Snowball always spewed her up, till I found a brand that she didn't bring back up. The one we eventually got her to keep down was Natural Factors, the one with the little bit of vit. E in it for absorption. It was little softgels and I'd poke them and squeez out the contents into a little wad of food and she ate it up...no more spewing the pill. She didn't mind the taste of the Natural Factors one. They're 50mg softgels, but I figured she got about 30 since I couldn't really get it all squeezed out of the gel. This is the one we got. http://tinyurl.com/ygeckt6
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Carol & Angel Snowball *5/10/91 to 1/1/10*
          > & the gang
          >
          >
          > http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/
          >
          > Snowball's videos
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6bLwo5jPE
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxKQH2mM-d0
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg48_zK3b24
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODcUI5PReXo
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqO6UZ4a3VE
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          > > From: hippkaren@...
          > > Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 15:46:21 +0000
          > > Subject: [FH] My cat's problems with Atenolol
          > >
          > > Just last week, I started my cat Sydney on Atenolol
          > > from the cardioligist recommendation after the echo.
          > > He is on a very small dose (about 6mg 1x a day),
          > > but he is throwing it up.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Westgold
          I believe that the form you use is probably causing the problems. Each form has different ingredients. For example, most pills contain corn starch and
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 5, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            I believe that the form you use is probably causing the problems. Each form has different ingredients. For example, most "pills" contain corn starch and other fillers to hold them in a pill shape. Maybe your kitty is sensitive to one of the fillers. The cream has some kind of lubricants and other ingredients that some are sensitive to. The treat form (which Tigg hated) are a funny color, so they obviously contain dyes. I use the beef-flavored liquid, and it doesn't smell much, so it blends right into the wet food. You may have to try all the forms to find one that your kitty will tolerate.

            take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: cococy45
            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 11:37 AM
            Subject: [FH] Re: My cat's problems with Atenolol



            Could it be that the manufacturer of the atenolol makes the difference in how the cat reacts to the drug?

            Mellie has always taken atenolol made by Teva, imprint is 93 and 787 which we've always had filled at RiteAid. We recently had it filled at Costco and the manufacturer is Sandoz with imprint GG L7.

            I am very hesitant to try switching brands as she's never had a problem with the Teva brand. It is just a thought that the problem could be the brand. What do you think?

            carol and mellie

            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Carol R. <carolroars@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Karen,
            >
            >
            >
            > Ask the vet to give you a prescription to get it compounded into a transdermal cream. Snowball never threw up from the cream. The only thing about the cream, and vets won't admit this, is that it doesn't work as well as the oral medication. They don't absorb all of the dose you rub into the skin in the inner ear as well, so you'll have to experiment with the dose to get it to what will work for Sydney.
            >
            >
            >
            > Here's some information on the comparison of the two.
            >
            > http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/ajvr.69.1.39
            >
            >
            >
            > Conclusions and Clinical Relevance-Oral administration of atenolol at a median dose of 1.1 mg/kg every 12 hours (range, 0.8 to 1.5 mg/kg) in cats induced effective plasma concentrations at 2 hours after treatment in most cats. Transdermal administration provided lower and inconsistent plasma atenolol concentrations. Further studies are needed to find an effective formulation and dosing scheme for transdermal administration of atenolol.
            >
            > I still think the cream is a good option, but you just need to give more potent doses. The compounding pharmacy can make the dose however strong as you need. Remember that you're rubbing it into the tiny upper hairless area on the inside of the ear, so there's not much space for a big glob of cream to rub in. We had Snowball's cream made so that we only had to use .05cc, which is like just half a drop of stuff...very very tiny. The pharmacy can make the potency of the cream to match the amount administered. It came in 1cc syringes and you plunge out the needed amount for the dose. The .05cc is very small, but we found that was as much cream as we could get rubbed into her ear. Any more than that and we couldn't get it to soak in.
            >
            > The other thing you might try is ask the vet or pharmacy for a different brand of Atenolol. Different brands have different fillers and it might be something in that that's making Sydney spew it up.
            >
            > Sometimes CoQ10 makes them spew too. Snowball always spewed her up, till I found a brand that she didn't bring back up. The one we eventually got her to keep down was Natural Factors, the one with the little bit of vit. E in it for absorption. It was little softgels and I'd poke them and squeez out the contents into a little wad of food and she ate it up...no more spewing the pill. She didn't mind the taste of the Natural Factors one. They're 50mg softgels, but I figured she got about 30 since I couldn't really get it all squeezed out of the gel. This is the one we got. http://tinyurl.com/ygeckt6
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Carol & Angel Snowball *5/10/91 to 1/1/10*
            > & the gang
            >
            >
            > http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/
            >
            > Snowball's videos
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6bLwo5jPE
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxKQH2mM-d0
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg48_zK3b24
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODcUI5PReXo
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqO6UZ4a3VE
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            > > From: hippkaren@...
            > > Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 15:46:21 +0000
            > > Subject: [FH] My cat's problems with Atenolol
            > >
            > > Just last week, I started my cat Sydney on Atenolol
            > > from the cardioligist recommendation after the echo.
            > > He is on a very small dose (about 6mg 1x a day),
            > > but he is throwing it up.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Carol R.
            I do think the manufacturer makes a difference. When we gave Misty Tapazole brand methimazole, she puked it up. We tried a generic brand and she was okay with
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 5, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              I do think the manufacturer makes a difference. When we gave Misty Tapazole brand methimazole, she puked it up. We tried a generic brand and she was okay with that. I do think whatever exipients they put in the pills can cause a reaction in different cats. I always got Snowball Sandoz brand injectable ondansetron (anti nausea med), then the pharmacy gave me a different one once and it would sting everytime I gave her an injection. I got them to get me the Sandoz one again and no stinging. Once I find a brand that they can take and not spew up, I never accept any other.



