Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Breeders Perspective

Expand Messages
  • gaileder
    Hi I am a New Zealand breeder of siamese and orientals. I have just found out that some of the cats I breed have developed HCM so I have had to terminate my
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 29, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi
      I am a New Zealand breeder of siamese and orientals. I have just found out that some of the cats I breed have developed HCM so I have had to terminate my breeding activities.
      I have a question:
      How many of you with pedigree cats which have developed this problem have told the breeder of your cat.
      I have come to realise how important this is because if the breeders are not told there is a problem they will keep using the same lines.
    • kathryn m
      i own a pedigree cat (sphynx). i did let belle s breeder know about belle s HCM. she stopped breeding sphynx altogether after i told her, she felt that it was
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 29, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        i own a pedigree cat (sphynx). i did let belle's breeder know about belle's HCM. she stopped breeding sphynx altogether after i told her, she felt that it was too heartbreaking and too much of a risk to contiune. i actually debated over telling her for a minute because i didnt want her to feel responsible because i do not feel this way at all but i knew that she needed to know for her breeding program. i still keep in touch with her in fact to let her know how belle is doing (its been over 5 years and she is still doing very well) but she no longer breeds sphynx and maybe not at all. i belong to a fancier group and i have seen a few breeders flame other breeders over HCM and honestly that makes me sad because i really hope that the breeders would work together to fix the problem and finger pointing never resolves anything. i am not a breeder but have noticed that at least a few breeders are a little mean when HCM strikes a cattery. i would rather that they kept their fingers to themselves and helped the person/s that this happened to. i know their are bad breeders but i think that this happens to good breeders which i am sure is heartbreaking to them as well as the pet parents.
        >^..^<
        katy & belle


        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "gaileder" <greder@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi
        > I am a New Zealand breeder of siamese and orientals. I have just found out that some of the cats I breed have developed HCM so I have had to terminate my breeding activities.
        > I have a question:
        > How many of you with pedigree cats which have developed this problem have told the breeder of your cat.
        > I have come to realise how important this is because if the breeders are not told there is a problem they will keep using the same lines.
        >
      • Westgold
        Hi -- I bred cats for over 20 years, first Abyssinians, and then Scottish Folds. I started breeding Folds in 1990. A beautiful girl who I bred and kept died
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 29, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi -- I bred cats for over 20 years, first Abyssinians, and then Scottish Folds. I started breeding Folds in 1990. A beautiful girl who I bred and kept died in 1995 at age 18 months, and the necropsy said it was HCM. I had never even heard of it. They said at that time that it was a fluke in Folds. So I just carried on. A few years later someone called me and told me her cat died suddenly, and then another called to tell me their kitty was dx with HCM. I was just starting to do research on this when another cat I had bred 10 years earlier suddenly had a heart attack and dropped dead. That was the final straw for me, I stopped breeding immediately, that was 2003. I only had 4 girls during all those years I bred, and I used outside stud services. I do not know if my girls were carriers of HCM (none of them had a murmur, although I know a murmur is not necessary to have HCM). I don't know if it was from the males I used. But it didn't matter. I never wanted to pass this heartbreak to anyone else, so got all my girls fixed immediately. My girls are all in fine health, no signs of heart disease whatsoever, although my first Fold Punkin moved up to heaven with my help a couple summers ago at age almost-17. She became paralyzed with a bone&joint disorder, no sign of heart disease. Since I closed my cattery, two other people have told me their kitties dropped dead of HCM, both in the past few months. I am SO GLAD I stopped breeding when I did!

          You are absolutely right, Gail. Thank you for bringing this up. If any of your heart-kitties are pedigreed and have HCM, please tell the breeder asap. I wouldn't have known if the people who bought my kittens hadn't told me. I would still have considered that first one who died a fluke. I know a lot about HCM now, because a little Scottish Fold boy I bought 5 years ago from a completely different line also has it. Scottish Folds are now in the top 10 for HCM. It is such a shame. I want to start breeding again, but I have to find a different breed. I don't trust that any Scottish Fold lines are free of it anymore, so very sad.

          take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: gaileder
          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 3:56 PM
          Subject: [FH] Breeders Perspective



          Hi
          I am a New Zealand breeder of siamese and orientals. I have just found out that some of the cats I breed have developed HCM so I have had to terminate my breeding activities.
          I have a question:
          How many of you with pedigree cats which have developed this problem have told the breeder of your cat.
          I have come to realise how important this is because if the breeders are not told there is a problem they will keep using the same lines.





