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Hypertensive medication

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  • vandalin1@home.com
    I need some advice before I speak to the vet tomorrow. Munchie, who is hyper-T and mild CRF, is now, on the last two vet visits, exhibiting a heart murmur and
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 5, 2001
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      I need some advice before I speak to the vet tomorrow. Munchie, who
      is hyper-T and mild CRF, is now, on the last two vet visits,
      exhibiting a heart murmur and rapid heart rate. Her BP has averaged
      between 172 and 179. The vet does not believe in meds for BP until it
      reaches 200. And he also does not think that cats do well on heart
      meds. I left the vet a message telling him that I wanted to put
      Munchie on medication as a precautionary measure. The vet called back
      this evening, leaving a message for me to let his office know which
      pharmacy I use. He sounded rather annoyed. We have not discussed
      which medication would be best. Now, I am wondering if it is a
      mistake to put her on meds without an echocardiogram or an ultrasound
      first. Is it dangerous or is it OK to lower the BP and then have the
      tests run? Any advice would be appreciated.

      Anne V.
      Warner Robins, GA
    • Bob&Anne
      Victoria, Yes, Munchie is on Tapazole and her T4 last week was at 2.2. I would like to keep it a little higher to help her kidneys, but a minor adjustment in
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 6, 2001
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        Victoria,

        Yes, Munchie is on Tapazole and her T4 last week was at 2.2. I would like to keep it a little higher to help her kidneys, but a minor adjustment in the Tapazole cause major changes in the T4. I was thinking of starting her on Norvasc and schedule an ultrasound. Is this bad idea? Are we talking about three different things - high BP (179), murmur, and rapid heart rate - or is this all one that can be treated with one medication?

        Anne V
        Warner Robins, GA
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: VHess2000@...
        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 12:52 PM
        Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Hypertensive medication


        My first recommendation, would be to get a new vet. Has Munchie's
        Hyperthyroidism been treated, because that's whats most likely causing the
        heart damage, especially in light of his rapid heart beat? I'd definitely get
        an ultrasound so you can be sure what type and the degree of heart disease
        you are treating. Frankly, I'm at a loss to understand why he thinks cats
        don't do well on heart meds, unless he's strictly a holistic vet. It's true
        that some don't and you have to spend some time tinkering with the type and
        dosage, but I can tell you that my roommate has cardiomyopathy as well, which
        also requires constant fine tuning and no one suggests that she go off all
        meds. You need a definitive diagnosis so that you can make do some research
        and then make an informed decision, regarding meds and supplements. Find
        someone who'll take the time to talk to you. (P.S. Make sure your cat takes
        50 mg of CoQ10 daily, in an oil base, which will help relieve some strain on
        the heart, regardless of the type of cardiomyopathy he has. Once he's on it,
        don't stop it, because sudden withdrawal can lead to heart failure).

        Victoria

        Victoria

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      • Bob&Anne
        Anyes, In addition to the high BP, Munchie also has a newly discovered heart murmur and a rapid heart rate. Does this change your opinion? Anne V Warner
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 6, 2001
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          Anyes,

          In addition to the high BP, Munchie also has a newly discovered heart murmur and a rapid heart rate. Does this change your opinion?

          Anne V
          Warner Robins, GA
          From: Anyes Moscrip
          Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 3:28 PM




          vandalin1@... wrote:

          > ..... The vet called back
          > this evening, leaving a message for me to let his office know which
          > pharmacy I use. He sounded rather annoyed. We have not discussed
          > which medication would be best. Now, I am wondering if it is a
          > mistake to put her on meds without an echocardiogram or an ultrasound
          > first. Is it dangerous or is it OK to lower the BP and then have the
          > tests run? Any advice would be appreciated.
          >
          > Anne V.
          > Warner Robins, GA

          > I see lots of high bp kitties get medication without having the ultrasound
          > done. I believe the ultrasound is necessary when there is a hint of any
          > other possible condition in addition to the high bp that might complicate
          > matters.

          Anyes and the girls



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        • Bob&Anne
          Thank you for your opinion, Anyes. I have not checked on the price for an ultrasound. Is it a very expensive procedure? And does anyone know what BP we should
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 6, 2001
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            Thank you for your opinion, Anyes. I have not checked on the price for an ultrasound. Is it a very expensive procedure? And does anyone know what BP we should be aiming for? I know 180 is high, but what is a good range and what is too low?

            Anne V
            Warner Robins, GA

            From: Anyes Moscrip
            Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 3:47 PM

            Bob&Anne wrote:

            > Anyes,
            >
            > In addition to the high BP, Munchie also has a newly discovered heart murmur and a rapid heart rate. Does this change your opinion?
            >
            > Anne V
            > Warner Robins, GA

            Yes, I think I would do the ultrasound to see what exactly is going on. Various heart medications do different things.
            If you cannot afford the ultrasound at this time, I would still start on bp medications as high bp will damage the kidneys further, and
            monitor the bp to adjust the dose.

