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Re: [FH] Breeders Perspective

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  • Ann Hobson-Kelly
    Hi, I breed Devon Rex and Sphynx cats.  I scan all my cats annually and prior to breeding.  We discuss HCM continually on the Sphynx lists I am a member of,
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 30, 2009
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      Hi,

      I breed Devon Rex and Sphynx cats.  I scan all my cats annually and prior to breeding.  We discuss HCM continually on the Sphynx lists I am a member of, but rarely on the Rex list.

      HCM can and is found in every breed of cat, pedigree, moggie, outcross regardless.  It is also found in man and whilst genetic councelling is given - the families of sufferers are not told that they cannot have families.  Most older cats, dogs, and people will show some degree of cardiac failure - some sooner than others.

      Now, I'm not suggesting that breeders should continue to breed with cats affected at a young age, but if we neuter every cat in the line of a cat affected with late onset HCM we will run into BIG problems with reducing the gene pool. 

      With regard to the thickness of the left ventricle.  In UK a measurement of <5.5 is regarded as a healthy heart.  In general over here one would only worry if the figure was 5.5 and above.  Also, that if consecutive scans showed no deterioration, then the original measurement would also signify a healthy heart for that individual - even if that measurement was 6.0

      HCM is a dreadful disease and one the Sphynx community is well aware of and 'responsible' breeders scan and continue to scan.  We raise money for research to find a genetic marker and do anything we can to help.  However, there are always the BYB who can destroy everything a that responsible breeder has achieved by an irresponsible attitude to genetic health and vigour.
       Ann
      Nobilero Devon Rex, Sphynx and Irish Wolfhounds
      www.nobilero.co.uk




      ________________________________
      From: "MKGMT@..." <MKGMT@...>
      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 8:43:39 PM
      Subject: Re: [FH] Breeders Perspective

       
      Just got back from the vet. Jasmine had her echocardiogram and she does
      have HCM. The vet was amazed that my vet picked up the murmur. You could
      only hear it in one place and if you didn't put your stethoscope there you
      would miss it. He confirmed for me that my family vet is awesome.

      Anyway, Jazz has a slight case. The vet told me that the normal values
      for heart wall measurements were less than 4.8 cm. Jazz's measurements were
      4.9 and 5.4. He has recommended a small dose of atenolol daily and then to
      return next year for a repeat exam and echo. He said that he probably
      wouldn't treat an older cat with these measurements, but Jazz will only be 4
      next month so he wants to go ahead and start treatment. He said that it was
      up to me, but if it was his cat, he would treat her. That was good enough
      for me.

      Now off to contact the breeder. I don't believe that Jazz's parents are
      still breeding so that part is moot.

      Melinda

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • elfinmyst@aol.com
      Hi My foundation breeding boy had HCM, we collected him at 3 months old and he was diagnosed with a heart murmur at the vet check. I had him scanned and HCM
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 1, 2009
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        Hi

        My foundation breeding boy had HCM, we collected him at 3 months old and he
        was diagnosed with a heart murmur at the vet check. I had him scanned and
        HCM was diagnosed. I was unfortunate enough that my foundation girl had the
        same diagnosis three weeks later. The breeder was devastated and we kept
        both kittens.

        I neutered the HCM kitties and they're much loved pets. I bought another
        foundation girl a year later who was scanned twice under the UK FAB scheme
        for HCM and heart disorders. I would not breed from any girl who was not
        scanned and all my kittens are scanned, but then I only have one small hobby
        litter a year so it's easier for me.

        My kittens are scanned too and so far all have been negative. It's £200 for
        a scan, but well worth it. The certificate is available online with the
        cats name and pedigree. My cats have had samples taken and hope to find the
        genetic cause of HCM in their breed and then I would test each and every cat
        without exception if there were a test available.

