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Re: [FH] Options for heart kitties when they can't have anesthesia?

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  • Westgold
    wel, that runny eye and some of the sneezing could be plain ole herpes. Most cats have it to some degree, some are really bad. Ask your vet about this. It
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 6, 2010
      wel, that runny eye and some of the sneezing could be plain ole herpes. Most cats have it to some degree, some are really bad. Ask your vet about this. It can be controlled with a supplement of lysine, 500 mg twice a day -- but check to make sure it won't interfere with anything else he's getting. It takes a while to work, esp if it's a bad case -- it took me 3 months to see a difference in Tigger. But don't stop the lysine, just keep it up - unfortunately herpes is forever, there is no cure, but the lysine does a great job of controlling it.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: dshale1
      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:30 PM
      Subject: Re: [FH] Options for heart kitties when they can't have anesthesia?



      Thanks, the vet did recommend that we raise the humidity in the house and take her in the bathroom with us when we took a shower or bath. I have also put a vaporizer near where she sleeps. It's been a week since we started doing those things and I think she may be sneezing less but when she does there is still yellow or bloody mucus discharge and her eye is still watering profusely.
      -Susan

      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Westgold" <westgold@...> wrote:
      >
      > yes, this is a great idea --- be careful of the hot water tho -- put Pye in a carrier, and put the carrier next to the tub with the hot water running. I did that for Tigger when he had bordatella when I first bought him -- it helped a lot.
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Cathy Mack
      > To: dshale1 ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 2:37 PM
      > Subject: Re: [FH] Options for heart kitties when they can't have anesthesia?
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi Susan,
      >
      > I'm sorry to hear that sweet little Pye is still having these problems. Although I can't comment on the cause of the problems, I'd like to suggest something to help eleviate them and to make her more comfortable. I've had a score of similar problems with my kitties as I've taken in many ferals. Rather than using antibiotics, I've found that using steam really helps clear the discharges and makes them much more comfortable while their little bodies are fighting it off. I usually lock the affected kitty up in the bathroom and turn on the hot water in the shower for a minute to fill the room with steam. It works on humans, too, so I trust it is helping the kitties.
      >
      > Best wishes to you and Pye,
      >
      > Cathy
      >





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lisa Clarizia
      Baby Boy, whose heart was a complete mess, got isofluorane gas and butorphenol during the time when he was getting chest taps every other day. It s my
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 6, 2010
        Baby Boy, whose heart was a complete mess, got isofluorane gas and
        butorphenol during the time when he was getting chest taps every other day.

        It's my understanding that those are the two safest options, insofar as
        anesthesia can ever be safe for a heart kitty, and that ketamine is the one
        to avoid.

        I guess to be on the safe side you can try the different abx first, and see
        if they help. Ultimately, it's a quality of life thing -- if she does get
        bad enough that her quality of life is bad, you may want to risk the
        anesthesia.

        Lisa


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • dshale1
        Thanks, I guess right now the cardiologist is saying he doesn t think it s worth the risk, since her heart disease is severe but stable. I just think if it is
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 6, 2010
          Thanks, I guess right now the cardiologist is saying he doesn't think it's worth the risk, since her heart disease is severe but stable. I just think if it is a nasal cancer, those can often be treated with radiation or chemo and I think some of those are relatively safe for a heart kitty. But I don't know how they can diagnose without doing something, maybe a CT scan.

          Although it's breaking my heart to imagine it either way, I think I'd almost rather risk her dying of heart failure than of cancer.
          -Susan

          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Clarizia <lclarizia@...> wrote:
          >
          > Baby Boy, whose heart was a complete mess, got isofluorane gas and
          > butorphenol during the time when he was getting chest taps every other day.
          >
          > It's my understanding that those are the two safest options, insofar as
          > anesthesia can ever be safe for a heart kitty, and that ketamine is the one
          > to avoid.
          >
          > I guess to be on the safe side you can try the different abx first, and see
          > if they help. Ultimately, it's a quality of life thing -- if she does get
          > bad enough that her quality of life is bad, you may want to risk the
          > anesthesia.
          >
          > Lisa
          >
        • janie
          My Boomer is sneezing her head off. She has for a few weeks and runny eyes and nose. She was tested by one vet for herpes and it was neg. Our other vet says
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 7, 2010
            My Boomer is sneezing her head off. She has for a few weeks and runny
            eyes and nose. She was tested by one vet for herpes and it was neg.
            Our other vet says the test is not always right. (So waste my money on
            the test.) Anyway Boomer has done this every year at the holidays
            through Jan. I feel it is an allergy or herpes. She is better today
            and it is pretty clear and she is eating. So unless it turns yellow
            or she doesnt feel well we will ride it out. I have tried the lysine
            but its hard to give to her. I may get some and try again.
            I dont know about cats but I would I have DCM and I can take some
            antihistim no DM. I think your cats problems sinus. Can you give
            maybe a saline type nose spray like we use. I dont feel like its a
            tumor.

            What type test do you have to have that they must put the cat under??