              Sometimes Costco pharmacies only have certain brands that they contract with. They buy in huge quantities from their selected vendors, and that's why they're cheaper. But it's not always good, because we can't get the brands we know work for our kitties.









              Carol & Angel Snowball *5/10/91 to 1/1/10*
              & the gang


              http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/

              Snowball's videos
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6bLwo5jPE
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxKQH2mM-d0
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg48_zK3b24
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODcUI5PReXo
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqO6UZ4a3VE




              > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              > From: czyonov@...
              > Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 16:37:37 +0000
              > Subject: [FH] Re: My cat's problems with Atenolol
              >
              > Could it be that the manufacturer of the atenolol makes the difference in how the cat reacts to the drug?
              >
              > Mellie has always taken atenolol made by Teva, imprint is 93 and 787 which we've always had filled at RiteAid. We recently had it filled at Costco and the manufacturer is Sandoz with imprint GG L7.
              >
              > I am very hesitant to try switching brands as she's never had a problem with the Teva brand. It is just a thought that the problem could be the brand. What do you think?
              >
              > carol and mellie
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Carol R.
              I really agree with this. Kitties stomachs are so much more sensitive to things like that than our own are. So many drugs that we take and can switch from
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 5, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                I really agree with this. Kitties' stomachs are so much more sensitive to things like that than our own are. So many drugs that we take and can switch from one brand to another without a problem, you just can't do that with some kitties. A lot of those fillers have a lot of chemicals in them, and cats' stomachs may not be able to break those things down, causing so much more stomach acid to be produced to get the job done... the result is they throw up to get all that acid out of their tummies.













                Carol & Angel Snowball *5/10/91 to 1/1/10*
                & the gang


                http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6bLwo5jPE





                I believe that the form you use is probably causing the problems. Each form has different ingredients. For example, most "pills" contain corn starch and other fillers to hold them in a pill shape. Maybe your kitty is sensitive to one of the fillers.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • JudithG
                Yes, of course, the drug manufacturer makes a difference. A while back physicians caught on and the suggestion is stay with the brand you are on. Right, tell
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 6, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Yes, of course, the drug manufacturer makes a difference. A while back physicians caught on and the suggestion is stay with the brand you are on. Right, tell that to the insurance companies and my health fund.

                  One big thing to watch out for is that while the name brand may have sucrose (plain sugar), many generics use lactose. Cats are usually lactose intolerant and avoiding meds with lactose is a good idea (I'm lactose intolerant so this is a big problem with me). L actose intolerance means nauseau, upset stomach, diarrea.

                  Judith
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