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Westgold
          Yes, Katy, many breeders still have their heads in the sand about HCM. And the longer it goes on like this, the more kittens will be born with it, and the
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 29, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Yes, Katy, many breeders still have their heads in the sand about HCM. And the longer it goes on like this, the more kittens will be born with it, and the more lines will be ruined. If, for example, the Scottish Fold breeders had gotten together and gotten all their cats tested when it first started appearing back in 1995 -- and removed ALL the cats who tested positive through echocardiogram -- then things would be so different now. Now it is 15 years later, and SO many breeders have passed it on to SO many cats, it may be impossible to stop now.

            The top two breeds for HCM have taken action to get the gene researched, and to get as many of their breeding cats echoed as possible -- the Ragdolls and Maine Coons. But there will always be some breeders who refuse to accept what is going on, and keep breeding with impunity. Some people just breed for the money, and don't really care about the health of their cats or the health of the breed in general.

            It's the same thing with some diseases, like ringworm for example. Breeders are ashamed (horrified!) to let anybody know that they have ringworm, even though it can be gotten from the garden soil, etc -- it's nobody's fault when a cattery gets it. So they pretend like nothing is wrong, and they take their cats to a show, and then everybody around them gets ringworm.

            Now ringworm won't kill, but HCM sure does. All breeders need to wake up and smell the coffee about HCM before it's too late and get their breeding cats tested by a cardiologist. If it isn't stopped now, soon there won't be any lines free of it. The fate of some breeds really does rest in the hands of some breeders right now.

            take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: kathryn m
            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:22 PM
            Subject: [FH] Re: Breeders Perspective



            i own a pedigree cat (sphynx). i did let belle's breeder know about belle's HCM. she stopped breeding sphynx altogether after i told her, she felt that it was too heartbreaking and too much of a risk to contiune. i actually debated over telling her for a minute because i didnt want her to feel responsible because i do not feel this way at all but i knew that she needed to know for her breeding program. i still keep in touch with her in fact to let her know how belle is doing (its been over 5 years and she is still doing very well) but she no longer breeds sphynx and maybe not at all. i belong to a fancier group and i have seen a few breeders flame other breeders over HCM and honestly that makes me sad because i really hope that the breeders would work together to fix the problem and finger pointing never resolves anything. i am not a breeder but have noticed that at least a few breeders are a little mean when HCM strikes a cattery. i would rather that they kept their fingers to themselves and helped the person/s that this happened to. i know their are bad breeders but i think that this happens to good breeders which i am sure is heartbreaking to them as well as the pet parents.
            >^..^<
            katy & belle


            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "gaileder" <greder@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi
            > I am a New Zealand breeder of siamese and orientals. I have just found out that some of the cats I breed have developed HCM so I have had to terminate my breeding activities.
            > I have a question:
            > How many of you with pedigree cats which have developed this problem have told the breeder of your cat.
            > I have come to realise how important this is because if the breeders are not told there is a problem they will keep using the same lines.
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • MKGMT@aol.com
            I have a 4 y/o ragdoll, Jazzie, who is going in for an echocardiogram tomorrow because our vet has heard a heart murmur and suspects HCM. This vet has been
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 29, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              I have a 4 y/o ragdoll, Jazzie, who is going in for an echocardiogram
              tomorrow because our vet has heard a heart murmur and suspects HCM. This vet
              has been our vet for the past 3 years and had not heard a murmur on
              previous physicals. It is a Level 1-2 murmur. I so hope that she is mistaken,
              but I am afraid that she is not. I have e-mailed my breeder and at first she
              was upset, but finally thanked me for contacting her and wanted me to let
              her know when I find out more. She told me that she has had 2 cats from
              her lines with HCM. She has been breeding for 17 years, I think.