        Lyn

        _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • tafoster4000
        Hi I do have a question, are we talking HCM developing in young cats? I have/had 2 cornish rex cats that had/have HCM. I lost my Domino at 18 1/2 to heart
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 1, 2009
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          Hi
          I do have a question, are we talking HCM developing in young cats? I have/had 2 cornish rex cats that had/have HCM. I lost my Domino at 18 1/2 to heart failure but we are pretty sure his HCM was secondary to hyperT. Now my 20 year old rex was diagnosed when he was 15 and is still hanging in there. In my case neither breeder is still breeding cornies. but if they were, should they have been notified about HCM in older cats?

          Taca and Angel Domino, Pyewacket and Moe

          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "gaileder" <greder@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi
          > I am a New Zealand breeder of siamese and orientals. I have just found out that some of the cats I breed have developed HCM so I have had to terminate my breeding activities.
          > I have a question:
          > How many of you with pedigree cats which have developed this problem have told the breeder of your cat.
          > I have come to realise how important this is because if the breeders are not told there is a problem they will keep using the same lines.
          >
        • dshale1
          When Pye was diagnosed with very mild HCM 2.5 years ago at age 9, we told the breeder (Pye is a British shorthair). She said she had only heard of one other
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 7, 2009
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            When Pye was diagnosed with very mild HCM 2.5 years ago at age 9, we told the breeder (Pye is a British shorthair). She said she had only heard of one other case of HCM in the breeding lines she is involved with and it wasn't one of her own cats. She did say she knew there had been a case of HCM in on Pye's mother's side. To her knowledge none of Pye's littermates have been diagnosed with HCM to date, and I've always wondered why Pye had it and not her brother because I thought males were more susceptible.

            It seems to me that when a breed doesn't tend to develop HCM until they are much older, as seems to be the case with British shorthairs, by the time they are diagnosed they have been long retired from breeding, but have already passed on their genes. I am not sure it has been demonstrated that when cats develop HCM later in life it is due to a genetic propensity--is that true?
            -Susan

            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "gaileder" <greder@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi
            > I am a New Zealand breeder of siamese and orientals. I have just found out that some of the cats I breed have developed HCM so I have had to terminate my breeding activities.
            > I have a question:
            > How many of you with pedigree cats which have developed this problem have told the breeder of your cat.
            > I have come to realise how important this is because if the breeders are not told there is a problem they will keep using the same lines.
            >
          • tootsiepop1421@aol.com
            In my case the Breeder has died and who knows where all her cats went. I m sure that another breeder got them, so who do you tell? [Non-text portions of this
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 8, 2009
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              In my case the Breeder has died and who knows where all her cats went.
              I'm sure that another breeder got them, so who do you tell?


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Cheryl
              Hi Susan, Every kitty born from an HCM parent has a 50% chance of inheriting the disease. Sex does not matter, although it is said that males typically
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 8, 2009
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                Hi Susan,
                Every kitty born from an HCM parent has a 50% chance of inheriting the
                disease. Sex does not matter, although it is said that males typically
                develop the disease faster than females. I know there are exceptions to
                this rule though. My Vizzy was diagnosed with RCM at age 10. He has a
                sister who died of HCM (sudden death - the owners were not aware she had it)
                at age 5. Their mother was not diagnosed with HCM until she was 10 years
                old, and a half-sister (same mother, different father, was diagnosed with
                mild HCM at 1.5 years). That is what makes HCM so challenging for breeders.
                Even for those who do screen for HCM, a normal screen does not guarantee
                that their cats do not have the disease. Unfortunately, a lot of breeders
                only do an echocardiogram once on their breeding cats, and then they think
                they are in the clear, which is not the case. I have been breeding
                Norwegian Forest Cats for 10 years now, and I do my best to scan my breeding
                cats every 1-2 years. I lived in Tucson, AZ for six years, and there were
                no cardiologists in the area. We just recently moved to Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
                I haven't checked to see if there are cardiologists locally, but I know the
                vet school in Ames has some very good ones.