            Anyes and the girls



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          • VHess2000@cs.com
            My first recommendation, would be to get a new vet. Has Munchie s Hyperthyroidism been treated, because that s whats most likely causing the heart damage,
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 6, 2001
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              My first recommendation, would be to get a new vet. Has Munchie's
              Hyperthyroidism been treated, because that's whats most likely causing the
              heart damage, especially in light of his rapid heart beat? I'd definitely get
              an ultrasound so you can be sure what type and the degree of heart disease
              you are treating. Frankly, I'm at a loss to understand why he thinks cats
              don't do well on heart meds, unless he's strictly a holistic vet. It's true
              that some don't and you have to spend some time tinkering with the type and
              dosage, but I can tell you that my roommate has cardiomyopathy as well, which
              also requires constant fine tuning and no one suggests that she go off all
              meds. You need a definitive diagnosis so that you can make do some research
              and then make an informed decision, regarding meds and supplements. Find
              someone who'll take the time to talk to you. (P.S. Make sure your cat takes
              50 mg of CoQ10 daily, in an oil base, which will help relieve some strain on
              the heart, regardless of the type of cardiomyopathy he has. Once he's on it,
              don't stop it, because sudden withdrawal can lead to heart failure).

              Victoria

              Victoria
            • Bob&Anne
              Thank you, Victoria. I will call Monday to see how soon I can schedule an echo. Then I will know that am putting Munchie on the right medication. Anne V Warner
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 6, 2001
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                Thank you, Victoria. I will call Monday to see how soon I can schedule an echo. Then I will know that am putting Munchie on the right medication.

                Anne V
                Warner Robins, GA
                From: VHess2000@...
                Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 6:54 PM

                As Munchie also has a murmur in addition to elevated BP, an echo is the best
                way to go. Can this be done without sedation?

                Victoria

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              • Bob&Anne
                Victoria, Is an echo done without sedation? Anne V Warner Robins, GA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 6, 2001
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                  Victoria,

                  Is an echo done without sedation?

                  Anne V
                  Warner Robins, GA



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Bob&Anne
                  She is a little fidgety. Is it OK to give Rescue Remedy, or can that skew the results? Anne V Warner Robins, GA From: VHess2000@cs.com Sent: Saturday, October
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 6, 2001
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                    She is a little fidgety. Is it OK to give Rescue Remedy, or can that skew the results?

                    Anne V
                    Warner Robins, GA
                    From: VHess2000@...
                    Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 7:04 PM

                    Yes, unless your cat is very hyperactive

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                  • Anyes Moscrip
                    ... Anyes and the girls
                    Message 9 of 14 , Oct 6, 2001
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                      vandalin1@... wrote:

                      > ..... The vet called back
                      > this evening, leaving a message for me to let his office know which
                      > pharmacy I use. He sounded rather annoyed. We have not discussed
                      > which medication would be best. Now, I am wondering if it is a
                      > mistake to put her on meds without an echocardiogram or an ultrasound
                      > first. Is it dangerous or is it OK to lower the BP and then have the
                      > tests run? Any advice would be appreciated.
                      >
                      > Anne V.
                      > Warner Robins, GA

                      > I see lots of high bp kitties get medication without having the ultrasound
                      > done. I believe the ultrasound is necessary when there is a hint of any
                      > other possible condition in addition to the high bp that might complicate
                      > matters.

                      Anyes and the girls
                    • Anyes Moscrip
                      ... Yes, I think I would do the ultrasound to see what exactly is going on. Various heart medications do different things. If you cannot afford the ultrasound
                      Message 10 of 14 , Oct 6, 2001
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                        Bob&Anne wrote:

                        > Anyes,
                        >
                        > In addition to the high BP, Munchie also has a newly discovered heart murmur and a rapid heart rate. Does this change your opinion?
                        >
                        > Anne V
                        > Warner Robins, GA

                        Yes, I think I would do the ultrasound to see what exactly is going on. Various heart medications do different things.
                        If you cannot afford the ultrasound at this time, I would still start on bp medications as high bp will damage the kidneys further, and
                        monitor the bp to adjust the dose.

                        Anyes and the girls
                      • VHess2000@cs.com
                        The murmur is probably symptomatic of heart damage caused by high thyroid. Even if the thyroid is under control, your cat may have sustained damage prior to
                        Message 11 of 14 , Oct 6, 2001
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                          The murmur is probably symptomatic of heart damage caused by high thyroid.
                          Even if the thyroid is under control, your cat may have sustained damage
                          prior to treatment. The fast heartrate can also mean that the thyroid is
                          still in a hyper state, or that because of heart damage, the heart is having
                          to beat faster to maintain adequate circulation. The purpose of heart
                          medication is to stop those automatic functions that the body does to
                          compensate for decreased heart function (faster rate, blood pressure), so as
                          to lessen the strain on the heart.

                          Victoria
                        • VHess2000@cs.com
                          As Munchie also has a murmur in addition to elevated BP, an echo is the best way to go. Victoria
                          Message 12 of 14 , Oct 6, 2001
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                            As Munchie also has a murmur in addition to elevated BP, an echo is the best
                            way to go.

                            Victoria
                          • VHess2000@cs.com
                            An ultrasound at Animal Medical Hospital, in Charlotte, cost me about $85 last year. It would have been closer to $200 at my regular vet, but she didn t have
                            Message 13 of 14 , Oct 6, 2001
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                              An ultrasound at Animal Medical Hospital, in Charlotte, cost me about $85
                              last year. It would have been closer to $200 at my regular vet, but she
                              didn't have the equipment herself, but had a doctor come in once a week to
                              perform the tests, hence the a more expensive procedure.

                              Victoria
                            • VHess2000@cs.com
                              Yes, unless your cat is very hyperactive
                              Message 14 of 14 , Oct 6, 2001
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                                Yes, unless your cat is very hyperactive
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