              Thanks, Melinda



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • JudithG
              I told my angel Russian Blue s breeder as soon as her heart murmur was found. I don t remember if she had decided to stop breeding before that or waited until
              Message 6 of 21 , Nov 30, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                I told my angel Russian Blue's breeder as soon as her heart murmur was found. I don't remember if she had decided to stop breeding before that or waited until later when she started to have problems selling her cats. She had stopped breeding by the time Nessi died about 2 years later. By then, other cats were dying.

                After Nessi died, she posted to the Russian Blue Breeders group and the breeder of her stud cat admitted to HCM being in the line. Then other European breeders started to come forward with the same information. There is now a research project in the Netherlands looking for the genetic cause of HCM in Russian Blues.

                HCM has been found in the European Russian Blues, including the ones from Russia (especially those).

                My surviving Russian Blue has the same father's line as Nessi but not the same mother's. So far, age 6 1/2, she's fine. The breeder of the Nessi's mother's line has never admitted to HCM and is also no longer breeding.

                Judith
              • Westgold
                Good for you! We need to get all the cats carrying HCM OUT of the breeding programs asap. Otherwise some breeds will be irreparably damaged. ... From:
                Message 7 of 21 , Nov 30, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Good for you! We need to get all the cats carrying HCM OUT of the breeding programs asap. Otherwise some breeds will be irreparably damaged.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: JudithG
                  To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 1:54 PM
                  Subject: [FH] Re: Breeders Perspective



                  I told my angel Russian Blue's breeder as soon as her heart murmur was found. I don't remember if she had decided to stop breeding before that or waited until later when she started to have problems selling her cats. She had stopped breeding by the time Nessi died about 2 years later. By then, other cats were dying.

                  After Nessi died, she posted to the Russian Blue Breeders group and the breeder of her stud cat admitted to HCM being in the line. Then other European breeders started to come forward with the same information. There is now a research project in the Netherlands looking for the genetic cause of HCM in Russian Blues.

                  HCM has been found in the European Russian Blues, including the ones from Russia (especially those).

                  My surviving Russian Blue has the same father's line as Nessi but not the same mother's. So far, age 6 1/2, she's fine. The breeder of the Nessi's mother's line has never admitted to HCM and is also no longer breeding.

                  Judith





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • gaileder
                  Thank you all for your feed back on this. Sadly I was notified yesterday of the death of another boy at the age of 3. His mother has been scanned twice and
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 30, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thank you all for your feed back on this.
                    Sadly I was notified yesterday of the death of another boy at the age of 3. His mother has been scanned twice and been clear both times so I am glad I had all the girls spayed when I found out about this condition. I am relieved now that I have only been breeding for a short time (only 40 kittens and 4 of them live with me).
                    While some breeders have been supportive (several of them have had a similar experience) others have just denied having the problem even when owners of cats with their prefix have told me of deaths. One (a lawyer) would not accept that a cat had HCM unless a post mortem proved it. To date I have not made a public statement outside the NZ Feline Forum because I know if I do the buyers of Siamese and Orientals will look at other breeds (which may also have the problem of course but they dont know that)and I want the breeding community to work with me on this not to make them my enemies.
                  • Westgold
                    Yes, you do have to be careful. Education is the key. When I bought my last boy and he turned out to have HCM, his breeders refused to get the parents
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 30, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Yes, you do have to be careful. Education is the key. When I bought my last boy and he turned out to have HCM, his breeders refused to get the parents tested, they just fixed them, which was good enough for me. The cardiologist told me that one of the parents had to have it for him to have it, but the breeders wouldn't discuss it. They are very good people and have probably woken up since then, but it's very difficult to deal with people who refuse to acknowledge that there may be some problem in their cattery. Many people's livelihood and pride depend on their catteries, if word got out that their cats were sick, that would all be threatened. So education is the key for sure --
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: gaileder
                      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 2:15 PM
                      Subject: [FH] Breeders Perspective



                      Thank you all for your feed back on this.
                      Sadly I was notified yesterday of the death of another boy at the age of 3. His mother has been scanned twice and been clear both times so I am glad I had all the girls spayed when I found out about this condition. I am relieved now that I have only been breeding for a short time (only 40 kittens and 4 of them live with me).
                      While some breeders have been supportive (several of them have had a similar experience) others have just denied having the problem even when owners of cats with their prefix have told me of deaths. One (a lawyer) would not accept that a cat had HCM unless a post mortem proved it. To date I have not made a public statement outside the NZ Feline Forum because I know if I do the buyers of Siamese and Orientals will look at other breeds (which may also have the problem of course but they dont know that)and I want the breeding community to work with me on this not to make them my enemies.