            From sneezers palace. Janie
          • Westgold
            Get that lysine powder in capsules from puritan.com that I recommended -- itmixes in food instantly, they don t even know it s there. It sure sounds like
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 7, 2010
              Get that lysine powder in capsules from puritan.com that I recommended -- itmixes in food instantly, they don't even know it's there. It sure sounds like that's what she has!!!
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: janie
              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:17 PM
              Subject: [FH] Re:Options for heart kitties when they can't have anesthesia?



              My Boomer is sneezing her head off. She has for a few weeks and runny
              eyes and nose. She was tested by one vet for herpes and it was neg.
              Our other vet says the test is not always right. (So waste my money on
              the test.) Anyway Boomer has done this every year at the holidays
              through Jan. I feel it is an allergy or herpes. She is better today
              and it is pretty clear and she is eating. So unless it turns yellow
              or she doesnt feel well we will ride it out. I have tried the lysine
              but its hard to give to her. I may get some and try again.
              I dont know about cats but I would I have DCM and I can take some
              antihistim no DM. I think your cats problems sinus. Can you give
              maybe a saline type nose spray like we use. I dont feel like its a
              tumor.

              What type test do you have to have that they must put the cat under??

              From sneezers palace. Janie




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dshale1
              Thanks, Janie. Pye s nasal discharge is just from one nostril, which makes allergies less likely but the vet said a sinus infection on one side is possible.
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 8, 2010
                Thanks, Janie. Pye's nasal discharge is just from one nostril, which makes allergies less likely but the vet said a sinus infection on one side is possible. She is currently on Baytril but it's only been a couple days. The nasal discharge is mainly bloody mucus now and her eye on that side is watering more profusely, meaning the tear duct is blocked.

                I did try using preservative free nasal spray--I bought Little Noses, which is for babies. The insides of her nostrils look inflamed now and I am thinking maybe the saline spray is too irritating. What kind are you using? It might also be because I am using a Q-tip soaked in saline to try to swab the discharge from her nostrils. It dries and stuffs up her nose (which is probably what is happening inside her nose too).

                What is the herpes virus test your cat had? As far as I know they didn't do that for Pye.

                The diagnostics that require anesthesia are x-rays of the inside of the mouth (to view the nasal cavities), a nasal flush to get a sample of what's in the nasal cavities, CT scan, rhinoscopy. The cardiologist said no because anesthesia is too risky for Pye.

                I did start giving her lysine last week, in her food, although the last couple days she doesn't much want to eat it if the lysine is in it. I thought lysine takes a long time to have an effect if it's going to help, is that right?

                I'm glad Boomer is feeling better.

                Thanks-
                Susan

                --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, janie <sockster@...> wrote:
                >
                > My Boomer is sneezing her head off. She has for a few weeks and runny
                > eyes and nose. She was tested by one vet for herpes and it was neg.
                > Our other vet says the test is not always right. (So waste my money on
                > the test.) Anyway Boomer has done this every year at the holidays
                > through Jan. I feel it is an allergy or herpes. She is better today
                > and it is pretty clear and she is eating. So unless it turns yellow
                > or she doesnt feel well we will ride it out. I have tried the lysine
                > but its hard to give to her. I may get some and try again.
                > I dont know about cats but I would I have DCM and I can take some
                > antihistim no DM. I think your cats problems sinus. Can you give
                > maybe a saline type nose spray like we use. I dont feel like its a
                > tumor.
                >
                > What type test do you have to have that they must put the cat under??
                >
                > From sneezers palace. Janie
                >
              • janie
                Dont waste your money on the herpes test. I did do it last year and now this vet says it is really not accurate. They can have watery eyes nose for 9-21 days.
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 10, 2010
                  Dont waste your money on the herpes test. I did do it last year and
                  now this vet says it is really not accurate. They can have watery eyes
                  nose for 9-21 days. It is clear. Boomers fluid turned yellow and we
                  have her on Amox/Clav antibiotics. I got them friday and now she is
                  eating better and looking better. Still sneezes but not as bad. She
                  looked at Boomers records and she is always sick in Jan. the last 5
                  or yrs. Last year they put her on antibiotics then cleaned her teeth
                  thinking it was part of it as she was rubbing her face. They get this
                  from stress or cold or whatever. Her Mom did too so I dont know. I am
                  not using any nose drops. I used a warm clothe to wash off her little
                  nose and all. So far no one else is sick. Cinnamon sneezed three times
                  but she looks ok. Jaguar has FIV so I am trying to keep him away from
                  her food.
                  I wonder if the blood is irritation from the nose I think you said
                  she was on a blood thinner? Could darn be. I thought Boomers was going
                  to bleed. She has been sick since before Christmas. It is so darn cold
                  here I try to keep the rooms even temp. Thank goodness our vet called
                  in a prescription. Boomer doesn't need to be out in 8 degree weather.

                  I hope your girl is better. I hope Boomer gets better she is 15. She
                  is not a heart cat. He Mom had HCM but her ultra sound said she was
                  ok. Hope so.I would not do the test. Your cardiologist is right.
                  Unless it is life and death.
                  I had a couple kitties with this who had teeth cleaned but my vet is
                  very good at what they give them and only long enough to get done.