                Cheryl

                -----Original Message-----
                From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of dshale1
                Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:12 AM
                To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [FH] Re: Breeders Perspective

                When Pye was diagnosed with very mild HCM 2.5 years ago at age 9, we told
                the breeder (Pye is a British shorthair). She said she had only heard of one
                other case of HCM in the breeding lines she is involved with and it wasn't
                one of her own cats. She did say she knew there had been a case of HCM in on
                Pye's mother's side. To her knowledge none of Pye's littermates have been
                diagnosed with HCM to date, and I've always wondered why Pye had it and not
                her brother because I thought males were more susceptible.

                It seems to me that when a breed doesn't tend to develop HCM until they are
                much older, as seems to be the case with British shorthairs, by the time
                they are diagnosed they have been long retired from breeding, but have
                already passed on their genes. I am not sure it has been demonstrated that
                when cats develop HCM later in life it is due to a genetic propensity--is
                that true?
                -Susan

                --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "gaileder" <greder@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi
                > I am a New Zealand breeder of siamese and orientals. I have just found out
                that some of the cats I breed have developed HCM so I have had to terminate
                my breeding activities.
                > I have a question:
                > How many of you with pedigree cats which have developed this problem have
                told the breeder of your cat.
                > I have come to realise how important this is because if the breeders are
                not told there is a problem they will keep using the same lines.
                >




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              • melaniejanie
                Hi all, I am a relatively new breeder (3 years) and while I have had no HCM so far, I would like to scan all my breeding cats. I am based in the UK and have
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 26 4:58 AM
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                  Hi all,
                  I am a relatively new breeder (3 years) and while I have had no HCM so far, I would like to scan all my breeding cats. I am based in the UK and have looked into the FAB Cats list of registered cardiologists who provide HCM scans. I've called a handful of them and all have quoted prices between £300 and £400 per cat (not to mention the travel costs to get there). I cannot afford to do this every year as I am only a small breeder and already I make a loss breeding as we feed good food, show a lot and do a lot of other health testing.

                  I am wondering if those of you based in the UK who have done proactive screening could provide details of the cardiologist used and the price you were charged? I really think that if scans were more affordable there would be a lot more breeders willing to check their cats regularly.

                  Thanks in advance
                  Mel



                  --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi
                  >
                  > My foundation breeding boy had HCM, we collected him at 3 months old and he
                  > was diagnosed with a heart murmur at the vet check. I had him scanned and
                  > HCM was diagnosed. I was unfortunate enough that my foundation girl had the
                  > same diagnosis three weeks later. The breeder was devastated and we kept
                  > both kittens.
                  >
                  > I neutered the HCM kitties and they're much loved pets. I bought another
                  > foundation girl a year later who was scanned twice under the UK FAB scheme
                  > for HCM and heart disorders. I would not breed from any girl who was not
                  > scanned and all my kittens are scanned, but then I only have one small hobby
                  > litter a year so it's easier for me.
                  >
                  > My kittens are scanned too and so far all have been negative. It's £200 for
                  > a scan, but well worth it. The certificate is available online with the
                  > cats name and pedigree. My cats have had samples taken and hope to find the
                  > genetic cause of HCM in their breed and then I would test each and every cat
                  > without exception if there were a test available.
                  >
                  > Lyn
                  >
                  > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • elfinmyst@aol.com
                  Hi That s very expensive. My cats are scanned at the University of Liverpool small animal hospital. There is a similar university up in scotland too and I
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 27 2:13 AM
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                    Hi

                    That's very expensive.

                    My cats are scanned at the University of Liverpool small animal hospital.
                    There is a similar university up in scotland too and I suspect they're
                    cheaper than a private cardiologist.

                    With a FAB scan, you need a cat with an identity chip and have them booked
                    in for a FAB scan. There's no appointment cost and it's just the scan and
                    comes to £200 per cat maximum. It takes about 20 minutes and you get a
                    certificate and your cats name goes on the HCM negative screened list at the FAB
                    site. You need a vet referal to the FAB scan.

                    Hope that helps.

                    :) Lyn

                    _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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