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Monika Delle
                      I ve only had one registered kitty, a wonderful Siamese guy whom I lost at age 10 to diabetes. I don t know if that was genetic or not, but actually my point
                      Message 10 of 21 , Nov 30, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I've only had one registered kitty, a wonderful Siamese guy whom I lost
                        at age 10 to diabetes. I don't know if that was genetic or not, but
                        actually my point is that it's gratifying that many breeders are taking
                        responsibility when diseases are found in their bloodlines, and holding
                        OTHERS accountable as well. THANK YOU.

                        My mom and I occasionally go to cat shows and while we've run across
                        some uh, "quirky" breeders, by and large you're all a delight.

                        Monika

                        JudithG wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > I told my angel Russian Blue's breeder as soon as her heart murmur was
                        > found. I don't remember if she had decided to stop breeding before
                        > that or waited until later when she started to have problems selling
                        > her cats. She had stopped breeding by the time Nessi died about 2
                        > years later. By then, other cats were dying.
                        >
                        > After Nessi died, she posted to the Russian Blue Breeders group and
                        > the breeder of her stud cat admitted to HCM being in the line. Then
                        > other European breeders started to come forward with the same
                        > information. There is now a research project in the Netherlands
                        > looking for the genetic cause of HCM in Russian Blues.
                        >
                        > HCM has been found in the European Russian Blues, including the ones
                        > from Russia (especially those).
                        >
                        > My surviving Russian Blue has the same father's line as Nessi but not
                        > the same mother's. So far, age 6 1/2, she's fine. The breeder of the
                        > Nessi's mother's line has never admitted to HCM and is also no longer
                        > breeding.
                        >
                        > Judith
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • MKGMT@aol.com
                        Just got back from the vet. Jasmine had her echocardiogram and she does have HCM. The vet was amazed that my vet picked up the murmur. You could only hear
                        Message 11 of 21 , Nov 30, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Just got back from the vet. Jasmine had her echocardiogram and she does
                          have HCM. The vet was amazed that my vet picked up the murmur. You could
                          only hear it in one place and if you didn't put your stethoscope there you
                          would miss it. He confirmed for me that my family vet is awesome.

                          Anyway, Jazz has a slight case. The vet told me that the normal values
                          for heart wall measurements were less than 4.8 cm. Jazz's measurements were
                          4.9 and 5.4. He has recommended a small dose of atenolol daily and then to
                          return next year for a repeat exam and echo. He said that he probably
                          wouldn't treat an older cat with these measurements, but Jazz will only be 4
                          next month so he wants to go ahead and start treatment. He said that it was
                          up to me, but if it was his cat, he would treat her. That was good enough
                          for me.

                          Now off to contact the breeder. I don't believe that Jazz's parents are
                          still breeding so that part is moot.

                          Melinda


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • elegantzebra
                          Hi, Do any of the posters in this topic mind if I post this discussion to another cat breed group that needs to learn and prevent heart disease in their breed?
                          Message 12 of 21 , Nov 30, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi,
                            Do any of the posters in this topic mind if I post this discussion to another cat breed group that needs to learn and prevent heart disease in their breed?
                            Thanks,
                            Faye

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Westgold
                            please feel free to cross post my messages anywhere. Education is the key to preventing this problem from getting any worse! ... From: elegantzebra To:
                            Message 13 of 21 , Nov 30, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              please feel free to cross post my messages anywhere. Education is the key to preventing this problem from getting any worse!
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: elegantzebra
                              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 4:23 PM
                              Subject: [FH] Re:Breeders Perspective



                              Hi,
                              Do any of the posters in this topic mind if I post this discussion to another cat breed group that needs to learn and prevent heart disease in their breed?
                              Thanks,
                              Faye

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Ann Hobson-Kelly
                              Hi, I breed Devon Rex and Sphynx cats.  I scan all my cats annually and prior to breeding.  We discuss HCM continually on the Sphynx lists I am a member of,
                              Message 14 of 21 , Nov 30, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi,

                                I breed Devon Rex and Sphynx cats.  I scan all my cats annually and prior to breeding.  We discuss HCM continually on the Sphynx lists I am a member of, but rarely on the Rex list.