                  Janie
                • dshale1
                  Thanks. Pye s runny eye and nasal discharge also started over Christmas. She was on amoxicillin for a week but I was still seeing some whitish discharge so
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 11, 2010
                    Thanks. Pye's runny eye and nasal discharge also started over Christmas. She was on amoxicillin for a week but I was still seeing some whitish discharge so presumed the infection was still there, so they switched to Baytril. She's been on that five days and now what I see is clear mucus tinged with blood. The eye is watering a little less I think--seems to stay dry when she is sleeping but when she gets up and sneezes or snorts a few times to clear her nasal passages, the eye starts watering again. I don't think Baytril is the right antibiotic for a possible sinus infection, if that's what it is, so I intend to ask for Zithromax next.

                    Yes, Pye is on Plavix and so it seems more likely that the blood in her nose is because of that. Of course, I couldn't be sure without stopping the Plavix for a while and I think that would be risky. I know some other cats on this board have had some bleeding from Plavix--intestinal I believe but I think one or two people mentioned nosebleed. I know that when Pye's blood is drawn she is licking the area the rest of the day so it does take a while to stop bleeding. Sometimes I wonder--how do they know whether or not a cat's blood is getting too thin when the cat is on anticoagulants? We have also been giving Pye fish oil capsules, which is also an anticoagulant, and I have stopped those just in case it's causing too much anti-coagulation.

                    In a way this is really agonizing because since they can't do any diagnostics on her, what I am I supposed to do? Just let her get sicker and sicker and maybe die from whatever is wrong? I know that even with tumors, it may be possible to treat them with chemo in heart kitties, but right now I don't have any diagnosis.

                    Sorry, I am just venting here because I don't know what to do.
                    -Susan

                    --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, janie <sockster@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Dont waste your money on the herpes test. I did do it last year and
                    > now this vet says it is really not accurate. They can have watery eyes
                    > nose for 9-21 days. It is clear. Boomers fluid turned yellow and we
                    > have her on Amox/Clav antibiotics. I got them friday and now she is
                    > eating better and looking better. Still sneezes but not as bad. She
                    > looked at Boomers records and she is always sick in Jan. the last 5
                    > or yrs. Last year they put her on antibiotics then cleaned her teeth
                    > thinking it was part of it as she was rubbing her face. They get this
                    > from stress or cold or whatever. Her Mom did too so I dont know. I am
                    > not using any nose drops. I used a warm clothe to wash off her little
                    > nose and all. So far no one else is sick. Cinnamon sneezed three times
                    > but she looks ok. Jaguar has FIV so I am trying to keep him away from
                    > her food.
                    > I wonder if the blood is irritation from the nose I think you said
                    > she was on a blood thinner? Could darn be. I thought Boomers was going
                    > to bleed. She has been sick since before Christmas. It is so darn cold
                    > here I try to keep the rooms even temp. Thank goodness our vet called
                    > in a prescription. Boomer doesn't need to be out in 8 degree weather.
                    >
                    > I hope your girl is better. I hope Boomer gets better she is 15. She
                    > is not a heart cat. He Mom had HCM but her ultra sound said she was
                    > ok. Hope so.I would not do the test. Your cardiologist is right.
                    > Unless it is life and death.
                    > I had a couple kitties with this who had teeth cleaned but my vet is
                    > very good at what they give them and only long enough to get done.
                    >
                    > Janie
                    >
                  • janie
                    I would think they could take a blood test to check Pyes blood. She could be an anemic from loss of it. With people they check the thinner too, Boomer has has
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 12, 2010
                      I would think they could take a blood test to check Pyes blood. She
                      could be an anemic from loss of it. With people they check the thinner
                      too,
                      Boomer has has sneezes since before Christmas. So horrible like 13
                      times snorting and all. So now she is a lot better on the medicine 3
                      days. Her eyes are clear finally. It can last 21 days. I feel for you
                      s I was so scared with Boomer and then she starts getting better.
                      Maybe switch antibiotic. Janie
                    • dshale1
                      Thanks. Pye had a CBC two weeks ago, everything within normal limits. I don t think there is enough blood in the mucus to cause anemia--it s just a tiny glob
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 12, 2010
                        Thanks. Pye had a CBC two weeks ago, everything within normal limits. I don't think there is enough blood in the mucus to cause anemia--it's just a tiny glob in the corner of her nostril that I wipe off every day. She isn't sneezing sprays of blood or anything like that.
                        -Susan

                        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, janie <sockster@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I would think they could take a blood test to check Pyes blood. She
                        > could be an anemic from loss of it. With people they check the thinner
                        > too,
                        > Boomer has has sneezes since before Christmas. So horrible like 13
                        > times snorting and all. So now she is a lot better on the medicine 3
                        > days. Her eyes are clear finally. It can last 21 days. I feel for you
                        > s I was so scared with Boomer and then she starts getting better.
                        > Maybe switch antibiotic. Janie
                        >
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