                                HCM can and is found in every breed of cat, pedigree, moggie, outcross regardless.  It is also found in man and whilst genetic councelling is given - the families of sufferers are not told that they cannot have families.  Most older cats, dogs, and people will show some degree of cardiac failure - some sooner than others.

                                Now, I'm not suggesting that breeders should continue to breed with cats affected at a young age, but if we neuter every cat in the line of a cat affected with late onset HCM we will run into BIG problems with reducing the gene pool. 

                                With regard to the thickness of the left ventricle.  In UK a measurement of <5.5 is regarded as a healthy heart.  In general over here one would only worry if the figure was 5.5 and above.  Also, that if consecutive scans showed no deterioration, then the original measurement would also signify a healthy heart for that individual - even if that measurement was 6.0

                                HCM is a dreadful disease and one the Sphynx community is well aware of and 'responsible' breeders scan and continue to scan.  We raise money for research to find a genetic marker and do anything we can to help.  However, there are always the BYB who can destroy everything a that responsible breeder has achieved by an irresponsible attitude to genetic health and vigour.
                                 Ann
                                Nobilero Devon Rex, Sphynx and Irish Wolfhounds
                                www.nobilero.co.uk




                                ________________________________
                                From: "MKGMT@..." <MKGMT@...>
                                To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 8:43:39 PM
                                Subject: Re: [FH] Breeders Perspective

                                 
                                Just got back from the vet. Jasmine had her echocardiogram and she does
                                have HCM. The vet was amazed that my vet picked up the murmur. You could
                                only hear it in one place and if you didn't put your stethoscope there you
                                would miss it. He confirmed for me that my family vet is awesome.

                                Anyway, Jazz has a slight case. The vet told me that the normal values
                                for heart wall measurements were less than 4.8 cm. Jazz's measurements were
                                4.9 and 5.4. He has recommended a small dose of atenolol daily and then to
                                return next year for a repeat exam and echo. He said that he probably
                                wouldn't treat an older cat with these measurements, but Jazz will only be 4
                                next month so he wants to go ahead and start treatment. He said that it was
                                up to me, but if it was his cat, he would treat her. That was good enough
                                for me.

                                Now off to contact the breeder. I don't believe that Jazz's parents are
                                still breeding so that part is moot.

                                Melinda

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • elfinmyst@aol.com
                                Hi My foundation breeding boy had HCM, we collected him at 3 months old and he was diagnosed with a heart murmur at the vet check. I had him scanned and HCM
                                Message 15 of 21 , Dec 1, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi

                                  My foundation breeding boy had HCM, we collected him at 3 months old and he
                                  was diagnosed with a heart murmur at the vet check. I had him scanned and
                                  HCM was diagnosed. I was unfortunate enough that my foundation girl had the
                                  same diagnosis three weeks later. The breeder was devastated and we kept
                                  both kittens.

                                  I neutered the HCM kitties and they're much loved pets. I bought another
                                  foundation girl a year later who was scanned twice under the UK FAB scheme
                                  for HCM and heart disorders. I would not breed from any girl who was not
                                  scanned and all my kittens are scanned, but then I only have one small hobby
                                  litter a year so it's easier for me.

                                  My kittens are scanned too and so far all have been negative. It's £200 for
                                  a scan, but well worth it. The certificate is available online with the
                                  cats name and pedigree. My cats have had samples taken and hope to find the
                                  genetic cause of HCM in their breed and then I would test each and every cat
                                  without exception if there were a test available.

                                  Lyn

                                  _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • tafoster4000
                                  Hi I do have a question, are we talking HCM developing in young cats? I have/had 2 cornish rex cats that had/have HCM. I lost my Domino at 18 1/2 to heart
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Dec 1, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi
                                    I do have a question, are we talking HCM developing in young cats? I have/had 2 cornish rex cats that had/have HCM. I lost my Domino at 18 1/2 to heart failure but we are pretty sure his HCM was secondary to hyperT. Now my 20 year old rex was diagnosed when he was 15 and is still hanging in there. In my case neither breeder is still breeding cornies. but if they were, should they have been notified about HCM in older cats?

                                    Taca and Angel Domino, Pyewacket and Moe

                                    --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "gaileder" <greder@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hi
                                    > I am a New Zealand breeder of siamese and orientals. I have just found out that some of the cats I breed have developed HCM so I have had to terminate my breeding activities.
                                    > I have a question:
                                    > How many of you with pedigree cats which have developed this problem have told the breeder of your cat.
                                    > I have come to realise how important this is because if the breeders are not told there is a problem they will keep using the same lines.
                                    >
                                  • dshale1
                                    When Pye was diagnosed with very mild HCM 2.5 years ago at age 9, we told the breeder (Pye is a British shorthair). She said she had only heard of one other
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Dec 7, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      When Pye was diagnosed with very mild HCM 2.5 years ago at age 9, we told the breeder (Pye is a British shorthair). She said she had only heard of one other case of HCM in the breeding lines she is involved with and it wasn't one of her own cats. She did say she knew there had been a case of HCM in on Pye's mother's side. To her knowledge none of Pye's littermates have been diagnosed with HCM to date, and I've always wondered why Pye had it and not her brother because I thought males were more susceptible.

                                      It seems to me that when a breed doesn't tend to develop HCM until they are much older, as seems to be the case with British shorthairs, by the time they are diagnosed they have been long retired from breeding, but have already passed on their genes. I am not sure it has been demonstrated that when cats develop HCM later in life it is due to a genetic propensity--is that true?
                                      -Susan

                                      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "gaileder" <greder@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi
                                      > I am a New Zealand breeder of siamese and orientals. I have just found out that some of the cats I breed have developed HCM so I have had to terminate my breeding activities.
                                      > I have a question:
                                      > How many of you with pedigree cats which have developed this problem have told the breeder of your cat.
                                      > I have come to realise how important this is because if the breeders are not told there is a problem they will keep using the same lines.
                                      >
                                    • tootsiepop1421@aol.com
                                      In my case the Breeder has died and who knows where all her cats went. I m sure that another breeder got them, so who do you tell? [Non-text portions of this
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Dec 8, 2009
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        In my case the Breeder has died and who knows where all her cats went.
                                        I'm sure that another breeder got them, so who do you tell?


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Cheryl
                                        Hi Susan, Every kitty born from an HCM parent has a 50% chance of inheriting the disease. Sex does not matter, although it is said that males typically
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Dec 8, 2009
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi Susan,
                                          Every kitty born from an HCM parent has a 50% chance of inheriting the
                                          disease. Sex does not matter, although it is said that males typically
                                          develop the disease faster than females. I know there are exceptions to
                                          this rule though. My Vizzy was diagnosed with RCM at age 10. He has a
                                          sister who died of HCM (sudden death - the owners were not aware she had it)
                                          at age 5. Their mother was not diagnosed with HCM until she was 10 years
                                          old, and a half-sister (same mother, different father, was diagnosed with
                                          mild HCM at 1.5 years). That is what makes HCM so challenging for breeders.
                                          Even for those who do screen for HCM, a normal screen does not guarantee
                                          that their cats do not have the disease. Unfortunately, a lot of breeders
                                          only do an echocardiogram once on their breeding cats, and then they think
                                          they are in the clear, which is not the case. I have been breeding
                                          Norwegian Forest Cats for 10 years now, and I do my best to scan my breeding
                                          cats every 1-2 years. I lived in Tucson, AZ for six years, and there were
                                          no cardiologists in the area. We just recently moved to Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
                                          I haven't checked to see if there are cardiologists locally, but I know the
                                          vet school in Ames has some very good ones.

                                          Cheryl

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On
                                          Behalf Of dshale1
                                          Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:12 AM
                                          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [FH] Re: Breeders Perspective

                                          When Pye was diagnosed with very mild HCM 2.5 years ago at age 9, we told
                                          the breeder (Pye is a British shorthair). She said she had only heard of one
                                          other case of HCM in the breeding lines she is involved with and it wasn't
                                          one of her own cats. She did say she knew there had been a case of HCM in on
                                          Pye's mother's side. To her knowledge none of Pye's littermates have been
                                          diagnosed with HCM to date, and I've always wondered why Pye had it and not
                                          her brother because I thought males were more susceptible.

                                          It seems to me that when a breed doesn't tend to develop HCM until they are
                                          much older, as seems to be the case with British shorthairs, by the time
                                          they are diagnosed they have been long retired from breeding, but have
                                          already passed on their genes. I am not sure it has been demonstrated that
                                          when cats develop HCM later in life it is due to a genetic propensity--is
                                          that true?
                                          -Susan

                                          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "gaileder" <greder@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Hi
                                          > I am a New Zealand breeder of siamese and orientals. I have just found out
                                          that some of the cats I breed have developed HCM so I have had to terminate
                                          my breeding activities.
                                          > I have a question:
                                          > How many of you with pedigree cats which have developed this problem have
                                          told the breeder of your cat.
                                          > I have come to realise how important this is because if the breeders are
                                          not told there is a problem they will keep using the same lines.
                                          >




                                          ------------------------------------

                                          Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                                          will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                                          feline-heart@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links




                                          No virus found in this incoming message.
                                          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                          Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.96/2548 - Release Date: 12/07/09
                                          13:34:00
                                        • melaniejanie
                                          Hi all, I am a relatively new breeder (3 years) and while I have had no HCM so far, I would like to scan all my breeding cats. I am based in the UK and have
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Aug 26, 2010
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi all,
                                            I am a relatively new breeder (3 years) and while I have had no HCM so far, I would like to scan all my breeding cats. I am based in the UK and have looked into the FAB Cats list of registered cardiologists who provide HCM scans. I've called a handful of them and all have quoted prices between £300 and £400 per cat (not to mention the travel costs to get there). I cannot afford to do this every year as I am only a small breeder and already I make a loss breeding as we feed good food, show a lot and do a lot of other health testing.

                                            I am wondering if those of you based in the UK who have done proactive screening could provide details of the cardiologist used and the price you were charged? I really think that if scans were more affordable there would be a lot more breeders willing to check their cats regularly.

                                            Thanks in advance
                                            Mel



                                            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@... wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Hi
                                            >
                                            > My foundation breeding boy had HCM, we collected him at 3 months old and he
                                            > was diagnosed with a heart murmur at the vet check. I had him scanned and
                                            > HCM was diagnosed. I was unfortunate enough that my foundation girl had the
                                            > same diagnosis three weeks later. The breeder was devastated and we kept
                                            > both kittens.
                                            >
                                            > I neutered the HCM kitties and they're much loved pets. I bought another
                                            > foundation girl a year later who was scanned twice under the UK FAB scheme
                                            > for HCM and heart disorders. I would not breed from any girl who was not
                                            > scanned and all my kittens are scanned, but then I only have one small hobby
                                            > litter a year so it's easier for me.
                                            >
                                            > My kittens are scanned too and so far all have been negative. It's £200 for
                                            > a scan, but well worth it. The certificate is available online with the
                                            > cats name and pedigree. My cats have had samples taken and hope to find the
                                            > genetic cause of HCM in their breed and then I would test each and every cat
                                            > without exception if there were a test available.
                                            >
                                            > Lyn
                                            >
                                            > _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                          • elfinmyst@aol.com
                                            Hi That s very expensive. My cats are scanned at the University of Liverpool small animal hospital. There is a similar university up in scotland too and I
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Aug 27, 2010
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hi

                                              That's very expensive.

                                              My cats are scanned at the University of Liverpool small animal hospital.
                                              There is a similar university up in scotland too and I suspect they're
                                              cheaper than a private cardiologist.

                                              With a FAB scan, you need a cat with an identity chip and have them booked
                                              in for a FAB scan. There's no appointment cost and it's just the scan and
                                              comes to £200 per cat maximum. It takes about 20 minutes and you get a
                                              certificate and your cats name goes on the HCM negative screened list at the FAB
                                              site. You need a vet referal to the FAB scan.

                                              Hope that helps.

                                              :) Lyn

                                              _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.